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Is it worth going to Oxford and the amount of debt you would end up with to do the same degree you could do in Edinburgh? Or Aberdeen?
John Little
18-Aug-12, 21:38
Is it worth going to Oxford and the amount of debt you would end up with to do the same degree you could do in Edinburgh? Or Aberdeen?No.
And in addition there are undesirable side effects.
And Edinburgh is nicer.
And the traffic in Oxford is hellish. But the Bodleian Library is certainly worth a visit.
So edinburgh is nicer and the traffic is rubbish lol - what about academically and what about future career opportunities
John Little
18-Aug-12, 22:29
Edinburgh would be just as good and does not turn you into an Oxfod type. This happened to a friend of my step daughter who became far too good for the likes of us. She was in a telly programme called 'college girls' - even her accent changed within weeks. My doctor is from Edinburgh uni and she's excellent.
Oxford will always have a resonance, and punches well above its weight in terms of academic excellence, employability, networking capabilities, a "cradle to grave" caring for you as an individual, and in essence, a brand new family. You don't just go there for three years - you are a life member. That's why my old college, St. John's still gets in touch with me forty years on with invitations to Gaudys, garden parties, dinners, and cultural and sporting events. You get to meet all sorts there - my Dad was a low-paid messenger with the Civil Service, one of my staircase buddies was the son of a Bristol postman, and on the same staircase we had a former prefect from Eton, another public schoolboy from Malvern College, the son of the owner of a huge engineering firm Oop North (Parsons) and a former night club croupier from Pakistan. We all seemed to get on, as I remember. I was reading English Language and Literature, and though it was fairly tough doing the then compulsory Latin - Book Four of the Aeniad - and some of the more arcane Anglo Saxon, we managed, aided by the brilliant lectures of Lord David Cecil on Jane Austen, Chomsky on Anything (!) and even a sighting of JRR Tolkien - no, not "Fly Fishing", the "Lord of the Rings" one - in his dotage, we felt privileged. Even my then tutor, Professor John Carey, still regularly graces the literary pages of the Sunday Times to this day.
I learnt last year that St. John's (based in St. Giles) bought the "Lamb and Flag" pub next door outright, put its own manager in, and all profits made from food and drink now go to scholarships for not altogether well off people who'd like to come. I've been back many, many times over the last 40 odd years, and I can't fault it as a place of learning, a repository of knowledge and wisdom, and a great pillar of our country's structure which can freely move from antiquity to cutting edge research, with the same eternal vigilance, sense of joy, and spirit of purpose.
As well as that, the City, its parks, and the remarkable River Cherwell, are without doubt as beautiful in the rain as they are dusted with snow or dappled with sunlight. The ghosts, too, are all around - Lewis Carroll's Alice, the Dodo, Inspector Morse, Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and the other "Inklings" holding their pipe-prodding ale-meets in "The Bird and Baby " - sorry, "Eagle and Child", just across the road from the "Lamb and Flag". In my last year, I was working as a barman in the Turf Tavern (another Oxford secret) until the Landlord sacked the whole staff one day - including his wife. When I went back a few months later, I heard that Wally the Landlord, an impressive toper, had secured the services as barman for one night only of the Visiting Professor of Dramatic Studies at St. Edmund Hall, and his lady wife. Wally had only attracted the unpaid services of one Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor. I am so very glad that I shared the same part as these scions of Hollywood, however briefly.....
I could engage in "surlapination" ("rabbiting on") forever, but the sands of time are all too rapidly drawing to a close. Try Oxford. It is open to all with an open mind and a desire to go there. But the desire must be strong!
I suppose a degree of 1.1 or 1.2 from Oxford or Cambridge carries extra weight when job hunting but a just scraped degree from them will not carry as much weight as a 1st in Edinburgh, Aberdeen etc...
So it will depend on the hard work/aptitude of the attendee on the outcome...that would determine on whether its worth the money or not (plus thier earnings 5 years down the line) but Oxford and Cambridge take the cream off the top and still reject many students with straight As, so take the best and hope to make the best of them.....your choice if you have the money...or burseries......to attend.
