Choked off with it!

[highland red]

I know this may fall on deaf ears (again), but I just feel like I have to say something (again).

There is a complete: and I mean complete, idiot that guns his very powerful motorcycle on the B road out of Halkirk towards Thurso day in and day out , when the weather is reasonable.

I said to my OH yesterday, that if this Muppet ends up spread across the road, I don't think I could even bring myself to go out and see what his condition is/was.

What REALLY bugs me is that when this bloke/blokess is accelerating up this road he is doing so where there are very often horse riders, and in a lot of cases there are children and handicapped people riding beyond his vision, and certainly well beyond his breaking margins. I have reported this to The Police who say that they need ID on this guy.......but unfortunately the only time I was in a position to actually be quick enough to lay eyes on this k**b he was popping a "wheelie" in what appeared to be top gear.

I do realise that this may just encourage him, as is often the way in this day and age: BUT please remember this post when we are treated to a glowing testimony about "what a nice lad, and so on and so forth when he (or worse still) some other poor Sod has died or been terribly injured.

Rant over. But mark my words!!

[EDDIE]

If u get the reg thats great buts whats even better is take note of colour of helmet and the cloths hes wearing thats even better because every biker has there own combination of colours and style of bike clothes because thats how the police man can tell if it was that person driving the bike at the time or a friend its makes harder for the owner of the bike to tell porkys.

[ducati]

Bliddy hell! You have to be co-ordinated now? :eek:

[bluechesse]

Pretty sure this is going to bring down the wrath of the Leftie Speed kills mob, not to mention every horse owner on here, but........

So, the wheelie is illegal and plain wrong, can’t argue with that. While his/her front wheel is in the air he/she is not in full control of the bike. Absolutely correct. If he/she gets caught at this he/she deserves everything he gets.

But can I just ask a few questions? How do you know he/she is riding a very powerful motorcycle? And what exactly constitutes "Gunning" it? Do you ride motorcycles? The reason I ask is that most non motorcyclists seem to be convinced that every motorcycle they pass is being thrashed because it makes a little more noise than their family saloon.
What exactly is it that makes you think he/she will end up spread across the road?
So he/she is accelerating up a road where very often there are horse riders. Last time I checked accelerating was pretty standard practice. In fact, I always find if you don’t accelerate, you don’t tend to go anywhere......in fact you remain perfectly stationary.
And how exactly do you know what his breaking margins are? As you are watching him from what I assume to be a static position, you can not possibly hope to have any accurate idea of his speed. And if you don’t ride a motorcycle (I’m pretty sure from your comments so far that you do not) you can not possibly have any idea of what his breaking margins are at any given speed.
And what makes you think he's in top gear? If by top gear you mean 5th / 6th, depending on his motorcycle, then I can assure you he was not in top gear while pulling a wheelie. You would need a runway and the skills of Rossi to achieve this........

Now, regarding the horses...... I'll be open to start with, in my humble opinion horses should not be allowed on the road. All the riders would get pretty upset if someone started riding motorcycles through fields or up the forest paths they so regularly assume are theirs and theirs alone to use. Horses on the road are traveling about 1/10th the speed limit, and as such, are a danger to them selves, their riders, and everyone else on the road. Their riders don’t pay road tax, and for reasons I cant quite comprehend, seem to feel there is no need to stop and pick up the enormous piles of dropping they leave. Which by the way represents a huge danger to motorcyclists....... I also feel, no matter how competent the rider and how well trained the horse, that there is always a chance that the animal will not behave as predicted. A car or motorcycle will do what ever the driver/rider makes it do. If it crashes in to a wall, its because the rider either pointed it there, or was not in control. A horse on the other hand, even with the best rider in the world at the reins, can throw a rider simply because it didn't think its oats were up to scratch that day. And I’m afraid that anything with that element of unpredictability, no matter how small, has no business clogging up the main roads.

Anyway, back on topic, are the children actually riding these horses on the road? It would seem a little irresponsible to take children, disabled or otherwise, out on horses on a main road? I’m pretty sure I know the riding school your talking about and the do a great job giving disabled children a bit of joy by allowing them to ride horses, supervised, and with someone walking along side the animal to keep it under control. But I would doubt they do so on the main road?
Or are the horses in a field? In which case I can't really see how the motorcyclist, regardless whether or not he was riding irresponsibly, represents a danger to them?


