View Full Version : Caithness Heat and Power
I see in the Courier yesterday that some Councillers had their chests puffed out over the 100th property to sign up to the Wick Heating system .They were all smiles for the camara and no doubt hoping it will improve there public standing .What poppycock , the system this 100th householder signed up to is a FOSSIL fuelled (GAS OR OIL) and not WOOD as promised or the grant was given for ,naughty bad councillers ..
Its a sad state of affairs when a Fossil fuel burning boiler has to stand in for the so called £ 5 MILLION FLAGSHIP BIOMASS PROJECT...Fair play to the Distillery for helping out ,but surely questions should be asked if the people in charge of the project should now be replaced .
This was a project started from a idea put forward by others only to have it taken away and replanted in Wick .
QUESTION:
Got your woodfuel supply sourced yet ???????? or will it be household waste that you will be burning
Is it not burning wood then - i thought it was a renewable energy thingie
I thought it was going to be biomass fuelled by burning wood chips? When did it change to fossil fuels?
Hi there .I phoned the Wick heat and power company and spoke to the a very nice lady said that there was no one there to answer question .She did however say that the woodfired system would not be up and running to February or maybe later but they were getting heat from the distillery .But she did not know if it was gas or oil ... There seens to be lots of wages being paid and NOT much work .....Its GOOD to see that a Wick company is helping with the pipework ...KEEP it local..
Bill Fernie
09-Nov-06, 23:26
I think Dozy is bit quick to say councillors are misleading over the new home linked to the new Heat And Power Scheme now being constructed in the Pultenytown Area of Wick.
Currently the new sytem is being supplied with heat from the Old Pulteney distillery until the new boiler house and wood store is built at the back of the distillery. The boiler house wil no tbe ready until about Feb/Mar 2007.
It is hardly misleading as the eventual heat will come from wood. the main change is that the wood chip will now be put into a gasefier and not burnt directly as originally planned - things move on all the time. the new sytem will get more heat out of the wood than burning it directly apparently - I am no engineer - we take advice.
The project is £3.5 million and this comes from a £2million from the Council over 10 years and £1.5 million from the DTI.
Pulteneytown was chosen for numberof reasons not least of which being that it is one of the areas listed on the Index of Multiple Deprivation. As councillors we agreed that an area with extreme levels of poverty could well do a heating set up that might allow them to control their heating costs and snure that many folk elderly, disabled etc as well as poor families might have a secure and affordable source of heat and hot water.
About two years ago we began to hear presentations from the experts after our econimic development manager Elizabeth Marshall put together some of the ideas on how the funding might be put in place. These things are mix of presentations, ideas, debates, discussions and many people were involved at the start before councillors agreed to go ahead with the scheme.
Personally I thought it was well rounded venture supplying a much need heating system to many low income households in Wick. Later it is hoped to expand the sytem across other parts of Wick and to include many council buildings and businesses. Schools and others could well benefit if we can stabilise their heating costs that are currently soaring with rcent increases in powerprices. It might have come not too soon as Highland Council has seen its power and heating costs rise by almost £2million per annum.
I am not sure who Dozy thinks is being paid lot so money as the scheme currently only employs a manager and an adminstrative assistant. The main building work is being carried out by contractors.
It is easy to see why Dozy might have misconstrued what is happening but there is nothing wrong in getting the sytem up and running beofre the boiler house is ready especially when one of the main partners - the distillery has the capacity to provide temporary source of heat until the boiler house is ready. The distillery will be one of the beneficiaries of the new scheme.
Wood sources are still being investigated. this is commodity where prices are subject to change and prices will vary both here and abroad. Certainly it has beenhoped to buy wood from the forests on the west of Caithness and North Sutherland. but that will dpend on price and availability. The Forestry Commission has been carrying out drying tests on trees to see what happens in the Caithness weather. Amazing amounts of moisture have to be evaporated from the wood and amazingly the trees have lost huge amounts even in the wettish Caithness air. Results of the tests may affect how the wood is stored etc. Ihave yet to see reports on the how the tests are going.
