View Full Version : Teenage pregnancy
rockchick
12-Nov-06, 00:05
The PC version..
should YOUR high-school-aged daughter...not a member of the ORG or any other organisation, come home and announce that she had "fallen pregnant"...how would you react?
Would you:
(a) be happy for her, in her impending show of fertility, and look forward to becoming a grandparent?
(b) be upset, as she shouldn't be having sexual relations at her age without the benefit of a stable relationship
(c) Be worried, that you might end up supporting her and her child(ren) for the rest of their lives?
mums angels
12-Nov-06, 00:15
Well i would take a deep breath , try not to yell. sit down with her have a good long talk about the responsibilities she will have to think about ask how she and boyfreind feels about it. Give her a hug and go to bed and have a silent cry for her. Then next day take her to council office put her name down for a house telling her i'd be there for her to talk to and i'd help with little things but she has to do it on her own.
Thats what my parents did to me and at the time i thought it was harsh making me go before i was ready but i'm glad they did it ..it made me a stronger person and made my husband and i much more determined to do it on our own. We had a lovley baby girl and it was very hard but do not regret a minute of it we also now have two boys and have been together almost 10 years ,however I wouldn't recommend it to others because not all are as lucky as i am
SandTiger
12-Nov-06, 00:16
Don't forget...
d) Consider adoption for a more worthy and preferably middle class family
d(i) With visatation rights
d(ii) Without visatation rights
;)
It would be a mix of a & c i would think - if they were brought up they way you want them to be they will know & understand that they will have to bring up the child but you will always be there for help & support.
Dreadnought
12-Nov-06, 00:20
Well i would take a deep breath , try not to yell. sit down with her have a good long talk about the responsibilities she will have to think about ask how she and boyfreind feels about it. Give her a hug and go to bed and have a silent cry for her. Then next day take her to council office put her name down for a house
That is what is wrong with the system. Why should she get a house? If there were no comfy benefits hammock for her to lay in, if pregnant teenagers didn't get it all thrown at them out of the taxpayers' hard-earned, I'd bet there wouldn't be a quarter the teenage pregnancies we have today.
[/B]
That is what is wrong with the system. Why should she get a house? If there were no comfy benefits hammock for her to lay in, if pregnant teenagers didn't get it all thrown at them out of the taxpayers' hard-earned, I'd bet therewouldn't be a quarter the teenage pregnancies we have today.
I totally agree with that.
I would be devastated!
Yet at the same time I would do everything I could to support her and at the same time making her (and him if I ever got my hands around his....... (sorry off topic there)) responsible for her actions.
I would be there to help and support her but whatever she decides will have consequences that will affect her for the rest of her life!
rockchick
12-Nov-06, 00:27
Well i would take a deep breath , try not to yell. sit down with her have a good long talk about the responsibilities she will have to think about ask how she and boyfreind feels about it. Give her a hug and go to bed and have a silent cry for her. Then next day take her to council office put her name down for a house telling her i'd be there for her to talk to and i'd help with little things but she has to do it on her own.
Thats what my parents did to me and at the time i thought it was harsh making me go before i was ready but i'm glad they did it ..it made me a stronger person and made my husband and i much more determined to do it on our own. We had a lovley baby girl and it was very hard but do not regret a minute of it we also now have two boys and have been together almost 10 years ,however I wouldn't recommend it to others because not all are as lucky as i am
Why should she get a council house? Why shouldn't she get off her arse (and her hubby, or the boyfriend) and work their butt off to support the child themselves?
Sorry if this goes against the British mainstream, but where I come from, if you get yourself "in trouble", then you get yourself out of it. Your work your butt off!!! My husband worked nights while I worked days so that we didn't have to send our kids off to some unknown daycare. It sucked, cuz we never saw each other except for about an hour each day for the "passover", but that's what you did. cuz you had responsiblities.
mums angels
12-Nov-06, 00:33
That is what is wrong with the system. Why should she get a house? If there were no comfy benefits hammock for her to lay in, if pregnant teenagers didn't get it all thrown at them out of the taxpayers' hard-earned, I'd bet there wouldn't be a quarter the teenage pregnancies we have today.
who should get the house then..? A teenage lad thats been kicked out of his house by his mother,,,council houses are there for low income famlies and how else would she learn to stand on her own two feet not by living with her mum thats for sure...the damage would be done you can't turn back the clocks.
