View Full Version : Chained and padlocked right of way - help please?
The council in Western Isles where I live have chained and padlocked a right of way into the local cemetery - this was supposedly to stop dogs disrupting funerals and stop dog mess!
There are 3 other gates - two drive in gates from the main road and a large gate into the old cemetery.
The gate which has been locked for several days at least, is approached by the footpath along the shore from where I live and where many people will walk out from town to visit friends/relatives graves.
I have approached the leader of the council and another person from the council - one informed me on Wednesday the gate would be open on Wednesday, the leader of the council visited on Thursday evening and assured me the gates would be opened on Friday (until after the elections) and confirmed it was a right of way as his father who is in his 90s used this path as his route to primary school (before this path became part of the cemetery road).
The council have been advised by their legal team they have to open the gate but this has been refused!!!!!!!
Any person know who I can contact re Scottish Law on getting them to open these gates.
My neighbour who is well over 80 had trouble trying to visit her husband's grave on the anniversary of his death due to gates being chained and padlocked.
Sounds like a job for a good quality pair of boltcroppers Pat!!!
Dont bother with the law stuff, just go and get the gate open, they cant do you for it!!!!
Good luck!!!
C3......................:eek::roll:;)
Will not do that as I could then get charged with damaging council property but have certainly thought about it.
I want the council to understand that they cannot do what THEY like, the council have to abide by the law of the land and find a proper answer to their problems.
Nick Noble
21-Apr-12, 20:10
Hi Pat, my first port of call would be my MP or MSP if they are any good. Do they hold regular surgeries? If not phone them at westminster/holyrood. They should be able to appeal to the councils better nature, or failing that point you in the right direction for proper legal help.
Post again if you can't get them to do anything and I'll suggest some other actions, but they should be your best course of action.
Highland council banned dogs from Thurso cemetery and a friend who'd been walking through there with her dog and tidying up as needed for 30 years entered into a long correspondence - the upshot of which was that the council official withdrew the ban and confirmed it in writing. I'll get her to pm you.
Thanks, davem! Yes, Pat, I've pm'd you and can give you the details of the legislation. They'll give in eventually because they are in breach of the law. That said, no-one else in Caithness seemed particularly bothered because here it was only dogs that were banned, so when the council official phoned me and said "you are within your legal rights to walk your well behaved dog through the cemetery as long as you clean up after it... but we'll leave the signs up anyway, to prevent it becoming a dog toilet - just walk past the signs because you are right, they're not legally enforceable!" then I kind of gave in and rather selfishly allowed them to leave their illegal signs up. I think I was the only person inconvenienced by them.
In your case, the outrage should be much more public because everyone's access has been restricted. Completely illegal. Just make sure that, when they open it up, they don't stick another illegal "no dogs" sign on the gate because that's illegal, too! Lol.
Best of luck. :)
No dogs signs are the same??? - well there's 4 main gates, with different dog access signs.
One says no dogs, one says guide dogs only, one says dogs under control and the other gate no sign.
I know the council cannot do this and the convener of the council has been advised by the legal department they are not allowed to chain and padlock but has ignored this advice and refuses to aloow gates to be opened, others are too frightened to go against this person.
Bullying is rife.
I will only go the legal and correct way, no underhand or illegal way to make the council realise they have to do things correctly, not the easiest answer but they must consider the repercussions of their illegal actions.
As a pm stated the council have used a cheap sledgehammer to crack a nut.
oldmarine
22-Apr-12, 17:41
Take steps to ban one species - dogs and it creates problems for another species - humans. Difficult to do one without affecting another.
I want this gate opened to enable my elderly neighbours access to their friends/families graves.
At present I have not thought about dogs being allowed in cemetery but the councils attitude in stopping people having access via this entrance, due to the councils inability to control the dog situation with their dog warden and other legislation they have.
r.rackstraw
22-Apr-12, 21:50
I suggest you contact the Local Access Forum, even though it is a council body.
See http://www.cne-siar.gov.uk/countryside/index.asp
Thanks - did that earlier, advising them of what has happened and if chain and bolt not removed by am Tuesday I will be getting in touch with SNH, MP, MSP and the press to show how Western Isles council are breaking and ignoring the Laws of Scotland.
If this council expects its citizens to be law abiding, the council has to be seen to be above breaking/ignoring the law of the land.
Nick Noble
23-Apr-12, 05:39
Thanks - did that earlier, advising them of what has happened and if chain and bolt not removed by am Tuesday I will be getting in touch with SNH, MP, MSP and the press to show how Western Isles council are breaking and ignoring the Laws of Scotland.
If this council expects its citizens to be law abiding, the council has to be seen to be above breaking/ignoring the law of the land.
Pat, the other thing that would be well worth doing is get in touch with all you current councillors, and all the candidates and let them know that you will be contacting the media if it's not resolved by 1st of May. I think that may well concentrate minds!
John Little
23-Apr-12, 08:10
I advise caution.
Removing the padlock and chain is probably unlawful.
On the other hand, as this case involving Highland Council shows, the interpretation of the Access laws is by no means a certain outcome in law. You could end up with egg on your face.
http://www.scotways.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=278:scotways-court-cases-update-april-2009&catid=37:court-cases&Itemid=70
I advise caution.
Removing the padlock and chain is probably unlawful.
Yes it probably is John but they have to find the person who has done it!!! Peeing up the side of sheds in Castletown is unlawful but people still do it!!!
I am sure the council would soon get fed up of providing new locks and chains every few days.
C3..............:roll:;)
John Little
23-Apr-12, 08:52
Probably - but it would depend on how much you want a chat with the Polis...
I have approached my councillor, who happens to be the leader of the council (he is usually seen speaking to the press outside the council offices), he was the person who visited me on Thursday evening and promised the gates would be open in the morning but he has been over ruled by the Convener of the Western Isles council! My councillor had been away from the island when I first contacted him on Wednesday but returned on Thursday and he did visit as his assistant advised on Wednesday.
A council employee had told me on Wednesday the gates would be open on Thursday but they were not opened.
Gates now OPEN - probably until after the elections, but pity help them if they attempt to block that entrance. again
My local councillor is the leader of the council, he only got in last time after several recounts - think he got in by one vote, have spoken to several people this morning, he has lost the vote of many of the locals who have asked him to get the gates open as it has stopped them visiting their relatives graves.
Wonder what the votes will be this time - when he visited me last Thursday night he said he would get the gates opened on Friday, until after the elections and then it would be up to the next committee!!!!
I did not realise the gate has been locked for over 2 weeks as I have been off the island - but since I have started he realises I mean business and could quote the Right of Way and Country Access code which applies in this case.
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