View Full Version : Hypocrisy over Assange?
So William Hague has said he won't allow Julian Assange to leave the UK without being extradited to Sweden to face dubious sex charges and yet when Libyan embassy staff shot dead PC Fletcher then they were put on the first plane home.
Nick Noble
16-Aug-12, 18:37
Vast difference though.
The people in the Libyan Embassy were diplomats who are immune from prosecution under international treaty.
Assange is simply a chancer who will quite rightly be arrested when he leaves the Ecuadorean embassy as he eventually must.
Vast difference though.
The people in the Libyan Embassy were diplomats who are immune from prosecution under international treaty.
Assange is simply a chancer who will quite rightly be arrested when he leaves the Ecuadorean embassy as he eventually must.
But I'm fairly sure that it is only the Ambassador himself that has diplomatic immunity not all the hangers on.
Nick Noble
16-Aug-12, 18:41
no, all accredited diplomats, can be hundreds in a big embassy
If Equador has granted Assange then extradition will breach Assange's human rights, you know the UK government should respect other country's decisions.
Nick Noble
16-Aug-12, 18:47
no primacy to UK obligations vis-a-vis international treaty for extradition. Assange is accused of serious crimes and should face up to it like a man instead of making out he is being pursued because of a political agenda.
Sexual predators such as him need to be prosecuted for the sake of all decent human beings.
Whatever: I can't see the good that Assange has done: On the contrary, how can he expect overall public support or sympathy for his widespread release of controlled multi-governmental documents that may, or may not, have gone some ways to diminish national or international security?
The guy, whether previously nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize or not, has, I believe, gone outside acceptable boundaries in order to further his own self esteem, and that of others who think themselves above the level of the common man.
The only thing that I admire him for is to push for more openness of Government decision making and reporting.
Let him take what comes, without hiding in the basement of whatever random country he runs to. Let's face it: everyone else would have no choice. I have no sympathy for this man and further, I'm ashamed that he is Australian.
no primacy to UK obligations vis-a-vis international treaty for extradition. Assange is accused of serious crimes and should face up to it like a man instead of making out he is being pursued because of a political agenda.
Sexual predators such as him need to be prosecuted for the sake of all decent human beings.
I'm all for Assange to face charges isn't it possible to face a trial at a neutral location under Swedish rules?
Nick Noble
16-Aug-12, 19:07
Whatever: I can't see the good that Assange has done: On the contrary, how can he expect overall public support or sympathy for his widespread release of controlled multi-governmental documents that may, or may not, have gone some ways to diminish national or international security?
The guy, whether previously nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize or not, has, I believe, gone outside acceptable boundaries in order to further his own self esteem, and that of others who think themselves above the level of the common man.
The only thing that I admire him for is to push for more openness of Government decision making and reporting.
Let him take what comes, without hiding in the basement of whatever random country he runs to. Let's face it: everyone else would have no choice. I have no sympathy for this man and further, I'm ashamed that he is Australian.
I honestly care not one jot about his release of government documents.
I care passionately that he is charged with rape and sexual assault in Sweden. If as he states it was consensual then go back and stand trial and face justice.
He is just a nasty sexual predator that does not qualify for asylum under any of the international rules applicable.
Nick Noble
16-Aug-12, 19:08
I'm all for Assange to face charges isn't it possible to face a trial at a neutral location under Swedish rules?
That would I guess be a matter for the Swedish authorities.
He is just a nasty sexual predator that does not qualify for asylum under any of the international rules applicable.So you've decided he's guilty without facing a trial first have you? I'm sure the people of Thurso have had a lucky escape in not voting you into office :-)
Personally, I'd like to see him stand trial, but he should only be extradited on condition he is not then extradited to America. I'm sick of America thinking it runs the world and everyone should bend to their will, I'd give America the same response as the guy from Standard Chartered.
Aaldtimer
16-Aug-12, 19:23
I honestly care not one jot about his release of government documents.
I care passionately that he is charged with rape and sexual assault in Sweden. If as he states it was consensual then go back and stand trial and face justice.
He is just a nasty sexual predator that does not qualify for asylum under any of the international rules applicable.