I was in a council house for 3 years but believe me i hated every minute of it and i didn't have it Furnished in a week .. i had an inflatable seat for a year then got everything else from next to nothing from the quay brae sales
I agree that with these grants e.t.c it can be made easy for them but that wssn't around when i was 16 and god forbid if my daughter did get pregnant i would not allow her to claim all the added BENFITS ...minimum only
melted_wellie
12-Nov-06, 00:36
my friends daughter had a child recently, she is 16, she got a council house fully furnished with brand new everything, she is lapping it up.
mums angels
12-Nov-06, 00:39
[quote=rockchick;159514]Why should she get a council house? Why shouldn't she get off her arse (and her hubby, or the boyfriend) and work their butt off to support the child themselves?
Sorry if this goes against the British mainstream, but where I come from, if you get yourself "in trouble", then you get yourself out of it. Your work your butt off!!! My husband worked nights while I worked days so that we didn't have to send our kids off to some unknown daycare. It sucked, cuz we never saw each other except for about an hour each day for the "passover", but that's what you did. cuz you had responsiblities.[
My hubby did work his but off to get us off benfits and buy a house of our own and he now has a damn good job and pays a thousands in tax a month.
my friends daughter had a child recently, she is 16, she got a council house fully furnished with brand new everything, she is lapping it up.
Since we don't know who you are or who she is can you tell us why/how she got it?
connieb19
12-Nov-06, 00:41
What really annoys me is why if someone who has been on benefits, for say 15 years, all of a sudden decides to get off their backside and get a job, when they go to buy their council house, they will get the 15 years discount even though the state has paid the rent for the previous 15 years? Why do they get any discount at all when they havn't worked to pay the rent? [evil]
Dreadnought
12-Nov-06, 00:42
who should get the house then..? A teenage lad thats been kicked out of his house by his mother,,,council houses are there for low income famlies and how else would she learn to stand on her own two feet not by living with her mum thats for sure...the damage would be done you can't turn back the clocks.
If she is so stupid as to not take proper precautions and get knocked up, why should I or any taxpayer then have to pay for her and her boyfriend's stupidity? YES her family should support her. Giving her a council house only teaches her, and her generation, that its ok not to take responsibility for your own actions because when it goes wrong the government will give it all to you for free.
What really annoys me is why if someone who has been on benefits, for say 15 years, all of a sudden decides to get off their backside and get a job, when they go to buy their council house, they will get the 15 years discount even though the state has paid the rent for the previous 15 years? Why do they get any discount at all when they havn't worked to pay the rent? [evil]
:eek: Please, please, please tell me you are kidding.
rockchick
12-Nov-06, 00:43
[quote=rockchick;159514]Why should she get a council house? Why shouldn't she get off her arse (and her hubby, or the boyfriend) and work their butt off to support the child themselves?
Sorry if this goes against the British mainstream, but where I come from, if you get yourself "in trouble", then you get yourself out of it. Your work your butt off!!! My husband worked nights while I worked days so that we didn't have to send our kids off to some unknown daycare. It sucked, cuz we never saw each other except for about an hour each day for the "passover", but that's what you did. cuz you had responsiblities.[
My hubby did work his but off to get us off benfits and buy a house of our own and he now has a damn good job and pays a thousands in tax a month.
Good for your hubby, and glad you've got support...same as myself.. however it doesn't count against some 16 year old, who's never worked or paid taxes, and by god they get everything paid for and laid at their doorstep. While there needs to be some safety net for those who find themselves genuinely in need, it shouldn't be an easy out for those who just want to get out of their parent's household, but can't find their own career path.
connieb19
12-Nov-06, 00:45
:eek: Please, please, please tell me you are kidding.
I saw a programme on tv about it one night, makes my blood boil. They've never payed a penny rent or council tax but still get the full discount. [evil]
melted_wellie
12-Nov-06, 00:46
Since we don't know who you are or who she is can you tell us why/how she got it?she just applied for it, she told them she was single and homeless, she was niether.
I saw a programme on tv about it one night, makes my blood boil. They've never payed a penny rent or council tax but still get the full discount. [evil]
And that is what is wrong with the system"
dinna worry connie aye we seem the mugs working since we were able to do so, But at least we can feel that wee bit good we earned our money
:eek: Please, please, please tell me you are kidding.
Gee she's probably not kidding - there is an ubandance of it out this way.