You dont know untill you try....you can only be knocked back etc... and if you get a place and it doesnt suit you can always transfer.
Oxford will always have a resonance, and punches well above its weight in terms of academic excellence, employability, networking capabilities, a "cradle to grave" caring for you as an individual, and in essence, a brand new family. You don't just go there for three years - you are a life member. That's why my old college, St. John's still gets in touch with me forty years on with invitations to Gaudys, garden parties, dinners, and cultural and sporting events. You get to meet all sorts there - my Dad was a low-paid messenger with the Civil Service, one of my staircase buddies was the son of a Bristol postman, and on the same staircase we had a former prefect from Eton, another public schoolboy from Malvern College, the son of the owner of a huge engineering firm Oop North (Parsons) and a former night club croupier from Pakistan. We all seemed to get on, as I remember. I was reading English Language and Literature, and though it was fairly tough doing the then compulsory Latin - Book Four of the Aeniad - and some of the more arcane Anglo Saxon, we managed, aided by the brilliant lectures of Lord David Cecil on Jane Austen, Chomsky on Anything (!) and even a sighting of JRR Tolkien - no, not "Fly Fishing", the "Lord of the Rings" one - in his dotage, we felt privileged. Even my then tutor, Professor John Carey, still regularly graces the literary pages of the Sunday Times to this day.
I learnt last year that St. John's (based in St. Giles) bought the "Lamb and Flag" pub next door outright, put its own manager in, and all profits made from food and drink now go to scholarships for not altogether well off people who'd like to come. I've been back many, many times over the last 40 odd years, and I can't fault it as a place of learning, a repository of knowledge and wisdom, and a great pillar of our country's structure which can freely move from antiquity to cutting edge research, with the same eternal vigilance, sense of joy, and spirit of purpose.
As well as that, the City, its parks, and the remarkable River Cherwell, are without doubt as beautiful in the rain as they are dusted with snow or dappled with sunlight. The ghosts, too, are all around - Lewis Carroll's Alice, the Dodo, Inspector Morse, Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and the other "Inklings" holding their pipe-prodding ale-meets in "The Bird and Baby " - sorry, "Eagle and Child", just across the road from the "Lamb and Flag". In my last year, I was working as a barman in the Turf Tavern (another Oxford secret) until the Landlord sacked the whole staff one day - including his wife. When I went back a few months later, I heard that Wally the Landlord, an impressive toper, had secured the services as barman for one night only of the Visiting Professor of Dramatic Studies at St. Edmund Hall, and his lady wife. Wally had only attracted the unpaid services of one Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor. I am so very glad that I shared the same part as these scions of Hollywood, however briefly.....
I could engage in "surlapination" ("rabbiting on") forever, but the sands of time are all too rapidly drawing to a close. Try Oxford. It is open to all with an open mind and a desire to go there. But the desire must be strong!
Is that the Oxford version of Yes! ?
One of the problems is that Oxford degrees are artificially inflated, because the types of people who get them are usually from rich, privileged and connected families. And it's those things that make them successful not the degree itself. Personally I would pick Edinburgh if given a choice.
Ah, Rec Query, I have now seen the light, and must apologise. My Dad, a bloated plutocrat working as a messenger for the MOD on less than £20 a week in the sixties, eased my passage in to Oxford, where he paid off lots of Public Schoolboys to be nice to me, and then topped it all by slipping the Dean of Degrees a few hundred grand to make sure I got a degree. So THAT's how it works! Thank you for lifting the scales from my eyes. I shall never be a class traitor again. I should have stood outside the City of Dreaming Spires, caterwauling at the unfairness of people with some brain power being allowed to indulge their passion for learning. I should have known my place and gone to the Vanessa Redgrave Trotsky University of Applied Mud, and read The Beano, or better still, not have any aerated delusions of competence and got a job down the sewers where I belonged. "Artificially inflated", my fundament! Do you make this cack up as you go along, or is this arrant silliness deliberate?
