View Full Version : Heath Fires
I see the A99 is closed from JOG to Freswick. Smoke going over Warth Hill. Is that not were a Becon is going to be lit tonight?
The other fire is on the Castletown road & Reiss and that road is closed. Hope the fire services can cope with these two.
Wonder how they both started
Wonder how they both started
I blame that damned Olympic torch !!!
C3..................:roll:;)
annemarie482
04-Jun-12, 17:53
helicopter is here dumping on the killmister one...
its been a bad 24hours for our services who have worked really hard its no joke for them . i say hats off to them all
linda.borgie
04-Jun-12, 18:33
Overtime lol!!!
annemarie482
04-Jun-12, 18:40
its been a bad 24hours for our services who have worked really hard its no joke for them . i say hats off to them all
exactlly, and it doesnt look over yet :(
i think right now money will be far from their minds.....
Neil Howie
04-Jun-12, 22:10
hot weather hard work
13997
low risk, non causality.....
Perfect........
It is obvious from a series of serious outbreaks of heath fire in Caithness over the last few years that Highland Council needs to adopt a guidance policy for landowners on how to manage the risks associated with burning heather and other events involving fire on heathland.
These fires can burn for months underground and untold amount of damage is done, least not to climate change as peat is a fossil fuel.
buggyracer
05-Jun-12, 07:16
It is obvious from a series of serious outbreaks of heath fire in Caithness over the last few years that Highland Council needs to adopt a guidance policy for landowners on how to manage the risks associated with burning heather and other events involving fire on heathland. These fires can burn for months underground and untold amount of damage is done, least not to climate change as peat is a fossil fuel.No landowner would be intentionally burning at this time of year, it's illegal, the purpose of burning is to improve the habititat for birds, it would defeat that purpose when the birds are actualy nesting......
low risk, non causality.....
Perfect........
Seriously? I am pretty sure that every firefighters wife,husband,children,parent etc wont be thinking that way!Fire is dangerous no matter where it is!!!
Many of these fires are started by people in passing vehicles throwing out the ends of their cigarettes as they drive by or the careless disposal of glass which acts as a magnifying glass causing the very dry heather/dry materials to smoulder and eventually into a good going fire.
Years ago a driver in front disposed of cigarette by throwing it out the window as frequently done, as we drove along kept getting a burning smell which was getting stronger, cigarette end had landed on fabric in car and burnt a large hole. I ensure if I see a person throwing cigarette end it does not get blown into my vehicle.
Many thanks to the emergency services and their families for their patience and understanding when dealing with these situations.
low risk, non causality.....
Perfect........
What a stupid thing to say!! Fire is always a risk and wildlife is the casualty in this case. :(
Many of these fires are started by people in passing vehicles throwing out the ends of their cigarettes as they drive by or the careless disposal of glass which acts as a magnifying glass causing the very dry heather/dry materials to smoulder and eventually into a good going fire.
Years ago a driver in front disposed of cigarette by throwing it out the window as frequently done, as we drove along kept getting a burning smell which was getting stronger, cigarette end had landed on fabric in car and burnt a large hole. I ensure if I see a person throwing cigarette end it does not get blown into my vehicle.
Many thanks to the emergency services and their families for their patience and understanding when dealing with these situations.
I was just thinking the same thing in that it could very well be litter thrown from cars which started these fires. A drinks can etc thrown out of a car could easily cause a fire on such dry ground. So litter is not only unsightly but dangerous!
Thanks to the firefighters who work so hard to put these fires out!
It is obvious from a series of serious outbreaks of heath fire in Caithness over the last few years that Highland Council needs to adopt a guidance policy for landowners on how to manage the risks associated with burning heather and other events involving fire on heathland.
These fires can burn for months underground and untold amount of damage is done, least not to climate change as peat is a fossil fuel.
Wondered how long it would be unril the Highlasnd Council got a mention
What a stupid thing to say!! Fire is always a risk and wildlife is the casualty in this case. :(The medium to long term benefits to wildlife due to heath burning far outway any casualties that occur during the fire.
