View Full Version : ASDA and our busy wee councillors.....
Humerous Vegetable
25-Nov-06, 14:11
I was one of the people who wrote in to the Executive to support the ASDA application. I have just had a response from the Planning Division of the parliament to say that the Scottish ministers have decided to "call in" the application for determination, and that it will be subject to a Public Local Enquiry. No timescale for this was given. Looks like some of our "representatives" have been making their mouths work overtime at Holyrood and we're not going to get our supermarket here in Thurso anytime in the near future.
mickey101
25-Nov-06, 14:38
Hi
Why are we having to fight with our supposed local representatives? Arent they supposed to represent our wishes. Havent the local community made there wishes crystal clear in this matter. I had hoped that common sense would finally prevail.
Thurso will now continue to suffer shoody service from our current supermarkets.
The Small shops in the town will suffer from the migration to Wick
We will continue to suffer an unjustified 5 pence difference in fuel prices.
And they just gave Tesco free reign in this county.
The small minority have undoubtably won the issue as I would be very surprised if ASDA dont walk away from developing a shop in this area. It isnt worth the hassle and I dont blame them.
WELL DONE
M
I Hope everyone remember this cme election time although I did hear that at least one of our hard working selfless councillor is planning on retiring before the elections next year. Doing a runner with a nice fat pension before he is booted from office for services not rendered to the community.
Dreadnought
25-Nov-06, 15:37
Common sense and politicians rarely go hand in hand.
concerned resident
25-Nov-06, 21:04
I don’t blame the councillors, they are incompetent, but it is the people of Caithness who were stupid enough to vote these people into office.
Apathy is the only word to describe the people of Caithness, and the Thurso end of the County I blame on the influence of the people, Dounreay brought up from the south, whose intention was to move south again, when they retired, which a lot did, as there children went to University, got jobs which are not available up here, and they moved down south to be near there children and grandchildren, so never had an interest in the County, where they earned there easy money. Unfortunately the position has now changed, where they can not move down near the grandchildren, as the prices of property have risen that high. So they travel south on a regular pattern to visit, but have no interest in the County of Caithness. Of course this was destined to happen by the Government, whose only interest was to staff a plant, that the could possibly blow up, so offer them good wages, as they were expendable, and the residents of course would have been sacrificed, for a few extra pounds, being brought into the county. The only loser all round, being the Beautiful County of Caithness.
Alice in Blunderland
25-Nov-06, 21:35
In defence of some of the local councillors I have to say that some of them do try and get it right for the people of the county.No I am not butt kissing as strong words were exchanged over the nursery closure decisions but a few of the councillors that I came into contact with were trying their best for us and were helpfull in explaining things to us when due to the lack of facts we were unsure as to why they reached certain decisions.
Its not an easy job to do in fact downright thankless as there doesnt seem to be an awfull lot of people who are so interested in this county that they are willing to stand for councillor.
If the present councillors were the only ones standing then with little effort they are going to get into office, so next election instead of people standing on the sidelines complaining stand for council and see if they cant do a better job.:D
It seems to be a little unfair to tar all councillors with the incompetent brush .
mickey101
26-Nov-06, 01:45
Hi
I am sorry Alice I disagree. The wishes of the general population within there wards was well felt and understood. As far as I am concerned this is a classic case of Eleanor Scott syndrome. We Thurso folk and the Thurso Traders Association are evidently too simple minded to graps the complete picture. All I can say is thank god we have our dedicated selfless councillors to protect us from our own stupidity.
M
ps I wonder if any of them play the violin or fiddle. They can play us a little ditty while Thurso town centre dies.
Alice in Blunderland
26-Nov-06, 09:56
I am sorry mickey101, I thought that some of the councillors were for Asda coming to Thurso I must admit I havent been following the debate that closely.
Thurso should have an Asda , yes I feel the councillors have got it wrong this time ,is it the location that they didnt agree with (or is it that they are shareholders in Tesco ;) ) I am only highlighting that on some issues the councillors can in fact be a help. I regularly picked up the phone no matter what time and rang some of the local councillors to clarify facts and got on most occassions a pleasant informative conversation. :D
I am sorry mickey101, I thought that some of the councillors were for Asda coming to Thurso I must admit I havent been following the debate that closely.