I’m sure you have a very valid point and I apologies if I seem to have detracted from it in any way. If this motorcyclist really is behaving in a dangerous manner I sincerely hope his is caught and dealt with appropriately.
But I regularly hear non bikers making disparaging and downright false remarks about motorcycles, their excessive speed and how dangerous they are with absolutely no real knowledge of the true speed. Their opinions are normally based simply on the fact that the noise the bike makes sees to them to indicate that its going fast. In fact I have been accosted my self on one occasion and accused of traveling through the town at excessive speed when I was, in actual fact, in a cue of traffic traveling at 20 mph with cars in front and behind me...... The accuser said that I SOUNDED like I was going too fast.......Motorcycle engines rev at a rate much higher than cars, and as such, they make a lot more noise. Just because it sounds fast it doesn’t mean it is.......

Sorry Highland Red, but I too sometimes feel like I have to say something.
Ducks for cover and awaits the inevitable retribution.....

[EDDIE]

Its not so much a bike engine revs higher than a car engine its more a case of u dont need to go up and down he gears at certain speed what u would do with a car if u have accelerating quickly in 2nd and staying longer in 2nd and changinging into 3rd say at 50 then accelerating further that would give u the sound that ure were speeding

Just remember bluecheese your been monitored lol xx

[brandy]

by your theory a cyclist should not be on the road either.. as they travel at a fraction of the speed of a car and do not pay road tax. horses were the first cars and motorcycles on the road.. so i would say they have as much right as anyone. i almost hit a motorbike one day on the way to inverness.. and he then swore at me gave me rude hand gestures, and preceded to scream obsenities at me.. this is where you come on to the dual carrigeway on the way down, now if i had hit him, it would have been my fault.. even though.. i looked behind and the side, saw him behind me.. turned my blinker to indicate i was changing lanes.. looked again.. back and side.. then proceeded to change lanes as he gunned it up beside me.. he did not indicate.. he must have known i was changing lanes but then hes a bike.. it seems thier rules are dif. as they zoom in and out of traffic at a whim. i dont mind bikes.. however i do mind the idots that drive them. a rider, usually has a good respect for the animal they are on.. and pays more attention to the road around them than the average biker.. ive been up and down the road many times.. and especially in the summer months.. ive seen very irresponsible bikers doing idiotic things that not only endanger thier lives but everyone elses around them. on the other hand.. i have seen very few riders behaving in the same fashion.

[ducati]

What non bikers don't understand is the massive difference in performance envelope between even a high performance car and a big bike. You can ride around traffic at will because you can accelerate and brake many times quicker. To the observer, this looks mad. I assure you if you ignore bikers they will ignore you.

Any biker that has been doing it a while will assume you are an idiot and haven't (mostly because you are having a shave, changing CD, drinking coffee, nattering to the passenger, doing your makeup....)seen them and ride accordingly.

Not you having a shave Brandy, one of the others. [lol]


Horses are a different matter, I cut my engine to idle and chug past as wide as possible at walking pace. But I ride horses too.

[Alrock]

...Not you having a shave Brandy, one of the others. [lol]

Could be shaving her legs...
http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs24/f/2008/021/4/c/devil_laghin_by_Scotsgirl_606.gif

[brandy]

lol, have to admit i have never had a shave while driving!
the weaving in and out of cars really does bother me.. as bikes are suppose to follow the same rules as everyone else.. but that is def. not part of the rules! the most unsafe driving i have done.. is driving to raigmore in full blown labor.. but i didnt realize i was in labor *LOL* thought it was braxton hicks!

[Kestrel]

"A horse on the other hand, even with the best rider in the world at the reins, can throw a rider simply because it didn't think its oats were up to scratch that day. And I’m afraid that anything with that element of unpredictability, no matter how small, has no business clogging up the main roads."

What a refreshing post. I'm afraid I have little knowledge of motorbikes, but having kept horses all my life and having had the misfortune of losing a horse in a road related tragedy a few years ago, I couldn't agree more. At a push quiet access roads and tracks could be used in certain circumstances: not for children, young horses or disabled/inexperienced riders.

For those who present the absurd "horses were on the roads before cars" argument; yes, that is indeed a fact you're stating there but one that has absolutely no relevance when we have the volume and speed of traffic on the roads nowadays. Anyway, slightly side-tracked rant over but I just want to say again how refreshing it is to have some local common sense on this issue for once.

