Ebay...Moral/Immoral?

[Kaishowing]

Just curious......On another thread I said that I'd bought something on offer from a shop, posted it onto Ebay, and made a generous profit.
The original asking price was slightly less than I had paid for it, so with the cost of postage rounded up I would have broken even.

After telling this, it was commented that that's one reason why they don't use Ebay. (A perfectly reasonable attitude)

It got me thinking though, is it moral or immoral to buy low and sell high?

[acameron]

is it moral or immoral to buy low and sell high?

Not at all mate - thats the whole purpose of ebay, to sell and the highest bidder wins.

[Colin Manson]

It got me thinking though, is it moral or immoral to buy low and sell high?
immoral

1. violating moral principles; not conforming to the patterns of conduct usually accepted or established as consistent with principles of personal and social ethics.

Every successful retailer in the world does it, I'd say that you were conforming to the accepted.

[connieb19]

You said you'd bought things and then sold them on for up to ten times that amount, not that you hade broke even. That was the reason I said I was put off buying off Ebay. :roll:

...Bought some things that were on offer from a shop, and then flogged them on ebay and people paid sometimes up to 10 times what we paid

[Colin Manson]

but he didn't ask them to pay that much, in fact he asked for less than he paid....

[Kaishowing]

Okay....follow up question then.....When does the profit made start becoming a moral issue?
For instance...buying at say £1 and then managing to sell for £50.

While pefectly legal, and following the capitalists rulebook it's still an obscene profit. Is it still moral, but a case of individual conscience?

[golach]

In any retail transaction, its buyer Beware, there is no morality in it. If you cant afford it dont buy, if you can afford it go ahead.
Go to any auction house anywhere and you will see the same bids as in eBay

[Kaishowing]

You said you'd bought things and then sold them on for up to ten times that amount, not that you hade broke even. That was the reason I said I was put off buying off Ebay. :roll:

...Bought some things that were on offer from a shop, and then flogged them on ebay and people paid sometimes up to 10 times what we paid

She's right...in the other thread it could have been read as boosting the price.

Even so, if people had bought them at the inflated price, would that be unfair? After all it is supply and demand! If someone's willing to pay a high asking price, is it wrong to cash in?

[Abdullah]

Give yourself a break, I say that if you bought something quite cheaply and made a huge profit then well done to you.

[celtic 302]

its not immoral to buy low sell high.

I think in the news that theres a similar issue in Rupert Murdoch. People have a problem with him cos he owns 40% of the UK media industry. He owns it cos he is a good business man, thats all.

[connieb19]

I'm not too sure how I feel about this, just the other day I noticed someone on this forum saying how cheap they had bought something and then a week later they were selling the same item for 3 times the price they had bought it for. I know I'd feel a bit hurt and stupid if i'd bought it and then found out so I wouldn't really want to do this to someone else. Maybe I'm too soft but I don't like to see people being ripped off. But then again if people are willing to pay the price I can see why sellers do it.

[Abdullah]

I'm not too sure how I feel about this, just the other day I noticed someone on this forum saying how cheap they had bought something and then a week later they were selling the same item for 3 times the price they had bought it for. I know I'd feel a bit hurt and stupid if i'd bought it and then found out so I wouldn't really want to do this to someone else. Maybe I'm too soft but I don't like to see people being ripped off. But then again if people are willing to pay the price I can see why sellers do it.
I'm afraid connie that in this day and age, unfortunately, money is god so make as much as you can.

[Rheghead]

If someone is willing to pay for something at a price then how can that be immoral? No one forces anyone to buy anything on ebay. When it becomes immoral to sell something is when there is an element of coercion whether explicit or implied like in a monopoly or cartel.

[mums angels]

I've bought plenty off ebay at great bargain prices and i don't worry about how cheap the other person is getting it ..only bothered about how low i can get it for, i'm perfectly aware that the seller is probably making a profit but then i'm making a saving if i can get it brand new and still cheaper than the stores..its win win if you ask me.

best one i got this week is a creepy hallooween hamster cage that is selling in pets at home for 60 and i got it for 30 and is still in box...i'm happy :D

[obiron]

while i do think the point of ebay is to get rid of your stuff and hopefully make a profit, sometimes the prices some sellers charge is a bit much. some goods can be bought at say argos for much cheaper and the postage some people charge is a joke, but i normally avoid them.