Thurso should have an Asda , yes I feel the councillors have got it wrong this time ,is it the location that they didnt agree with (or is it that they are shareholders in Tesco ;) ) I am only highlighting that on some issues the councillors can in fact be a help. I regularly picked up the phone no matter what time and rang some of the local councillors to clarify facts and got on most occassions a pleasant informative conversation. :D
All the Councillors were in favour of ASDA coming to Thurso - it was, and still is, the site that's the problem. The Developer already had a business development site three times the size of the proposed site (and still undeveloped) in the same area, however it appears that the developer was greedy and wanted more, more, more, wanting to re-designate yet another greenfield site. Had the developers and the Highland Council Planners been less unscrupulous at the pre-application stage and put forward plans at the business site this would have been rubber stamped in June and we would all be rejoicing the "coming of ASDA" and it's promise of cheap clothes and cheap petrol. It makes me wonder what the hold Tullochs has on the Highland Council?
Alice in Blunderland
26-Nov-06, 12:27
Thanks Moby the way I was reading it I thought that some of the local councillors must have voted against Asda.Its the site and only the site thats the problem then.
Its the site and only the site thats the problem then.
Absolutely
Humerous Vegetable
26-Nov-06, 12:48
Thanks Moby the way I was reading it I thought that some of the local councillors must have voted against Asda.Its the site and only the site thats the problem then.
4 of the local councillors did vote against the proposal, which is why it went to the full council in Inverness, where it was passed. But, because of all these shenanigans, it had it go to the Executive, where they have decided to have a public enquiry, instead of just rubber-stamping Highland council's decision. I have been trying to track down the minutes of the meeting where they decided to go for this option in their website, but don't know which committee is involved. I have a feeling it might be the Communities Committee, deputy convener (surprise surprise) the unelected Eleanor Scott. I think our only option now is to vote with our feet and do all our shopping in Wick. They might not listen to public opinion but they will listen to the sound of money escaping.
4 of the local councillors did vote against the proposal
This was outline planning only and the four Councillors concerned voted against the site only.
because of all these shenanigans, it had it go to the Executive
Not because of the "shenanigans" because it was contrary to so many Government planning policies that the HC had a legal obligation to have their decision submitted to the SE.
I smell a rat! There is no way they can possibly justify NOT giving us Asdas, after all they are supposed to be elected by us to serve us as a council and all I seem to see is a great diservice!
Humerous Vegetable
26-Nov-06, 14:03
4 of the local councillors did vote against the proposal
This was outline planning only and the four Councillors concerned voted against the site only.
because of all these shenanigans, it had it go to the Executive
Not because of the "shenanigans" because it was contrary to so many Government planning policies that the HC had a legal obligation to have their decision submitted to the SE.
Yes, it was "contrary to the Local Plan"....so was the Tesco store in Wick. Did I miss the public enquiry there? I think Mickey is right - ASDA will simply withdraw their application and go somewhere that wants a wide range of goods and fuel priced at the same level as everywhere else in the UK.
mickey101
26-Nov-06, 15:37
Hi
Please please please dont tell me that Eleanor Scott has had an involvement in this. She is determined to turn Caithness into a Green Utopia. She is another person that is hell bent on protecting us from ourselves.
Her comments about higher fuel prices and that we should be investing in Hydrogen Technology ( Local rag a couple of weeks ago) got my blood boiling I was going to write a letter back but I bit my tongue. Now I am regretting it.
She is a classic case of a politician who would rather put the decision off to someone else's shift rather than face reality NOW.
There is no viable Hydrogen technology. We still have huge obstacles to overcome before we can use Hydrogen in our cars. There are only a handful of hydrogen powered prototype cars in the world and the first cars will come from the high end car manufacturers BMW, AUDI Etc. The last time I looked the majority of folk in Caithness run around in Fords and Renaults etc.
BTW I have no problem with her publishing her opinion, just as long as she does it as a private individual. By using her MSP title she implies that she is speaking for all of us( as an elected member) when she clearly is not.