But gee whis i wish she wasn't. they can drive about here in people carriers & not pay for them when we have too pay for everything we have.:(
mums angels
12-Nov-06, 00:50
[quote=mums angels;159541]
Good for your hubby, and glad you've got support...same as myself.. however it doesn't count against some 16 year old, who's never worked or paid taxes, and by god they get everything paid for and laid at their doorstep. While there needs to be some safety net for those who find themselves genuinely in need, it shouldn't be an easy out for those who just want to get out of their parent's household, but can't find their own career path.
yeah i agree , i don't know when it became that you got so much money for having a child , like i said before i got 40quid a week but still had to pay rent(8yrs ago) but i've just been told that girls these days are getting 3-4 times that much a week for one child and still don't have to pay rent...that is shocking
connieb19
12-Nov-06, 00:51
dinna worry connie aye we seem the mugs working since we were able to do so, But at least we can feel that wee bit good we earned our money
Thats true Saxo, but people who never intend to work dont know that feeling and that is why they expect more and more, they're never satisfied because they've never worked for what they have, they thing the world owes them.
mums angels
12-Nov-06, 00:58
Gee she's probably not kidding - there is an ubandance of it out this way.
But gee whis i wish she wasn't. they can drive about here in people carriers & not pay for them when we have too pay for everything we have.:(
I drive a people carrier ....lol:lol:
connieb19
12-Nov-06, 00:59
I drive a people carrier ....lol:lol:I bet you pay for yours though lol. :eek:
mums angels
12-Nov-06, 01:01
I bet you pay for yours though lol. :eek:
yes i do(hubby does)..nice hefty monthly repayments...we pay for everything we have.:)
Are you saying that everyone from aberdeen does things with sheeps
who is bordering on racism now.;)
I thought the thread was about what someone would do if their teenage daughter told them they were pregnant. My son is 16 in a couple of weeks and has been WARNED in no uncertain terms that he is not to become a father until he is 30 at the earliest. I do not intend to become a granny till I am 50, not in advance of my 40th birthday.
kwbrown111
12-Nov-06, 01:01
no just making a point. like i said there is no need for comments like that
I drive a people carrier ....lol:lol:
So dose my hubby :lol:
mums angels
12-Nov-06, 01:03
Do you all know that caithness has the highest rate of uneployment in the highlands and it keeps going up every year i do wonder way we should go out in all weather condition to keep people that are big and ugly enough to get pregnant there big and ugly enough to stand on there on two feet .
It might have something to do with the fact there is no jobs up here unless you work at the likes of dounreay and such like...my hubbys a mechanic and only job he got offered up here was for next to nothing pay so he has to work away to provide for us
connieb19
12-Nov-06, 01:03
Do you all know that caithness has the highest rate of uneployment in the highlands and it keeps going up every year i do wonder way we should go out in all weather condition to keep people that are big and ugly enough to get pregnant there big and ugly enough to stand on there on two feet .Maybe Child Benefit should be paid for the first child only ( or not at all ) I wonder if there would be so many prepared to have them if they had to support them themselves? I bet not!!
I thought the thread was about what someone would do if their teenage daughter told them they were pregnant. My son is 16 in a couple of weeks and has been WARNED in no uncertain terms that he is not to become a father until he is 30 at the earliest. I do not intend to become a granny till I am 50, not in advance of my 40th birthday.
I am well aware what the topic is! [disgust] :roll:
rockchick
12-Nov-06, 01:06
Maybe I should clarify this...
If your daughter (heck, or son...let's not discriminate!) were going to become parents, and they had no resources of their own, or plans to manage this, what would you do?
For some strange reason, I was brought up with the idea that giving an unplanned (not necessarily unwanted!) child up for adoption was a good idea. It gave the under-aged mother a second chance, and didn't require killing/abortion of the child.
What would Orgers have to say about this? Would they allow it? Would they rather bring up the child as their own rather than allow it to be adopted?
jinglejangle
12-Nov-06, 01:08
Maybe I should clarify this...
If your daughter (heck, or son...let's not discriminate!) were going to become parents, and they had no resources of their own, or plans to manage this, what would you do?
For some strange reason, I was brought up with the idea that giving an unplanned (not necessarily unwanted!) child up for adoption was a good idea. Gave the under-aged mother a second chance, and didn't require killing/abortion of the child.
What would Orgers have to say about this? Would they allow it? Would they rather bring up the child as their own rather than allow it to be adopted?
I would defo bring up as my own - I couldn't bear for child [own flesh and blood] to be adopted.
mums angels
12-Nov-06, 01:09
I would defo bring up as my own - I couldn't bear for child [own flesh and blood] to be adopted.