The project is new and there have been some small glitches but all have so far been overcome as in most projects.
Not sure who the project was taken away from and planted in Wick. As to rubbish being used - that has been looked at and in the future a rubish incninerator might be added if another source of heat is needed. the one in Lerwick that burns rubbish was visited to see how it worked and the problems. there do not appear to be any except that you need an awful lot of rubbish. that is anothe rpossibility as the cost of dumping rubbish to landfill continues to rise and we will be keeping an eye on tha as another possibility for later expansions.
As councillors of course we get advice from officials and experts from outside the council. what we have to decide is whether to go ahead or not. Perosnally I like my fellow councillors have been very enthusiastic about this scheem fro the start. I seee it as another plus for Wick and has created local work and hopefully will continue to do so.
the main change is that the wood chip will now be put into a gasefier and not burnt directly as originally planned - things move on all the time.
Bill,
I apprectiate what you are saying regarding the fact that projects of this type are fluid by their nature but if this is true and woodchip is being used as an enhancement to a fossil fuel (gas) rather than the primary heat source then dozy has a valid point since CHAP is not a truely biomass project.
Bill Fernie
10-Nov-06, 00:25
Gollach you have it wrong. It is not an enhancement to a fossil fuel like gas. I am not an engineer and will have to hunt up the full explanation. The wood chip is to be heated and itself turns into some sort of gas in the process. It will still be the wood that is being burnt and not any other source once it is in place. The gasification of the wood chip apparently allows much higher temperatures to be achieved and more heat for a given amount of wood fuel.
It is we are told a much more technically efficient system than what was being looked at when we started.
So it is still wood and not oil or gas. It remains a biomass project. Dozy has introduced wrong information based on a misunderstanding or mis-reading of the information in the press. Perhaps it is the confusion between the heat source currently being used - which is temporary and what the final heat source will be when the project is completed.
The boiler house is being contructed to size that will allow for expansions to the area of the town that can be connected - always assuming that the first phase is a success.
We looked at other schemes before going ahead and heard from places where they were operating. It is not completely new and we had the evidence from Aberdeen and Lerwick to look at where district heating schemes are in place.
We were presented with a huge amount of data before we made any decisions and the councillors agreed to set up the company - Caithness Heat And Power. At the start it was to have been Wick Heat and Power but we decided to change it to avoid the problems of setting up another company if we wanted to go into other places like Thurso, Lybster or Halkirk. No guarantees that it will but we wanted to keep our options open.
My main fear from the start was that the company did not own any of the fuel sources. This might leave us open to the volatilty of the market but as yet we have not manged to acquire the funding to purchase our own forests and this may not be the best option as you would have to deal with the problems of logging and chipping and the main view has been that buying it on the market or under contract would be the best. There has been a lot of discussion by officials and the experts on the best way forward with regard to the fuel source. If you fgo down the route of acquiring your own you then have to deal with obtaining and using the very expensive machinery and this also has been looked at including the potential suppliers and costs. Far more has been gone into than has appeared in the press as it probably too mundane for a story about all the things you reject before reaching the final decisions. But that is true of many things that the council does or indeed any company before it chooses a particular course of action.
I think more people are beginning to realise that the scheme is offering very good value for the price they are being asked to pay as sign ups are in excess of two hundred and rising. The 100th house may have been linked but it will double in the next few weeks and I expect reach over 300 in a few months. The pipe work is now in many streets and new homes can be linked in.
I thanks Mr Fernie for his reply,but we need to put the record straight. The idea for a CHP was PRESENTED to the council or should i say councillers, and was EVEN posted in the local and national paper over 7years ago .The project was put to the council funding agency in Wick and i was promptly told that there was NO funding for such projects as the council sees no commercial value in using wood (biomass) as a heat source in Caithness.