When will this woman learn to get off - WE DID NOT ELECT HER. Three hundred odd votes for the whole of the Highlands does not give her a mandate to dictate to us or screw with the economy of this county.
I predict that Thurso town centre will rapidly become a ghost town and we know who to blame. Have you been in Thurso town centre on a Saturday when there is a big football match on or during Wick fun day, this is going to be the norm.
Funny how Eleanor Scott claims to be protecting the small shop keepers when they dont want her help. In fact they wanted this development to go through as they can see the writing on the wall that our local Officials and meddling non elected member of that waste of space in Edinburgh cant see for themselves
M
ps Regarding the Scottish Parlament instead of meddling where they are not welcome why dont they actually MAKE a decision of importance to Scotland. For example getting their collective fat backsides off the fence and get a new Forth Road link moving before we have yet another national travisty on our hands.
I got the letter also and just wasn't sure what it meant :o I know where I will be doing my shopping and it won't be in Thurso, I don't care if I don't get such a big saving as I am using more fuel. It's my money and I will spend it where I want not where faceless nobody's try to make me spend it.
pretty soon councillors will be goose stepping up to our doors and dictating what we eat, think and do!
If we don't stand up for our rights we are going to end up serving the councillors needs rather than the other way about, as for the councillors who voted against Asda, in my opinion they are simply making an ass of themselves and will end up turning the whole county against themselves! (if that hasn't already happened).
I'd just like to say that I don't for one minute think that tesco bribed any councillors to stop asda opening in thurso it's just a nasty rumour.:roll:
I'd just like to say that I don't for one minute think that tesco bribed any councillors to stop asda opening in thurso it's just a nasty rumour.:roll:
Well I think that there is certainly something funny going on and it would appear that someone somewhere is getting backhanders from Tesco.
My reason for this point of view is the fact that Asda cannot get planning permission anywhere in Inverness or the North (may even be all of the Highland Region). On the other hand Tesco seem to be able to get planning permission anywhere they want whether it is within the "local plans" or not. They have now got three stores in Inverness alone and are in for planning for a fourth.
I also don't believe that it is the nonentities that we jokingly call councillors who are getting the backhanders but someone much higher up the food chain.
My guess would be that if this farcical public enquiry does go ahead the outcome will be that Asda will again get knocked back. This is assuming that they don't give up before then as they must know that the odds are now stacked against them.
Returning to the subject councillors. I can't help but feel that the people of Thurso have got what thet deserve for being stupid enough to vote the way they did. The question is, will they be daft enough to re-elect them again???
Humerous Vegetable
27-Nov-06, 17:15
After being told umpteen times by the Planning Division of the Scottish Parliament that "Scottish Ministers" had decided to hold a public enquiry over the ASDA proposal, I finally discovered that the person responsible for the decision is Des McNulty, Labour MSP for Clydebank and Milngavie, who is apparently Minister for Planning. We seem to be at the mercy up here of Central Belt politicans who know absolutely nothing about our area, and lobbying councillors who do but couldn't care less.
After being told umpteen times by the Planning Division of the Scottish Parliament that "Scottish Ministers" had decided to hold a public enquiry over the ASDA proposal, I finally discovered that the person responsible for the decision is Des McNulty, Labour MSP for Clydebank and Milngavie, who is apparently Minister for Planning. We seem to be at the mercy up here of Central Belt politicans who know absolutely nothing about our area, and lobbying councillors who do but couldn't care less.
This whole situation is seemingly getting more and more ridiculous, I bet this Mcnumpty..er I mean Mcnulty guy has never even set foot on Caithness soil yet if what you say is true then he will end up tossing a coin in the air..Heads they give us Asda tails we they don't! They don't see that this is a crucial step towards bringing Caithness in line with the rest of the uk, we are at present at the present too much at the mercy of pen pushers.
