View Full Version : Women and the Referendum
There has been quite a bit of discussion about the role of women in deciding Scotland's future. It is worth noting that out of all the live speakers at the launch there was only one woman - Liz Lochhead. Elaine C.Smith appeared on video but there was still an absence of women.
I was wondering what issues we women think are important in the debate about Independence. What issues are worrying us and whether those issues are different from the issues the men think are important.
Also, what turns women off politics? What would it take to engage women more in local and national politics and in the referendum particularly?
Please note this isnt about YES or NO or persuading people either way, I am just curious.
I've never understood why women need separate institutions or special consideration. If anything wouldn't having separate women only things be insulting as it insinuates that they need such consideration as if they're not able to function without the consideration, with everyone else.
I've been to some of these women in IT, Science and Engineering things just to see what they're like. If I was female I'd be insulted by them, that's all I can say.
Req! You made the first post to tell me that its a waste of time asking this because you - as a man think that women only things are rubbish?
Do you know the answer to those questions Req? Do you know what issues women think are important in the referndum? do you know what turns women off politics? Do you know if the issues are the same or different from those issues important to men?
Do you know whats important to young people? Black people? Asian people? pensioners? If you didnt wouldnt you ask?
Thats what Im doing - Im asking.
I am staying out of this one but I would just like to say that I think there ought to be a lot more Females in Politics because I think they make better politicians. In my opinion they are better thinkers and more industrious. I would like to see a another Female PM in Westminster (if we lose the referendum of course) but not another Tory one!!
Right, I will shut up now and go away (for a wee while)!!
C3...................:)
There has been quite a bit of discussion about the role of women in deciding Scotland's future. It is worth noting that out of all the live speakers at the launch there was only one woman - Liz Lochhead. Elaine C.Smith appeared on video but there was still an absence of women.
I was wondering what issues we women think are important in the debate about Independence. What issues are worrying us and whether those issues are different from the issues the men think are important.
Also, what turns women off politics? What would it take to engage women more in local and national politics and in the referendum particularly?
Please note this isnt about YES or NO or persuading people either way, I am just curious.
There was also the female singer.
Req! You made the first post to tell me that its a waste of time asking this because you - as a man think that women only things are rubbish?
Do you know the answer to those questions Req? Do you know what issues women think are important in the referndum? do you know what turns women off politics? Do you know if the issues are the same or different from those issues important to men?
Do you know whats important to young people? Black people? Asian people? pensioners? If you didnt wouldnt you ask?
Thats what Im doing - Im asking.
My point is, why differentiate, it serves no one and breeds resentment or feelings of superiority. Why not just have issues that affect people.
Because some issues affect some groups more than others. Because one size does not fit all. And because I was interested, and although i am a woman, i dont presume to know what other women think without asking them. It might be that women are concerned about the same things but unless we ask we wont know. Unless of course peopke think that women should just shut up and think what the men tell them to think. Im sure that is not true. Women's opinions, interests are vital to politics and so we should be asking what they are.
Because some issues affect some groups more than others. Because one size does not fit all. And because I was interested, and although i am a woman, i dont presume to know what other women think without asking them. It might be that women are concerned about the same things but unless we ask we wont know. Unless of course peopke think that women should just shut up and think what the men tell them to think. Im sure that is not true. Women's opinions, interests are vital to politics and so we should be asking what they are.
I know lots of women. :eek: And with very few exceptions, my sister who is a raving lefty, they are not interested and get very irritated when I interrupt their discussion about shoes with politics. :eek::eek:
You may very well think I am joking, but I am not.
John Little
27-May-12, 19:54
My point is, why differentiate, it serves no one and breeds resentment or feelings of superiority. Why not just have issues that affect people.Something about discourse groups?
I know lots of women. :eek: And with very few exceptions, my sister who is a raving lefty, they are not interested and get very irritated when I interrupt their discussion about shoes with politics.