Whatever happened to "Innocent until proved guilty"?
From the BBC News site..."Mr Assange took refuge at the embassy in June to avoid extradition to Sweden, where he faces questioning over assault and rape claims, which he denies."
Not very liberal of you Nick, is it?:roll:
changilass
16-Aug-12, 19:29
So William Hague has said he won't allow Julian Assange to leave the UK without being extradited to Sweden to face dubious sex charges and yet when Libyan embassy staff shot dead PC Fletcher then they were put on the first plane home.
The law was changed after, and as a direct result of the Libyan Embassy Siege.
no primacy to UK obligations vis-a-vis international treaty for extradition. Assange is accused of serious crimes and should face up to it like a man instead of making out he is being pursued because of a political agenda.
Sexual predators such as him need to be prosecuted for the sake of all decent human beings.
Innocent till proven guilty?
I'm all for Assange to face charges isn't it possible to face a trial at a neutral location under Swedish rules?
How about they have a video link up to the Embassy, if he is found guilty then they can have him, if not he is free to avoid America however he chooses.
How about they have a video link up to the Embassy, if he is found guilty then they can have him, if not he is free to avoid America however he chooses.
Yes indeed, or how about Swedish prosecutors come to the UK to interview Assange to see his side of the story and if there is anything in the allegations? So far there has been no interest in doing this, just the extradition request. At one point Swedish version of the DPP said Assange had no case to answer until the US got involved, now they are mad for him to go back to Sweden. Strange?
What would the UK gov. do with someone who employs a hacker in the military no less to steal private, confidential and secret documents? I think in these circumstances, America have every right to prosecute him. That aside, Sweden is not known for a) co-operating with America b) persuing people over bogus allegations, so I'm inclined to support his extradition to Sweden and if they can make a good case (and they will have to) further extradition to the States.
Why did he choose Ecuador? Not known for their moderate attitude to Human Rights are they? But, they don't have an extradition treaty with the USA. (Prob. 'cos the President would be arrested immediately!) However, I don’t think he chose well as we can be fairly certain that he would be well in range of any CIA snatch squad that care to go for him. If they bother.
[COLOR=#222222] I think in these circumstances, America have every right to prosecute him.
America already have their man, Bradley Manning. Assange hasn't broken any US laws on US soil or even broken any treasonable laws as he doesn't have US citizenship. Assange just merely ran a website that leaked information and boy that he did.
If someone leaked information about the Russia and passed it on to Assange, do you think the US would be trying to extradite Assange for running a website about leaking information?
America already have their man, Bradley Manning. Assange hasn't broken any US laws on US soil or even broken any treasonable laws as he doesn't have US citizenship. Assange just merely ran a website that leaked information and boy that he did.
If someone leaked information about the Russia and passed it on to Assange, do you think the US would be trying to extradite Assange for running a website about leaking information?
Er no. But Russia might
Er no. But Russia might
OK so you chose avoid my point so do you really think the US would allow Assange to be extradited to Russia under those circumstances if he lived in the US?
Assange is not accused of serious crimes despite the best efforts of the media to make it sound like he is. He is accused of allegedly lying about using a condom - assuming for a moment that this is true one does wonder how the two women couldn't tell the difference. That's it lying about using a condom which isn't even considered a crime on most of the planet.
Not to conduct any character assassination but: There's also the fact that the two people accusing him basically boasted about the sex via Twitter and blogs. Much later when they adjusted their stories and the Swedish police originally looked into it while Assange was still in Sweden they found no evidence and decided not to continue and let him leave the country. It's only after - assumed - pressure from the US government that they tried to resurrect it. Because no country pursues minor, unconvicted sex criminals for extradition so relentlessly.
Ecuador offered for Assange to go to Stockholm tomorrow if there was no extradition to the US. Sweden refused to guarantee no extradition to the US. Ecuador offered to allow Sweden to interview Assange regarding the charges but they wouldn't. Assange has also said he'd be happy for any trial to be held in a UK court where he'd get fairer treatment but Sweden doesn't want that either.
If Assange is granted a diplomatic passport or made a temporary diplomat he could leave the country tomorrow, they could also smuggle him out in a container with diplomatic immunity.