Humerous Vegetable
28-Nov-06, 12:19
I have just emailed Mr McNulty with my thoughts on his bizarre decision. Maybe if he gets a few more "Disgusted of Caithness" letters, it might make him think again? He's here: Des.Direct@scottish.parliament.uk
I have just emailed Mr McNulty with my thoughts on his bizarre decision. Maybe if he gets a few more "Disgusted of Caithness" letters, it might make him think again? He's here: Des.Direct@scottish.parliament.uk (Des.Direct@scottish.parliament.uk)
I have just e-mailed McNulty as well.
I can't help but feel that the people of Thurso have got what thet deserve for being stupid enough to vote the way they did. The question is, will they be daft enough to re-elect them again???
Good point but let us not be drawn into single-issue local politics, would you vote for an alternative candidate just so that she/he will just give you an asda? :confused
the nomad
29-Nov-06, 12:49
The four councillors that objected, just wondering where they live? Burnside? A vote of no confidence I would suggest.
Good point but let us not be drawn into single-issue local politics, would you vote for an alternative candidate just so that she/he will just give you an asda? :confused
I think you are missing the point. Asda is not the main issue here. The fact is that three Thurso councillors knowingly voted against the interests of the majority of their constituents. Their reasons for doing so are also questionable although they are using the "local plan" issue to hide behind which they only roll out when it suits them. The "local plan" did not matter when Tesco got their planning permission for their new shop in Wick! No public enquiry needed there!!
I would also suggest that instead of wasting time and money on a public enquiry that the people of Caithness be given a vote on the issue. If the majority want the Asda development to go ahead at Pennyland it should do so. If the majority don't want the Asda devlopment to go ahead at Pennyland then it should not. Simple as that!
Meanwhile alternative candidates who would represent the majority of their voters would be step in the right direction
The four councillors that objected, just wondering where they live? Burnside? A vote of no confidence I would suggest.
The three Thurso councillors were T.Jackson, R.Saxon and D Mackay.
The fourth councillor was G Smith from Wick.
I think at least two of the Thurso ones live in Burnside.
the nomad
29-Nov-06, 15:20
Now that's a surprise!!!!
MagicalTrevor
29-Nov-06, 15:30
Does anyone actually beleive another supermarket is sustainable in caithness. DOunreay is on the down, theres already a "mega"store in Wick.... What we dont need is ASDA forcing the closure of other smaller businesses. And if the ASDA in Thurso is just to "keep up with the jones'" (i.e. Tesco in Wick) then the blood of the small businesses that go under is on your hands
Humerous Vegetable
29-Nov-06, 15:58
Does anyone actually beleive another supermarket is sustainable in caithness. DOunreay is on the down, theres already a "mega"store in Wick.... What we dont need is ASDA forcing the closure of other smaller businesses. And if the ASDA in Thurso is just to "keep up with the jones'" (i.e. Tesco in Wick) then the blood of the small businesses that go under is on your hands
Yes, Dounreay is "on the down" - we desperately need new jobs on this side of the county, of any kind. Tesco in Wick is not a "megastore" - you obviously don't get out much. We need another fuel-selling supermarket to encourage competition, which will help to keep prices down, or maybe you like paying the cartel prices here in Thurso? I'm obviously not as well-off as you. Small businesses don't exist on blood, they live on customer loyalty, which they have to earn.
1. Yes.
2. Usual tired, worn out scare story.
3. A few more spots won't worry me in the least, in fact there would be so little blood I doubt anybody would notice. There certainly wouldn't be enough to get on anybody else's hands so the rest of Caithness needn't worry about the stains.
Businesses exist for the benefit of Customers. Customers do not exist just to provide work for Businesses.
MagicalTrevor
29-Nov-06, 16:36
Comparred to nearest rivals yes Tesco is a megastore. It competes with lower prices due to economy of scale. Also fuel competition already locally exists Richards, Shell etc, we dont need another supermarket merely to provide fuel competition.
What hope do small businesses have with their oh-so "loyal" customers, when at the first sign of new supermarket everyone jumps ship? These small businesses cant compete simple as that. Its looking to me like loyalty takes a backseat to price and conveniance. Also its doubtful whether in the net long run a new supermarket provides more jobs considering the other busiensses that are forced to close.