Hear hear ...if my child didn't want it i would do it...I was adopted and it was no fun feeling that you were never wanted, child would know that i'm granny though
I would defo bring up as my own - I couldn't bear for child [own flesh and blood] to be adopted.And what about when the child finds out that his or her sister is actually the child's mother?
melted_wellie
12-Nov-06, 01:12
Well there must be pleanty of work here as half the town as taken on the polish workers because the locals cant be bothered getting out there bed or the other half has a bun in the oven . and would rather live off the state .
locals wont work as they are getting too much benefits, it isnt worth their while, so they say anyway.
jinglejangle
12-Nov-06, 01:13
And what about when the child finds out that his or her sister is actually the child's mother?
sorry didn't phrase that right - i would bring the child up defo rather than him / her being adopted - would sort out the rest when seen appropriate.
mums angels
12-Nov-06, 01:13
Well there must be pleanty of work here as half the town as taken on the polish workers because the locals cant be bothered getting out there bed or the other half has a bun in the oven . and would rather live off the state .
yeah thay have taken on a lot of the polish but they are willing to work for less that there british counterparts. i wouldn't know about lazy locals i am yet to meet one that i know personally
mums angels
12-Nov-06, 01:16
Not sure that is fair...
i would have assumed (not know too much about the adoption system in this country) that if one was to give a child up for adoption, it woudn't necessarily be in the same geographical area that you gave birth in. That would be too dangerous!
your right when i was adopted my parents were up here and had to go to adoption agencies down in edinburgh
rockchick
12-Nov-06, 01:17
sorry didn't phrase that right - i would bring the child up defo rather than him / her being adopted - would sort out the rest when seen appropriate.
Fair enough, but if you weren't in the position to raise it...wouldn't giving it up for adoption (and there are tonnes of couples ready and willing to adopt a healthy, drug-free baby) be better than aborting it?
Where do you draw the line?
mums angels
12-Nov-06, 01:25
It would still know that it's mum didn't want it because granny is bringing it up.
I would explain that its mother was to young to cope and hope that my daughter would gradually come round to the idea of being involved .....besides when i said its a horrible feeling to be unwanted ..i also meant from whole entire family..granny wanting you would be better than nothing
It happened reguarly years ago, grannies brought up kids as their own and never let on until the kids were old enough to know and understand. The social stigma of being an unmarried mother was awful but now I think we have gone too far the other way and it is a quick way to get away from home, get money and freedom, little do these girls and boys realise that it is only a way to get out of mum's house cos when baby comes they have no money and absolutely no freedom.
The baby should be placed in the local Orphanage and the Single Mother, after she has been made to sit on the Stool before the whole congregation in the local Kirk to display her shame, should be sent to the Workhouse!
That's assuming they have stopped flogging people in the Town Square in the last few months!
Of course there were far fewer teenage single mothers years ago. The problem was simply made to go away. Could possibly explain why there were so many things called Foundling Hospitals and every area had an "Orphanage".
Does anybody know where the nearest Orphanage and Foundling Hospital is to Caithness?
It happened reguarly years ago, grannies brought up kids as their own and never let on until the kids were old enough to know and understand. The social stigma of being an unmarried mother was awful but now I think we have gone too far the other way and it is a quick way to get away from home, get money and freedom, little do these girls and boys realise that it is only a way to get out of mum's house cos when baby comes they have no money and absolutely no freedom.
I think you are right: well put!
SandTiger
12-Nov-06, 03:14
Fair enough, but if you weren't in the position to raise it...wouldn't giving it up for adoption (and there are tonnes of couples ready and willing to adopt a healthy, drug-free baby) be better than aborting it?
Where do you draw the line?
Over Population
Utopian Social Engineering
Madonna
<---- Draws a line in the sand :)
my gf is tennage well not 18 i plan chilld with my fiancee nothing wrong with it
connieb19
12-Nov-06, 03:26
my gf is tennage well not 18 i plan chilld with my fiancee nothing wrong with itAs long as you and your gf are willing to support a child and don't expect the state to do it, then there is nothing wrong with it at all. :confused
SandTiger
12-Nov-06, 03:29
my gf is tennage well not 18 i plan chilld with my fiancee nothing wrong with it
Well said!
I am extremely impressed by the number of people who live their lives by such high standards and strict morals.
I only wish I were so perfect, it must create such a wonderful feeling of superiority.
One thing I am certain about, come the Day of Judgement I shall make sure I am sent as far as possible in the opposite direction.