[squidge]

Hmmmm Surely the point is that there should be respect for whatever you are driving or riding along a road. If the bike is being ridden badly at speed then that is not right and the police should be doing something about it. However, bikes get a bad press - and people are always ready to assume the bike is at fault. The Bruce is a biker and a Bike instructor and you would not beleive the behaviour of car drivers when he is taking out his CBT Students on the road despite the fact that they are all wearing High vis vests clearly stating they are under instruction. He is used to it and at least three occasions has he asked his students to wait in a safe place whilst he went after the driver to ask them whey they felt the need to nearly kill his student and ask them to be more careful next time. The weaving in between traffic is called "filtering" and is not dangerous except when car drivers deliberately pull towards the centre of the road to prevent motorbikes filtering through - who knows why they feel the need to do that. It is recognised as legitimate motorbike manouver and is not against the rules. The worst examples of dangerous driving are on roundabouts and involve the cars approaching the roundabout in the left hand lane then entering the roundabout straight into the middle lane despite the fact that the middel lane is occupied already by a motorbike. The Bruce usually finds that a steel toe capped boot to the wing or door reminds them quite quickly and so far quickly enough. I dont follow behind his Bike cos the behaviour of car drivers is a nightmare to watch.

[brandy]

what about the passing between cars not stationary at speed? you see them swerving in and out around bends.. and straddling the middle lane when cars are coming.. because they are smaller.. im not saying everyone does this.. but i see it loads on the roads up here and the A9 between here and inverness.. buridale is crazy when they are flying up.. passing you in a blind curve! this goes for cars as well! im going over 60 but get left behind.. as far as horses on roads... as long as its not a heavy traffic road during rush hour i dont see the problem as long as its a sound horse. im guessing that if people wanted they could still ride thru the town? living in wick.. i have noticed over the years that most people, not matter what they are driving tend to make their own rules when it suits them.. i thought i was going to loose my kids one day during the snow as a van came spinning at speed up the street.. and i do not live on a thru road! responsible driving is up to everyone. no matter there mode of transportation at the end of the day. i personally, have just been terrified by bikers in the past because they have come to close to me! not the other way around..

[highland red]

Pretty sure this is going to bring down the wrath of the Leftie Speed kills mob, not to mention every horse owner on here, but........

So, the wheelie is illegal and plain wrong, can’t argue with that. While his/her front wheel is in the air he/she is not in full control of the bike. Absolutely correct. If he/she gets caught at this he/she deserves everything he gets.

But can I just ask a few questions? How do you know he/she is riding a very powerful motorcycle? And what exactly constitutes "Gunning" it? Do you ride motorcycles? The reason I ask is that most non motorcyclists seem to be convinced that every motorcycle they pass is being thrashed because it makes a little more noise than their family saloon.
What exactly is it that makes you think he/she will end up spread across the road?
So he/she is accelerating up a road where very often there are horse riders. Last time I checked accelerating was pretty standard practice. In fact, I always find if you don’t accelerate, you don’t tend to go anywhere......in fact you remain perfectly stationary.
And how exactly do you know what his breaking margins are? As you are watching him from what I assume to be a static position, you can not possibly hope to have any accurate idea of his speed. And if you don’t ride a motorcycle (I’m pretty sure from your comments so far that you do not) you can not possibly have any idea of what his breaking margins are at any given speed.
And what makes you think he's in top gear? If by top gear you mean 5th / 6th, depending on his motorcycle, then I can assure you he was not in top gear while pulling a wheelie. You would need a runway and the skills of Rossi to achieve this........

Now, regarding the horses...... I'll be open to start with, in my humble opinion horses should not be allowed on the road. All the riders would get pretty upset if someone started riding motorcycles through fields or up the forest paths they so regularly assume are theirs and theirs alone to use. Horses on the road are traveling about 1/10th the speed limit, and as such, are a danger to them selves, their riders, and everyone else on the road. Their riders don’t pay road tax, and for reasons I cant quite comprehend, seem to feel there is no need to stop and pick up the enormous piles of dropping they leave. Which by the way represents a huge danger to motorcyclists....... I also feel, no matter how competent the rider and how well trained the horse, that there is always a chance that the animal will not behave as predicted. A car or motorcycle will do what ever the driver/rider makes it do. If it crashes in to a wall, its because the rider either pointed it there, or was not in control. A horse on the other hand, even with the best rider in the world at the reins, can throw a rider simply because it didn't think its oats were up to scratch that day. And I’m afraid that anything with that element of unpredictability, no matter how small, has no business clogging up the main roads.