Jaws:
Yes small businesses will be forced to closed, the example of Wick with its new multi-nationals has proved this. Its not scaremongering.
and forget the business mantra. At the end of the day ASDA will come to dominate the centre of Thurso at the expense of others (fair enough this is a free market economy). I thought whether this is a good thing or not was clear to everyone but now i'm not so sure.
I could go on about the character and individuality of a town centre, not to mention (what I think) will be the ultimate net loss of jobs in the area, but no I fear the point is lost on you.
Comparred to nearest rivals yes Tesco is a megastore. It competes with lower prices due to economy of scale. Also fuel competition already locally exists Richards, Shell etc, we dont need another supermarket merely to provide fuel competition.
What hope do small businesses have with their oh-so "loyal" customers, when at the first sign of new supermarket everyone jumps ship? These small businesses cant compete simple as that. Its looking to me like loyalty takes a backseat to price and conveniance. Also its doubtful whether in the net long run a new supermarket provides more jobs considering the other busiensses that are forced to close.
Jaws:
Yes small businesses will be forced to closed, the example of Wick with its new multi-nationals has proved this. Its not scaremongering.
and forget the business mantra. At the end of the day ASDA will come to dominate the centre of Thurso at the expense of others (fair enough this is a free market economy). I thought whether this is a good thing or not was clear to everyone but now i'm not so sure.
I could go on about the character and individuality of a town centre, not to mention (what I think) will be the ultimate net loss of jobs in the area, but no I fear the point is lost on you.
Yawn!!
Same old stories usually spouted by councillors with self interests, petrol station owners, people who overlook the proposed site and "local" businesses (Coop and Somerfield) that have been providing a poor service for years. There are many local busineesses that have provided an excellent service for years who have nothing to fear.
It should be what the majority of the local people want that counts not what a few people with self interests are trying to force on them!!
Humerous Vegetable
29-Nov-06, 17:16
"Fuel competition already exists, Richards, Shell etc"
The definition of a cartel is "An alliance of business companies formed to control production, competition and prices". They are not interested in competition, otherwise how would you explain the fact that Dunnets Thurso,(no genuine competition) have unleaded at 92.9 while Dunnets Wick (competition from Tesco) have it 5p cheaper?
If small businesses in Thurso thought the advent of ASDA was going to cause them to go to the wall, Thurso Traders would not have supported the proposal.
It always amuses me that people that are anti-tesco say that they compete with lower prices. I bought an item for £7 0r £8 in Tesco only to find it cheaper in the Co-Op the next day! As with every purchase you make, you win some, you lose some. Just today I bought something for £11 and could have got it elsewhere for £9. These things are all part of life and I'll continue to buy things when I want them at the price I find them rather than traipse around comparing every price so I can save the odd pound here or there! So, Asda, Co-Op, Somerfield, Tesco, JA Mackays, Gails Giftbox, Souters, Castletown Butcher, Bews Butcher ........ the list goes on, you all have my support as and when I need you! :)
crashbandicoot1979
29-Nov-06, 17:33
What annoys me the most is the "If-Thurso-doesn't-get-ASDA-I'm-never-shopping-in-Thurso-again" brigade. Grow up and get a grip! People have a right to shop wherever they want but this attitude is just plain silly and it will achieve nothing.
It always amuses me that people that are anti-tesco say that they compete with lower prices. I bought an item for £7 0r £8 in Tesco only to find it cheaper in the Co-Op the next day! As with every purchase you make, you win some, you lose some. Just today I bought something for £11 and could have got it elsewhere for £9. These things are all part of life and I'll continue to buy things when I want them at the price I find them rather than traipse around comparing every price so I can save the odd pound here or there! So, Asda, Co-Op, Somerfield, Tesco, JA Mackays, Gails Giftbox, Souters, Castletown Butcher, Bews Butcher ........ the list goes on, you all have my support as and when I need you! :)
Spot on Henry! I couln't agree more. It is nice to have the choice to shop where you like and that includes Asda or any other retailer who wishes to set up business in the county.
