Say What?? Eh???

[Kaishowing]

Now don't imagine that I'm disparaging Americans and and Australians and the way they choose to interpret the English language, but what I AM slightly annoyed about, and sad to see, is the way the British people are embracing the American and Australian way of speaking.
Some words and phrases are purely native to those countries, and have made their way over here through TV and film culture.....'No worries!' etc
Other words are variations of our own phrasology, but have been changed, then sent BACK!!!...... 'Goose-bumps' for 'Goose-pimples' etc (heard on the radio this morning)
Then there are the words that mean nothing really...for instance instead of saying 'got' it's substituted for 'gotten'.
Pure Americanism.
Like I said, this isn't anti-american in any way...rather anti those in britain who are actively destroying the language.
I know that if you take this complaint to the nth degree, then by rights we should still be talking with 'yay verilly' and 'gadzooks'....but that was natural progression/evolution.
Is this also?

Also, why do peple insist on using text-speak on forums when there's no reason other than laziness to do so??
Text-speak was invented when there was limited space per text, and you wished to use the short-hand to get as much information into a single text as possible.....no such constraints on a forum!

Hrumph!:lol:
Rant over.......still annoys me though![evil]

[Rheghead]

We have been speaking American, Australian, jamaican, Indian, French, latin, Dutch, German additions to English since the day dot. In fact that is what English is, a mongrel language and it is changing all the time. There will be many words which are American that you will think are 100% English. Please read 'The Adventure of English' and you will get a mini education in itself. Don't fight change, embrace it, it is a sign that our language is alive rather than dead, like Gaelic.:D

[crashbandicoot1979]

Text speak on anything apart fom a text message is definitely one of my pet peeves. Its just laziness and I find it difficult to decipher. Another thing I hate is this new trend of writing 'teh' instead of 'the'. Why????

[henry20]

I agree with you on the short text kaishowing! I used to give someone a lift to work and they would text me if they weren't needing a lift and I could never understand what they were saying. Also, so many young people (ie teenage) use it in every day use that I can't understand how they will ever pass an exam. When I was at school, bad spelling was enough to lose you marks.

Not sure I agree on the other part though - its a bit like accents, sometimes you pick up on an accent without realising.

[brokencross]

Just goes to prove how many TV programmes are imported from Australia and the U.S. AND how much influence TV can actually have on your way of life, without you even realising it.

[Rheghead]

Another thing I hate is this new trend of writing 'teh' instead of 'the'. Why????


I didn't think it was a trend, I just thought we had dyslexic orgers!:roll:

[unicorn]

I have to agree I just assumed it was a spelling error.

[henry20]

I'm with Rheghead & Unicorn - a case of the brain going faster than the fingers! :lol:

[crashbandicoot1979]

I always thought that too but my friend goes on livejournal. com a lot and a lot of users deliberately subsitute 'teh' for 'the.' Maybe its a teenage thing??? Although I agree that on the .org its probably just a typo!

[golach]

Going back to the 11th and 12th Centurys English was only spoken in approximately two thirds of this Island of ours, the other third was taken up by pure Scots (and I dont mean Gaelic) and Welsh.
So I suppose we have progressed to what English is today. In this World of ours the second most spoken language on Earth. I personally have no problems with Americanisms, I would say that is progess, I may not like it but thats life.
And in this day and age of electronic communication, we will all tend to pick up little bits of each other languages.
But I do agree I hate when I am communicated to in text speak, my G'daughters do this to me constantly :mad:

[Kaishowing]

We have been speaking American, Australian, jamaican, Indian, French, latin, Dutch, German additions to English since the day dot. In fact that is what English is, a mongrel language and it is changing all the time.

I know that, I realise that a language is a living thing that grows with time....but it's more the headlong rush to throw away the standards of just several years ago.


Don't fight change, embrace it, it is a sign that our language is alive rather than dead, like Gaelic.:D

I do embrace change, and I realise that it's inevitable even if I didn't....but is OUR language alive...or just being slowly smothered by outside influences.
As for Gaelic, that's slowly making a revival...even though you suddenly get a modern word thrown into a gaelic sentence, and it's slightly jarring to the nerves!


