View Full Version : London mayor
silverfox57
05-May-12, 08:23
well done Boris 4 more years in charge on london,look forward to many more laughs,:Razz:Razz:Razz
Yes, Boris is the best thing to happen in politics for many a long year. Doing a grand job in London. Wish we had someone of his calibre in Holyrood. :lol:
I think John Thurso would make a great Mayor of Thurso.....He could tell a few jokes and then slap a congestion charge on the Co-Op car park!!!
C3..............:roll:;)
John Little
05-May-12, 19:21
'There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate.'And there we have, in the words of Margaret Thatcher, the essence of Conservatism.
This is the ideology underpinning what London has voted for.A denial of social responsibility in other words - because there is no such thing as society.
Selfishness elevated to a virtue.Any social democratic party has to be better than that.
'There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate.
What is wrong with that and why does it deny social responsibility? To me, that is implicit in the quote.
In fact, it discourages abandoning our social responsibilty to the state.
John Little
05-May-12, 23:14
Because of the let out clause. It all sounds glorious until you come to the bit where it depends on how much each of us is prepared to do. A lot would be quite happy to do not. To take and not put back is no basis for an equitable society.
You might give a lot to the community and I know that you do, but there,s plenty would be quite happy to reap the benefits of living in a mutually supportive community while denying any duty to maintain it. It's another of those Tory soundbites- Remember care in the community where all of a sudden it was a good idea to close lots of mental hospitals and look after people iN their own community? Sounded good but was all about keeping taxes down? Makes the unpalatable taste nice?
Any party that denies the existence of society is exactly what it's founder called it - an organised hypocrisy!
Because of the let out clause. It all sounds glorious until you come to the bit where it depends on how much each of us is prepared to do. A lot would be quite happy to do not. To take and not put back is no basis for an equitable society.
You might give a lot to the community and I know that you do, but there,s plenty would be quite happy to reap the benefits of living in a mutually supportive community while denying any duty to maintain it. It's another of those Tory soundbites- Remember care in the community where all of a sudden it was a good idea to close lots of mental hospitals and look after people iN their own community? Sounded good but was all about keeping taxes down? Makes the unpalatable taste nice?
Any party that denies the existence of society is exactly what it's founder called it - an organised hypocrisy!
I disagree, I always felt this quote was misrepresented most of the time. Society is just a word. If individuals are not prepared to contribute then truly it does not exist.
And BTW I have experience of care in the community and have to say it is much better for individuals than institutional living cut off from the rest of the community. And I seriously doubt it saves money when you see the intensive support some folk need and the dedication of the care staff.
On a side but related note, I quite liked Theo P's comment on Question Time the other night ' we (very rich people) quite like to give money away (to good causes) rather than to the tax man, that way we know it is spent wisely'
the words of Margaret Thatcher,
.
Is she the Mayor of London?
Mrs Bucket
06-May-12, 09:59
I agree with ducati on this one
John Little
06-May-12, 11:45
Is she the Mayor of London?She might as well be!
John Little
06-May-12, 12:31
I agree with ducati on this one
Then please explain to me what you are agreeing with because Duke's version of Conservatism confuses me.
Conservatism has many strands. The tolerable ones are those who stick to the central ideology of Conservatism laid down by Disraeli when he was setting the party up. Basically he identified two Britains- a better off one and a worse off one. According to him the better off ones had a duty towards the worse off in society and should seek to hep them through co-operative, state supported intervention. The idea was not to give stuff away but to pass laws to make chances more equal and set up structures in society where people could help themselves.
But in the 1980s Conservative ideology took a lurch to the right, influenced heavily by american neo-conservatives who deny the existence of society, deny the duty towards the less well-off, deeming it their own fault, and cutting public spending in pursuit of monetarist policies. Growing up at this time were Boris Johnson, David Cameron and George Osborne and it's these ideas that they believe in. London did not vote for a political decision - they voted for an image of a tousle haired buffoon who entertains them and they have a laugh at - but he's quite clever really. They'll have to live with the consequences.
Duke behaves, and sometimes talks like a classic one-nation Tory.
But he's vociferous in supporting the other type as well - like he's got one foot in each half of the Tory party.
It leads me to think that a lot of people vote Tory who don't grok the underlying beliefs.
So - is Mrs Thatcher Mayor of London? She might as well be, because it's one of Thatcher's children who is mayor. The social divide will deepen.
Who cares about the London Mayor up here, I certainly don't. We have enough problems over this side of the border to bother what that very clever but still a clown Boris, is up to.
Then please explain to me what you are agreeing with because Duke's version of Conservatism confuses me.
Conservatism has many strands. The tolerable ones are those who stick to the central ideology of Conservatism laid down by Disraeli when he was setting the party up. Basically he identified two Britains- a better off one and a worse off one. According to him the better off ones had a duty towards the worse off in society and should seek to hep them through co-operative, state supported intervention. The idea was not to give stuff away but to pass laws to make chances more equal and set up structures in society where people could help themselves.
