View Full Version : BT have moved the broadband upgrade date once again to 31/03/2013 this time... [sigh]
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/NSTHU
I've posted about this a couple of times before - here (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?182060-BT-move-the-Exchange-upgrade-date-again-and-still-no-work-on-NextGen-broadband) and here (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?161487-HIE-and-their-supposed-next-generation-broadband-project) - but it's become a joke at this point though as they've moved it way more than just a month or two.
Perhaps I'm being cynical but I suspect one of two things is happening. Either BT are putting off the date so they can use it as a bargaining chip in the HIE Next Generation Broadband tender or when BT win the tender they're going to upgrade and count it as a part of their tender commitment, with the tender basically subsidising upgrades BT planned on/had to do anyway.
Postponing it to that date is ridiculous.
Although, from BT it's almost expected.
pentlandlad
14-Sep-12, 21:09
Just checked and it is now RFS date set : 31/01/2013
Just checked and it is now RFS date set : 31/01/2013
I imagine there have been a fair number of complaints, perhaps even the useless HIE has finally said something. The line BT came back with is that they can only do the required upgrades at a certain time each year... and if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/NSTHU
I've posted about this a couple of times before - here (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?182060-BT-move-the-Exchange-upgrade-date-again-and-still-no-work-on-NextGen-broadband) and here (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?161487-HIE-and-their-supposed-next-generation-broadband-project) - but it's become a joke at this point though as they've moved it way more than just a month or two.
Perhaps I'm being cynical but I suspect one of two things is happening. Either BT are putting off the date so they can use it as a bargaining chip in the HIE Next Generation Broadband tender or when BT win the tender they're going to upgrade and count it as a part of their tender commitment, with the tender basically subsidising upgrades BT planned on/had to do anyway.
I find this annoying as a IT Expert..i have 8mb broadband well apparently 8mb-more like half a mb- and i am a heavy user of bandwidth 200-300gb a week...and i am coping well with these speeds..remember 56kb???..i do not see the big deal unless your a company needing to send out vast quantities of data.. which i highly doubt as your most days sat on the org complaining.."or giving your opinion" its not my place to say it but i will... plus quite possibly endure the backlash of the org cliqe..but as i spend 0% of my life here i don't care...bt has been choke holding Scotland for as far back as i can remember a few more months do not matter ...GEEEEZ...World poverty...theres something to complain about.........:roll:
changilass
16-Sep-12, 13:17
Considering it was supposed to be the end of 2011, its hardly a couple of month.
Whilst you may cope with what is available, it doesn't mean everyone else can.
I think your point would have been much better received without the personal comments, but thats just me.
.... and what the hell has world poverty got to do with it.
I am now down in Aberdeen, we have fibre optic, makes a whole heap of difference.
I find this annoying as a IT Expert..i have 8mb broadband well apparently 8mb-more like half a mb- and i am a heavy user of bandwidth 200-300gb a week...and i am coping well with these speeds..remember 56kb???..i do not see the big deal unless your a company needing to send out vast quantities of data.. which i highly doubt as your most days sat on the org complaining.."or giving your opinion" its not my place to say it but i will... plus quite possibly endure the backlash of the org cliqe..but as i spend 0% of my life here i don't care...bt has been choke holding Scotland for as far back as i can remember a few more months do not matter ...GEEEEZ...World poverty...theres something to complain about.........:roll:
While I agree that there are more important things, I would have thought you would be shouting for faster speeds, after all assuming that you are using the wrong abbreviations and that your download speed is half a megabit/second and that you actually mean gigabytes (capital B) for your downloads as is normal then this would take almost 900hours to download 200GB at 0.5Mb/sec but there are only168 hours in a week, if you manage 8Mb download it would only take 56hours, on the other hand if you are quoting downloads in gigabits, which I would not expect an IT expert to do then it would only take around 112hours at 0.5Mb/sec
secrets in symmetry
16-Sep-12, 21:55
I was about to make much the same post - thanks for saving me the time and effort
I was pretty sure you can't download 300GB in a week at 0.5Mb/s - even if you run it at full whack every second of the day for 7 days lol!
Metalattakk
17-Sep-12, 04:01
But he "is a IT Expert..."!
Maybe that's rap talk for "moron" . . .