[unicorn]

The whole point is to sell to the highest bidder and nobody forces people to bid in their good.

[canuck]

The immorality comes in when someone (or nature) is hurt in a serious way. It may mean going back along the chain a few links but when free market starts impoverishing people and destroying the planet then you have reached the immoral. Unfortunately the kind of trading you are describing isn't likely immoral, but it is setting a pattern which is that thin edge of the wedge kind of thing.

As to the notion that e-bay type trading isn't "forcing" someone to buy, that too starts things onto a slippery slope. When life's basic needs become commodities and people are forced to pay high prices then they don't have much choice. It becomes buy or die. When the companies that control the commodities pay wages that keep people in poverty, then you have immorality on a rampant scale.

[WeeBurd]

Nobody is forced to buy anything. In your case, K, if you originally advertised as lower than the RRP, then fair do's to you, you made an excellent profit, and you can quite rightly feel very proud of your achievements.

However if, for example, I see a seller advertising an item at a higher price than the RRP, then I'd avoid them like the plague. Why bother even entering into the auction when it can be purchased elsewhere cheaper?

I sn't that the thing with eBay - you either go on it looking for bargains (in which case, you're going to buy from the cheapest/most reliable), or for items which you desperately want but cannot source anywhere else (in which case, money is no object, and you're likely to take more risks with not so reliable sellers))? No point in slagging the sellers off, when it's the buyers who are keeping them in business!! ;)

[Abdullah]

In a capitalist society what do you expect?

[Alice in Blunderland]

I have bought from Ebay on a good few occassions and I always set myself a limit on what I am willing to pay for an item.If I get this item within my limit then I am happy whether the person selling has made a profit or not.

Ebay sellers are not the only ones making huge profits on their items, how many local/national shops do you think are making large profits on items such as clothing etc..........:eek: it would surprise you if you really knew how much the cost price of some of the goods were before being marked up to be sold over the counter.So long as its marked to a price we are willing to pay then no-ones going to feel cheated .It pays to be a canny shopper and not get dragged into a bidding war on Ebay for the sake of winning which is where it can get you into paying lots for something not really worth it and then the only butt you can kick is your own as you offered up the money in the first place. :cool:

[Tristan]

If you are smart enough to get on ebay you are smart enough to do a quick google (froogle), lycos, price comparison site and/or get off your backside and look at the shops. If you don't you deserve the price you paid.
I have bought some things off of ebay and sold some things. I have also gone to a local or internet retailer because I can get it cheaper and/or I like their customer service: I do my research.
Buyer beware!

[DrSzin]

I know someone who's employed two days a week. On some of the days she's not working she trawls the city's second-hand/charity shops and buys goods to sell on eBay. She's been doing this for years and she's become a bit of an expert on the sort of weird stuff that eBayers snap up quickly at relatively-high prices. Collectors' items are her speciality. She does the buying; her hubby takes the photos and he looks after the eBay side. She can make £500 a month profit for a few days' work without too much effort.

I couldn't care less how much profit she makes from goods bought from second-hand shops, but the charity-shop thing kinda bothers me. She points out that she's not doing anything illegal and that charity shops could do exactly what she does - but I know it makes her feel uneasy.

Perhaps it's not immoral to do what she does, but she doesn't pay tax of any kind on the profits - is that immoral? She says it's not tax evasion - not yet, anyway.

[Abdullah]

I know someone who's employed two days a week. On some of the days she's not working she trawls the city's second-hand/charity shops and buys goods to sell on eBay. She's been doing this for years and she's become a bit of an expert on the sort of weird stuff that eBayers snap up quickly at relatively-high prices. Collectors' items are her speciality. She does the buying; her hubby takes the photos and he looks after the eBay side. She can make £500 a month profit for a few days' work without too much effort.

I couldn't care less how much profit she makes from goods bought from second-hand shops, but the charity-shop thing kinda bothers me. She points out that she's not doing anything illegal and that charity shops could do exactly what she does - but I know it makes her feel uneasy.