(You mention the Forestry Commission reseaching drying the wood,well they are a bit late to the game .You could say their barking up the wrong tree.
After 4 years of research into the drying of the wood material ,we came up with some new drying machinery that got the moisture content to below 10% for no additional energy input .You see the dryer the wood ,the better the burn ,the better the heat transfer and a reduction in ash .)
After submitting the proposal and getting the knockback .I was somewhat surprised to find the Council were now to run with the idea using the project more or less as i proposed .( Naughty Council)
As for the placing of the scheme, Pulteney is far from being the best place but it has its merits .
The Project that was put to the council allowed for the processed woodfuel to be used in boiler systems placed in Schools, Swimming pools and building with a high demand for heat .
The processed woodfuel is know as ******* it can even be used in open or enclosed fires so allowing those not lucky enough to be on the hot water system to heat their homes .
I do hope its not a TALBOTTS boiler that you are installing ....
So when you say its a great idea ,MANY THANKS .I'll take it as a complement.
As for the funding of the project and the limited staff of 2 its good to see your keeping a close eye on things and keeping the public informed.
The problem comes when you devide the £5 Million by the 100 people signed
up so far ,Thats £50,000 per house plus theres the running costs (charges)
.If you charge householders a tenner a week per home ,thats only £1000 that will not even pay for the wood never mind the running costs of the plant ,engineers and maintenance plus rates etc. Please try to square the circle..
Yes i know that the distillery will come on stream and a few others.So far it been a poor show for how CHP should help the community .
Please dont say its a learning curve ,because it a curve you cant afford.
Mr Fernie ,i cant tell if you knew about the project that i put forward or not ,but this i do know someone somewere in the Wick Heat Company did .
I did ask for my proposal back ,but was told that it had been shredded.
Mr Fernie as for you not being an Engineer ,that OK i have been one for over 32 years and Yes its been in the power industry.
If you have questions i will be happy reply ????
Bill Fernie
10-Nov-06, 02:19
Thanks Dozy
I was not aware of the earlier scheme you speak about as I only joined the council three and half years ago. Possibly there was not the funding available in an earlier time.
The costings you suggest are not the ones that the scheme will end up at. The boiler house is being constructed to be able to expand the system to other parts of Wick and will hopefully eventually include several schools, swimming pool and many more.
As the numbers of users goes up so the unit costs will come down.
I am not sure where you are getting £5 million from but I do not think that people usually count the cost of the power station producing electricity in their calculations when choosing an electric fire. I can see the principle you are getting at re invesment per household but you really neeed to have the end number that the boiler house will service once the project is fully up and running rather than just the first few households connected to the system.
There will be return on this capital investment and that will be part of what is available for the expansion of the scheme. A look at the first accounts when they are published should make things clearer.
I assume that gasifying the wood chip was not considered in your earlier scheme - but correct me if I am wrong. Do you have any knowledge of this system of burning wood?
On a technical point, it seems that the wood is going to be operational eventually but it will need a back up system in place for outage probs like cleaning and maintenance. Will this initial fossil fuel temporary measure be used for the back up?
Mr Fernie .The answer is YES .The process you mention, GASIFICATION and its big brother PYROLYSIS have been touted around for years .
The problem with these type of technologies is that they are complicated to run on a small scale and have all but been abandoned ,by anyone with an eye to the Environment.
So lets get techincal.
GASIFICATION :Is the decomposition of organic material (in this case wood )at an elevated temparture in a Oxygen restricted environment.The process requires initial heat to get things started .The breakdown of the timber produces a mixture of COMBUSTABLE GASES and CHEMICALS .Primarily METHANE,complex HYDROCARBONS,HYDROGEN and CARBON MONOXIDE ...This process will need to be strictly monitored and the proper licence grant by SEPA .
It is a costly way to produce electricity and could be an environmental disaster if things go wrong .Not the one for the middle of a housing scheme .
Now its big brother .