Another thing I hate is this new trend of writing 'teh' instead of 'the'. Why????

I'm afraid that I'm guilty of that...but it's not a trend, more a case of bad typing.:lol:


Not sure I agree on the other part though - its a bit like accents, sometimes you pick up on an accent without realising.

Not quite (IMO).....even in areas where a very strong accent is common, when english was taught in school, the grammar and spelling was standard.
If you used the word 'tonite' instead of 'tonight' in an exam, would that be a mistake? Or 'color' for 'colour'??

As things stand nowadays, where does Britain end and America and Australia begin?

[DrSzin]

The first post in this thread is one of the most interesting I've read for ages...

Kaishowing, I've always assumed you were North American! There's something about your opinions and your style of writing that jumps out at me and shouts "I'm a cultural North American". I say North American because your style is perhaps more Canadian than American but I can't quite put my finger on why. :confused

This happened with another orger some time ago and I was right on that occasion, but I guess I called this one incorrectly. However, I would hazard a second guess that you've either spent a lot of time in North America, or you've spent a lot of time with folk from across the pond.

Apologies if I've gotten ;) this all wrong.

Finally, I would be the first to admit, nay boast, that there have been huge American influences on my way of thinking and writing.

[cullbucket]

Well here's a couple of Americanisms I hope dont make it back home....
They use Drug as the past tense of Drag. - i.e. He drug his foot
and also "Winningest" I have been told that this is a strictly sports related term i.e. He is the winningest coach in NFL History....

I once had an argument with an American about how they were dumbing down the language, changing spellings to be more phonetic etc. and by the end of the argument he had me convinced that there is nothing wrong with simplifying the language at least in terms of the way we spell some difficult words....

[danc1ngwitch]

Ok here goe's... allow us ta be individual and that means if i wana say things in the way i speak then let me be... OK so far i have noticed something tho, I am from caithness and the old way is out almost and it's really not fair that WE as in caithness people ( not all ) have let our Lingo go... lmao ( laughing ma cough cough of ) <<< that is just the way of the future and it does suck but u get into a habbit and its hard ta break... so as for us caithness one's maybe instead of saying .. night we should say neicght hmmm scratchs ma chin not sure if thats spelt proper ... maybe some one can enlighten us on this subject... a die-ing thing definately...xxx

[Metalattakk]

I think the b'strdisation (oops, they don't allow that word in it's entirety!) of the English language (by the uneducated and terminally stupid people that use internet messageboards in general) means that people are becoming more and more used to what may seem trifling spelling and grammatical errors.

Take the word 'definitely' for example. People are now spelling it all sorts of weird and wonderful ways. Dancing witch above has just fallen into that particular trap herself (amongst others, I may add).

Now, people (i.e., those who spell incorrectly) may say that it doesn't matter, as long as the point gets across. I disagree.

Anyone who hasn't got the intelligence (or are just too lazy) to spell correctly, nor the ability to construct their sentences properly will ultimately struggle to communicate efficiently. This is one of the reasons that simple threads on boards like these often take a turn for the worse, ending up in nothing more than slanging matches. It's too easy to misunderstand people if they don't take the time and make the effort to convey their point properly.


Now don't get me started on 'txt spk' or these damnable chat room abbreviations....LOL! ;)

(Honestly, has anyone ever been rolling on the floor laughing their ass off? I think not.)

[Buttercup]

Text-speak is a real hate of mine too, as is the current trend of using the American form of spelling ie: nite, tonite, color etc. :mad: Are pupils not taught to spell properly nowadays? I know I can no longer be considered young but I'm not in my dotage either and when I was at school you wouldn't pass any exam with bad spelling!

[henry20]

British people are embracing the American and Australian way of speaking.





Not quite (IMO).....even in areas where a very strong accent is common, when english was taught in school, the grammar and spelling was standard.
If you used the word 'tonite' instead of 'tonight' in an exam, would that be a mistake? Or 'color' for 'colour'??

As things stand nowadays, where does Britain end and America and Australia begin?

Sorry, I was referring to the 'way of speaking' rather than the spelling. Personally I think I use good grammar & spelling, maybe not perfect, but I do my best.

Yes, in an exam, tonite and color would be marked down - in my day anyway.

