View Full Version : Double standards
changilass
26-Sep-12, 20:52
Just watching Mr & Mrs.
Tie break question:- what % of women think that the man should pay on the first date?
Was surprised to find that 62% of those polled thought they should.
Just wonder how many of those 62% would go mad to find a bloke was being paid more for doing the same job.
C'mon girls, you can't have your cake and eat it.
* I had guessed the answer to be about 20%
Is that show still being broadcast?
Depends on who asked who on the date!
If you are the asker you pay, if you are the one asked out you dont pay...or if being polite offer to split the bill!
It depends on whether you are from the old school........I would insist on paying on every date because thats what men from my era did. It's a Gentleman thing!!!
C3.
I'm always for complete equality and fairness in everything. I'd be okay paying for one date provided a second date was guaranteed and she would pay for it. Ideally though you'd go on a date with someone and pay for yourself.
There are actually many double-standards still in force that favour women from government benefits to the education system to the legal system to domestic violence and rape legislation and campaigning. Those aren't talked about though just the thing about men being paid more which really only still exists as an average and is disproportionately influence by older obscenely rich men which brings no benefit to me. In my age bracket for instance women are paid more.
billmoseley
27-Sep-12, 18:57
It depends on whether you are from the old school........I would insist on paying on every date because thats what men from my era did. It's a Gentleman thing!!!
C3. yes have to agree here. I'm from that school too. hey i still open doors for a lady and give up my seat on a bus which can be a bit awkward as I'm usually the driver
changilass
27-Sep-12, 19:14
It was the fact that it was what women 'expected'.
Nowt wrong with a good owld fashioned gent, but to expect it is just wrong.
billmoseley
27-Sep-12, 19:27
Why shouldn't a woman expect to be treated with respect. first date years of marriage should not change how much respect you get
changilass
27-Sep-12, 19:35
Respect is nothing to do with getting the man to pay.
You can go halves on a meal and both still show each other respect.
You cannot buy someones respect, you earn it.
There are actually many double-standards still in force that favour women from government benefits to the education system to the legal system to domestic violence and rape legislation and campaigning. Those aren't talked about though just the thing about men being paid more which really only still exists as an average and is disproportionately influence by older obscenely rich men which brings no benefit to me. In my age bracket for instance women are paid more.
So lets talk about them....
I am interested in what you are saying about doublt standards in benefits, education, domestic violence and rape ... how do you think that women are favoured? I know that many people feel it is unfair that men accused of rape are named but I am unsure about how women are favoured across the issues you mention
Oops, I was about to reply that it's been so long since I went on my first date, I would have no idea what would be expected nowadays.
I've now engaged reverse gear at high speed since Squidge & RecQuery have entered the "debate". ;)
Oh forgot to mention if the date is dire in the case of the asked..is it ok to escape by the emergency phonecall/backdoor/loo window/ambulance etc..
And not pay your share?
Depends how dire Dadie..
Boring? nope grit your teeth and bare it pay up and leave politely
Weird ? nope - smile sweetly nip to the loo and arrange for that emergency phone call pay your share and leave
Seriously weird like maybe your LIFE is in danger - Absolutely YES .... forget the bill and runnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnn
When I first dated, away back in the middle 1950's I did not earn a lot and my girlfriend at the time knew this, so every Saturday we would meet in a picture house in the Hawkhill of Dundee, this picture house had "chummy seats" i.e double seats with no armrests seperating us, I would meet her inside, and we would fumble to our hearts delight in the dark. but I always bought the ice cream inside and the chips when we came out, so I considered myself a gentleman, I would never ask her to pay for the ice cream and chips. I was in love. Eventually in 1958, while I was away for 10 months at sea, she bumped me by sending me a "dear john" letter. Tradition in the Merchant Navy at that time was to post her letter to me on the Crew noticeboard for all to see. But I still paid on first dates after that.
Any budding lawyers out there?
What's the correct thing to do in the eyes of the law?
If... on a date... one of the parties runs out on the bill, leaving the other party to stump up the full amount...
In the following pre-date scenarios (& assuming that it was verbal only)...
Agreed to split the bill
Agreed to one party paying for both
No agreement, nothing said at all
Would the out of pocket party have a good chance of winning the other parties share back if taken to the small claims court?
O've now engaged reverse gear at high speed since Squidge & RecQuery have entered the "debate". ;)
Not that you and Gollach have entered, I feel the same way.
yes have to agree here. I'm from that school too. hey i still open doors for a lady and give up my seat on a bus which can be a bit awkward as I'm usually the driver
:eek:[lol][lol]
or.. you could arrange before hand to yell Swordfish! and both leg it.
Legal disclaimer. I disassociate myself from the above post and in no way condone the purchase of goods or services and not paying for them.
As a Tory I believe in paying as much as possible for dinner.
So lets talk about them....