PYROYLSIS :This is basically the same process but with the absence of OXYGEN ,and the chemicals produced are nasty .
Mr Fernie .The funding was there but only for the chosen few .
You see its the fuel thats the key to the process ,the better the fuel the more efficient the system becomes and the cheaper it is to run .
When you put forward a project like CHP you must have done your homework ,its not all about pipes and boilers .Its the fuel supply for 25 years that you have to work to (thats how long it take for a tree to grow to be of any use ).how far has it travelled ,it all adds to the costs and to the C02 produced .
I spoke to local farmers and i was the one that had talKs with the RSPB about the trees at FORSINARD.All the fuel can and must be produce LOCALLY, or the project is a non-starter .Taking wood from Finland is a nonsense,Were's the Envrionmental benefit in that and theres no long term Jobs being created locally
Remember YOU have taken on a committment to the people you are supplying with heat and maybe power when you started the CHP project and SORRY! but the heat is off today will not good enough.
From what you are saying i think you could have bought one of Bobby Talbotts Boiler Bolt-on Kits (its a bit like buying a LADA ) theres better boilers
Question:.
Will you be using the Distillery boiler as a backup / stand in for maintanance
or are you planning three boilers from the start ...
You should have asked the people that KNOW about CHP, and NOT the people that say they know.....
Its not the amount of customers you have ,its how happy they are with the service .........
now this is getting interesting,
Dozy what are the environmental benefits from this project?? especially if one produces nasty chemicals and the other, if went bang , would do so big time??
Niall
Has the issue in creating jobs and keeping jobs local regarding the timbers been addressed? To import timber would make no sense wotsoever as the pollution created in transportation alone would contradict the new heating systems being created????
As Caithness and Sutherland are inudated with large supplies of Peat, Water, and wind, one would have presumed that any of these three factors would have been utilised instead of Timber. Timber must be grown at a certain rate to sustain any heating system, whereas, water, peat, and wind are in plentiful supply here in the Highlands.
Rubbish re-cycling is also another form of being able to generate power/heat, once it has been sorted and the relevant factions removed and recycled and is environmentally friendly.
As regards to Counsellors and Council being a bit "naughty", we all know about politicians don't we?
Can you name the last politician that did anything worth-while for the community/society in the last 20 years?
Ciao, :cool:
More smilies please! :roll:
Humerous Vegetable
10-Nov-06, 15:11
Can you name the last politician that did anything worth-while for the community/society in the last 20 years?
Ciao, :cool:
More smilies please! :roll:[/quote]
Well, Donald Rumsfeld resigned the other day. Maybe some of our local councillors will take the hint.
" You know when a Politician is lying, when he/she opens their mouth! ".
More smilies please...
Regarding Rumsfeld, being a Politician, well thats debateable isn't it.
Whats your opinion of a good politican?
Ciao, :cool:
Well Bigjjuk .If the project is put together the right way for a start the benefits for the Local Community can be excellent .
What type of CHP do you want and what can the local environment provide in sustainable fuel.
Questions are :
What timber is available and were .
Planting of new trees (were and how many)
Can farmers help fill the fuel gap and make money.
Is there spin-off business that could benefit from the heat and power .
Can local woodwaste and cardboard be used ,instead of shipping it 300 miles south or going to Seater
Will the locals see a personable benefit from the scheme ,that is will their energy bills drop or at least be more stable .
If the electricity is produced locally why is it not being used locally rather that being sold off to the grid (yes there are questions on this )
Then its JOBS ,
Plant engineers ,office staff ,tree fellers-planters ,drivers, processers etc. they all need paying and that falls to the CHP customers .
The CHP should be the HUB and the benefits from the spin-off business are as many as spokes on a wheel ,and that all leads to jobs .
As far as the CHEMICALS that are cracked off by GASIFICATION .That will be the operaters problem ,but i wouldn't want them in they garden .. thats for sure ..