Ah, Rec Query, I have now seen the light, and must apologise. My Dad, a bloated plutocrat working as a messenger for the MOD on less than £20 a week in the sixties, eased my passage in to Oxford, where he paid off lots of Public Schoolboys to be nice to me, and then topped it all by slipping the Dean of Degrees a few hundred grand to make sure I got a degree. So THAT's how it works! Thank you for lifting the scales from my eyes. I shall never be a class traitor again. I should have stood outside the City of Dreaming Spires, caterwauling at the unfairness of people with some brain power being allowed to indulge their passion for learning. I should have known my place and gone to the Vanessa Redgrave Trotsky University of Applied Mud, and read The Beano, or better still, not have any aerated delusions of competence and got a job down the sewers where I belonged. "Artificially inflated", my fundament! Do you make this cack up as you go along, or is this arrant silliness deliberate?
Well, that escalated quickly. Touchy subject with you perhaps? I was merely making a statement of opinion not a personal attack relevant to your experiences. Yet somehow you seem to have already invested my response with prescribing to a certain world view. Evidentially though you seem way too emotionally attached to an academic institution if it evokes this kind of response.
Still my point stands as I did not say everyone that attended was priviledged merely that the fact that most are artifically inflates the perceived importance of their degrees.
rogermellie
19-Aug-12, 02:34
Ah, Rec Query, I have now seen the light, and must apologise. My Dad, a bloated plutocrat working as a messenger for the MOD on less than £20 a week in the sixties, eased my passage in to Oxford, where he paid off lots of Public Schoolboys to be nice to me, and then topped it all by slipping the Dean of Degrees a few hundred grand to make sure I got a degree. So THAT's how it works! Thank you for lifting the scales from my eyes. I shall never be a class traitor again. I should have stood outside the City of Dreaming Spires, caterwauling at the unfairness of people with some brain power being allowed to indulge their passion for learning. I should have known my place and gone to the Vanessa Redgrave Trotsky University of Applied Mud, and read The Beano, or better still, not have any aerated delusions of competence and got a job down the sewers where I belonged. "Artificially inflated", my fundament! Do you make this cack up as you go along, or is this arrant silliness deliberate?
Well, that escalated quickly. Touchy subject with you perhaps? I was merely making a statement of opinion not a personal attack relevant to your experiences. Yet somehow you seem to have already invested my response with prescribing to a certain world view. Evidentially though you seem way too emotionally attached to an academic institution if it evokes this kind of response.
Still my point stands as I did not say everyone that attended was priviledged merely that the fact that most are artifically inflates the perceived importance of their degrees.
if these are anything to go by, Oxford obviously generates better shuttupayaface replies
Having not had the opportunity of attending any University, but seeing the above exchange, Oxford would be my choice by a country mile. :cool:
Notwithstanding the envy of the lumpen proletariat displayed above, anyone would be a damned fool to pass up a chance to study at Oxford.
A Gypsy who works in an amusement park is off to Oxford University after gaining outstanding A-level results, making her one of the first travellers to make it there.
Shelby Holmes, 18, head girl at St Brigid’s School in Denbigh, north Wales, has been travelling the UK outside term time all her young life.
But now she will have to put down new roots after her place to read English literature at Trinity College, Oxford, was confirmed.
Miss Holmes, 18, achieved two A* in English Literature and religious studies and a B in history.
Shelby is from Towyn and on top of her studying she has a part-time job in the family run amusement park, Pleasure Land.
But she wasn't out celebrating last night when her results came out, as she had to be back at work calling out bingo numbers.
'It is great news, I had to get three As to get into Oxford but, because I got two A*s, thankfully I’ve still got in,' she said.
'These type of results are extremely unusual for travellers and to go to any university is very rare for us.'
'My family and my mum have been behind me all the way to go to university and during my exams,' she said.
'I won’t be out celebrating unfortunately, I’m working in the arcade calling the bingo numbers.
A University of Oxford spokesman said: 'Oxford works incredibly hard to ensure candidates from non-traditional and under-represented backgrounds are not put off applying here and undertook more than 1,500 outreach events last year alone.