You may very well think I am joking, but I am not.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/pinklipspinkkisses/raspberry.jpg
Thats not surprising Ducati. Its perhaps because you want to talk about politics when they want to talk about shoes. Maybe when they want to talk about politics you are too busy talking about the welding you are doing on your car to hear them. Despite the fact that there are clearly several men happy to post and tell me what a waste of time they think this thread is, none of them have been able to answer the questions I have asked. What are the issues that are important to women as far as the recerendum is concerned. Are women turned off by politics and why? Are the issues the same for women as they are for men?
There has been quite a bit of discussion about the role of women in deciding Scotland's future. It is worth noting that out of all the live speakers at the launch there was only one woman - Liz Lochhead. Elaine C.Smith appeared on video but there was still an absence of women.
I was wondering what issues we women think are important in the debate about Independence. What issues are worrying us and whether those issues are different from the issues the men think are important.
Also, what turns women off politics? What would it take to engage women more in local and national politics and in the referendum particularly?
Please note this isnt about YES or NO or persuading people either way, I am just curious.
On some forums, some women may have been willing to share their honest thoughts with you.
As a female member of this forum I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than set out my personal or political stall on the future of Scotland here.
I have my own thoughts & beliefs and will vote when the time comes. That's a fact.
Some of the replies to this thread have only reinforced my resolve to keep my opinions to myself on this subject. Not a lot of help to you, Squidge. Well done for trying. :)
I know lots of women. :eek: And with very few exceptions, my sister who is a raving lefty, they are not interested and get very irritated when I interrupt their discussion about shoes with politics.
You may very well think I am joking, but I am not.
I am gobsmacked! Hope therealducati reads this post and finds at least one stiletto to make contact with your wind pipe. ;)
Something about discourse groups?
Thank you John.
Your observation would indeed add depth to the thread.
As a female member of this forum I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than set out my personal or political stall on the future of Scotland here.
Some of the replies to this thread have only reinforced my resolve to keep my opinions to myself on this subject. Not a lot of help to you, Squidge. Well done for trying. :)
Thats a real shame Moira, however I am not exactly asking for your personal political inclinations just an indication of your experience of the issues which matter to the women you know or yourself as a woman. It might however be the same thing so I understand why you might not want to post.
Maybe if anyone has got answers that they are not comfortable posting here they could PM me. Or maybe if women think its a waste of time they could also PM me.
And Guys - thanks for ...erm .... actually... nothing. No answers at all - not even "well my wife says this, or my sister says that" just dismissive comments ( except John). Although, maybe you have just proved my point, if I cant ask for the views of women without men stepping in and taking over the conversation and if women cant post their views because they are conceerned guys here will just ridicule and dismiss them then maybe that EXACTLY why we need to ask women specifically what they think.
I know lots of women. :eek: And with very few exceptions, my sister who is a raving lefty, they are not interested and get very irritated when I interrupt their discussion about shoes with politics. :eek::eek:
You may very well think I am joking, but I am not.
I exclude, of course, therealducati who would much sooner discuss desmodromic valve trains and the relative merits of cam belts over bevel drives.
I am gobsmacked! Hope therealducati reads this post and finds at least one stiletto to make contact with your wind pipe. ;)
She doesn't do stillettos, much more likely a size 4 Alpinestars to the plums. :eek:[lol]
John Little
28-May-12, 07:25
Thank you John.
Your observation would indeed add depth to the thread.
Since you ask.
One of the most widely accepted models for how society works is the theory of Discourse groups- in other words that society is made up of groups which interlock and react with each other. These groups have 'members' who have a language, behaviour, attitudes and codes which are peculiar among themselves, often not understood by outsiders and often finely tuned with nuances which are not in the mentality of other groups.
Having these set out can often increase the understanding of matters in society by other groups who may not have seen what this group has seen - or simply not thought of it.
You can be a member of several discourse groups at a time. The barriers are sometimes hard and sometimes soft. In teenagers the barriers are hard - they can be son, daughter, friend, lover, cool gang, nerd - whatever but the groups are more exclusive which is why some teenagers get angry or embarrassed at being treated one way when they are in another mode. Like being treated as a kid in front of their friends who they wish to see them as Mr Cool.