If you want more info on the chemicals produced by the Gassy process drop me a PM.
By the way i my helping a group in England that are under attack from a German /dutch company that are pushing for a PYROLYSIS plant to process some very nasty waste ....(please no german jokes)
Humerous Vegetable
10-Nov-06, 16:27
" You know when a Politician is lying, when he/she opens their mouth! ".
More smilies please...
Regarding Rumsfeld, being a Politician, well thats debateable isn't it.
Whats your opinion of a good politican?
Ciao, :cool:
He was US Defence Secretary and George Dubbya fall guy; I guess that makes him fairly political. A good politican is somebody like Disraeli or Ramsey MacDonald....ie: dead.
Another question for niall
If timber is to be used and will be up and running in FEb 2007, why are we not stock piling timbers now????? I see plenty down at the harbour which " I gather" is going on boats to distant lands. Shouldnt we be keeping this??????
If Rumsfeld had been a "good" politician, then they would have kept him, unless you look at him as the "whipping boy" or the "token gesture/sacifice" and who was offered up to appease the masses...
More smilies please...
Ciao,
Humerous Vegetable
10-Nov-06, 17:52
If Rumsfeld had been a "good" politician, then they would have kept him, unless you look at him as the "whipping boy" or the "token gesture/sacifice" and who was offered up to appease the masses...
More smilies please...
Ciao,
I don't think I said he was a good politician. What's the point of asking questions if you don't read the answers?
You say potato I say pot8o :lol: point taken :eek:
More smilies please...
Ciao,
I agree its crazy ,that Wick Heat and Power dont have security of supply for the wood they are planning to use .You would think that was one of the first things on their list ,No wood ..No heat and No customers .
The Company seem to think that the price of the wood available will stay low ,but its a supply and demand power chain and the price only goes up .
So if your planning a real Christmas tree this year ,dont through it out after Newyears as the Wick Heat and Power Company may need it and will nodoubt pay you more that in cost .Who said that theres no money in waste ...Give your counciller are ring and see if their up to the Recycling and Environmental Challenge.....Wood should not be Wasted ..Nor should Taxpayers Money..
I have a question for those in the Wick Heat and Power Company .
How many tonnes of wood will the CHP comsume in a DAY ????????
Can any of the Boardmembers of the Caithness Heat and Power Project tell me what contribution in monitery terms came from the Pulteney Distillery .
Mr Graham Macwilliams ( pulteney distillery)said " the power from the Wick CHP will reduce energy costs by 50% " ...
Will these saving be at the taxpayers expense (the projects capital costs) or will the customers of the community heat scheme end up paying for the Distilleries savings ????
If the distillery had forecast reducing it energy costs by such a huge amount ,why have the boardmembers not secured a multi-million pound contribution by the Distillery.
This money could have been used to offset the installation costs to all those on the heat scheme..The complete wet central heating system could have been free to every home ....
It's time Caithness had a decent sized Coal Fired Power Station with an Oil Fired one as backup!
The Capital Costs should be met by an additional Tariff on each unit of electricity used in the County for money borrowed to cover those costs at any current interest rate at the time until the full amount is repaid.
That way, should the money be borrowed from Public Funds, the tax payers will be fully reimbursed.
With the introduction of the quarry at Borrowston as the chipping centre of all the wood to be used at the CHP .Will any CHP boardmembers answer the question being asked ,and here is a few new ones .
1)
What fuel will be used at the plant to run the machinery needed to process to timber .
2)
Why was the quarry picked for the processing and what qualifications does the operator have in the processing of wood as a fuel .
3)
What drying technology is to be used.
4)
How much CO2 has been expelled by the project to date .
5)
How much CO2 will be saved in the year ,when set against the cost of running it...
TO DATE NO BOARDMEMBERS HAVE COME FORWARD WITH ANSWERS ..