'We are very pleased that for 2012 entry we have continued to attract students from schools and backgrounds that have little previous experience with Oxford.
'We will continue our programme of outreach and recruitment activities in Wales and hope more academically talented Welsh students will consider looking across the border to Oxford.'
Tilly Teckel
19-Aug-12, 11:54
A Gypsy who works in an amusement park is off to Oxford University after gaining outstanding A-level results, making her one of the first travellers to make it there.
Oh well, there goes the neighbourhood! ;)
Given the revelation about Oxford in this thread. I suppose it does explain parliament where all people can do is shout and scream like little children sputtering with impotent rage. Nice to know they have a token gypsy makes for good PR and news head lines, makes people feel are warm and fuzzy. Perhaps they can have the gypsy dance and attend all college dinners as a curiousity. Like they used to do with native americans and black people.
Perhaps Oxford can dedicated a college to poor students and not let them in to any of the others so people know who to reject.
Twenty-one Oxbridge colleges took no black students last year - http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/dec/06/oxford-colleges-no-black-students
Just five schools in England sent more pupils to Oxford and Cambridge over three years than nearly 2,000 others combined - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14069516
Oxford gets rejection letter from student - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-16604050
Teachers 'prevent' comprehensive pupils from applying to Oxford and Cambridge - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/6005185/Teachers-prevent-comprehensive-pupils-from-applying-to-Oxford-and-Cambridge.html
Given the revelation about Oxford in this thread. I suppose it does explain parliament where all people can do is shout and scream like little children sputtering with impotent rage. Nice to know they have a token gypsy makes for good PR and news head lines, makes people feel are warm and fuzzy. Perhaps they can have the gypsy dance and attend all college dinners as a curiousity. Like they used to do with native americans and black people.
Perhaps Oxford can dedicated a college to poor students and not let them in to any of the others so people know who to reject.
Twenty-one Oxbridge colleges took no black students last year - http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/dec/06/oxford-colleges-no-black-students
Just five schools in England sent more pupils to Oxford and Cambridge over three years than nearly 2,000 others combined - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14069516
Oxford gets rejection letter from student - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-16604050
Teachers 'prevent' comprehensive pupils from applying to Oxford and Cambridge - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/6005185/Teachers-prevent-comprehensive-pupils-from-applying-to-Oxford-and-Cambridge.html
God that's desperate! Bit of a chip perhaps?
God that's desperate! Bit of a chip perhaps?
Yes, I doubt that Mr RecQuery has been in a position to turn Oxford down.
Is it worth going to Oxford and the amount of debt you would end up with to do the same degree you could do in Edinburgh? Or Aberdeen?
I've no experience of the place, but I imagine that going to a prestigious university is as much about making contacts as it is about receiving and education.
Given a choice, I'm sure I'd prefer an Oxford/Cambridge qualification over here or an Ivy league qualification in the US, than from a "lesser" establishment. But it would also depend what I was studying. For many of the Sciences or Engineering subjects, I'd probably be better off elsewhere.
My understanding, from word of mouth, is that Edinburgh University has a significant proportion of students who had it as second choice having been knocked back from Oxbridge and St Andrews. I've no idea of the reputation of Aberdeen University, but RGU has an excellent reputation for Engineering.
Is it worth the debt? If you're going to get a skilled job and make more money back over your working life than you would without it - definitely. If one finds themselves in financial difficulty having spent 4 years obtaining a degree in media studies before working for minimum wage in a bar - probably not.
secrets in symmetry
20-Aug-12, 00:35
Oxford ain't what it was - I've just learned that they abolished Bulldogs in 2003! Were you aware of that pmcd?
No - but I was once given a lift by a Bulldog (complete with bowler, and definitely "on duty"), down Banbury Road in 1969 after a function at 333, and he dropped me off at a young lady's house to make an important phone call. He left without me, even though he knew our intentions were to keep me from achieving a college pernoctation as required by the rules......Bulldogs were very versatile and flexible, as long as you gave them respeck', man!