On a side note: I seriously can not believe the UK was actually going to consider suspending diplomatic immunity. I can just assume that the idiot who suggested it didn't realise that it would give other countries the moral high ground to do similar things to UK diplomats. Just imagine if one country suddenly declared that diplomatic territory was fair game. it would undermine the whole international system of diplomacy.
I'm also surprised Bradley Manning hasn't committed 'suicide' yet. Perhaps the US wants to leave it for a few more years before arranging for something to happen.
These two links may also be worth a look:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/06/assange-rape-accuser-cia-ties/
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7565838-who-is-anna-ardin-one-of-assanges-accusers (http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7565838-who-is-anna-ardin-one-of-assanges-accusers)
(http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7565838-who-is-anna-ardin-one-of-assanges-accusers)
OK so you chose avoid my point so do you really think the US would allow Assange to be extradited to Russia under those circumstances if he lived in the US?
No, I misunderstood your point. All theright words, not necessarily in the right order? In answer to thatquestion I don't know but it isn't really relevant. Your complaint isthat someone you presumably support, is likely to get his comeuppanceisn't it?
Some people think in this day and agethere is no place for outraged people demanding to know everything!
Assange is not accused of serious crimes despite the best efforts of the media to make it sound like he is. He is accused of allegedly lying about using a condom - assuming for a moment that this is true one does wonder how the two women couldn't tell the difference. That's it lying about using a condom which isn't even considered a crime on most of the planet.
Not to conduct any character assassination but: There's also the fact that the two people accusing him basically boasted about the sex via Twitter and blogs. Much later when they adjusted their stories and the Swedish police originally looked into it while Assange was still in Sweden they found no evidence and decided not to continue and let him leave the country. It's only after - assumed - pressure from the US government that they tried to resurrect it. Because no country pursues minor, unconvicted sex criminals for extradition so relentlessly.
Ecuador offered for Assange to go to Stockholm tomorrow if there was no extradition to the US. Sweden refused to guarantee no extradition to the US. Ecuador offered to allow Sweden to interview Assange regarding the charges but they wouldn't. Assange has also said he'd be happy for any trial to be held in a UK court where he'd get fairer treatment but Sweden doesn't want that either.
If Assange is granted a diplomatic passport or made a temporary diplomat he could leave the country tomorrow, they could also smuggle him out in a container with diplomatic immunity.
On a side note: I seriously can not believe the UK was actually going to consider suspending diplomatic immunity. I can just assume that the idiot who suggested it didn't realise that it would give other countries the moral high ground to do similar things to UK diplomats. Just imagine if one country suddenly declared that diplomatic territory was fair game. it would undermine the whole international system of diplomacy.
I'm also surprised Bradley Manning hasn't committed 'suicide' yet. Perhaps the US wants to leave it for a few more years before arranging for something to happen.
These two links may also be worth a look:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/06/assange-rape-accuser-cia-ties/
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7565838-who-is-anna-ardin-one-of-assanges-accusers (http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7565838-who-is-anna-ardin-one-of-assanges-accusers)
(http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7565838-who-is-anna-ardin-one-of-assanges-accusers)
Wow! who would have thought a case like this would spawn conspiracy theories?
Nice way to dismiss a point. Also a conspiracy theory requires five things which my post doesn't have.
Nice way to dismiss a point. Also a conspiracy theory requires five things which my post doesn't have.
I did not know that. Who makes the rules? [lol]
whitechina
18-Aug-12, 00:41
I honestly care not one jot about his release of government documents.
I care passionately that he is charged with rape and sexual assault in Sweden. If as he states it was consensual then go back and stand trial and face justice.
He is just a nasty sexual predator that does not qualify for asylum under any of the international rules applicable.
Tut tut Nick! Judging him guilty without seeing the proof??? If my memory serves me correctly the Swedish police investigated this matter and found no case to answer.............but then there were all those documents released on Wikileaks and as if by magic the allegations resurface.Anyone else smell a rat??
It's a good thing we have whistleblowers otherwise we'd be ignorant of a great many wrongdoings.
