Norfrost Not Dead After All?

[Tubthumper]

So Norfrost Ltd is proposing to build 190 houses plus retail and office space at Castletown? I had the impression that this heavily public-funded company was bankrupt, into receivership, sold, redundancies galore, the directors stood aside.
This development comes against a County backdrop of proposed large scale housing developments at Ormlie and Spring Park, Asda in Thurso, the Wick retail park and so on. Oh, and job reductions at Dounreay plus a lack of volume employers willing to come here. So who are these homes for? And what effect will it have on existing house prices, retail outlets and vacant office facilities?
Is there something going on? Should we assume this is an honest business venture/gamble? Does somebody have inside information? Where's the money coming from if Norfrost went bust? And will the lady & gentleman concerned put any profits made from back to CASE?

[BMcGillivray]

Have you got a link to the source of this information?

[Tubthumper]

Sorry no link available at present. The source is the recorded delivery letter I got the other day as per planning application rules!
A strange thought hits me: Why hasn't this proposal been in the Groat? (Mind you I can't remember a negative story about Norfrost ever being in the Groat)

[Mr_Me19]

Its not Norfrost thats doing it. On the letters it just says Mr & Mrs A Grant. It doesn't mention Norfrost at all as far as i can remember....

[maidencaithness]

the letter say Mr & Mrs A Grant Norfrost ltd Murayfield Castletown

[Scaraben1976]

Any chance of anyone th thas recieved the letter scanning it, and posit it on the .org so we can all see this??

[burstbucker]

Why don't you approach the Planning Office to check?

[Venture]

I thought if they had been declared bankrupt trading as Norfrost Ltd. that they couldnt start up again under the same name.

[Piglet]

It was not just called Norfrost Ltd.

There were different companies Norfrost Technologys Ltd (Dissolved), Norfrost Holdings Ltd

Check this link.

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/596cd0f6f3e265194c7d8868e9ce827d/companysearch?disp=res&frfsh=1163455903#result

[moncur]

Norfrost no longer exists. The company was sold to Icetech freezers ltd and Mr & Mrs Grant no longer have any involvement in that company. Maybe the couple are building houses, maybe they're not. Don't believe every story you hear.

[buggyracer]

good luck to them if they are.

[Chrissie]

TUBTHUMPER you sound like a typical 'local' who does not understand the way business works. Maybe you have fortgotten that Alex and Pat Grant worked hard to get to where they are today and employed hundreds of people who maybe would not have had employment in the county if it was not for Norfrost. So they hit hard times with their business and with so much competition now from China and elswhere in Europe it was not difficult to understand why the business could not survive on the level it had reached. You mention CASE - this is another 'local' falicy that CASE are like some fairy godmother to business - well take it from somebody who knows that is not the fact. If in business you approach CASE for grants you have to match the amount you get and small business has to spend £20,000 on machinery to qualify for any assistance. Once again CASE are in the 'risk' business that is what it was set up to do to help local business and over the years they would have helped Norfrost with various grants etc but when the business went into liquidation then CASE like all other creditors lost the money it put in to the business - they took the risk. Leave the past in the past and let hard working people like the Grants get on with their lives that is what is wrong with a place like Caithness too many little minded people who hate to see anybody being successful locally! Would you have the same outcry if these houses were being built for Tullochs. LIVE AND LET LIVE!

[henry20]

TUBTHUMPER you sound like a typical 'local' who does not understand the way business works. Maybe you have fortgotten that Alex and Pat Grant worked hard to get to where they are today and employed hundreds of people who maybe would not have had employment in the county if it was not for Norfrost. So they hit hard times with their business and with so much competition now from China and elswhere in Europe it was not difficult to understand why the business could not survive on the level it had reached. You mention CASE - this is another 'local' falicy that CASE are like some fairy godmother to business - well take it from somebody who knows that is not the fact. If in business you approach CASE for grants you have to match the amount you get and small business has to spend £20,000 on machinery to qualify for any assistance. Once again CASE are in the 'risk' business that is what it was set up to do to help local business and over the years they would have helped Norfrost with various grants etc but when the business went into liquidation then CASE like all other creditors lost the money it put in to the business - they took the risk. Leave the past in the past and let hard working people like the Grants get on with their lives that is what is wrong with a place like Caithness too many little minded people who hate to see anybody being successful locally! Would you have the same outcry if these houses were being built for Tullochs. LIVE AND LET LIVE!