What annoys me the most is the "If-Thurso-doesn't-get-ASDA-I'm-never-shopping-in-Thurso-again" brigade. Grow up and get a grip! People have a right to shop wherever they want but this attitude is just plain silly and it will achieve nothing.
How is that brigade stopping anyone else from shopping in Thurso? I don't think there is a "If-Thurso-doesn't-get-ASDA-I'm-never-gonna-let-anyone-else-shop-in-Thurso-again" brigade!:D
Perhaps our hard working, caring councillors have a cunning plan.
Maybe they think that if we don't get an Asda or for that matter any other supermarket to rival Tesco. Thurso will become run down, shops will close, unemployment will rise and Thurso will be a run down wreck, thus making us a regeneration area with lots of money being poured into it. Local plans can then be ignored and large shopping area will be built.
And can anyone out there in 'the org' tell me how the expense of a review can be justified when there only seems to have been some 70 odd against thesupermarket in the first place. This is our money they are spending (or should that be wasting)
Jaws:
Yes small businesses will be forced to closed, the example of Wick with its new multi-nationals has proved this. Its not scaremongering.
and forget the business mantra. At the end of the day ASDA will come to dominate the centre of Thurso at the expense of others (fair enough this is a free market economy). I thought whether this is a good thing or not was clear to everyone but now i'm not so sure.
I could go on about the character and individuality of a town centre, not to mention (what I think) will be the ultimate net loss of jobs in the area, but no I fear the point is lost on you.I rather suspect that businesses in Wick were closing before the "multi-nationals" opened. All you have to do is check the "Do you remember so-and-sos" threads. Things move on and things change.
I will ask the same question I have asked elsewhere, when Woolworth opened in Thurso did that cause all the small businesses to close down? In it's day that was just as "different" as Tesco and ASDA are now.
Whether ASDA is a good or a bad thing seems to be perfectly clear to most people and most seem to have decided it is.
You are right about on thing, the point about Town Centres would be completely lost on me. Town Centres change over time, always have and always will and insisting on trying to preserve them as Museum Pieces serves no useful purpose at all.
"Thurso's never been the same since they stopped delivering stuff with the horse and cart. Ah, the Good Old Days, things will never be as good ever again!"
Thank Heaven for that!
I was listening to the radio about 2 months ago about the small business holders in a town in England, yes, you heard it right, small business holders like butchers etc, who were campaigning for a big retail chain to set up in their area. They say that their businesses were suffering because of no retail centre nearby. Can you imagine it, Bews et al. campaigning for ASDA? [lol]
I too have e-mailed Mr. McNulty. We can all go over and over the Asda debate but at the end of the day the majority of people want Asda, some Councillors aren't bothered about the feelings of the people they represent they are basing their decisions on their personal circumstances. I am personally delighted about the businesses that have arrived in Wick including Tesco, however I think Thurso would benefit greatly from Asda (and not just to bring fuel prices down - although that is definitely an added bonus!!)
I might have missed something, if so then I'm sorry, but just how did Holyrood manage to get it nose stuck into this?
mickey101
29-Nov-06, 23:30
Hi
To answer your question.
Holyrood has got its nose stuck into this so that they actually look like they are doing something instead of wasting taxpayers money.
Heaven forbid they actually make a real decision like.
1) Rolling program of Dual carriaging the A9
2) Getting the ball rolling on a new crossing of the Firth of Forth before the old one has to shut.
But I guess that would be too much like common sense. I fear one of our hard working councillors has called in a few favours. After all how dare, we the electorate go against them. That is not how the game is played at all.
M
I too have e-mailed Mr. McNulty. We can all go over and over the Asda debate but at the end of the day the majority of people want Asda, some Councillors aren't bothered about the feelings of the people they represent they are basing their decisions on their personal circumstances. I am personally delighted about the businesses that have arrived in Wick including Tesco, however I think Thurso would benefit greatly from Asda (and not just to bring fuel prices down - although that is definitely an added bonus!!)
A Tesco and Asda locally could potentially make people stay in the county, rather than doing all their shopping in Inverness.
The BBC website has a similar story where local traders saw their business fall when Morrison's closed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5246568.stm
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