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ducati
25-Sep-12, 11:04
The MP and the police.

As someone who has had many entertaining altarcations with varous jobsworths over the years, I don't see this as a big deal.

Two things that do interest me about the story though;

First of all the absolutely histerical reaction of some of the usual suspects on here. :eek:

And second and much more important, how on earth did the press get hold of the story in the first place? And how can the Telegraph print this morning the contents of the police notebook alleging to be a record of the conversation?

I fear that the Police have become an organisation with a political ax to grind and that needs nipping in the bud. There should be a public enquiry into how the (presumably) confidential information got to the press, followed by sackings and prosecutions.

Nothing else will restore confidence.

I know for myself, it will be a cold day in hell before I let a Police Officer write down anything I say!

Corrie 3
25-Sep-12, 11:23
I have complete faith in our Police and if they do have a political axe to grind against the Tory boy scum then even better!!!

C3.

Gronnuck
25-Sep-12, 12:01
The police have become increasingly politicised over the last two decades; a result of increased meddling by the grubbiement of the day. So it is little wonder they will fight fire with fire to make their point. In this case the alleged victim involved recorded details of the incident and passed that record on to their manager and their works representative (Police Federation). The same would happen if the alleged victim was a firefighter, medical technician or a TV camera operator. It's sad that in this day and age workers still have to protect themselves from the many idiots in society who think they have some God given right to be obnoxious.

changilass
25-Sep-12, 12:08
This has all been blown way out of proportion.

Whilst the guy shouldn't have said what he (allegedly) said, this should have been dealt with 'in house'. Him getting a rap on the knuckles and making an apology to those concerned.

I don't think the police have done themselves any favours, this guy is never gonna be prosecuted. All it does is make others think they can get away with calling the police whatever they want.

I think the police involved need to be disciplined, this should never have made the press.

What is said to police should remain confidential, unless it is needed within a court situation.

tonkatojo
25-Sep-12, 13:37
I disagree,the person should have been arrested as any other member of the public would have been. Just because of his position in government should not exempt him from the same rules that apply to the rest of society, what has he that any other infuriated person has not ?, drunks generally do not get away with half what he said at the weekends. This bloke even threatened the officers with his "power" to take it further, yeah that's right, the tory yob should get borstal or the equivalent to learn some manners that he obviously didn't at his posh school.

squidge
25-Sep-12, 14:51
I think that the politician concerned should be dealt with like you or I would be dealt with and if that means arrested then so be it. I dont like the idea that he can get away with it just because of who he is. Despite this I am heartily sick of the debate in the media about the word "pleb" - I even now know that it is a word from Roman times and I really dont care.

However, that said, I dont think swearing at a policeman should be an arrestable offence and it is absolutely shocking that the transcript from the police notebook has made it into the papers. That is actually more worrying than what the stupid man said in the first place.

Corrie 3
25-Sep-12, 16:04
And yet another Tory Boy disrespecting dead policewomen this time.......... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19713024

And the arrogant twit thinks his punishment was "Harsh"....How crass can you get?

C3.

ducati
25-Sep-12, 17:46
You would think that when their cosy relationship with the press was already under investigation, they would be a bit more careful.

ducati
25-Sep-12, 17:53
I think that the politician concerned should be dealt with like you or I would be dealt with and if that means arrested then so be it. I dont like the idea that he can get away with it just because of who he is. Despite this I am heartily sick of the debate in the media about the word "pleb" - I even now know that it is a word from Roman times and I really dont care.

However, that said, I dont think swearing at a policeman should be an arrestable offence and it is absolutely shocking that the transcript from the police notebook has made it into the papers. That is actually more worrying than what the stupid man said in the first place.

I don't think shouting at a policeperson is a crime is it? (If it is, boy am I in trouble). I mean, it isn't a police state is it?

Duncansby
25-Sep-12, 18:13
I don't think shouting at a policeperson is a crime is it? (If it is, boy am I in trouble). I mean, it isn't a police state is it?

I really don't understand this attitude. Why is it acceptible to shout (be aggressive) toward someone just because of their job? Am I really naive in thinking that eveyone, no matter what they do should be treated with respect? I did a lot of bar work when I was yonger and when one customer (it was a common occurance but I'd had enough that night) was rather rude (by rude I mean sexually suggestive not obnoxious) I asked if he'd talk to the girl on the checkout in Tesco's like that, he replied shocked off course not! So why'd he think he could talk to me like that? Of course he had no answer to that.

Gronnuck
25-Sep-12, 19:06
I dont think swearing at a policeman should be an arrestable offence.QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ducati;978416]I don't think shouting at a policeperson is a crime is it? (If it is, boy am I in trouble). I mean, it isn't a police state is it?