It also depends how you have been taught - in 'my day' (I'm only 26) 'and' was never used at the start of a sentence, but when I re-sat my English higher this year, the tutor was unable to say if it was acceptable or not and suggested that we avoid using it.

[danc1ngwitch]

(Honestly, has anyone ever been rolling on the floor laughing their ass off? I think not.)

ops!!! oh o coarse ur right ... I for one does laugh quite a bit and yep i end up on the floor as 4 ma spellin well its mine... wink wink.. mayb a sheep but danna av ta folla...lol x[lol] ( jokin )

[Kaishowing]

Sorry, I was referring to the 'way of speaking' rather than the spelling. Personally I think I use good grammar & spelling, maybe not perfect, but I do my best.

Think it matters for both...I also am far from perfect, but also do my best.....It's those that seem to feel that any effort isn't required at all.
Phonetic spelling has it's place, for instance attempting to write in a foreign language, but when it's your own native tongue and in many instances it's just easier to spell correctly, then what's the point?
It must be a conscious decision to spell that way (for those with no learning difficulties).

As for the way people speak, there are sections of the community who think that imitating the way the guests on the Rikki Lake and Jerry Springer shows speak is the 'way to go!'

Personally, I can't understand ¾ of what they say....Not through any cultural or age difference, but through lack of decent pronunciation!

I don't suggest the entire population should be speaking like a BBC presenter from the 1950's, but then again speaking like Tim Westwood (http://www.planetbods.org/theshed/westwood/)isn't the way to be either!

Perhaps this truly is the 51st State.

[unicorn]

(by the uneducated and terminally stupid people that use internet messageboards in general)


That's a terrible way to think of yourself, after all this is a messageboard also is it not?
You shouldn't be so hard on yourself :)

[Emms]

I think the b'strdisation (oops, they don't allow that word in it's entirety!) of the English language (by the uneducated and terminally stupid people that use internet messageboards in general) means that people are becoming more and more used to what may seem trifling spelling and grammatical errors.

Take the word 'definitely' for example. People are now spelling it all sorts of weird and wonderful ways. Dancing witch above has just fallen into that particular trap herself (amongst others, I may add).

Now, people (i.e., those who spell incorrectly) may say that it doesn't matter, as long as the point gets across. I disagree.

Anyone who hasn't got the intelligence (or are just too lazy) to spell correctly, nor the ability to construct their sentences properly will ultimately struggle to communicate efficiently. This is one of the reasons that simple threads on boards like these often take a turn for the worse, ending up in nothing more than slanging matches. It's too easy to misunderstand people if they don't take the time and make the effort to convey their point properly.


Now don't get me started on 'txt spk' or these damnable chat room abbreviations....LOL! ;)

(Honestly, has anyone ever been rolling on the floor laughing their ass off? I think not.)

Ohhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!! I might be new but I am also very angry. Being unable to spell (yes that's me) does not indicate that I am unintelligent or lazy --- you are so pompouss (yes probabley spelt wrong) but have you heard of Dyslexia. Being unable to spell does not make a person stupid; making the suggestion in the first place IS STUPID!.

[pultneytooner]

We have been speaking American, Australian, jamaican, Indian, French, latin, Dutch, German additions to English since the day dot. In fact that is what English is, a mongrel language and it is changing all the time. There will be many words which are American that you will think are 100% English. Please read 'The Adventure of English' and you will get a mini education in itself. Don't fight change, embrace it, it is a sign that our language is alive rather than dead, like Gaelic.:D
Much as you'd like to think otherwise, gaelic is alive, kicking and thriving.;)

[Dreadnought]

Emms, not everyone who cannot spell is dyslexic (I have seen dyslexia used as an excuse many times. Before anyone gets on my case my other half is dyslexic, I know the real deal when I see it). Also someone whose spelling or punctuation is not up to scratch is not necessarily stupid.
What I do find irritating, as others here have said, is the use of 'txt spk' on the internet. There is no need for it and just comes across at best as lazy and at worst as plain ignorant.