Sweden does have an extradition treaty with the US.The first signed on October 24th 1961 which came into force December 3rd 1963.
The second was signed on March 14th 1983 which came into force September 24th 1984.
I feel pretty certain that if Assange ends up in Sweden he'll find himself in the US shortly afterwards.
Aaldtimer
18-Aug-12, 02:48
Yeh, Nick has gone kinda quiet on this one hasn't he?[disgust]
Er no. But Russia mightRussia doesn't do extradition, just Polonium 210.
Nice way to dismiss a point. Also a conspiracy theory requires five things which my post doesn't have.Curious as to the five things??
Anyway, he is a word you're not allowed to use on the org (begining with T) of the highest order and deserves everything he gets.
Nick Noble
18-Aug-12, 12:41
Tut tut Nick! Judging him guilty without seeing the proof??? If my memory serves me correctly the Swedish police investigated this matter and found no case to answer.............but then there were all those documents released on Wikileaks and as if by magic the allegations resurface.Anyone else smell a rat??
It's a good thing we have whistleblowers otherwise we'd be ignorant of a great many wrongdoings.
Sweden does have an extradition treaty with the US.The first signed on October 24th 1961 which came into force December 3rd 1963.
The second was signed on March 14th 1983 which came into force September 24th 1984.
I feel pretty certain that if Assange ends up in Sweden he'll find himself in the US shortly afterwards.
Not judging him guilty, simply saying he should act like a man and attend court in sweden where they will judge his guilt.
Not judging him guilty, simply saying he should act like a man and attend court in sweden where they will judge his guilt.Sorry Nick, but you posted the following: 'Sexual predators such as him need to be prosecuted for the sake of all decent human beings'. By that statement you've decided he's guilty before he's had a chance to prove himself innocent in court. You're not American by any chance are you? :-)
Nick
You are a shining light for a ConDem candidate.
Looks like we dodged a bullet in not voting for you.
oldmarine
18-Aug-12, 19:55
So you've decided he's guilty without facing a trial first have you? I'm sure the people of Thurso have had a lucky escape in not voting you into office :-)
Personally, I'd like to see him stand trial, but he should only be extradited on condition he is not then extradited to America. I'm sick of America thinking it runs the world and everyone should bend to their will, I'd give America the same response as the guy from Standard Chartered.
By golly Joxville, I agree with you. The politics in the USA has gotten ugly. Many of my WW2 Marines settled in Australia and New Zealand rather than live in the USA. It's getting even worse with rabid Muslims killing USA citizens to make their point. I believe I see the same thing going on in London. Politics are getting very difficult. I have talked to some Muslims who settled in the USA for their safety. Thank goodness for the good Muslims.
Once again he allegedly lied about using a condom during consensual sex with two women. that's what Sweden wants to question him about. He already 'manned up' and faced the spurious charges once already, he's willing to 'be a man' and face the charges in Sweden again if they guarantee there will be no extradition.
Does lying about using a condom - that's the actual charge BTW, that's why the media refers to it in more general terms otherwise they'd be laughed at - make someone a sexual predator? it isn't even considered a crime on 99% of the planet.
One a side note I hate when people say things like 'man up' or 'be a man' etc. What gives you the right to define what masculinity is or what it means to be a man. I view it as the male equivalent of slut shaming or telling a woman to 'make you a sandwich', 'get back in the kitchen' or that she should be 'barefoot and pregnant'.
oldmarine
19-Aug-12, 18:31
Sorry Nick, but you posted the following: 'Sexual predators such as him need to be prosecuted for the sake of all decent human beings'. By that statement you've decided he's guilty before he's had a chance to prove himself innocent in court. You're not American by any chance are you? :-)ra
I just hope he is not extradited to the USA. It would be too costly to the taxpayers and we are so deep into debt we will never get out of debt at the rate we are going. I don't see how we can be classified as a super power with our enormous debt.
There has been a lot of stuff posted here and in the news about the nature of the sexual assault charges Julian Assange Faces and that he "lied about using a condom" so here they are from the warrant I beleive....