Why do you think landowners light them in the first place??
The fresh shoots of grass get to grow once the heather has been burnt and provides food for all wildlife both feathered or footed for months.
The medium to long term benefits to wildlife due to heath burning far outway any casualties that occur during the fire.
Why do you think landowners light them in the first place??
The fresh shoots of grass get to grow once the heather has been burnt and provides food for all wildlife both feathered or footed for months.
Not at this time of year when birds are nesting. :(
low risk, non causality.....
Perfect........
In what way? I'd appreciate an explanation of your thought process here, thanks.
low risk, non causality.....
Perfect........
Am I reading this correctly?
Its obvious some folk have no friends or family members involved in the Fire Service. Having numerous friends and family who are - at this exact moment - fighting the fires that have flared up again, I can assure everyone that the last place we want our sons, fathers, brothers, cousins, uncles and friends to be is out on the hill. It is hard, physical, back-breaking work, and these men should be commended for the fantastic job they are doing.
These men are physically exhausted - Those I know have spent 36 of the last 52 hours physically fighting the fires by hand. Without complaining, and with only a few hours rest, they continually head back out to continue the job they do for everyone elses safety. These men should be congratulated for their on-going efforts, not ridiculed by those who obviously find this situation funny. I personally find it a total insult to hear comments such as these from people who obvoiusly have no idea what they are talking about.
What a stupid thing to say!! Fire is always a risk and wildlife is the casualty in this case.
<snip>
Thanks to the firefighters who work so hard to put these fires out!
Liz, I understand your stance entirely and I agree with you.
This poster quoted "causality" not "casualty" however. I've questioned them in my previous post.
I walked along the beach this afternoon, it was beautiful until I noticed the palls of smoke still in evidence above Canisbay. As I type another emergency fire vehicle has just left Wick.
The firefighters should be thanked on every occasion and not ridiculed.
In response to your post Farmer....
Yes on it's own my statement does appear rather crass, it was however in response to the 'overtime!!!!!' post a few above my initial one, and was a wry quip. I know plenty firemen and given the choice they'd rather be at a hill fire than a house fire or an accident. And of course as we all know they do get paid.
Of course the fire brigade are doing a sterling job and we all understand the back breaking work that's involved but I'd like to raise a point here so that we have both sides to the story, and this came from a fireman....
The firemen arnt allowed to tackle the fire at night due to health and safety, however they still have to sit in the engines in attendance at a cost of £500 an hour per crew to the landowner. In the case of the helicopter instance, the fire was spreading dangerously close to a tree plantation, despite the best efforts of the fire crews. The landowner then requested the helicopter at his expense which can douse the fire with a 1000 litres of water every minute and a half. The chopper costs £1500 an hour and had to be flown up from Inverness but it put the fire out in just over an hour.
My point is what is the sense in having 6-8 fire engines with all the crews fighting an uphill battle they are only allowed to do in daylight when a chopper can do it in a few hours.The reason is money and beurocracy, it would be cheaper and more effective to take the helicopter in initially but the powers that be won't take it in until someone is prepared to pay, but yet are quite happy to let the bill rise and rise by charging man hours for all the firemen to break their backs beating away with rubber mats on long sticks....
You couldn't make it up.....
I quite agree, money and beurocracy are at the centre of almost every profession nowadays, and unfortunately that is another up-hill battle that is being fought in all walks of life.
It is my understanding - and again, this came from a firefighter - that although the men are not allowed to enter the heathland at night, they remain 'on watch' to ensure the fire does not threaten roads, houses, property and ultimately, life. Although, as you say, they are hampered by what most will tell you is 'Health and Safety gone mad', their aim is still the same as when actively fighting the fire, and that is to protect life and property. If this unfortunately costs money, then in my personal opinion, so be it, who can put a cost on lives?