I'm all for people being successful, but having failed in a business once, should people really be given a clean slate to start again while other people are still paying the price?

How many of Norfrost's creditors lost out on a lot of money - or staff struggle to meet mortgage and put food on the table? While it may not have crippled them, they have still suffered and had to struggle out of financial crisis. It is an insult to hard working people - business' or not, that they work themselves to the bone to earn a crust - be it a good one or just enough to put food on the table, only for someone (be it Mr & Mrs Grant or any other business that has gone bust) who has hit 'hard times' walk away scot-free and start up all over again.

[buggyracer]

TUBTHUMPER you sound like a typical 'local' who does not understand the way business works. Maybe you have fortgotten that Alex and Pat Grant worked hard to get to where they are today and employed hundreds of people who maybe would not have had employment in the county if it was not for Norfrost. So they hit hard times with their business and with so much competition now from China and elswhere in Europe it was not difficult to understand why the business could not survive on the level it had reached. You mention CASE - this is another 'local' falicy that CASE are like some fairy godmother to business - well take it from somebody who knows that is not the fact. If in business you approach CASE for grants you have to match the amount you get and small business has to spend £20,000 on machinery to qualify for any assistance. Once again CASE are in the 'risk' business that is what it was set up to do to help local business and over the years they would have helped Norfrost with various grants etc but when the business went into liquidation then CASE like all other creditors lost the money it put in to the business - they took the risk. Leave the past in the past and let hard working people like the Grants get on with their lives that is what is wrong with a place like Caithness too many little minded people who hate to see anybody being successful locally! Would you have the same outcry if these houses were being built for Tullochs. LIVE AND LET LIVE!

well said!!

[Cattach]

TUBTHUMPER you sound like a typical 'local' who does not understand the way business works. Maybe you have fortgotten that Alex and Pat Grant worked hard to get to where they are today and employed hundreds of people who maybe would not have had employment in the county if it was not for Norfrost. So they hit hard times with their business and with so much competition now from China and elswhere in Europe it was not difficult to understand why the business could not survive on the level it had reached. You mention CASE - this is another 'local' falicy that CASE are like some fairy godmother to business - well take it from somebody who knows that is not the fact. If in business you approach CASE for grants you have to match the amount you get and small business has to spend £20,000 on machinery to qualify for any assistance. Once again CASE are in the 'risk' business that is what it was set up to do to help local business and over the years they would have helped Norfrost with various grants etc but when the business went into liquidation then CASE like all other creditors lost the money it put in to the business - they took the risk. Leave the past in the past and let hard working people like the Grants get on with their lives that is what is wrong with a place like Caithness too many little minded people who hate to see anybody being successful locally! Would you have the same outcry if these houses were being built for Tullochs. LIVE AND LET LIVE!

There is not a lot of risk when you are throwing rate payers money around. Especially when despite all the CASE failures there are now more staff working there than before!

[Billy Boy]

Norfrost no longer exists. The company was sold to Icetech freezers ltd and Mr & Mrs Grant no longer have any involvement in that company. Maybe the couple are building houses, maybe they're not. Don't believe every story you hear.


i take it by this you believe in stories you are told? what make's you think that mr & mrs Grant are not behind Icetech as sleeping parters :confused I for one would not put anything past them,after all they didnt get where they were being stupid, they would of seen the liquidation coming and made sure that they were well prepared for the future, they obviously still have money as they still have their big house, cars and a comfortable lifestyle, more than their ex employee's and their creditors have [disgust]
so how do you explain people getting official letters stating mr & mrs Grant are applying for planing permission with the name norfrost ??