Anyway, back on topic, are the children actually riding these horses on the road? It would seem a little irresponsible to take children, disabled or otherwise, out on horses on a main road? I’m pretty sure I know the riding school your talking about and the do a great job giving disabled children a bit of joy by allowing them to ride horses, supervised, and with someone walking along side the animal to keep it under control. But I would doubt they do so on the main road?
Or are the horses in a field? In which case I can't really see how the motorcyclist, regardless whether or not he was riding irresponsibly, represents a danger to them?


I’m sure you have a very valid point and I apologies if I seem to have detracted from it in any way. If this motorcyclist really is behaving in a dangerous manner I sincerely hope his is caught and dealt with appropriately.
But I regularly hear non bikers making disparaging and downright false remarks about motorcycles, their excessive speed and how dangerous they are with absolutely no real knowledge of the true speed. Their opinions are normally based simply on the fact that the noise the bike makes sees to them to indicate that its going fast. In fact I have been accosted my self on one occasion and accused of traveling through the town at excessive speed when I was, in actual fact, in a cue of traffic traveling at 20 mph with cars in front and behind me...... The accuser said that I SOUNDED like I was going too fast.......Motorcycle engines rev at a rate much higher than cars, and as such, they make a lot more noise. Just because it sounds fast it doesn’t mean it is.......

Sorry Highland Red, but I too sometimes feel like I have to say something.
Ducks for cover and awaits the inevitable retribution.....

Well you don't have to duck for cover as some of your points are pretty fair ones.

In yout assumption that I am not, and probably haven't been a biker is incorrect. I have ridden four stroke BSA's right through to two stroke street and off road Kawasaki/Suzuki with Moto Guzzi and an old Ducati somewhere in between.

I rode street bikes for over 20 years plus to and from work in Manchester city centre and beyond. We were in fact a "motocross family for quite a few years with myself, eldest son and one brother in Law all racing competition in The UK and Australia (my Son very successfully).

I have also had another Brother in Law killed in a bike accident.

In regard to your comments about horse riders and their animals, I couldn't agree more with your comments about how unpredictable they can sometimes be.

Now having agreed with you here, I have to ask you how much MORE dangerous this particular bike rider is when, as a regular user of this road (and is presumably aware of the riding school and its patrons) he approaches the entrance to it (at the crest of a slight hill and on a slightly blind curve) at very high speed and STILL accelerating?

Whether or not you and I agree or disagree about the role of horses riders and their escorts (in this case), it's at worst dangerous and at best stupid (I personally think it's the latter).

I also know where you are coming from with the attitude of car drivers when it comes to the perception of bikers. In fact I really think that most car drivers would make BETTER car drivers if they had ridden a bike for a while.

Come on my friend you know what the score is: there are some very very good bike riders out there, but there are also some very very poor ones too.

You seem like a decent person, and believe me if I'm able to get this guy on video I'll be happy to let you judge for yourself as I think that this rider falls into the very, very poor category.

Regards HR.

I no longer ride a street bike any longer as my Wife, quite rightly doesn't want to see me end up the way her brother did: but I personally have never stopped being a biker in the head when it comes to riding/driving on the roads.

[bluechesse]

Hi again. Well that went a lot better than I expected! Seems there are more people on here who think a long the same lines as me than I ever realised. Particularly impressed to see such a non bias view point from a horse rider, thanks Kestrel.

Highland Red: Apologies, I assumed (incorrectly!) that you had made a few assumptions knowing very little about bikes. Seems I was way off the mark here, if you can ride a crosser with any degree of competence you probably have more control of a road bike than most. Agree totally, there are good riders and bad riders out there, the majority are good, it’s the minority that give the rest of us a bad name.

Brandy: By my theory yes, cyclists should not be on the main roads either. I’m a very keen cyclist, but I do all my cycling off road. Mostly because its mountain biking I enjoy most. However, I would like a road bike to improve my fitness as you can cover the miles a lot faster, but it’s my firm belief that cycling on a main road is about the second most dangerous thing I can think of (riding a horse there being the first!). Cyclists on minor side roads where the traffic tends to be a lot slower I can just about cope with, but the guys and gals you see cycling along the A9 between Thurso, Wick and Inverness can only have a death wish. Particularly on twisty roads like we have in the Highlands. They also cause tail backs and frustration among drivers who are forced to follow them at 5 mph along the twisty roads. At least for the ones who have the patience to wait behind them till it's clear rather than nip round them missing their handle bars by inches..... I would love to see a cycle path all the way to Inverness, but it’s just not going to happen any time soon I’m afraid. Until then, I firmly believe they shouldn’t be on a trunk road.