Dozy i dont think u will get a reply, they only show their faces when its a good thing IE " agreats energy providing product which is good for the environment" and they are all there in hoards
I have similar problems. I phone Buckingham Palace regularly and the Queen has never returned any of my calls.
I've even offered to let her reverse the charges but to no avail! [lol]
If your are hoping for a reply from the Palace ,why dont you stand for the council and become part of the CAITHNESS ROYALTY.They got in by using the backdoor (no punchlines please ) .If You want to know what backdoor to use ask a councillor they have been up every backentry in the county......What councillor give you the QUEENS number...
JAWS:We've got a New Gasworks backed up by an OIL one at Pulteney ,progress is a great thing ....
I see from todays P&J that Mr Sinclair of Stirkoke Mains has been appointed agent to source ,process and deliver wood chip for the plant from a new base at the old Borrowston Depot .
The problem is that .
I did not see any ARTICLES in the local press asking for Tenders to provide this service, by the CHP board.
Is there not already business in Caithness engaged in the woodfuel chain .(WHERE THEY APPROACHED FIRST).
Will the funding for this, be provided by the Heat Scheme or will CASE have to cough up more taxpayers money
What expertise has Mr Sinclair in the procurement and processing of timber for fuel .
This project is just one surprise after another, I do hope this is not just another job for friends and family of boardmembers .
Maybe there should be an inquiry into the handling of the whole project .
The only good thing to come from the woodfuel contract is at least it was kept local.....
With the announcement of the new CHP going in at Invergordon the price of wood has already gone up as the owners secure longterm supplies......
Niall Fernie
16-Nov-06, 15:28
Dozy, could you please elaborate on your previous post?
bigjjuk, you seem to be asking me questions. Why?
Niall
You seemed to be representing the council at the beginning of the thread and therefore I thought you had knowledge about this, If I am am wrong then I apologise for this.
I also agree with Dozy that a contract normally start with a tendering process, How is this NOT the case this time????
Niall
You seemed to be representing the council at the beginning of the thread and therefore I thought you had knowledge about this, If I am am wrong then I apologise for this.
If you read through the thread again, you'll find you are wrong.
Niall Fernie
16-Nov-06, 16:05
If you read through the thread again, you'll find you are wrong.
Nothing like paying attention to the facts eh?
fair enough, but i admitted it and apologised, no need to point things out and be rude
fair enough, but i admitted it and apologised, no need to point things out and be rude
Rude who's being rude?:eek:
You did say "if i am wrong" which you were.
Mr Fernie .
Elaborate ! the post is asking question of how and what procedure was used in the granting of the contract or contracts for the purchase and processing of the woodfuel .I am asking who did what, where and when and for what reward ...Plain enough ???? and will more taxpayers money be used to fund it .
Mr Fernie if you are a boardmember for the project you will be nodoubt aware that once the timber is chipped it will be subject to fungal attack ,these infections can lead to very serious health issue.The timber itself can and will carry fungal spores along with insect and faecal material from birds and other animals...
This type of processing can be hazardous and not for the amateur..
Mr Fernie i have great respect for people or Councillors who will stand up and be counted and answer the tricky questions .You are the ONLY councillors that has that sense of respect .
Asking these types of question shows if the project has been well thought out or was it a project sold to you for others gain ..
If the project had been a Community Heat Scheme that would provide cheap heat and hot water to those in need ,that would be great but the money is in the CHP side and thats the problem ...If the board can't see it they should resign ...
Bill Fernie
16-Nov-06, 18:46
There is an awful lot not being said in this thread and unfortunately contributors who might have been involved in early discussions with the council officials and who feel aggrieved about not getting work or contracts.
For the record I am not director of Caithness Heat and Power.
Also it appears that Dozy is confusing my son Niall's posts as if they were my own.