God that's desperate! Bit of a chip perhaps?
Do all of your arguments basically consist of parroting what I say but from the other side while ignoring anything else?
I don't have the numbers to hand but I'd be willing to bet that the average wage of an Oxford student 12 months after graduating compared to the average wage of someone from the likes of Glasgow or Edinburgh is substantially higher. Of course, as previous people in this thread have suggested this may be down more to making contacts than the quality of the degree itself but that is a moot point when considering whether or not it is worth getting into debt. If my hunch is correct, the extra salary an Oxford student would potentially earn would far outstrip the difference in debt obtained during the 3-4 years at university.
Do all of your arguments basically consist of parroting what I say but from the other side while ignoring anything else?
They don't :eek:
secrets in symmetry
21-Aug-12, 08:46
No - but I was once given a lift by a Bulldog (complete with bowler, and definitely "on duty"), down Banbury Road in 1969 after a function at 333, and he dropped me off at a young lady's house to make an important phone call. He left without me, even though he knew our intentions were to keep me from achieving a college pernoctation as required by the rules......Bulldogs were very versatile and flexible, as long as you gave them respeck', man!Ah, but was the young lady sent down (or at least sent to the proctors) for attempting to entice a naive young man away from his college pernoctation?
But seriously....
Is an Oxford BA worth £27,000 in fees (£36,000 for a new-fangled "M" degree such as MEng) when you could get the Scottish version for free? That's the question you have to ask yourself once you've applied, and once you've been through the college interview process, and once you've got your offer. You also need 3 straight As at Advanced Higher (or the equivalent in English educational currency).
You don't choose Oxford, Oxford chooses you. Actually, your Oxford College chooses you, not the University.
For now, you can only apply, and there's no reason not to do that if you're serious about it. As pmcd says, it's a fine place to study, and you become a member of your College (and of the University) for life. You'll also receive begging letters for life. :cool:
There's a reasonably good university over towards East Anglia you might also consider, :cool: and a couple more world class ones in London.
And of course if you're stuck, there's always "The Other Place" - that rather shabby polytechnic in the Fens........Cambridge! Incidentally, the begging letters aren't a problem, as thanks to the Oxford Degree, you've made a fortune anyway. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to be driven down on my e-Type Golf Cart by Fatima for my morning grape peeling and pink champagne swigging breakfast before elevenses by one of the pools. Then, I think, a bit of grouse shooting before having my butler draw me a bath prior to putting on the old Soup and Fish for a splendid dinner in the Japanese Wing, and then some pleasant all-night clubbing - the Reform, Whites and the Savile will do for tonight.
Pip pip, dont'cha know?!!!
And what about the new fangled MEng or MChem degrees? Desireable? Or just a fad.....
And what about the new fangled MEng or MChem degrees? Desireable? Or just a fad.....
I think the Meng is now required for chartership of certain organisations because the standard Beng has been diluted.
Japanese wing!
Very eighties that isn't it.
secrets in symmetry
22-Aug-12, 01:32
There's a reasonably good university over towards East Anglia you might also consider :cool:
And of course if you're stuck, there's always "The Other Place" - that rather shabby polytechnic in the Fens........Cambridge!Yes - thank you! Cambridge. That's the new place over towards East Anglia I was thinking of this morning - I couldn't remember its name. Is it any good?
I think the Meng is now required for chartership of certain organisations because the standard Beng has been diluted.Yes, I believe the MEng is the standard route into Chartered Engineer status nowadays, although I think you can still get in with a BEng and some further study and/or training - which makes sense. Similarly MChem is standard for Chartered Chemist, MPhys for Physics, and MBiol for Biology. There's also an MMath for Maths. Some places (such as Glasgow) attach the MSci label to all(?) of their integrated Masters science degrees - it would make life simpler if everyone did this....
The "M" degree is also the standard route into a PhD nowadays.
The Oxford PPE degree is the standard route into the cabinet - Tory or Labour.