Also, not sure what you mean by swerving around bends and straddling the middle lane, but a motorcycle will often appear to be swerving from side to side of the lane depending on which way the next bend goes. This is to ensure the best possible view around each bend, and is a technique taught by the police on the Bike Safe course.

As for not paying as much attention as horse riders, I would completely disagree with this. While being taught to ride you are encouraged to look as far along the road as you can possibly see. While driving a car, I only really ever looked as far as the next bend. Since learning to ride a motorcycle, I find my self paying more attention to the road ahead and looking much further on in an attempt to spot upcoming hazards before they are on top of me. On the bike and in the car. There is a much greater feeling of vulnerability on a bike as you’re not surrounded by metal, as such you do find your self paying more attention. I would even go as far as to say that the other bikers I know are actually better car drivers as a result of their biking experience, and I would like to think that I am as well (my wife may disagree though.......). As Highland Red stated, biker in the head.

I agree there some absolute maniacs out there, but there are a huge amount of riders judged to be riding badly by non-bikers simply because the techniques used to ride a bike safely on the road differ so much to those used to drive a car. Next time you see a bike coming up behind you quickly, don’t slam on the breaks, don’t accelerate, just carry on as you normally would (not saying you personally do any of these things but many people do). 99 times out of 100, regardless of their speed, you will find they overtake you safely and without incident. And remember, you might think its a blind bend when your half way round it, but the guy/gal on the bike has most probably looked around it and well up the road ahead from further back and knows there’s nothing coming and they he/she has more than sufficient time to overtake.

Just realised this is my second very long winded reply in this thread, so I'll just shut up now.....

[Aaldtimer]

Bluechesse..." Mostly because its mountain biking I enjoy most. However, I would like a road bike to improve my fitness as you can cover the miles a lot faster, but it’s my firm belief that cycling on a main road is about the second most dangerous thing I can think of (riding a horse there being the first!). Cyclists on minor side roads where the traffic tends to be a lot slower I can just about cope with, but the guys and gals you see cycling along the A9 between Thurso, Wick and Inverness can only have a death wish. Particularly on twisty roads like we have in the Highlands. They also cause tail backs and frustration among drivers who are forced to follow them at 5 mph along the twisty roads. At least for the ones who have the patience to wait behind them till it's clear rather than nip round them missing their handle bars by inches..... I would love to see a cycle path all the way to Inverness, but it’s just not going to happen any time soon I’m afraid. Until then, I firmly believe they shouldn’t be on a trunk road..."

That is absolute Bollix! As a cyclist of old, sadly no longer due to health problems, I have cycled thousands of miles in the highlands of Scotland and the Western Isles on trunk roads without incident.

All it needs is for car/goods drivers to respect the other occupants of the roads and give them room and the deference due to them. I always tried to help any traffic behind me with waving on when appropriate and safe etc, and pulling in when I thought appropriate.
To say that cyclists should not be on trunk roads is absurd...and bloody arrogant IMHO!:roll:

[ducati]

Aaldtimer, think of all the people you meet on the street. They are all the same people driving cars around. You might feel comfortable literally putting your life in their hands, I will pass. :eek:

[newweecroft]

As a horse owner, I have to catagoricaly state that Horses should not be on the road. It is not the place for them, they may have been there first but like asbestos their time has gone. Even our private road is a dangerous place in the morning when the postman takes blind corners at 20mph.As people have pointed out, horse sheet is dangerous, and the lazy lasses do not clean it up!You want to hack- talk to local land owners, buy a trailer, move to a hackable location.Your horse spooks - you could die! Just so you can exercise your RIGHT to be on the road, I can't see the logic.