1. Unlawful coercion
On 13-14 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm. Assange, by using violence. forced the injured party to endure his restricting her freedom of movement. The violence consisted in a firm hold of the injured party's arms and a forceful spreading of her legs whilst lying on top of her and with his body weight preventing her from moving or shifting.
2. Sexual molestation
On 13-14 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm, Assange deliberately molested the injured party by acting in a manner designed to violate her sexual integrity. Assange, who was aware that it was the expressed wish of the injured party and a prerequisite of sexual intercourse that a condom be used, consummated unprotected sexual intercourse with her without her knowledge.
3. Sexual molestation
On 18 August 2010 or on any of the days before or after that date, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm, Assange deliberately molested the injured party by acting in a manner designed to violate her sexual integrity
4. Rape
On 17 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [SW] in Enkoping, Assange deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting that she, due to sleep. was in a helpless state.
It is an aggravating circumstance that Assange. who was aware that it was the expressed wish of the injured party and a prerequisite of sexual intercourse that a condom be used. still consummated unprotected sexual intercourse with her. The sexual act was designed to violate the injured party's sexual integrity." '
Pretty unpleasant stuff. Julian Assange should and MUST answer these charges. All the suggestions that the allegations are not important or somehow less important that the "good work" that Assange does is distasteful and not true. I have seen this man described as brave - if he brave then he should face up to these allegations. Sweden is widely accepted as having a fair and just legal system and I think the requirement to have him present in Sweden is part of their legal system - not something trumped up to con him into travelling to Sweden just so they can put him on the next plane to Washington.
I care passionately that he is charged with rape and sexual assault in Sweden.
No he isn't, he hasn't been charged with anything.
The Swedish police say they only want to question him, Equadore has offered to let them question him in the embassy.
He has offered to go to Sweden if Sweden guarantees he will not then be extradited to another country.
There are no witnesses and no physical evidence so the chances of a conviction are practically nill.
It's a set up, the American government wants to get their hands on him so they can abuse his human rights like they have with Bradley Manning, they want people scared of making American abuses of international law public.
Pretty unpleasant stuff. Julian Assange should and MUST answer these charges. All the suggestions that the allegations are not important or somehow less important that the "good work" that Assange does is distasteful and not true. I have seen this man described as brave - if he brave then he should face up to these allegations. Sweden is widely accepted as having a fair and just legal system and I think the requirement to have him present in Sweden is part of their legal system - not something trumped up to con him into travelling to Sweden just so they can put him on the next plane to Washington.
Except the warrant wasn't signed by a member of the Swedish judiciary, it was signed by a Public Prosecutor, a government department.
He has no problems going to Sweden if Sweden guarantees he will not then be extradited to another country. If the Swedes are so fair and just why will they not give him that guarantee?
The only variation in charge is that in the first run through they accused him of allegedly 'lying about using a condom' whereas in the second set they say that the 'condom broke halfway through' the sexual act and he kept going for a few strokes. He hasn't even been charged with anything they merely want him for questioning. Even the condom the women produced had no DNA from either them or Assange on it. Sweden has questioned people accused of terrorism and murder in other countries yet for some reason they want Assange to go there.
These women took pictures of Assange in bed and were rather boastful and proud of it, they posted to Twitter and Blogs - they later deleted that but it's very difficult to remove anything from the Internet and no social networking site ever really deletes anything just removes references to it - this was moments after the alleged incident and similar posts continued for a few days.
After the initial charge the Swedish Judiciary, the DPP questioned him while he was in Sweden and found there to be no evidence and nothing to base a case on so no charges were brought and he was given permission to leave Sweden. It was only later that a public prosecutor with close ties to the US embassy decided to pick it up that this farce was resurrected.
Firstly, it's not rape, it's a type of sexual assault charge that exists under Swedish law, which works out to be something similar to having unprotected sex with consent, 'unexpected sex' is what it translates to. Also, he has not been charged yet, he is just wanted for questioning. So the image of a rapist, hiding in back alleys and grabbing girls off the street is not really applicable here, even if he is to be found guilty, what he would be guilty of is not much more than having sex without a condom.
The media continues to call it rape as it's easier to demonise someone for that and if they didn't people would realise how foolish this entire thing is. Plus the fact that it's costing the UK £70k a day.