Nobody can argue with the finances being argued here - when put into simple monetary terms, it sounds like a simple 'no-brainer' of a situation. However, when these men are on the gound, they have no idea of the overall picture within the area. By this, I mean, they have no idea where else the helicopter may be deployed, how the fire they are fighting will develop, or how the wind may whip up already extinguished areas of fire. These situations can change dramatically in seconds, and decision making in these ever-changing situations is incredibly difficult. It is the fire fighters sole aim to extinguish the fire they are fighting to the best of thier ability, not debate the politics and decision making process involved.
My point is, we should be very careful in what we say when we're not one of these firefighters directly involved in these particular situations. These guys are simply trying to do thier best to do a job they're trained to do, and the money and politics involved is the last thing on their minds. In fact, I'm sure most crews out there would agree that beurocracy and paperwork is the bane of their lives! At the end of the day, beurocracy or not, helicopter or no helicopter, they're all out there doing a job they should be commended for.
Liz, I understand your stance entirely and I agree with you.
This poster quoted "causality" not "casualty" however. I've questioned them in my previous post.
I walked along the beach this afternoon, it was beautiful until I noticed the palls of smoke still in evidence above Canisbay. As I type another emergency fire vehicle has just left Wick.
The firefighters should be thanked on every occasion and not ridiculed.
Oops should have gone to specsavers! Wait a minute. I did!
As you rightly say the firefighters are to be commended for the backbreaking work they are carrying out to contain these fires.
I'll second that Liz they are a brave, dedicated group of people and I for one would not want their job.
I quite agree, money and beurocracy are at the centre of almost every profession nowadays, and unfortunately that is another up-hill battle that is being fought in all walks of life. It is my understanding - and again, this came from a firefighter - that although the men are not allowed to enter the heathland at night, they remain 'on watch' to ensure the fire does not threaten roads, houses, property and ultimately, life. Although, as you say, they are hampered by what most will tell you is 'Health and Safety gone mad', their aim is still the same as when actively fighting the fire, and that is to protect life and property. If this unfortunately costs money, then in my personal opinion, so be it, who can put a cost on lives?Nobody can argue with the finances being argued here - when put into simple monetary terms, it sounds like a simple 'no-brainer' of a situation. However, when these men are on the gound, they have no idea of the overall picture within the area. By this, I mean, they have no idea where else the helicopter may be deployed, how the fire they are fighting will develop, or how the wind may whip up already extinguished areas of fire. These situations can change dramatically in seconds, and decision making in these ever-changing situations is incredibly difficult. It is the fire fighters sole aim to extinguish the fire they are fighting to the best of thier ability, not debate the politics and decision making process involved.My point is, we should be very careful in what we say when we're not one of these firefighters directly involved in these particular situations. These guys are simply trying to do thier best to do a job they're trained to do, and the money and politics involved is the last thing on their minds. In fact, I'm sure most crews out there would agree that beurocracy and paperwork is the bane of their lives! At the end of the day, beurocracy or not, helicopter or no helicopter, they're all out there doing a job they should be commended for.
Thanks Farmer for your very sensible response. I'm glad we agree on the most part.
On the subject of beurocracy and politics though......surly by the time a crew and engine is up from Granton-on-Spey to Caithness to help fight a hill fire, isn't it time for the powers that be to have a reality check. The fact that they had to come all that way to help fight a fire doesn't really indicate the seriousness of the fire, but I would say clearly indicates how insufficient 50-60 hardy soles beating the ground with rubber mats on long poles against changing winds in very dry heather was becoming.
The fact that the farmer requested and paid for the helicopter to do the job in little over an hour is something the fire chiefs (not the firemen before anyone jumps down my throat) should take serious heed from. How many lives are they putting at risk by simply piling more men upon more men into a spreading fire? And that's before even starting on the cover other towns etc are loosing as their engines and crew are attending a hill fire in Caithness.
The firemen deserve medals, their bosses need a rethink on policy id say.......
Well said Droopy and totally agree with your comments.
It is obvious from a series of serious outbreaks of heath fire in Caithness over the last few years that Highland Council needs to adopt a guidance policy for landowners on how to manage the risks associated with burning heather and other events involving fire on heathland.
These fires can burn for months underground and untold amount of damage is done, least not to climate change as peat is a fossil fuel.