I'm astounded and disappointed that anyone should think it's OK to shout and be abusive to any member of our police service. Like any other public service worker they are there to do a job. Often in difficult and distressing circumstances. If you have a complaint there is a process you can use to seek redress. You can even lobby members of the area Police Board.
Thankfully there are a couple of Acts under which obnoxious miscreants can be arrested.

Rheghead
25-Sep-12, 19:12
As far as I see, this is what happened.

Tory gives the policeman an earful of verbals.
Policeman recognises that a public order offence may have taken place and won't accept such behavior off anyone.
Policeman is duty bound to write down contemporaneous notes of the incident as soon as possible in his notebook.
His notebook becomes the evidence for all legal actions against the tory.
Policeman complains to supervisor and seeks advice due to the sensitive nature and VIP status of offender.
Inspector says no.
Policeman is forced to seek advice from Police Federation due to the lack of support from supervisor.
Police Federation makes public statement to the press.
Tory forced to deny all knowledge
PM backs tory

changilass
25-Sep-12, 20:03
I wasn't suggesting he should get away with it because of who he is, whilst calling someone a pleb, may not be nice, I wouldn't say it was something to get arrested over.

Who he is shouldn't come into it, anymore than who he said it to.

I doubt someone would get arrested for calling me a pleb, why should someone having a uniform on make a difference.

Corrie 3
25-Sep-12, 20:06
I wasn't suggesting he should get away with it because of who he is, whilst calling someone a pleb, may not be nice, I wouldn't say it was something to get arrested over.

Who he is shouldn't come into it, anymore than who he said it to.

I doubt someone would get arrested for calling me a pleb, why should someone having a uniform on make a difference.
It was the swearing that was the offence Changi!!

C3.

changilass
25-Sep-12, 21:34
Same applies, swap out pleb for swear.

I have been swore at a number of times, no one got arrested and it certainly never made the media.

Think they all need to get on with what they are actually paid to do instead of time wasting and scoring points.

RecQuery
25-Sep-12, 22:05
The MP and the police.

As someone who has had many entertaining altarcations with varous jobsworths over the years, I don't see this as a big deal.

Two things that do interest me about the story though;

First of all the absolutely histerical reaction of some of the usual suspects on here. :eek:

And second and much more important, how on earth did the press get hold of the story in the first place? And how can the Telegraph print this morning the contents of the police notebook alleging to be a record of the conversation?

I fear that the Police have become an organisation with a political ax to grind and that needs nipping in the bud. There should be a public enquiry into how the (presumably) confidential information got to the press, followed by sackings and prosecutions.

Nothing else will restore confidence.

I know for myself, it will be a cold day in hell before I let a Police Officer write down anything I say!

I think the police are in negotiations right now for better pay and conditions with the government so it's an obvious bargaining chip. I thought the whole point of the Leveson Inquiry was that the police should no longer have The Sun on speed dial, I just hope they weren't paid for this one. Also notes on which the two officers likely collaborated are far from accurate in my view and should be treated as suspect.

Corrie 3
26-Sep-12, 12:33
And yet another Tory Boy Councillor opening his big mouth when he shouldn't !!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-19714221

C3.

tonkatojo
26-Sep-12, 14:39
As far as I see, this is what happened.

Tory gives the policeman an earful of verbals.
Policeman recognises that a public order offence may have taken place and won't accept such behavior off anyone.
Policeman is duty bound to write down contemporaneous notes of the incident as soon as possible in his notebook.
His notebook becomes the evidence for all legal actions against the tory.
Policeman complains to supervisor and seeks advice due to the sensitive nature and VIP status of offender.
Inspector says no.
Policeman is forced to seek advice from Police Federation due to the lack of support from supervisor.
Police Federation makes public statement to the press.
Tory forced to deny all knowledge
PM backs tory

Exactly, how many times has the pm had to back his pals since taking office and been proved wrong, where is his integrity.

tonkatojo
26-Sep-12, 14:42
I wasn't suggesting he should get away with it because of who he is, whilst calling someone a pleb, may not be nice, I wouldn't say it was something to get arrested over.

Who he is shouldn't come into it, anymore than who he said it to.

I doubt someone would get arrested for calling me a pleb, why should someone having a uniform on make a difference.


That's the point though, the police should be given respect as well as the rest of society including you, perhaps that is what is going wrong in our country no respect for nowt.

ducati
26-Sep-12, 15:11
That's the point though, the police should be given respect as well as the rest of society including you, perhaps that is what is going wrong in our country no respect for nowt.

No, the point is the police can not be trusted not to give confidential information to the press. (or that was my point anyway).

tonkatojo
26-Sep-12, 15:44
No, the point is the police can not be trusted not to give confidential information to the press. (or that was my point anyway).