Small side note here but way, way after the fact on even the second charge one of the women decided to pull the accusation of 'having sex while asleep' out of no where. Which I suppose you could class as actual rape.
In my absence the .Org seems to have recruited a lot of people who astonishingly understand the laws of several countries. It would seem apt to remember that he is accused, not charged or guilty, of sex crimes in Sweden. He is accused of numerous crimes in the United States relating to Wikileaks. And by breaching the terms of his bail in the United Kingdom he has broken our own law. And on top of all this there is extradition law between the UK and Sweden, between Sweden and the US, as well as everything surrounding diplomatic asylum and diplomatic immunity and everything in between. The idea that this is as simple as "he should man up and face the accused in Sweden" is ludicrous. For what it's worth, I would say he is within his rights to request diplomatic asylum from Ecuador as he may well have a genuine case when it comes to fearing for his life and/or fearing persecution for his political stance, and Ecuador are well within their rights to accept the request. What happens now or what should happen is much more complicated than some on here would have us believe.
oldmarine
23-Aug-12, 03:39
So you've decided he's guilty without facing a trial first have you? I'm sure the people of Thurso have had a lucky escape in not voting you into office :-)
Personally, I'd like to see him stand trial, but he should only be extradited on condition he is not then extradited to America. I'm sick of America thinking it runs the world and everyone should bend to their will, I'd give America the same response as the guy from Standard Chartered.
Looks like another person hates we USA citizens. The fact we helped GB (England & Scotland) win WW2 apparently no longer figures in the equation.
John Little
23-Aug-12, 07:29
Looks like another person hates we USA citizens. The fact we helped GB (England & Scotland) win WW2 apparently no longer figures in the equation.Oldmarine - nobody hates US citizens. But an awful lot of people do not like US foreign policy. Or British foreign policy either for that matter.The Japanese started WW2 for the US on 7 Dec 1941. Hitler declared war on the US on Dec 10. It was not just our war and it could be said that we helped you to win it.
oldmarine
23-Aug-12, 15:13
[QUOTE=John Little;971863]Oldmarine - nobody hates US citizens. But an awful lot of people do not like US foreign policy. Or British foreign policy either for that matter.The Japanese started WW2 for the US on 7 Dec 1941. Hitler declared war on the US on Dec 10. It was not just our war and it could be said that we helped you to win it.[/QUOTes. E]
John - many citizens in the USA does not like our foreign policy. Too many wars with too many loss of lives. I saw WW2 as a combined effort (in particular GB and the USA).
Without that close team effort effort that war could have been lost.
Once again he allegedly lied about using a condom during consensual sex with two women. that's what Sweden wants to question him about.
A bit more serious than that isn't it? The allegation is that he raped a woman while she was asleep.
weezer 316
23-Aug-12, 22:46
Wikileaks supporters are in danger of getting themselves hated by the public here, the public they essentially rely on to blow the whistle for them. I applaud wikileaks for shining a light on some of the dodgy practices of goevernments. IN the liong run it will help keep them in check, which is the way it should be. But this european arrest warrant and the statements read out in court were pretty graphic and Assange should go and face the music.
Also.......The UK has a very lopsided extradition treaty with the US. Sweden does not and is generally perceived to be one of the most liberal countries in the world, a place where the utterances national security does not seem to bypass habeas corpus and rightly so. Therego Assanges sheep seem to have got themselves into the incredibly paradoxical situation where they are supporting the continued freedom of a man wanted on serious sex charges, in violation of the laws they tend to bemoan thegbreaking of by governments who in this case are attempting to uphold the law.
He also broke bail in the UK. Was that a trumped up US led charge too?
A bit more serious than that isn't it? The allegation is that he raped a woman while she was asleep.
Read all my posts, that was the most recent amendment to the allegations, there have been several. It was made to make them seem more serious when the nature of the charges was gaining more public mind share.
Wikileaks supporters are in danger of getting themselves hated by the public here, the public they essentially rely on to blow the whistle for them. I applaud wikileaks for shining a light on some of the dodgy practices of goevernments. IN the liong run it will help keep them in check, which is the way it should be. But this european arrest warrant and the statements read out in court were pretty graphic and Assange should go and face the music.