The Oxford PPE degree is the standard route in the cabinet - Tory or Labour.And Hi-Vis PPE is the route for those that didn't go to Uni. :-)
secrets in symmetry
22-Aug-12, 08:15
And Hi-Vis PPE is the route for those that didn't go to Uni. :-)The only PPE worn by male PPE students at Oxford is the condom, and that's not needed very often. Perhaps the hi-vis variety just isn't attractive to young ladies....
Of course that's only because no where else is allowed to teach the PPE degrees. The standard route now seems to be: Private school>PPE Degree>Unpaid internship>researcher>cabinet aide>Running as an MP in some no hope constituency for experience>Proper MP. It's like someone tried to come up with the most exclusionary and out of touch system possible.
Also on a side note parliament made unpaid internships illegal, yet still has them itself.
List of universities offering PPE - United Kingdom and Ireland
Durham University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durham_University)
Kingston University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_University)
Lancaster University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancaster_University)
Open University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_University)
Swansea University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swansea_University)
Queen's University Belfast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen's_University_Belfast)
University of Dublin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Dublin)
University of East Anglia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_East_Anglia)
University of Essex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Essex)
University of Exeter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Exeter) (Philosophy and Political Economy or Flexible Combined Honours PPE)
University of Hull (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Hull)
University of Manchester (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Manchester)
University of Oxford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Oxford)
University of Stirling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Stirling)
University of Sussex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Sussex)
University of Warwick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Warwick)
University of York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_York)
National University of Ireland, Maynooth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Ireland,_Maynooth)
Royal Holloway, University of London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Holloway,_University_of_London)
Plus dozens of USA and European universities. Good to know we've done our research in the usual way.......
]
Of course that's only because no where else is allowed to teach the PPE degrees. The standard route now seems to be: Private school>PPE Degree>Unpaid internship>researcher>cabinet aide>Running as an MP in some no hope constituency for experience>Proper MP. It's like someone tried to come up with the most exclusionary and out of touch system possible.
There's quite a few Universities teaching PPE's.............
All MP's are voted in by the public..........
You cynic......... ;-)
Having previously studied at the University of Edinburgh I may well be biased, but I would say that assuming the original poster is asking about a Scottish prospective student then I would take Edinburgh over Oxford every time. Edinburgh seems to generally be considered well throughout the world and is probably the "best" university in Scotland in terms of rankings the past couple of years ago. But in saying that I know people who study or have studied at every major university in Scotland and all are very pleased with the university they choose. Oxford, Cambridge, and the US Ivy League universities are always going to top these rankings in various orders if only because once a university has the reputation that they have they're going to get more money and attract the best researchers, professors, and therefore students.
And of course you're always going to get people who claim Oxford etc are full of posh and rich students, but from my experience they actually just tend to be full of some of the best students. An example: my girlfriend was looking for a PhD starting in the next academic year. She studied at Edinburgh, was projected at (and later achieved) a first class degree in her field. She had invested large amounts of her previous summers doing unpaid internships for experience as well as working in a nightclub to earn money. And when she applied to Oxford, Cambridge, and others, she got a chance to interview with a dozens of others all looking for a handful of places with only a couple of the places supplying the funding she needed. Everyone wanted those funded places, but at least half would be able to accept an offer of a non-funded place due to having a family who could afford (not necessarily easily) to pay for it. Anyway, upon receiving replies from the dozen or so institutes she'd applied to, she got a few offers (including Oxford and Cambridge) for fully funded PhDs.
You can go to whatever university in whichever country you like, and you can rack of debts doing it, or you can be lucky enough like myself to be able to study for free in certain universities. What matters most is if you put in the effort and the work or not. If you do, you have a good shot at a good future, no matter which you university you studied at. When I was at Wick High School, there were good enough to show us around most of the universities in Scotland, and you got to learn a bit about them. From there on in, I'd suggest picking the one that you think will suit you best, not the one that will look best.
How much does it cost a student to attend university if they are sober?
How much does it cost a student to attend university if they are sober?