Women are a discourse group.
Among women are emotional understandings, nuances of communication, relationships, experiences, mentalities, perceptions that are not always easily read or understood by outsiders. Within this group are other groups such as 'Mothers' who subdivide by generation.
They do not view the world entirely in the same way as men, for this Independence matter is not exclusively an objective exercise.
Therefore, given that one accepts the Discourse model as having at least some validity, which I do, it is a perfectly valid exercise to ask women as a group what their views are on Independence. It would be a useful and informative procedure.
It might be well to ask a Mod to erase the first part of this thread and start again.
Halleluyah!
Im not asking the mods to remove this thread because I dont beleive in erasing threads when you dont get the answer you want which is why I havent closed it either.
I will however start a new thread which I will word differently to try to make posting there less personal. I will leave this here and it will die quietly or people may want to add to it. Whatever they like.
I suppose gender is an odd thing to factionalise along, considering we're always being told we're equal. It's also way too general.
You very rarely see thread titles like 'Men and the Referendum' or 'Men and the Issues influencing them' and whenever anyone tries to bring this up they're laughed down.
John Little
28-May-12, 08:38
Nobody is factionalising.
Views are being sought.
We are all equal in the eyes of the law; but we are all different.
Gender is indeed general, but a convenient sub-division unless we wish to get too micro and canvass the views of smaller groups...
And maybe as men we do not investigate matters because we take things for granted?
Maybe we shouldn't.
therealducati
28-May-12, 11:17
I am gobsmacked! Hope therealducati reads this post and finds at least one stiletto to make contact with your wind pipe. ;)
I think my beloved may be trolling, given that I am a very un-stereotypical female (too old to be a girl, and definitely not a lady) and don’t own many pairs of shoes, no stilettos at all (although I may buy some just to hit Ducati with) and never, ever talk about shoes with Ducati or anyone else. Having said that, I have very little interest in politics either these days as I am finding it increasingly difficult to differentiate between the different parties.
Now if the conversation turns to animals, sci-fi or motorsport, that’s a different matter entirely,
Thanks for that therealducati. Thats part of my argument though. You arent interested in 'politics' and you dont HAVE to be - its not mandatory lol. Im sure that there are issues which concern you and I would just like to understand what sort of issues they are.... Not factionalising, not seperatism, just trying to be informed and interested.
I think my beloved may be trolling, given that I am a very un-stereotypical female (too old to be a girl, and definitely not a lady) and don’t own many pairs of shoes, no stilettos at all (although I may buy some just to hit Ducati with) and never, ever talk about shoes with Ducati or anyone else. Having said that, I have very little interest in politics either these days as I am finding it increasingly difficult to differentiate between the different parties.
Now if the conversation turns to animals, sci-fi or motorsport, that’s a different matter entirely,
Only this morning she mentioned her sparkly flip flops! :mad:
therealducati
28-May-12, 13:53
Only this morning she mentioned her sparkly flip flops! :mad:
....and what makes you think I was talking about shoes?
equusdriving
28-May-12, 14:19
Of course women have a very important and necessary role in politics, anyone who says differently is being narrow-minded and sexist, they are clearly needed to make the tea and sandwiches while the blokes sort out the real issues:lol: only joking before any ladies leave the sink to complain
.....only joking before any ladies leave the sink to complain
Don't worry... women are great at multi-tasking... No need to leave the sink to complain...
http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs24/f/2008/021/4/c/devil_laghin_by_Scotsgirl_606.gif
Even I am not wanting to post on this thread any more. Thank goodness for private messaging and Lizz and Changilass!
Even I am not wanting to post on this thread any more. Thank goodness for private messaging and Lizz and Changilass!
I agree with you Squidge, from some of the posts on here I feel ashamed to be Male and it certainly goes to show that Women are far superior to Men when it comes to sensibility! Well, not just sensibility, everything really. They don't let themselves down like Men do.
Good thread though and if nothing else it shows up just how stupid we Men are!!
C3.................:confused:~(
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