[pultneytooner]

Emms, not everyone who cannot spell is dyslexic (I have seen dyslexia used as an excuse many times. Before anyone gets on my case my other half is dyslexic, I know the real deal when I see it). Also someone whose spelling or punctuation is not up to scratch is not necessarily stupid.
What I do find irritating, as others here have said, is the use of 'txt spk' on the internet. There is no need for it and just comes across at best as lazy and at worst as plain ignorant.
Try the army, they all talk in abreviations.[lol]
As for americanisms, I hate them aswell, destroying the english language, how very dare they?
Also, something I have noticed is new software packages, when you install them it asks which language you'd prefer and instead of standard english they have american english, now that really grinds my gears.[evil]

[Emms]

Emms, not everyone who cannot spell is dyslexic (I have seen dyslexia used as an excuse many times. Before anyone gets on my case my other half is dyslexic, I know the real deal when I see it). Also someone whose spelling or punctuation is not up to scratch is not necessarily stupid.
What I do find irritating, as others here have said, is the use of 'txt spk' on the internet. There is no need for it and just comes across at best as lazy and at worst as plain ignorant.

We're in agreement ; some people are dyslexic and some people can't spell (genuinely) - neither makes a person stupid or lazy.

Txt language is different matter but the original post I responded too made sweeping statement that poor spellers were either stupid or lazy. My butt they are!!!!!!!!!

[danc1ngwitch]

pulls out a sign post !!! get wid it man !!! wot wid da spellin !!!
U gettin in da hip hop in da knoooo if u knoooo wot a mean !!!
Does it really matter ??? Nope,, build a bridge...[lol] Tap's fingers awaits a response, maybe someone thinks i am stupid too...Well your probably right in your own way... I know i am not... What was that post about the village idiot :roll:

[pultneytooner]

The idiot is king in gods heaven if you believe in god.

[danc1ngwitch]

you just made me stop and think there... I hang my head... more important things in the world than basic spelling ... All the starving and abused children... Let me see how many of *US* have been abused .. yea ... a good few of us.. xx no harm intended.. no disrespect either ... you just need to read my poetry to know my life and times...

[Whitewater]

I've read through this thread with interest, no axe to grind either way, but I'm uncomfortable with "text speak" when there is no need for it. I always have tried to spell correctly (though I don't always succeed) and do my best as far as the grammar is concerned for two reasons. Firstly, that was the way I was taught at school. Secondly, all through my working life I've had to write reports, instructions, procedures etc. It was therefore very important that every thing you wrote was fully understood by workers with all levels of education, not just the clever clogs, so it was written simply, and I hope correctly.

When I'm typing on a keyboard and in a hurry I often say "fro" for for, and teh for the.(I eventually set up a spelling checker at work to follow my progress on report writing) When I see errors like that it doesn't bother me and spelling mistakes are no problem either.

People are sometimes blind to their own mistakes. Recently, there was a thread here where I made a contribution, read it through a couple of times and still got my "knickers in a twist" (Now where does that phrase come from). The good Dr kindly sent me PM asking me if I had meant "District" rather than "Regional", I had to admit he was correct. I had read that particular post through a couple of times to make sure it was correct and was unable to pick up such an obvious mistake.

That was just a small example on the importance of checking your work or getting somebody else to check it for you before going to press, otherwise a simple error like the mix up of two names could create havock.

I have no trouble with American, Australian of any other words or phrases infiltrating the English language, as somebody has already stated, the language is alive and changing all the time. Several years ago I had the pleasure of reading an old hand written minute-book from the 1750s, beautiful handwriting, easy to read, but it took me hours to fully understand the meaning as the language and words were completely different from the way we write and phrase text today.

I wonder what the reaction of someone would be if they read the threads on this forum in two hundred or so years.

[rockchick]

Well here's a couple of Americanisms I hope dont make it back home....
They use Drug as the past tense of Drag. - i.e. He drug his foot
and also "Winningest" I have been told that this is a strictly sports related term i.e. He is the winningest coach in NFL History....

I once had an argument with an American about how they were dumbing down the language, changing spellings to be more phonetic etc. and by the end of the argument he had me convinced that there is nothing wrong with simplifying the language at least in terms of the way we spell some difficult words....

Well, I'm Canadian rather than American, but I've never heard of either of these....but if they're real, well, then YUCK!!!!