I don't really drink beyond the odd one socially. I lived pretty comfortably on about 6-7k a year. You'd need to get a part time job to get that amount but it's pretty easy. The main cost is accommodation, you'll be price gouged for substandard flats by slumlords and halls of residence are actually more expensive than a private flat.
secrets in symmetry
25-Aug-12, 15:24
Oxford is full of posh, rich students. Most of them happen to be quite clever too, and most of them are undergraduates in arts and law - and especially in PPE. :cool:
There are fewer posh, rich students in science and engineering, and in Mathematics. There are also fewer posh, rich postgraduates and postdoctoral researchers - especially in the sciences.
Balliol is traditionally Oxford's "Scottish" College - Adam Smith went there, but he wasn't impressed with the education he received. He preferred Glasgow. :cool:
Actually, it's worth reading Smith's writings on Oxford University - it's quite a demolition job!
secretsquirrel
25-Aug-12, 17:25
surely what University you go to depends on what you want to study and which university is offering the course you want. It also pays to remember that university is not just about study and obtaining a degree, it helps to introduce you to many new people, some will become lifelong friends and experiences - remember to check out the student union!!! I know that many things have changed since i was at university it used to be scottish universities where 4 years for a honours degree whereupon it was only 3 years for english universities.
I know for a fact that when I studied at university there where many students who did not like being so far from their families and had to transfer to a university closer to where they came from, on the other hand others thought it was wonderful being away from their families.
remember depending where you study you can take your washing home at the weekend .
secrets in symmetry
06-Oct-12, 22:17
I forgot to post the following on this thread when it was "live".
Another good reason to go to Oxford! :cool:
Oxford University rewrites gender dress code
Oxford University students will no longer have to wear gender-specific academic clothing after concerns it was unfair to the transgender community.
It will mean men can attend formal occasions in skirts and stockings and women in suits and bow ties.
It's from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-19038488)
LOL - he has opted for Edinburgh as his first choice.
outsidethebox
08-Oct-12, 13:56
Ah, but was the young lady sent down (or at least sent to the proctors) for attempting to entice a naive young man away from his college pernoctation?
But seriously....
Is an Oxford BA worth £27,000 in fees (£36,000 for a new-fangled "M" degree such as MEng)
Just playing catch up on this thread and thought it was worth responding to this one.
Let's assume that the total fees are £36,000, and an average working life after completing studies is, oh let's say...
... 36 years.
Given the reputation that Oxford has there is a reasonable prospect of earning an additional £1000 per year for the whole of a graduates working life (and a fair bit extra too!) and on that basis alone surely it must be worth taking on that level of debt?
There is a lot of elitism with Oxford & Cambridge, which is understandable as they are ancient learning seats. Oxford is a very nice place, But it is not the best place to go. I would look at the type of subjects you would like to study, and see what both universities offer in the the way that the courses are taught. This should help give you some indication of where to go, I did my degree at Manchester and the course archaeology was not great but facilities were good with regard to the John Rylands library, but it does vary with regards to which degree you end up doing.:)
secrets in symmetry
10-Oct-12, 00:17
Are you telling us that people should study at Manchester because its courses are "not great", but it has a good library?
Do I hear the sound of Bodley and Radcliffe (and Hooke) turning in their graves?
Why do you say Oxford "is not the best place to go"? Do you not like men in skirts and black stockings?
This should help give you some indication of where to go, I did my degree at Manchester and the course archaeology was not great but facilities were good with regard to the John Rylands library, but it does vary with regards to which degree you end up doing.:)
Out of interest, to help this 'debate', could you give us an idea of how many of you studied archaeology, how many of your coursemates (that you know) ended up employed because of it, and whether or not you think the cost (either private or government funded) was justified by the employment benefits after graduation?
secrets in symmetry
10-Oct-12, 00:26
Just playing catch up on this thread and thought it was worth responding to this one.
Let's assume that the total fees are £36,000, and an average working life after completing studies is, oh let's say...
... 36 years.