Perhaps it's not immoral to do what she does, but she doesn't pay tax of any kind on the profits - is that immoral? She says it's not tax evasion - not yet, anyway.
Bollocks to taxes, too many anyways.;)

[JAWS]

A fair price is that which the buyer is willing to pay and seller is willing to accept. That is provided each acted according to their own wishes.
Your junk could be just the thing I am searching for.

Picasso once created a piece of sculpture, which was given great accolades, from an old cycle saddle and a pair of handlebars. Once, when he was being asked about it in an interview he commented that, at some time in the future, he hoped that somebody would look at it an think, "Ah, just the things I need to fix my old bike!"

What was the true value of the saddle and handlebars, a couple of pounds for old bike bits or tens of thousands for a unique piece of art?
Personally I think Picasso had the right idea, it all depends on how valuable it is to you.

[Billy Boy]

like the saying goes one mans junk is another mans treasure:roll:

[JAWS]

She says it's not tax evasion - not yet, anyway.
The offence of Tax Evasion is committed only after the tax-man has informed you it is! ;)

[Bobinovich]

I'd like to see the legal side of the tax argument...

In essence you are buying an item and then selling it on for a profit = business = taxable profits

However once you buy an item from a shop it becomes yours and therefore your right to sell, whether at a profit or not = private sale = non-taxable profits

Hmmm!

Anyway, yes there are bargains to be had, but if you're daft enough to pay some of the over-inflated prices then the old adage about a fool and his money being easily parted is true.

My only advice is watch out for the postal charges - some are ridiculously high - and especially beware those not putting a postal rate on an item - they can charge you anything they want after the auction has ended. If you don't pay then they can get you thrown off.

[canuck]

I know someone who's employed two days a week. On some of the days she's not working she trawls the city's second-hand/charity shops and buys goods to sell on eBay. She's been doing this for years and she's become a bit of an expert on the sort of weird stuff that eBayers snap up quickly at relatively-high prices. Collectors' items are her speciality. She does the buying; her hubby takes the photos and he looks after the eBay side. She can make £500 a month profit for a few days' work without too much effort.

I couldn't care less how much profit she makes from goods bought from second-hand shops, but the charity-shop thing kinda bothers me. She points out that she's not doing anything illegal and that charity shops could do exactly what she does - but I know it makes her feel uneasy.

Perhaps it's not immoral to do what she does, but she doesn't pay tax of any kind on the profits - is that immoral? She says it's not tax evasion - not yet, anyway.

It sounds like a business or a "job" to me. She is finding things other people want but don't have the time and/or energy to go looking for them. Part of the expanding service industry I would think.

I am sure that the tax issue will eventually be resolved. In Canada there is a substantial dollar value of income allowed to small businesses before tax is levied. I suspect that she is under that limit or the limit that it would be if such a tax existed in Scotland.

[DrSzin]

According to an article entitled Taxman to target eBay traders (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/tax-advice/income-tax/article.html?in_article_id=403156&in_page_id=77):

If you make a profit by selling goods that you have bought you have to pay capital gains tax. Everyone is allowed to make a certain level of profit each year, currently £8,500, before capital gains tax is charged.

[_Ju_]

I couldn't care less how much profit she makes from goods bought from second-hand shops, but the charity-shop thing kinda bothers me. She points out that she's not doing anything illegal and that charity shops could do exactly what she does - but I know it makes her feel uneasy.

Perhaps it's not immoral to do what she does, but she doesn't pay tax of any kind on the profits - is that immoral? She says it's not tax evasion - not yet, anyway.

She is showing iniciative and that should be rewarded. Work, of any kind, is or should be rewarded and any mark up she has not only makes good business sense, but her clients are paying for her service, and the charity shops are happy to be selling at the price they sold at ( if they were not, they would be doing the same- going on e-bay or whatever).
When we give something to a charity shop, we are doing it to benefit the charity. The benefit the charity wants out of it they get when they sell it. If someone discovers and buys a rare ying dynasty vase for a £1 but that is worth a million, then the expertese of that person was paid £999 999 and I do not begrudge that person their reward for that knowledge/expertese/ability.

As for the taxes,I was under the impression, from someone I met once that was an e-bay seller, that above a certain volume of trade that taxes had to be declared, so if I were your friend I'd look into that so as not to have a bad encounter with the tax man later on.