But in the 1980s Conservative ideology took a lurch to the right, influenced heavily by american neo-conservatives who deny the existence of society, deny the duty towards the less well-off, deeming it their own fault, and cutting public spending in pursuit of monetarist policies. Growing up at this time were Boris Johnson, David Cameron and George Osborne and it's these ideas that they believe in. London did not vote for a political decision - they voted for an image of a tousle haired buffoon who entertains them and they have a laugh at - but he's quite clever really. They'll have to live with the consequences.
Duke behaves, and sometimes talks like a classic one-nation Tory.
But he's vociferous in supporting the other type as well - like he's got one foot in each half of the Tory party.
It leads me to think that a lot of people vote Tory who don't grok the underlying beliefs.
So - is Mrs Thatcher Mayor of London? She might as well be, because it's one of Thatcher's children who is mayor. The social divide will deepen.
Dude! Disraeli has been dead for some considerable time. I know you are a historian but ideas develop over time making the past less relevant to the future. And conservatism for me, in a nutshell, means using your best efforts to improve your own lot and where possible and practical, to contribute to the common good. It is not and never has been a conservative value to dodge taxes as this is the minimum you can do for the common good. I feel the people who do, and there are many and they brag about it, are definitely not conservatives (Red Ken springs to mind but he is an open goal).
John Little
07-May-12, 10:46
Marx has been dead for quite a while too. It does not follow that Marxism is dead. Jesus has been dead for 2000 years but his ideology seems to have a certain shelf life too. That Dizzy is dead is true, but I assure you that one-nation Conservatism is alive and well- its leading proponent at the moment is Ken Clark. He has about as much in common with the likes of Nadine Dorries as chalk does to cheese. Boris is not as far right as she is, but the clamouring of the Tory right to the effect that austerity is not biting deep enough is rather terrifying.
It has never been a Conservative value to dodge taxes - that is true. However it is time-honoured Conservative tradition to keep taxes as low as possible; neo-cons want to be rather more severe on that than the progressive conservatives. But the present lot wink at corporations dodging taxes, with banks and businesses paying their employees such levels that tax really does not matter any more.
Of all the strands of Conservatism around, it seems to me that the current Tory party consists of 3 warring parts; the one -nation Conservatives, the Thatcherite radicals like Cameron. Osborne and Johnson, and the neo-cons ravening on the far right who are in unholy alliance with the old Tories who are just reactionary.All in all they are not really a party at all but an umbrella under which various interest groups form conglomerates.
Err OK. Every party has its extreme fringe, that is the job of the leader to moderate. But Boris is still good for London.
But Boris is still good for London.
Is he anything to do with the Ethnic Cleansing that is supposed to be happening down there Duke. I heard somewhere that one London Borough wanted to shift 500 poor families all the way out to Stoke? In a few years time will London be rid of the poor and only the rich able to live there?
I wonder how long it will be before they are moving their poor up to Scotland and even Caithness, could we cope with that?
From what I have seen of him I don't think he has done much good for the poor of London, but then again he is Tory!!
C3.................[disgust]
Is he anything to do with the Ethnic Cleansing that is supposed to be happening down there Duke. I heard somewhere that one London Borough wanted to shift 500 poor families all the way out to Stoke? In a few years time will London be rid of the poor and only the rich able to live there?
I wonder how long it will be before they are moving their poor up to Scotland and even Caithness, could we cope with that?
From what I have seen of him I don't think he has done much good for the poor of London, but then again he is Tory!!
C3.................[disgust]
Actually, he has done a great deal for the poor of London. On the assumption the poor outnumber the rich, how do you think he got re-elected?
John Little
07-May-12, 20:53
Actually, he has done a great deal for the poor of London. On the assumption the poor outnumber the rich, how do you think he got re-elected?On a 37 per cent turnout I would imagine that a lot of folk just gave up on the ego tripping beauty contest and did not vote. Not because they do not care, but, like me, they do not see anything worth voting for.Why vote for something you feel totally removed from and powerless with.
John Little
07-May-12, 22:03
So basically Boris is mayor because about 18 per cent of Londoners voted for him.Major triumph eh?
oldmarine
07-May-12, 22:11
This thread is too political for me and since I don't have to contend with your political system will not respond.
John Little
07-May-12, 22:20
This thread is too political for me and since I don't have to contend with your political system will not respond.Lol! I think you have hit the nail on the head. My 27 years of living in London tell me that this was probably the attitude of most Londoners to this election...
Huge improvement to the capitals transport system under Boris. Contrast that with Edinburgh. I think the cities that turned down the chance of an elected Mayor have missed a trick. I don't know who the leader of the Highland council is, but I'd like to bet I would know the name of the Mayor of Wick!
Is he anything to do with the Ethnic Cleansing that is supposed to be happening down there Duke. I heard somewhere that one London Borough wanted to shift 500 poor families all the way out to Stoke?
What ethnic background renders you poor?
I'd hate to be born that way...........
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