What he said was in the public domain, he was standing at the gates to Downing St with loads of public/tourists on the other side.
As for leaked information the government cannot keep nowt secret just look at their leaks.

ducati
26-Sep-12, 18:10
What he said was in the public domain, he was standing at the gates to Downing St with loads of public/tourists on the other side.
As for leaked information the government cannot keep nowt secret just look at their leaks.

I already said I don't care what he said. The police cannot claim the moral high ground when they behave like this.

Corrie 3
26-Sep-12, 18:55
I already said I don't care what he said. The police cannot claim the moral high ground when they behave like this.
How do you know Duke that it wasn't one of the public onlookers who informed the press?

C3.

PantsMAN
26-Sep-12, 20:48
The term 'plebian' was used to describe the common people of ancient Rome, as opposed to 'patrician' which implied money, power, status and high birth.

Once again, a Tory has allowed the mask to slip and we can see them exactly for what they are.

The PM is hardly likely to discipline the Chief Whip which he appointed 2 weeks ago. Escpecially when said Whip, demanded and was given the use of a 60,000 Jaguar to take him the short distance from his residence to the Commons. This was despite Cameron having stated that junior ministers were not to get the use of limos. (This according to a certain red-top publication)

ducati
26-Sep-12, 21:37
How do you know Duke that it wasn't one of the public onlookers who informed the press?

C3.

And presumably provided the Telegraph with the transcript of the Police notebook :lol:

tonkatojo
27-Sep-12, 10:22
I for one would not put it past the papers claiming it was from a police notebook to sensationalise the story/facts.

Duncansby
27-Sep-12, 14:16
Why shouldn't the papers publish the story? He's a public figure, serving the public and whilst working he behaved in an inappropriate manner. Aren't MPs accountable to us? Shouldn't we be entitled to know when they behave inappropriately whilst serving our interests?

changilass
27-Sep-12, 14:20
Just because someone is a public figure it does not give me the right to know their inside leg measurement.

It's more about lack of faith in the Police. How would you feel if you told them something, only for it to be publicised.

Whilst I accept that what you say can be used in court, it shouldn't be used for any other reason.

Certainly not for scoring points.

Yes, what the guy did was wrong, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Duncansby
27-Sep-12, 14:36
I don't care about his inside leg measurement what I care about is that he represents me and everyone else in this country and whilst in public office, (he didn't 'tell' them anything) he behaved inappropriately and broke the law by swearing and causing a public order offence! What sort of example is that to set? Why should that be swept under the carpet when others would be prosecuted?

changilass
27-Sep-12, 14:57
No one is suggesting its swept under the carpet.

It should be dealt with in the same manner as if it was you or I, this doesn't involve leaking things to the blooming press.

Phill
27-Sep-12, 15:27
Lets not forget that Murdoch et al are still smarting from their fall from grace with the govt' and will jump on any opportunity to rubbish an MP regardless of what the rozzers think.

changilass
27-Sep-12, 15:39
Still not the point.

The media could not have gotten hold of what was written in the 'rozzers' note book if they hadn't passed it on.

Corrie 3
27-Sep-12, 16:38
Don't forget Changi that a good percentage of news comes via the police, I dont think the papers could exist without the information given to them by the police. This case is no different, if it was the police who were swearing at the MP it would have got onto the front pages and so should this incident!!
The man is a complete Ass, much the same as all Tory MP's.

C3.

ducati
28-Sep-12, 07:21
Don't forget Changi that a good percentage of news comes via the police, I dont think the papers could exist without the information given to them by the police. This case is no different, if it was the police who were swearing at the MP it would have got onto the front pages and so should this incident!!
The man is a complete Ass, much the same as all Tory MP's.

C3.

I know lots of Torys. They are just ordinary people. Your political beliefs do not define you. If you're a complete Ass that is down to you not who you work for or vote for.

Phill
28-Sep-12, 09:10
Still not the point.The media could not have gotten hold of what was written in the 'rozzers' note book if they hadn't passed it on.But had it been "passed" on by the copper(s) directly involved or hunted out by those with an axe to grind? A few years ago this would have been a page 7 non story.

RecQuery
28-Sep-12, 09:49
Let's not profile people based on political affiliations or assign them certain attributes and characteristics because they support a certain political party.


But had it been "passed" on by the copper(s) directly involved or hunted out by those with an axe to grind? A few years ago this would have been a page 7 non story.

That was before Leveson though. Just because something was ignored in the past doesn't mean it should be now.

Phill
28-Sep-12, 11:27
That was before Leveson though. Just because something was ignored in the past doesn't mean it should be now.Quite so, but it is a bit of a non event in the scheme of things worthy of little more than a paragraph somewhere along side the tellybox listings.