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z55/Metalattakk/f_doh.gif
I find this annoying as a IT Expert..i have 8mb broadband well apparently 8mb-more like half a mb- and i am a heavy user of bandwidth 200-300gb a week...and i am coping well with these speeds..remember 56kb???..i do not see the big deal unless your a company needing to send out vast quantities of data.. which i highly doubt as your most days sat on the org complaining.."or giving your opinion" its not my place to say it but i will... plus quite possibly endure the backlash of the org cliqe..but as i spend 0% of my life here i don't care...bt has been choke holding Scotland for as far back as i can remember a few more months do not matter ...GEEEEZ...World poverty...theres something to complain about.........:roll:
I hate the dismissive, reductionist world poverty statement that says you can't argue about or debate anything because some people have it worse.
Assuming a consistent speed with no disruptions at 0.5 Mb/s (512 kbps) it would take 1302 hours and 5 minutes or 54 days, 6 hours and 5 minutes to download 300GB. So longer than a week. I 28, I remember 56k with its two hour disconnect, having to redial endlessly because BT and other ISPs couldn't even handle dial-up and all that. I remember the broadband campaign we had back then about how we had to fight just to get 512 kbps and I remember other people echoing similar sentiments to those in your post.
I wish people would get as worked up about our telecomms infrastructure as you seem to think they are. It's a lot more important than some things that generate outrage but your average person doesn't seem to realise this.
Just because something has been happening for a long time that's not an excuse to let it continue.
It's not the fact we have to wait a few more months - assuming it doesn't get changed yet again, it's the fact it's constantly been changed since December 2010 and the lack of communication or explanations for the change.
It's the fact that people are worried that BT are going to take our Next Generation Broadband funding and use it fund last generation upgrades that they'd have to do anyway.
It's the fact that HIE are quite frankly useless and that their managers and 'IT experts' in charge of the project have about as much technical acumen as well your average BT helpdesk employee so they either don't see or don't care how much we're being screwed.
It's the fact that BT use their publically funded infrastructure to create a monopoly then neglect that infrastructure and refuse to allow other providers reasonable access to it.
The point is that BT charge a fortune per unit of data on their 20 and 21 CN networks. A better infrastructure would mean lower prices and higher usage limits and lesser traffic shaping.
The point is that an upgraded infrastructure would have a better range than ADSL so people in more remote areas would get better speeds and more performance.
The UK is lagging behind the developed world on broadband speed, our area in particularly runs the risk of being left behind and ignored once again. Better broadband is essential to the economy and attracting business to the area. Your average website and other media is a lot larger than it was 10 years ago.
I could go on but I've said the rest in other posts on the subject.
outsidethebox
17-Sep-12, 13:21
100% support for everything RecQuery said. I even remember being on a DACS line and only getting a 26k connection, that within the last ten years. I am a home based worker and to continue in my job I need a minimum speed of 1mb, after about 4.00pm each day I am lucky to get that. During the day over 6mb is normal, and sometimes as high as 7.5mb. So yes this is a much needed upgrade that is now over a year overdue from BT's first RFS date which IIRC was october 2011.
100% support for everything RecQuery said. I even remember being on a DACS line and only getting a 26k connection, that within the last ten years. I am a home based worker and to continue in my job I need a minimum speed of 1mb, after about 4.00pm each day I am lucky to get that. During the day over 6mb is normal, and sometimes as high as 7.5mb. So yes this is a much needed upgrade that is now over a year overdue from BT's first RFS date which IIRC was october 2011.
Didn't realise the original was in October, must have got my notes wrong. That's even worse.
On a side note, I suspect the reason your speed drops after 16:00 is because your trunking line/VP is oversubscribed which is fine if everyone doesn't try to use it at the same time but after 16:00 when people come home from School, College and in some cases work and start their downloads or watch videos etc you'll notice a massive drop in performance. I had something similar happen to me albeit a lesser drop from 8Mb/s to 5Mb/s.
The way to get it fixed is to get BT (via your ISP) to do a TPM (Tie/Tied Pair Modification/Move). They might need to monitor the VP for a few days before agreeing to do this.
Yes I believe Thurso is having VP problems again, this from Plusnet website suggests a long wait for resolution!
Results: Thurso
Code:
NSTHU
County:
Highland
Enabled:
07 Jan 2004
Market:
1
http://forum.caithness.org/exchanges/lights/1.gif
Virtual paths: Red
BT is reporting that some of the virtual paths at this exchange are not operating within BT Wholesale's planning guidance, although they are still operating within the product specification.