[Sporran]

Well here's a couple of Americanisms I hope dont make it back home....
They use Drug as the past tense of Drag. - i.e. He drug his foot
and also "Winningest" I have been told that this is a strictly sports related term i.e. He is the winningest coach in NFL History....


Hmmm....I've been married to an American for 30 years, and have been around folk from various parts of the US for most of that time. Can't say I've heard either of those "Americanisms" so far....

[cullbucket]

I guess you dont watch the NFL..... I have yet to hear these used outside the bounds of TV

[Dreadnought]

Strange. I'm sure there were more posts in this thread..? :confused:

[JAWS]

Oh dear people, I get the feeling that I am about to throw a spanner in the works, put the cat amongst the pigeons, raise temperatures and possibly cause apoplexy.
I advise many of you to lock away all sharp objects and ensure that your roof is at a safe height.
Now you have been warned, I will inform you of the following concerning text-speak.

There are moves afoot by certain examination authorities to make text-speak acceptable in those exams which are not specific to the use of correct English.

In such subjects as History and Geography for example, if the answer ids written in Text-speak it will be marked in exactly the same way as if it were answered in correct English. A person from one of the Examination Boards was interviewed on the radio some weeks ago and defended the idea most strongly.

I have still not made a decision if I should be falling about in fits of uncontrollable laughter or screaming hysterically in fits of horror.
Then again, perhaps I should learn to accept more modern ideas such as the more ridiculous the suggestion the faster attempts will be made to implement it!

The whole things reminds me of the lunatic idea of many years ago that it was unacceptable to correct children’s spelling because it stifled their creativity.
I always interpreted that as meaning that by ignoring the faults in the system all problems were deniable and therefore did not require the moves to correct them.

[Rheghead]

What is the difference in standards if we use txt spk compared to using other well used abbreviations like cf, rsvp, iou, etc? Nothing really except oldies (i might include myself on that, but only just) find it strange and new.

[Kaishowing]

[evil]
What is the difference in standards if we use txt spk compared to using other well used abbreviations like cf, rsvp, iou, etc? Nothing really except oldies (i might include myself on that, but only just) find it strange and new.

I've nothing against new forms of language, but alot of txt speak seems to be based on laziness of the mind.
As for the other abbreviations, they were just odd words or phrases here and there, not entire sentences.


Ive Nuttin agAnst nu forms of lngwij, bt alot of txt spk sEmz 2 b basD on laziness of d mind.
az 4 d othR abbrz, dey wer jst odd wrds o frAzez hEr & ther, not entire sNteNcz.


I rest my case![evil]

[crashbandicoot1979]

What is the difference in standards if we use txt spk compared to using other well used abbreviations like cf, rsvp, iou, etc? Nothing really except oldies (i might include myself on that, but only just) find it strange and new.

Hmm, I don't class myself as an oldie (yet!) - I'm only 26 - and while I'm fluent on text speech when sending a text message, I inwardly cringe when I see it anywhere else. Some text speak abbreviations- e.g. txt for text - fair enough but an entire sentence/paragraph written that was is just mind boggling. Whats worse is the thought of text speak being acceptable in exams!!!! Thats insane! I think its important that children are taught to communicate properly and the problem with text speech is that there is no standardized set of abbreviations (at the moment,anyway), so different people may have their own interpretations of what a particular abbreviation means, which will no doubt result in confusion of some sort.

Either that, or maybe I AM getting old - as someone said earlier (henry20 I think) a spelling mistake was enough to cost us marks in an exam, whereas now if a child doesn't know how to spell a word they can just stick in an abbreviation and hey!, theres no need for them to even learn how to spell the proper word. I think thats a sad state of affairs.

[henry20]

I'm with you CB1979 - I'm only 26 too and cringe at the thought that my children (if/when I have any) will not be taught properly (IMO) if text speech is accepted as every day context.

I don't feel that school or work is the right place for short text to be used. (In fact, I very rarely use it in text and struggle to interpret texts that are - unless its b or u as they are self explanatory)

[Metalattakk]

Ohhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!! I might be new but I am also very angry. Being unable to spell (yes that's me) does not indicate that I am unintelligent or lazy --- you are so pompouss (yes probabley spelt wrong) but have you heard of Dyslexia. Being unable to spell does not make a person stupid; making the suggestion in the first place IS STUPID!.