[Billy Boy]

It was not just called Norfrost Ltd.

There were different companies Norfrost Technologys Ltd (Dissolved), Norfrost Holdings Ltd

Check this link.

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/596cd0f6f3e265194c7d8868e9ce827d/companysearch?disp=res&frfsh=1163455903#result

Checked this out on the link above, would say this explains alot, the only one dissolved is norfrost technologies, norfrost limited is still alive and kicking but not trading as yet!!

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/b1b39de566c308e6221210364977cc23/compdetails
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/3b1699c1bf9845481c8336cfecd2f33f/compdetails

[Tubthumper]

TUBTHUMPER you sound like a typical 'local' who does not understand the way business works. Maybe you have fortgotten that Alex and Pat Grant worked hard to get to where they are today and employed hundreds of people who maybe would not have had employment in the county if it was not for Norfrost. So they hit hard times with their business and with so much competition now from China and elswhere in Europe it was not difficult to understand why the business could not survive on the level it had reached. You mention CASE - this is another 'local' falicy that CASE are like some fairy godmother to business - well take it from somebody who knows that is not the fact. If in business you approach CASE for grants you have to match the amount you get and small business has to spend £20,000 on machinery to qualify for any assistance. Once again CASE are in the 'risk' business that is what it was set up to do to help local business and over the years they would have helped Norfrost with various grants etc but when the business went into liquidation then CASE like all other creditors lost the money it put in to the business - they took the risk. Leave the past in the past and let hard working people like the Grants get on with their lives that is what is wrong with a place like Caithness too many little minded people who hate to see anybody being successful locally! Would you have the same outcry if these houses were being built for Tullochs. LIVE AND LET LIVE!
Firstly, how come when Norfrost (and the papers, Groat & Scotsman, reported it as Norfrost that was into liquidation) went down the tubes, whether as a result of competition from overseas, fuel costs or whatever, Pat & Alex G gracefully backed away keeping their share of the massive profits (Ice Queen Pat Grant, 37th richest woman in Scotland - £50million company etc etc) as their creditors lost out? You think fine. If they personally own half of Castletown, well, you think fine again. If you admire their practices as good business, then more fool you, and remind me never to deal with you.
I think it was the height of hypocrisy for them to remain silent as Norfrost went down the pan, local jobs lost, without them sinking THEIR hard-earned cash into it, as opposed to CASE propping it up with OUR money. As it turns out, they own this lump of land that's fit to build 190 houses; so why did they not sell IT and pump the cash into keeping the Norfrost dream alive? And how come Icetech can be a going concern? And how come these people are alleged to be sleeping partners? I reckon it was all a front - sink the business, bankruptcy, cover it up, appear again, continue raking in the cash. In fact I seem to remember something about them handing the company over to the workforce as a trust fund - wonder what happened there?
Don't dare call me a small minded local; in my view the small minded ones are those who unquestioningly accept that sharp practice like the Norfrost saga does some good for the community. It certainly did a lot of good to Mr & Mrs Grant.
And hey, how do you compare sharp practice like Norfrost with that of the people who previously owned Skinandis, Dominoes, the collapsing Heartbreak Hotel at the town's square Thurso and various other enterprises... Same???
Frankly I don't wish anyone to build houses in my back green, Tullochs, O'Briens or whoever. But I really resent these people making even more cash and an even bigger fool out of all of us.
Live and let live? Aye right!

[Tubthumper]

S'all gone quiet.
So never mind the dodgy practices of the Castletown business community, back to the other part of my original query:
Who are these house to be for? 190 at the back of the Battery factory/front of Ormlie, a stack at Spring Park/Laurie Terrace, endless self-builds and infill developments, ribbon developments, and now another 190 at Castletown... Should we be investing in the County? Are house prices going to go through the roof, or fall through the floor?
Anyone ken what's going on here?