Also.......The UK has a very lopsided extradition treaty with the US. Sweden does not and is generally perceived to be one of the most liberal countries in the world, a place where the utterances national security does not seem to bypass habeas corpus and rightly so. Therego Assanges sheep seem to have got themselves into the incredibly paradoxical situation where they are supporting the continued freedom of a man wanted on serious sex charges, in violation of the laws they tend to bemoan thegbreaking of by governments who in this case are attempting to uphold the law.
He also broke bail in the UK. Was that a trumped up US led charge too?
And if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. If Sweden isn't going to extradite him why don't they just say that they're not. We say how much influence the US had in Sweden with the pirate bay stuff among other less publicised cases.
Does no one actually read the posts of others on this forum.
weezer 316
24-Aug-12, 08:51
Recquery,
What has that got to do with him facing sexual assualt charges? Someone, somewhere has created a link that dosnt exist. If they extradite him for whatever reason then they do it. That doesnt not override the fact hes wanted for these charges does it? Or does it?
Recquery,
What has that got to do with him facing sexual assualt charges? Someone, somewhere has created a link that dosnt exist. If they extradite him for whatever reason then they do it. That doesnt not override the fact hes wanted for these charges does it? Or does it?
It kind of does when the whole point of these allegations - he hasn't even been charged with anything - is to extradite him.
weezer 316
24-Aug-12, 09:50
Form what I understand Swedish law wont charge him until late in procedings as is their want. The fact there is a European arresst warrant out for him AND he broke bail in this country which makes him a felon means he should be apprehended. Do you not agree?
Now, I'll ask again becuase you havent answered. What does him getting extradited to the US have to do with him facing sexual assualt charges in Sweden? Where is the link? What ahs the US government got to do with these swedes accusing him of rape??
think Weezer is right on the warrant issue and I also understand that Sweden will not charge him until he is in Sweden as that is part of their legal process.....
Isnt it true that Sweden has said that they wont comment on whether they will extradite him to the US because there has been no application made for extradition and therefore nothing to comment on.
These sex charges are there for all to see on the warrant as I posted earlier in the thread. They are serious charges, they have already questioned Assange and want to question him further and charge him. To say they dismissed the case once and therefore he shouldnt have to go back is ridiculous - there are plenty of cases where new evidence emerges and changes things.
I have no idea whether these charges are true or not but they ARE serious and the posturing and commenting about the nature of rape in the media and by people who should know better (George galloway) and the dismissal of these charges as nothing serious is appalling. This man is praised for his courage but is acting like a coward.
I like how the UK, the country that shielded and refused the extradition of General Pinochet. That's Augusto Pinochet the dictator who had dogs trained to rape people. Wants to take the alledged moral high ground on a low grade sexual assault allegation. We seem to be all about freedom and fairness when we're lecturing to certain countries. There are many more examples BTW.
You may want to read up on the whole concept of asylum also. I mean the traditional aspect not what the UK has turned it into. That may give you some insight as to why someone would do everything in their power to fight what is increasingly looking like a witch hunt.
They only accused him of 'rape' because their usual go to demonisation tactic of paedophilia couldn't apply in this case.
We need to keep in mind that the official Swedish prosector dropped the case also, even after that Assange stayed in the country for an additional two weeks to answer any further questions. It was only after he left and published the diplomatic cables that this whole thing popped up out of no where.
low grade sexual assault allegation. He has been accused of rape - not a low grade sexual assualt - in fact req What IS a "low grade sexual assault"?
They only accused him of 'rape' because their usual go to demonisation tactic of paedophilia couldn't apply in this case. they accuse him of rape because it is alleged he had sex with a woman without her consent....