[Southern-Gal]

I have to say that since I moved up here I have not had an impatient or dangerous motorist past me whilst I have been out on my pony :)
Every one of them has passed respectfully slow and wide and I have thanked them properly for their consideration.
I dont agree that any one road user has the right over another. If everyone oin the road shows consideration for all other road users then there is not a problem and if any road user thinks it is acceptable to ride or drive anything in a dangerous or otherwise risky manner then it is they who should not be on the road.
Before anyone decides that horses, pushbikes opr any other road user should not be on the road they need to consider that one day they may be one of those people who other want to ban from the roads. At all times drivers are supposed to be ready for the unexpected. Children, dogs, stray sheep, deer, tractors moving slowly and turning, ponies, cattle being moved are all hazards that can be expected on the roads from time to time and if any driver does not think they should have to show consideration to them they they should not be on the road.
One day the people who want to ban 'slow' road users from using the roads might just end up relying on an electric mobility buggy for any sort of life at all. Would it be fair to state that any elderly war veteran who wants to go for a pint in his local or pay his respects in the churchyard to his dead wife should be told no?
Some consideration for other road users is all that is needed. And when you take your test to prove your competence to drive that is what you are supposed to know and use so if you dont want to have to show due consideration to all other road users then maybe it is time to stay home or walk across the fields yourself?

[highland red]

I have to say that since I moved up here I have not had an impatient or dangerous motorist past me whilst I have been out on my pony :)
Every one of them has passed respectfully slow and wide and I have thanked them properly for their consideration.
I dont agree that any one road user has the right over another. If everyone oin the road shows consideration for all other road users then there is not a problem and if any road user thinks it is acceptable to ride or drive anything in a dangerous or otherwise risky manner then it is they who should not be on the road.
Before anyone decides that horses, pushbikes opr any other road user should not be on the road they need to consider that one day they may be one of those people who other want to ban from the roads. At all times drivers are supposed to be ready for the unexpected. Children, dogs, stray sheep, deer, tractors moving slowly and turning, ponies, cattle being moved are all hazards that can be expected on the roads from time to time and if any driver does not think they should have to show consideration to them they they should not be on the road.
One day the people who want to ban 'slow' road users from using the roads might just end up relying on an electric mobility buggy for any sort of life at all. Would it be fair to state that any elderly war veteran who wants to go for a pint in his local or pay his respects in the churchyard to his dead wife should be told no?
Some consideration for other road users is all that is needed. And when you take your test to prove your competence to drive that is what you are supposed to know and use so if you dont want to have to show due consideration to all other road users then maybe it is time to stay home or walk across the fields yourself?

A very good post: well said.

[bluechesse]

That is absolute Bollix! As a cyclist of old, sadly no longer due to health problems, I have cycled thousands of miles in the highlands of Scotland and the Western Isles on trunk roads without incident.

All it needs is for car/goods drivers to respect the other occupants of the roads and give them room and the deference due to them. I always tried to help any traffic behind me with waving on when appropriate and safe etc, and pulling in when I thought appropriate.
To say that cyclists should not be on trunk roads is absurd...and bloody arrogant IMHO!:roll:

Aaldtimer,

You clearly feel very strongly about this, but Im afraid I do also, although I will resist the urge to thinly disguise swear words......

No offense, but when was the last time you cycled on a trunk road? They are very busy places, with a lot of traffic moving along at 60 mph. I certainly don't feel safe pedaling along on my push bike while lorries and buses thunder past me at high speed.
While it may be the case that car/goods drivers should give cyclists respect and room (I like to think that I always do as I know what it feels like) I have witnessed many drivers who do not. If I overtake a cyclist, I treat them like a car and don't pass until I can move completely in to the other lane. However, the majority of drivers seem to think its on just to nip past, leaving the thinnest or margins between the rider and the wing mirror...... Observing this on regular occasions only enforces my opinion that its not a safe place for a bicycle to be.

Bikes are not allowed on motorways of dual carriage ways by law due to them being an unsafe and unsuitable environment for cyclists. The speed limit and normal flowing speed of traffic on a trunk road is only 10 mph less, and they are ofter just as busy. I fail to see that they are any safer. If fact, due to the fact they normally have more bends which you cant always see round, I would argue that they are more dangerous.

As far as my opinion being arrogant, well I don't really know what to say to that. I cant see how you could think that an argument based around increased road safety for all users and the suggestion that all cycle lanes should be installed to keep everyone happy could be deemed arrogant.
But I guess that you entitled to your opinion. Next time you drive down the road in the summer, count the number of close calls you see involving cyclists, you may change your mind.

[focusRS]

I would not feel 100% safe cycling or riding a horse on a 60mph road but that's just me. I do however believe that if you wish to do so then you should be given plenty of room and respect from those driving motor vehicles. On the other hand I would welcome some form of age limit/training/test/licence before horse riders and cyclists were aloud to use roads rated at over 30mph.