Right, now don't get all in a gluff now, but answer me this:

You have recognised that you have trouble with your spelling. Yes? But this is not a constant state, it is a situation that can be improved upon and even 'cured'. People don't stop learning when they leave school.

So, with that in mind, can you tell me why you haven't taken steps to learn to spell correctly?

[henry20]

Emms has previously stated that she has a diploma and is managing director of a company (on another thread) and I really don't think she should have to justify anything to anyone else. In fact, maybe she can spell perfectly and thought she'd just make a point that people should not be judged on their spelling!? :lol:

Emms, you are obviously doing something right! Keep up the good work ;)

[Metalattakk]

But it's unavoidable that she will be judged on her spelling, especially when the only interaction with her is via the written (or typed in this case) word.

I just wondered why an intelligent, motivated person would not take actions to fix a problem that she has wilfully recognised herself?

[henry20]

Maybe because its easy not to? ie spell check on a computer. If a computer tells you when a word is spelt wrong or the grammar is incorrect, why push yourself to learn? Therefore, in the majority of cases, spelling can be amended before the script is distributed. My dad asks me how to spell certain words, I don't think he needs to learn anything more. He has more skills and knowledge than I imagine I will ever have!

Imagine, if caithness.org had spell check, there would be no-one to criticise for bad spelling or bad grammar.

[Metalattakk]

Maybe because its easy not to?

So it's down to laziness then? That's one of the reasons I suggested originally. ;)



Imagine, if caithness.org had spell check, there would be no-one to criticise for bad spelling or bad grammar.

Aye, and what would I do then....? :lol:

[henry20]

So it's down to laziness then? That's one of the reasons I suggested originally. ;)

Not down to laziness neccessarily (I'm almost bound to have that one wrong!) as it may be down to priorities. As you appear to have targetted Emms for responding to your original comment, I will use her as my example (you have my greatest respect by the way, Emms). A working mother, who on her own admission left school with no education, who brought up a child and worked hard to get a diploma and is now a managing director of a company has succeeded in the world through hard work and willpower. Maybe there were no 'spelling' night classes and I don't think she needed any as she has done remarkably well for herself!

Personally, I don't give two hoots if she makes the odd typo. Emms, sorry for using you as my example and for appearing to battle your corner when I don't know you. You have achieved a lot in your life and I hope you continue to do so - bad spelling or not! ;)

[Bobinovich]

I've read through this thread with interest, no axe to grind either way, but I'm uncomfortable with "text speak" when there is no need for it. I always have tried to spell correctly (though I don't always succeed) and do my best as far as the grammar is concerned for two reasons. Firstly, that was the way I was taught at school. Secondly, all through my working life I've had to write reports, instructions, procedures etc. It was therefore very important that every thing you wrote was fully understood by workers with all levels of education, not just the clever clogs, so it was written simply, and I hope correctly.

When I'm typing on a keyboard and in a hurry I often say "fro" for for, and teh for the.(I eventually set up a spelling checker at work to follow my progress on report writing) When I see errors like that it doesn't bother me and spelling mistakes are no problem either.

People are sometimes blind to their own mistakes. Recently, there was a thread here where I made a contribution, read it through a couple of times and still got my "knickers in a twist" (Now where does that phrase come from). The good Dr kindly sent me PM asking me if I had meant "District" rather than "Regional", I had to admit he was correct. I had read that particular post through a couple of times to make sure it was correct and was unable to pick up such an obvious mistake.

That was just a small example on the importance of checking your work or getting somebody else to check it for you before going to press, otherwise a simple error like the mix up of two names could create havock.

I have no trouble with American, Australian of any other words or phrases infiltrating the English language, as somebody has already stated, the language is alive and changing all the time. Several years ago I had the pleasure of reading an old hand written minute-book from the 1750s, beautiful handwriting, easy to read, but it took me hours to fully understand the meaning as the language and words were completely different from the way we write and phrase text today.

I wonder what the reaction of someone would be if they read the threads on this forum in two hundred or so years.

OMG, there are 2 of me! [lol]