I am interested in what you are saying about doublt standards in benefits, education, domestic violence and rape ... how do you think that women are favoured? I know that many people feel it is unfair that men accused of rape are named but I am unsure about how women are favoured across the issues you mention
I wasn't going to, but okay I'll bite:
I'll preface this by saying that I'm in favour of fairness and equality in everything and that obviously these statements are averages and refer to things in general.
Education
A move away from competition in education towards cooperation. On average boys and men respond better to a competitive environment and girls and women in a cooperative one. The constant switching of topics throughout the day favours girls whereas boys are better at focusing on one topic for the day.
Girls/women performing better than boys/men at all tiers of education except the top 10%, if the reverse was true there would be an entire government, media and social programme by now.
The constant push and funding to get more women in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) subjects yet there's nothing in place to increase male participation in predominantly female subjects, there was even a push to lower the standards for women in these areas. In my personal experienc,e my university spent a lot of money on these things, money that would have been better spent elsewhere.
Constant negative reinforcement. Female teachers have lower expectations of boys than of girls and this belief fulfils itself throughout primary and secondary school. I'm sure we've all heard phrases like: 'Why can't you boys be like the girls they're so well behaved', 'Girls are smarter', 'Girls are more mature', 'Girls have more self-control', 'Girls are more responsible' etc. I remember them from my school days anyway.
Any man that actually wants to work in education at anything below high/secondary school level is treated with suspicion by both society and female colleagues.
There's a ton more post-graduate funding available for women and women's only scholarships and graduate programmes despite what's been said above
Domestic Violence
Every domestic violence campaign I've seen or heard of always portrays male-on-female violence and stops there. There's no mention of female-on-male, female-on-female or male-on-male violence and abuse.
There is little-to-no provision of support and services for male victims and attempts to establish these are treated with scorn by women's groups.
Women hitting men is displayed and perceived as being cute or a non-issue by society and the media.
In domestic violence situations the police assume the male partner is the aggressor.
If a man attempts to defend himself against female instigated violence or abuse he's treated as the aggressor by the authorities and society.
All this despite the fact women are more likely to be the perpetrators of violence and men more likely to be the victims. I realise that's a contentious statement with some so I'm actually going to provide a small subset of the numerous references I have for it despite what I've said below [1 (http://phys.org/news72113800.html), 2 (http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm), 3 (http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/how-feminists-corrupt-dv-research/), 4 (http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020), 5 (http://pubpages.unh.edu/%7Emas2/V71-Straus_Thirty-Years-Denying-Evidence-PV_10.pdf), 6 (http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/lawreview/downloads/304/kelly.pdf), 7 (http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/publications/mlintima-eng.php), 8 (http://pubpages.unh.edu/%7Emas2/ID41E2.pdf), 9 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359178911000942), 10 (http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_Report2010-a.pdf), 11 (http://pubpages.unh.edu/%7Emas2/CTS46X6.pdf), 12 (http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/publications/mlintima-eng.php), 13 (http://lab.drdondutton.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/DUTTON-2006-DOMESTIC-ABUSE-ASSESSMENT-IN-CHILD-CUSTODY-DISPUTES.pdf), 14 (http://www.nij.gov/journals/261/who-perpetrates.htm)]
Rape
Well what you've said already the fact that accuser is not known but the accused is. The identity should only be revealed if a conviction is obtained and if there is no grounds for appeal. I actually think this should be the case in all court and police proceedings.
The fact that the protections of the accused and the very foundations of the legal system are being corroded because heaven forbid the accuser should have to provide more proof beyond a story.
In the developing/third world by the UN and media much is made of rape against women but nothing against rebel and insurgent forces raping boys and men.
Even if it's a false accusation of rape the life of the man is still ruined and he is treated with suspicion by many.
Little to no prosecution happens to false accusers and in cases where it does happen the punishment is laughable. I'm of the opinion they should get the same punishment the accused would have if they had been telling the truth.
Lots of noise is made over the statement that rape is unreported, this despite what is classed as unreported mostly turned out to be false accusations that were dropped by the police at the early stages
The definition of rape itself is sexist in this country and many others. It makes heavy use of the words 'he' and 'his'. It defines rape as penetration by a penis. No mention of women forcing penetration or raping a man with an object.
In the few cases where the rape of a man or boy by a woman makes it into the media it's treated as either a laughable light hearted news story or as a non-issue.
Every rape campaign I've seen or heard of always portrays male-on-female rape and stops there. There's no mention of female-on-male, female-on-female or male-on-male rape.
Men have had to pay child support for children conceived via rape.
I can provided studies and references for all of my point, though I'd prefer not having to spend time looking them up.
thanks that was interesting
secrets in symmetry
28-Sep-12, 23:48
Just watching Mr & Mrs.
Tie break question:- what % of women think that the man should pay on the first date?
Was surprised to find that 62% of those polled thought they should.
Just wonder how many of those 62% would go mad to find a bloke was being paid more for doing the same job.
C'mon girls, you can't have your cake and eat it.
* I had guessed the answer to be about 20%I think women should pay on the first date, especially the gobby and feisty types.
Where will we go? :cool:
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