Scottish Independence media articles

[The Pepsi Challenge]

A couple of very interesting, very well-written feature articles on the subject of Scottish Independence. You don't see this kind of journalism every day, so please give them both a read.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/03/nuk103.xml

http://www.opendemocracy.net/globalization-institutions_government/scottish_independence_4141.jsp

[j4bberw0ck]

We have a parallel close to home. Ireland, as part of the UK, was impoverished and resentful. As an independent country it is contented and prosperous. The small independent nations of Europe, such as Ireland, Norway, Iceland and Finland, are among the most prosperous. Small countries are closer and more responsive to the needs of their citizens and more flexible in responding to changing circumstances in the global economy.

Eyoop, here we go again. Ireland was impoverished until the EU pumped in billions and gave it rampant inflation and incredible house price inflation.

Norway, Iceland and Finland are prosperous for reasons other than just being small countries - they have resources which Scotland doesn't enjoy. We churned this one a few weeks ago.....

http://forum.caithness.org/showpost.php?p=160249&postcount=25

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Aye, cheers for the heads up, like, wideo.

[scotsboy]

There is nothing new, different or enlightening in either of those articles, the same old stuff none of which stirs the bagpipes in my chest. I do however agree with the Tam Dalyell view, that the current set-up is simply a conduit towards independence…..although I am more for the Union, than against Independence.
I have always considered the Scottish Assembly a bit of a joke, full of 4th rate politicians who accomplish very little, however after having spent the last few weeks in England-shire I must admit to having changed my mind – they may not have accomplished anything different, but they have at least maintained many of the services which are being denied to those South of the Border – in terms of health and education. There is a huge wave of resentment in England towards Scotland, fuelled by the usual rhetoric in the Daily Mail et al – in reality it is because Scotland appears to be doing well. Interesting times.

[Through]

Scotland has its own very distinct culture, a history that many others can only dream of, the twentieth largest economy in the world, its own language should you choose to pay any attention to it, its own code of laws, its own parliament, its own national dress and prints its own bank notes. There are few other countries with such a wealth of advantages.

Scotland continually finds ways to encourage its dominantly bigger neighbour to push it down. From the wars of independence (which we won and a lot of people seem confused about that point) right through a continual series of events following on from the Act of Union. Although the Act of Union dictates that the countries of the union will have equal rights, we can investigate the liquor tax that hit whisky, the salt tax that hit exports of salted fish (Scotland had a rich trade with the low countries, the Baltic countries and other countries in Europe, while England paled in comparison) the Darien Project, the law passed by Sir Robert Peel that Scots banks may not be allowed to take over English banks (if the Clydesdale bank had gone ahead and the others followed suit, all of the big banks would be Scots and we would probably have a banking system based on banking for commercial reasons instead of Government reasons as we have with the Bank of England today. Experts agree that this would be a better system) siting a new nuclear reactor that might be unstable and implode in the north of Scotland, when it's time to down size national industries the Scots parts are always closed in preference to the English ones, then there's the Poll Tax trial. There are too many other instances to quote here, but what a list there is.

Then there are the decisions taken by Westminster. A system where the number of English MPs far outweighs the number of Scots. Each time something like fishing hits the agenda, the decision is taken from an English point of view. "We have to show the continentals we're doing our bit so lets down size the fleet." The fishing industry in England was not very significant in terms of the whole economy. In Scotland, the fishing industry is (was) enormous and our boys took the pain.

Even when we vote, there are ten times as many in England as there are in Scotland, so we get the government England votes for. Democracy?

[Oddquine]

Scotland has its own very distinct culture, a history that many others can only dream of, the twentieth largest economy in the world, its own language should you choose to pay any attention to it, its own code of laws, its own parliament, its own national dress and prints its own bank notes. There are few other countries with such a wealth of advantages.

Scotland continually finds ways to encourage its dominantly bigger neighbour to push it down. From the wars of independence (which we won and a lot of people seem confused about that point) right through a continual series of events following on from the Act of Union. Although the Act of Union dictates that the countries of the union will have equal rights, we can investigate the liquor tax that hit whisky, the salt tax that hit exports of salted fish (Scotland had a rich trade with the low countries, the Baltic countries and other countries in Europe, while England paled in comparison) the Darien Project, the law passed by Sir Robert Peel that Scots banks may not be allowed to take over English banks (if the Clydesdale bank had gone ahead and the others followed suit, all of the big banks would be Scots and we would probably have a banking system based on banking for commercial reasons instead of Government reasons as we have with the Bank of England today. Experts agree that this would be a better system) siting a new nuclear reactor that might be unstable and implode in the north of Scotland, when it's time to down size national industries the Scots parts are always closed in preference to the English ones, then there's the Poll Tax trial. There are too many other instances to quote here, but what a list there is.