We need to keep in mind that the official Swedish prosector dropped the case also, even after that Assange stayed in the country for an additional two weeks to answer any further questions. It was only after he left and published the diplomatic cables that this whole thing popped up out of no where. We need to keep in mind that we dont know the whole picture in either side in this case but the man has been accused and is wanted for questioning with a view to being charged withwith SERIOUS sexual offences - there has been no request to extradite him from Sweden to the US and so he should go and answer the questions.
weezer 316
24-Aug-12, 11:25
I like how the UK, the country that shielded and refused the extradition of General Pinochet. That's Augusto Pinochet the dictator who had dogs trained to rape people. Wants to take the alledged moral high ground on a low grade sexual assault allegation. We seem to be all about freedom and fairness when we're lecturing to certain countries. There are many more examples BTW.
You may want to read up on the whole concept of asylum also. I mean the traditional aspect not what the UK has turned it into. That may give you some insight as to why someone would do everything in their power to fight what is increasingly looking like a witch hunt.
They only accused him of 'rape' because their usual go to demonisation tactic of paedophilia couldn't apply in this case.
We need to keep in mind that the official Swedish prosector dropped the case also, even after that Assange stayed in the country for an additional two weeks to answer any further questions. It was only after he left and published the diplomatic cables that this whole thing popped up out of no where.
Your on the run here lad.
What on earth does Pinochet have to do with Assange? Each case according to its merits no?
As squidge says, what the hell is low grade sexual assualt? And why shouldnt he face the swedish authorities on it?
Who is they? And do you have ANY evidence to back up a swedish govt/US GOVT pact to run a smear campaign on trumped up charges?
Just imagine rec, for one second, he did rape both women. What then? Should be still go to Ecudor?
He will spend a long time in the embassy, followed by a brief visit to Sweden followed by a trip on an airyplane to a very dark cell for the next 150 years. That's fine by me. No-one knows how many have died because of this mans actions, it is certainly hundreds, more likely thousands.
No-one knows how many have died because of this mans actions, it is certainly hundreds, more likely thousands.
I'm not going to get into an argument as to whether he shout be extradicted or not because to be honest, the legal technicalities are bewildering. What I will say is I strongly suspect the main thrust behind the push to have this man deal with the charges from Sweden has nothing to do with these charges but is actually a bit of revenge from the Americans because of WikiLeaks. But I accept I may be wrong here.
Anyway, the key point here is that he certainly isn't responsible for the deaths of hundreds or thousands of people. He made the public aware of things governments were doing in our name on foreign soils all over the world. Information that quite rightly should be available to the public in the first place. If people died because of WikiLeaks, aim your anger at the governments, not Assange.
Aside from this, if it transpires he is a rapist, he deserves what he gets for that crime and that crime alone. However his efforts to make governments more transparent are entirely admirable and deserves the praise of everyone. That is unless you are happy that all the disgusting things governments were doing in your name abroad (which we only found out because of WikiLeaks).
I'm not going to get into an argument as to whether he shout be extradicted or not because to be honest, the legal technicalities are bewildering. What I will say is I strongly suspect the main thrust behind the push to have this man deal with the charges from Sweden has nothing to do with these charges but is actually a bit of revenge from the Americans because of WikiLeaks. But I accept I may be wrong here.
Anyway, the key point here is that he certainly isn't responsible for the deaths of hundreds or thousands of people. He made the public aware of things governments were doing in our name on foreign soils all over the world. Information that quite rightly should be available to the public in the first place. If people died because of WikiLeaks, aim your anger at the governments, not Assange.
Aside from this, if it transpires he is a rapist, he deserves what he gets for that crime and that crime alone. However his efforts to make governments more transparent are entirely admirable and deserves the praise of everyone. That is unless you are happy that all the disgusting things governments were doing in your name abroad (which we only found out because of WikiLeaks).
Research all the stuff he leaked
Looks like another person hates we USA citizens. The fact we helped GB (England & Scotland) win WW2 apparently no longer figures in the equation.Hate is a strong word Oldmarine, I don't hate anyone and that includes American citizens. What annoys me is the American attitude to the rest of the world, they ride roughshod over other countries, invade them under false pretences, regardless of how the leaders were elected. America thinks because it won WW2 then it has the right to dictate world policy. And then when someone exposes them they cry foul! As someone mentioned earlier, what if it had been Russian documents that had been published by wikileaks, would Americas stance be different if the Russians were clamouring for Assange to be extradited?
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