All managers of heather moorland should be aware of the Muirburn Code, which is a published document. Season is from mid-October to mid-April, outwith bird breeding season. If regular controlled burning is not done, then the danger is that rank heather that has been allowed to grow until it dies back and becomes tall and dry, with no fire breaks, is vulnerable in summer to any stray cigarette end, discarded barbecues, picnic fires etc even bottle glass.
Unffortunately, there are large areas of heath in Caithness which are not managed at alll, and with the proliferation of wind farms on peat land, the economic reasons for controlled burning have gone on these places as well.
I don't wish to be pedantic but our good Rheghead reffered to peat as being a "fossil" fuel. The stuff I cut and burn grows at about an inch every 100 years and I've never thought of it on the fossil time scale which I always understood to be plant or animal remains found in rock from very many thousands of years ago. Coal and oil would seem to meet that description.
The firemen deserve medals, their bosses need a rethink on policy id say.......
The phrase 'Lions led by donkeys' spring to mind.
Any update on the heath fires?
The debate can wait. | would really like to hear that the heath fires are under control/extinguished.
Blackbird
08-Jun-12, 11:01
I quite agree, money and beurocracy are at the centre of almost every profession nowadays, and unfortunately that is another up-hill battle that is being fought in all walks of life.
It is my understanding - and again, this came from a firefighter - that although the men are not allowed to enter the heathland at night, they remain 'on watch' to ensure the fire does not threaten roads, houses, property and ultimately, life. Although, as you say, they are hampered by what most will tell you is 'Health and Safety gone mad', their aim is still the same as when actively fighting the fire, and that is to protect life and property. If this unfortunately costs money, then in my personal opinion, so be it, who can put a cost on lives?
Nobody can argue with the finances being argued here - when put into simple monetary terms, it sounds like a simple 'no-brainer' of a situation. However, when these men are on the gound, they have no idea of the overall picture within the area. By this, I mean, they have no idea where else the helicopter may be deployed, how the fire they are fighting will develop, or how the wind may whip up already extinguished areas of fire. These situations can change dramatically in seconds, and decision making in these ever-changing situations is incredibly difficult. It is the fire fighters sole aim to extinguish the fire they are fighting to the best of thier ability, not debate the politics and decision making process involved.
My point is, we should be very careful in what we say when we're not one of these firefighters directly involved in these particular situations. These guys are simply trying to do thier best to do a job they're trained to do, and the money and politics involved is the last thing on their minds. In fact, I'm sure most crews out there would agree that beurocracy and paperwork is the bane of their lives! At the end of the day, beurocracy or not, helicopter or no helicopter, they're all out there doing a job they should be commended for.
This sums our job up in a nutshell. Only recently where I work have we got specialist 'wildfire' teams to deal with heath and moorland fires and we no longer use the rubber mats (beaters) but it has taken the 26 years I've been a firefighter to get these new appliances and pumps. As usual it comes down to money, but they make life so much easier.
I'd just like to say that the £500 an hour for a fire appliance is a theoretical maximum charge possible for a 'non-emergency' special service call. A wildfire, however started, is an emergency and no one would be charged as such.
Any update on the heath fires?
The debate can wait. | would really like to hear that the heath fires are under control/extinguished.
Despite no-one on the forums replying, I am assured that the heath fires have been extinguished.
Thanks to all our Emergency Services and the locals who helped bring this about.
Agree with you Moira - many thanks to the Emergency Services and their families and all the locals who helped out.
Could see from front of the house a large fire outside Stornoway towards the road to Harris last night, from where the smoke is it appears to be a moor fire. We have not had anywhere like the normal amount of rain for many weeks now, ground is tinder dry.
Does not appear to be any smoke in that region this morning so hope everyone is fine, the fire is out and Emergency Services are stood down.
I stand corrected - the fire was in Lewis Castle grounds, across the bay and it is mainly heather and trees - hopefully here is a link
http://www.hebrides-news.com/fire-lews-castle-grounds-9612.html
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