Some of the questions posted here are highly unlikely to get an answer from the board or the coucillors involved. They appear to be asked as part of some sort of vendetta. If you really want answers to the questions it is quite simple - write a letter to the Caithness Heat and Power manager Alex Kenny or to the chairman of the board. It is possible that they never read this message board and in any case they do not conduct business in that way - nor would any other company or public body. Again I question the motives of the questioner in the manner in which they are asked and on a public message board. If the idea was to open some discussion or debate on the merits of a particular method of supplying a stable heat system to homes in Wick and perhaps other places in Caithness then some of the points could be made here. However as they are obviously written in a highly critical manner without much fact or information it does not suggest that this is the purpose of the entries.
On the point about the advertising of the contract to supply wood chip etc I have made enquiries and been advised that the contract was advertised in the John O'Groat Journal and the Official Journal of the European Union - see http://www.ojec.com/ I am not familiar with contracts for public supply but it only took me about 60 seconds to find out about procurement in EU countries. All public contracts of certain type and value must be advertised there.
If anyone posting here did not see the ads then it may be that they are unfamiliar with the way contracts are advertised for tender. Apparently nine other firms saw the ads and submitted tenders. Two were called to make presentations to the Caithness Heat and Power Board members and one was finally chosen.
To make suggestions of some sort of collusion and references as suggested by Dozy - "This project is just one surprise after another, I do hope this is not just another job for friends and family of board members" is pretty reprehensible when there is no evidence to suggest this at all.
If there was anything to suggest this then he should present his evidence immediately to Ian Hargrave the Caithness area manager for further action. This appears to be an unsubstantiated statement from someone with an axe to grind as they did not get something they wanted.
I thank you for your reply and take on board your comments and suggestions.
If i have cause anyone harm with the question or comments.Please except my apology and that is to all other SITE USERS ...SORRY ....
caithnessboyagee
16-Nov-06, 23:33
I have a question for those in the Wick Heat and Power Company .
How many tonnes of wood will the CHP comsume in a DAY ????????well don't quote me on this but i heard it's round about a hundred ton a week . thats a lot of trees :D
Cedric Farthsbottom III
16-Nov-06, 23:55
I don't know the facts,so no scientific quotes.But wi the amount of coal we were burnin in Pultney,is it more environmentally friendly to burn wood.The figure I was given for the new system was cheaper?
I see from the interview on the programme Eorpa (Thursday 16th Nov).In that programme Councillor G Smith stated that the plant would be burning waste .For all those who said it was a Timber only project ,it must be a right slap in the face .
So has Councillors G Smiths statement given the official seal off approval for the Pulteney CHP Project to become Caithness first INCINERATOR .....
So has Councillors G Smiths statement given the official seal off approval for the Pulteney CHP Project to become Caithness first INCINERATOR .....
Dozy, are you saying that we will see lots of dioxins in the air when this starts up?
Gollach ,what i am saying is that the Woodfueled CHaP project will produce the chemicals mentioned at the begining of the thread .But the chemicals produced by the GASIFICATION then possibility PYROLYSIS process will depends on what you put in ,and Yes ..the chemical you have in your thread could be one of many .DUNDEE have an Incinerator and they have had problems with it .
You see ,i can no longer answer the question you are asking about ( Ds) .
You would be better asking Mr Alex Kenny (manager)on 606122 Caithness Heat and Power .He will have the info to hand ,its part of the Licence that he will have from SEPA ....
The best of luck .
QUADBIKER
21-Nov-06, 21:35
incinerator is it true that this is going to be a incinerator and not a wood burning plant as permission was sought for or is it a case that the council and chap are going to walk all over the people of pultneytown. how about the pultneytown councillor (pepsi) coming onto the org and clearing this matter up. (is there) or (is there not) going to be an incinerator situated in oldwick? i think the people who live in pultneytown deserve an answer to this question after all they were the people with the decency to vote you in. i have decided to ask you for an answer not alec kennedy as you are the councillor for pultneytown and you should be able to answer these questions.