Given the reputation that Oxford has there is a reasonable prospect of earning an additional £1000 per year for the whole of a graduates working life (and a fair bit extra too!) and on that basis alone surely it must be worth taking on that level of debt?Perhaps....
I'm not (quite) convinced (yet), but when you put it like that....
There is a lot of elitism with Oxford & Cambridge
That's why people go, they want to join the elite. (and you never know, we might let them :lol:)
@Secrets in Symmetry I was not referring to all courses at Manchester, JUST archaeology.
@Theone if I remember correctly there was roughly around forty of us, and I am not sure how many still work in archaeology. As I have not seen anyone since the year I graduated, I think it was worth doing a degree I had come from an archaeological background. And worked over an eleven year period before studying, I no longer work in the profession. We were the last group to get grants so it was state funded, and at that time loans had already been introduced. :)
On the whole I have nothing against Oxford I am sure it is a good university! It comes across a bit elitist.
secrets in symmetry
10-Oct-12, 23:25
@Secrets in Symmetry I was not referring to all courses at Manchester, JUST archaeology.
On the whole I have nothing against Oxford I am sure it is a good university! It comes across a bit elitist.I don't know how many books the ManU library has, but my main point was that the Bod surely has many, many more - you don't choose ManU over Oxford for its library! :cool:
Oxford and the jumped-up newcomer in the Fens are the best universities in the UK by just about any (academic) standard. You can choose to describe their academic excellence as elitist, but I bet ManU would love to get close to their level!
I would consider paying £36,000 in fees for an Oxford degree, but not for a ManU one - especially when I could pay no fees at all at a good Scottish university such as Edinburgh, Glasgow, St Andrews or ....
I have to agree with secretsquirrel, it depends entirely what subject you wish to pursue.
Many of the red brick universities offer excellent scientific courses that neither Oxford or Cambridge do, especially in computer sciences and physics although the latter two would excel in many of the arts based courses.
secrets in symmetry
11-Oct-12, 00:05
Lol! Old wives' tales and ancient hearsay die hard. Oxford and the other place offer some of the best science degrees in the world!
I concur with the above. It is alleged that Cambridge University have brought themselves up to date, and they now offer Science degrees in the fields of Alchemy, Astrology, and Necromancy. Some of the latest equipment, including pestles, mortars, retorts, and sulphur-burners have been acquired. Students, I am told, no longer have to attend Matins, Mass, and Vespers each day - only one Divine Service is required. Collections are in the Hilary Term of the First Year: those passing, unless possessed of an aegretat, are allowed to continue to Finals. Peasant Entry is encouraged.
I don't know how many books the ManU library has, but my main point was that the Bod surely has many, many more - you don't choose ManU over Oxford for its library! :cool:
I was not making comparisons between who has the best library, I used it in the context of facilities. With regard to my experiences of studying their, And I am not advocating Manchester over Oxford or any other University. ;)
secrets in symmetry
11-Oct-12, 23:08
I concur with the above. It is alleged that Cambridge University have brought themselves up to date, and they now offer Science degrees in the fields of Alchemy, Astrology, and Necromancy. Some of the latest equipment, including pestles, mortars, retorts, and sulphur-burners have been acquired. Students, I am told, no longer have to attend Matins, Mass, and Vespers each day - only one Divine Service is required. Collections are in the Hilary Term of the First Year: those passing, unless possessed of an aegretat, are allowed to continue to Finals. Peasant Entry is encouraged.Don't forget Pure and Applied Phrenology. Professor Sirius Lee D'Mented of the Department of Eugenics is a world leader in this fast-growing field of brainy people.
BTW They don't have Hilary in the Fens, they have Lent instead. I think they invented student loans. :cool:
I was not making comparisons between who has the best library, I used it in the context of facilities. With regard to my experiences of studying their, And I am not advocating Manchester over Oxford or any other University. ;)Does ManU library not have any books then? It's the modern way you know....
Coincidentally, I recommended ManU to a school kid yesterday. He lives nearby, so he has to pay fees wherever he goes.
The poshest Weegie I know works at ManU. She's cool. :cool:
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