At busy times, your ADSL connection may operate at a reduced speed, although not all customers on your exchange may be affected. You should only contact support if there is no current ETA date set.
The ETA fix time is: 20 Dec 12
Record last updated: 14 Sep 12
Yes I believe Thurso is having VP problems again, this from Plusnet website suggests a long wait for resolution!
Results: Thurso
Code:
NSTHU
County:
Highland
Enabled:
07 Jan 2004
Market:
1
http://forum.caithness.org/exchanges/lights/1.gif
Virtual paths: Red
BT is reporting that some of the virtual paths at this exchange are not operating within BT Wholesale's planning guidance, although they are still operating within the product specification.
At busy times, your ADSL connection may operate at a reduced speed, although not all customers on your exchange may be affected. You should only contact support if there is no current ETA date set.
The ETA fix time is: 20 Dec 12
Record last updated: 14 Sep 12
I like how they class this as a technical fault. When it's the result of dodgy sales practices and them overselling without having available capacity.
Surprisingly relevant news story - BT invests £8m to improve broadband in Northern Isles and far north:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-19623608 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-19623608)
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/bt-announces-investment-plans-for-highlands-broadband-link-1-2531223
http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/5539-reliable-broadband-for-shetland-at-last
However my previous points stand 20Mb/s is not Next Generation Broadband, I wouldn't even class it as Super Fast at this stage. It's Last Generation Broadband the speed other parts of the UK are ditching in favour of something better.
Also some slight concern that Orkney and Shetland - who again seem to be leagues ahead of us with PR and lobbying - will get the high end stuff and we'll be an after thought. Mention of Thurso but no mention of Wick is slightly concerning.
The UK is lagging behind the developed world on broadband speed, our area in particularly runs the risk of being left behind and ignored once again. Better broadband is essential to the economy and attracting business to the area. Your average website and other media is a lot larger than it was 10 years ago.
This echoes my sentiments exactly.
I'm getting increasingly disheartened at how seriously (or rather, not seriously) our broadband infrastructure is taken.
When you look at the sort of speeds Sweden and the Netherlands get, it makes Britain look like a third world country in comparison.
Now when you add to the fact that a lot of us here live in the Scottish Highlands it's just depressing how far behind we are.
Stone-age surfers of the internet ho!
I'm not too bothered about the speed (but unlike some I am not arrogant enough to think others aren't, oh dear) as I get okay speeds for my medium heavy usage. I am more interested in whether this upgrade means the exchange will finally be unbundled? I understand we live in a remote-ish area and we can't expect everything but I am sick of paying for overpriced re-bundled BT stuff when we really should, by now, have other options. But I cannot tell from the Samknows website (or the latest announcement) if this is just an "upgrade", or are we being unbundled at the same time? That is what I really care about.
I'm not too bothered about the speed (but unlike some I am not arrogant enough to think others aren't, oh dear) as I get okay speeds for my medium heavy usage. I am more interested in whether this upgrade means the exchange will finally be unbundled? I understand we live in a remote-ish area and we can't expect everything but I am sick of paying for overpriced re-bundled BT stuff when we really should, by now, have other options. But I cannot tell from the Samknows website (or the latest announcement) if this is just an "upgrade", or are we being unbundled at the same time? That is what I really care about.
My main concern throughout all of this is that the funding we have to upgrade our infrastructure isn't wasted. If we had no funding then I'd just have to accept what we were given. We have funding though. Of secondary concern is wondering why this funding was given to HIE to allocate to begin with, shouldn't a group of local businesses, groups and individuals be put together.
Even at top performance in the area a broadband line in an office of about 5-10 will slow to a crawl depending on what some are doing. To say nothing about linking offices in different locations, requiring a certain level of uptime or running something that requires some decent upload. A general upgrade is required for more specific use cases also. It's a rising tide sort of thing, the general level needs to be at a certain mark in order for some things to be done. A general indication of the technology and related products they're going to use is the average speed they state.
Broadband infrastructure falls into one of those areas that lots of people just don't seem to care about or view as frivolous. If electricity, mail deliveries or something else was as stunted, under developed and starved of funding as our broadband infrastructure people would care and complain a lot more. As it stands right now many people dismiss it by saying "LOL it's just download speed, I don't see a problem with my connection"
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