Gollach ,what i am saying is that the Woodfueled CHaP project will produce the chemicals mentioned at the begining of the thread .But the chemicals produced by the GASIFICATION then possibility PYROLYSIS process will depends on what you put in ,and Yes ..the chemical you have in your thread could be one of many .DUNDEE have an Incinerator and they have had problems with it .
You see ,i can no longer answer the question you are asking about ( Ds) .
You would be better asking Mr Alex Kenny (manager)on 606122 Caithness Heat and Power .He will have the info to hand ,its part of the Licence that he will have from SEPA ....
The best of luck .
So you are saying that this new plant is going to be like having an old-fashioned town gasworks, except the gas will be derived from wood instead of coal?
If that is true then the whole CHAP plan sounds a bit of a con. What energy source will be used to heat the wood chips in the gasification process? Unlikely to be more wood chips, is it? Will people appreciate that their low cost heat and hot water could be coming from a system that could have serious consequences for the environment.
Sorry to tell you this but the answer is YES ,basically its the same system that was used in gasworks is call GASIFICATION.
The COMBUSTABLE GASES made by the process can come from WOOD or WASTE .
Wood costs money to buy, transport and chip and that eats up profit .
But WASTE is cheap and the council have MOUNTAINS of it and are desperate to get rid off it
Waste is costing them a forture to landfill ,and with landfill coming to an end shortly they have been looking at ideas to help them get rid off it WELL WOULDN'T YOU ????
NOW if you can sell the community a CHP with the promise of cheap heat and you tell them it will burn wood ,they will jump at it for all the right reasons.
But what you don't tell them is that the plant is a power station and the design of it allows the COUNCIL to burn WASTE.
You see somewhere a group of people got together with the clear intension and knowledge of building a CHP that has the flexibility built into the design to allow them to burn WASTE.
It seens to be an INCINERATOR by the back door and the people on the heating system will not be able to get off the merry-go -round .
The CHaP Company will then use the line "well we're keeping the costs down by burning the WASTE and getting rid of the WASTE Mountain ..
In reply to Mr Fernie's letter of last week .I am not involved in any vendetta(;a blood-feud) with anyone .
Mr Fernie .(councillor)
Your see its all about TRUTH and telling the Community in Pulteney and Wick the TRUTH ...and letting them choose
I am however trying to find out if TAXPAYERS are getting best value for money and the investment of that money does not bring harm to the community or the environment.
I have on you suggestion contacted the CHaP manager Mr A Kenny and was told to e-mail my questions Mrs G Kenny (office staff member), and i look forward to a reply .
As far as I am aware the questions should be answered under the Freedom of Information Act .
As a residant of Caithness and the Highlands if expect the Council and Councillors or any Body funded by Taxpayers money to answer questions put to them, as long as it is not of a private / personnal nature or about a member of the public .
You stated that i may have an axe to grind and that's what is behind my questions , sorry but NO .I did take the project to a council funded body,and that was my mistake and i'll live with it .
If i have given the impression that i am on a witch hunt ,i apologise .
I am asking the question that Councillors should have asked at the beginning before they end up building Wicks answer to the TITANIC
Come off it ,as a councillor are you telling me that it was never mentioned at any meetings that the CHaP could be used to burn WASTE .The truth please??
If the CHaP is successfull and the community is happy, the group involved will shout it from the roof tops .But if the community are left with a INCINERATOR the same people will show us a clean pair of heels .
I dont live in Wick and have been told its nothing to do with me ,but the Council plan to roll them out across the county.What worries me is that they will use the Wick CHP as a lever to force other communities to have one installed.
On a lighter note "Did Thurso have a district heating scheme " ???
Please close this thread...
I have received an e-mail explaining that the word WASTE was used, but it was out of context .The word WASTE is in NO way connected to domestic /household waste ,it was in fact WOODWASTE which is the brash left over from felling .All the little branches and stuff you would see lying around after the trees have gone .This brash is usually left to rot, the CHaP will also chip this for fuel .
I wish the CHaP all the luck with there project ...
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