Then there are the decisions taken by Westminster. A system where the number of English MPs far outweighs the number of Scots. Each time something like fishing hits the agenda, the decision is taken from an English point of view. "We have to show the continentals we're doing our bit so lets down size the fleet." The fishing industry in England was not very significant in terms of the whole economy. In Scotland, the fishing industry is (was) enormous and our boys took the pain.

Even when we vote, there are ten times as many in England as there are in Scotland, so we get the government England votes for. Democracy?

Agree with every word!

[JAWS]

It would appear that there is more support in England for separation from Scotland than there is in Scotland for Separation from England.

Scotland, 52% for Independence from England.
England, 59% for Independence from Scotland.

So much for England being the one which is fighting hard to stop the two Countries separating.
Vote SNP for a Free England would appear to be England's wishes, perhaps the SNP would have more success if it put up Candidates in England!
Seems the English are more fed up with Scottish interference in England than Scots are by the English interfering in Scotland!

Ah well, the sooner the better seems to be the wishes of both peoples!

[Gogglebox]

Once we have an Independant Scotland will we want an independant Highlands and then independant Caithness?

Will people be satisfied once an independants state is formed?

Personally i would be for a Independant Scotland but not run by the SNP

They seem like a one trick pony and dont seem to have much ideas about running the country once independance is achieved.

Once Independance is achieved what will be th point of the SNP as that is what they were formed for.

No other major party will go for Independance so its a bit of a gamble to vote SNP just for independance and hope they can run a country and an economy for the following years which in a nations early years will be the most important

Where do you place that cross next May? - -Personally i find its never been so difficult to decide, but i wouldnt not vote

[Oddquine]

Once we have an Independant Scotland will we want an independant Highlands and then independant Caithness?

Will people be satisfied once an independants state is formed?

Personally i would be for a Independant Scotland but not run by the SNP

But if there was a vote for Independence in a referendum, the party in power at the time, whether SNP or not would be obliged to call an election as soon as practicable.

I'm an SNP voter now, but would likely vote Lib-Dem(or a near equivalent) in an independent Scotland.

The SNP, at the moment , is a vehicle..............what they become after Independence is up to the Scottish voter.

[Gogglebox]

But if there was a vote for Independence in a referendum, the party in power at the time, whether SNP or not would be obliged to call an election as soon as practicable.

I'm an SNP voter now, but would likely vote Lib-Dem(or a near equivalent) in an independent Scotland.

The SNP, at the moment , is a vehicle..............what they become after Independence is up to the Scottish voter.

If that was the platform they stood on at the next election i would vote for them as you say as the means to an end and then have an election to see who runs the country but i cant see them relinquishing the mandate they would feel they had.
If they win next May they would surely still have to have a referendum for independance

[Oddquine]

If that was the platform they stood on at the next election i would vote for them as you say as the means to an end and then have an election to see who runs the country but i cant see them relinquishing the mandate they would feel they had.
If they win next May they would surely still have to have a referendum for independance

True, but it is unlikely that, with PR they would get enough members to form a government on their own, far less have a majority...........and without a majority, what they can do is limited to agreement with partners in power.

Frankly, as for ability, I can't see a lot of difference in the ability of the SNP to govern as long as necessary to hold a referendum if one compares it to the Nulabour/LibDem ability to govern as shown to date. Can you?

Might even get less nanny-statism! :confused

[JAWS]

Gogglebox, it wouldn't be the first time I've advocated Independence for the Highlands. Even a poor Englishman knows that the Highlands have always been distinct and separate from the rest of Scotland.

The only reason the Lowlanders show any interest in the Highlands at all is because they want to steal the Oil from up here.

[Through]

Gogglebox, it wouldn't be the first time I've advocated Independence for the Highlands. Even a poor Englishman knows that the Highlands have always been distinct and separate from the rest of Scotland.

The only reason the Lowlanders show any interest in the Highlands at all is because they want to steal the Oil from up here.

I thought that nearly all of the oil belonged to Orkney and Shetland.