[Errogie]

Horse riding on tarmac is not the most enjoyable experience and abour as much fun as trying to drive your car through a field, however sometimes it may be necessary to use a short section of road as a link to better terrain. So far as cycles and pedestrians are concerned if every motorist had to spend a week in the year using only this mode of locomotion on our roads we'd all have a lot more considerate treatment from the average driver.
Main roads can be made safer if cycle lanes are provided as standard as they are in many countries but far and away the most valuable improvement would be to make it mandatory for every cyclist, horse rider and jogger on the road to wear some day glo clothing.

My worst running experience was being hit full on by a large alsatian running alongside its owner's car coming out of the darkness with full beam headlights!

[Southern-Gal]

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/34397

[Southern-Gal]

Is not about riding right down the A9 or up a dual carriageway though is it?
We want to be able to hack out to the beach or the forest or to join other riders and make an afternoon of it. To do this we need to get about a bit, if you have to cross or ride a short distance up a busy road to do that then so be it. If drivers think it is acceptable to zoom right past a horse or a herd of cows coming down the road then soon enough they are going to be the one that kills a child or a much loved dog. Children, dogs, horses, loose cows all have a mind of their own and driving past them is supposed to be something you learned to do when taking your test. If you are too impatient to pass hazards on the road safely then you are not a safe driver and should not be on the road. You can never be sure when setting out on the road what you might meet so patience should always be needed every time you get in the car.
I think that all people who have significant accidents should retake their test, especially older people who took their test years ago as things have changed.

[bluechesse]

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/12077
You can find a petition for just about anything if you try. Amongst others, there are petitions to ban ALL modifications to vehicles, to bring back red phone boxes, and one calling for public lashings for criminals. There was one a year or so ago calling for Jeremy Clarkson to be made prime minister.
Not sure that any of these are actually a true reflection of anything at all...... Although Jezza couldn't do a worse job than the last 3 or 4 we have had.

For me, yes, it is about riding up and down the main road, specifically trunk roads. Not at all concerned about horses riding up and down quiet country roads, or in areas where you may expect horses to be (the area of Halkirk noted by the OP being a prime example). No objections at all to you crossing a trunk road either as long as you look both ways and are in control of your horsey. And by all means, hack up and down the beach all to your hearts content (But please stop to pick up your poop, I pick my dogs droppings up every time, don't see why the pony poop is any different).
I just don't think a trunk road is a suitable and safe environment for your chosen hobby.

I suppose it's a fairly pointless argument, I'm not likely to change my opinion as I cant imagine anything being said to convince me that a trunk road is a safe place for horses to be (and cyclists too I'm afraid). There are obviously those how are of the exact opposite opinion and will continue to trot up and down trunk roads regardless, and I truly hope you are never unfortunate enough to be involved in an accident, for your sake, your horses and that of the driver. The government are unlikely to bring in any new rules to improve road safety unless there's a big chunk of fine based revenue at the back of it. So we will all just continue on as before. Ride / drive safely.

[Ash87]

[QUOTE=Southern-Gal;957952] If you are too impatient to pass hazards on the road safely then you are not a safe driver and should not be on the road.QUOTE]

I think you've hit the nail on the head here Southern Gal. Respect for other road users is key and it shouldn't be a case of 'my mode of transport is faster/more powerful than yours so get out my way' - As a horse owner I do understand other motorists having the opinion that they shouldn't be allowed on the roads due to them having minds of their own, but as a driver we have to be prepared to deal with all sorts of animals on the roads (deer/sheep/cattle etc) If we could just accept that the roads are there for everybody and that yes, this may mean taking a few extra seconds to ensure that passing is carried out safely and hazards are dealt with appropriately then the roads would be a much safer and more enjoyable place.

[Kestrel]

As a horse owner, I have to catagoricaly state that Horses should not be on the road. It is not the place for them, they may have been there first but like asbestos their time has gone.

This line has just made my day! Never thought horses could be compared to asbestos but there you go :) Indeed, just to clarify, because in my opinion horses shouldn't be on the road doesn't EVER mean I would be sympathetic to or justify the actions of idiots who do not slow down to pass widely. Of course I've ridden on roads over the years and it is very frightening when some jackass revs alongside you and speeds off. You have to take care transporting yourself be it car, bike, horse, boat, helicopter, penny farthing etc! When an animal is involved the unpredictable nature of such transportation just makes it too risky in my opinion. But HAVE RESPECT for the many riders who don't share my opinion!