[henry20]

I once bought a book on eBay to help with my higher english. When I got it, I realised I had paid more than the published price. I was a bit gutted, but it was my own fault.

Once I'd used it (and passed my higher :) ) I put it back on eBay. Someone ended up doing exactly the same thing, but I had another book on the same subject and threw it in for free.

[DrSzin]

She is showing iniciative and that should be rewarded. Work, of any kind, is or should be rewarded and any mark up she has not only makes good business sense, but her clients are paying for her service, and the charity shops are happy to be selling at the price they sold at ( if they were not, they would be doing the same- going on e-bay or whatever).
When we give something to a charity shop, we are doing it to benefit the charity. The benefit the charity wants out of it they get when they sell it. If someone discovers and buys a rare ying dynasty vase for a £1 but that is worth a million, then the expertese of that person was paid £999 999 and I do not begrudge that person their reward for that knowledge/expertese/ability.

As for the taxes,I was under the impression, from someone I met once that was an e-bay seller, that above a certain volume of trade that taxes had to be declared, so if I were your friend I'd look into that so as not to have a bad encounter with the tax man later on.I agree with you _Ju_. the charity shops could in-principle find someone to flog good stuff on eBay. I'm just surprised that people can make £500 a month without having to worry about the dreaded income tax. My friend has worked in the banking and/or financial world all her life, and her hubby used to be the MD of a small company, so they probably know what they're doing when it comes to declaring income.

[angela5]

http://www.askaboutthis.com/ebay/articles/Is-Your-eBay-Income-Taxable.html

[DrSzin]

Thanks angela5. But that website seems to be American and the tax regime there will be a bit different. I found a lot of UK sites set up by private businesses and they all say much the same thing. This one (http://www.whitingandpartners.co.uk/services/eBay_and_Income_Tax.htm) is typical. A better guide is here (http://www.norlaconsulting.co.uk/Articles_tax_ir35/Revenue_targets_eBay_traders/revenue_targets_ebay_traders.asp) and it says:

Private sellers are more likely to cross over into the dark side of the eBay economy - or to plead ignorance of the tax rules, Ludwig suggested. Some unwanted possessions, such as inappropriate wedding gifts, can be sold without a tax penalty up to the £6,000 threshold where capital gains tax might become an issue.

But those who buy items eBay on a regular basis and intend to sell them on at a profit will be considered by the Revenue to fall within its definition of trading - as in the case of one business that is reputed to have earned its founder £70,000 a year from the sale of designer shoes.

Individuals and their advisers must be aware that such activity has to be declared on an annual tax return with tax due on any profits made. Where individual, high value items are not exempt, their disposal may incur capital gains tax at up to 40% on the profit.

The anonymity of eBay may seem like an ideal opportunity to make a fast buck and dodge the taxman, Ludwig said, but the temptation should be avoided. "If you buy goods with intent to sell them (ie. trading) then tax will be due on your profits, and a record of all transactions, virtual or otherwise, has to be maintained," he said.

Finally, the only thing I found on the Inland Revenue website was this (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/BIM59501.htm). :roll:

[Bobinovich]

I bought a Wilbur Smith book off Ebay recently, paying 50p for the book and £1.50 for P&P. When it arrived the postage label said £4.75 - a result of our wonderful new postage system...

Of course I wasn't bothered, but sellers have really got to watch out now.

[oldmarine]

while i do think the point of ebay is to get rid of your stuff and hopefully make a profit, sometimes the prices some sellers charge is a bit much. some goods can be bought at say argos for much cheaper and the postage some people charge is a joke, but i normally avoid them.


I've never used ebay for sales, however I've been to a lot of garage/yard sales which are used to sell items that folks no longer wanted. People can see and examine what they want to buy and decide on the spot if it's an item they want for the asking price.

[unicorn]

I bought a Wilbur Smith book off Ebay recently, paying 50p for the book and £1.50 for P&P. When it arrived the postage label said £4.75 - a result of our wonderful new postage system...
Of course I wasn't bothered, but sellers have really got to watch out now.

I am told now it is cheaper to send things as a parcel, Hubby collects corgi lorries and the postage is now cheaper on them with the person he gets them from.