I just couldn't face the thought of having to wear a Halo that was that tight!
ok people let me tell you something ..
you are so blithly talking about adoption and giving your babies up.. letting them be raised by someone else?
my real mum was 16 when she fell preg. with me.
had turned 17 by a few days when she had me.
she was not a responsible person.
had no intentions of wanting or loving a baby.
my granny.. (whom i call mom) brought me home from the hospital as natural mother still ived with them.. my gran and grandad are my parents.
when i was a baby.. my natural mother who was still living at home.. was asked to watch me while her mom and dad went out to eat.. she replied that she was not babysitting on the weekend..
things started to go down hill.. and ended up in court with my granny winning custody.
i spent my whole life with my gran.. whom i called mama..
i knew my real mom.. i knew she was my real mom.. she had 6 other children actually.
and we all lived right next to each other.
but i will tell you what.. i have never resented anyone as much as i resent her .. and she has been dead since 94.
can you imagine standing on the outside..looking in.. knowing that your REAL mother.. didnt want you .. that you would never be a part of her life. that every now and again you would get a smile.. and a hullo.. treated like a sister at best.
we were out one day together.. and she said what ever you do dont call me mom.. i dont want guys to think im old enough to have a kids your age.. i was about 15 at the time.
i had never called her mom.. and the little spark of hope i had that we could one day have a mother/daughter relationship started to wither and die.
and do you know how jealous a person can get over a child?
that they do not want you to have any happiness?
knowing that my natural mother did not want me was not enough.. one of my uncles and her reminded me every day that mamma was not really my mom but my grannie..
how would you feel to be about 8 years old and having it slammed home every chance that you are not wanted by the people who should want you most?
now this was done by a 16 year old that they thought was too young to take responsibility.. that it would ruin her life to have a baby so young..
in my eyes wasnt her life that was ruined..
now on the flip side. i have and aunt and a cousin.. one was 14 and one was 15. when they had their first.
yup parents were horrified... felt they had failed their children.
but those women went on had their kids.. one ended up with the babbys dad had 4 more girls.. and have 5 wonderful children.. who are now mostly grown.
the other had a wortless guy who left her.. and she struggles on.. a few years later got married .. and raised a total of 3 great kids..
and yes they struggled.. and had a hard begining.. but they loved their children and fought for them.
in fact my cousin nicole... was born at 5 mnths.
and had a whole in her heart a heart murmur and several other things due to being so early..
and spent the first months of her life in hospital.
now imagine if you will
a 15 year old girl.. with a baby this sick.
staying night and day in the hospital with her near death baby. mom use to tell me they slept on the floor in the hospital room.. and it was a 7 hour drive to the hospital!
its amazing how people can be so dif.
these two part. people were sisters..
one couldnt care less about her baby.. and she was older..
and one would move heaven and earth for hers.
and she was younger.
so dont go on about a girl being too young .. that it will ruin their lives.
if a woman wants to be a mother they will be.
if they are to lazy and lacking in motherly instincts.. then no they should never have a baby. but that baby does deserve a chance.
i know i may be overly emotional being preg myself. but hey like an everyone else im allowed my opinnion and like an armpit sometimes two! *Grins*
Their's a very apt, if a bit rough and ready, statement for this - 'if you can't feed em, don't breed em!
The state support system should surely be aimed at the unfortunates who through no fault of their own end up raising children with little or no income. Those who through carelessness or choice end up with offspring and no income should receive no help.
Reasonable surely as there are plenty people financially and socially capable of raising families who are willing to adopt and love unplanned children.
rockchick
12-Nov-06, 09:26
Wow Brandy, don't quite know what to say.
When I was thinking of adoption, it was with the view that the child and birth mother were separated, the baby goes off to a new family and they don't have contact with each other. Not living down the street!
What really annoys me is why if someone who has been on benefits, for say 15 years, all of a sudden decides to get off their backside and get a job, when they go to buy their council house, they will get the 15 years discount even though the state has paid the rent for the previous 15 years? Why do they get any discount at all when they havn't worked to pay the rent? [evil]
That's a scenarion I hadn't though of, to be honest - but you are absolutely correct..
rockchick
12-Nov-06, 09:53
I am extremely impressed by the number of people who live their lives by such high standards and strict morals.
I only wish I were so perfect, it must create such a wonderful feeling of superiority.
One thing I am certain about, come the Day of Judgement I shall make sure I am sent as far as possible in the opposite direction.
I just couldn't face the thought of having to wear a Halo that was that tight!
Sarcasm aside, how is expecting people to take responsibility for their actions an unreachably high standard and strict morals????
There are so many issues involved with teenage pregnancy...birth control, social pressure, financial issues, the needs of the mother vs. the needs of the taxpayer...an open and honest discussion about some of the options available can only be a good thing.
That is what is wrong with the system. Why should she get a house? If there were no comfy benefits hammock for her to lay in, if pregnant teenagers didn't get it all thrown at them out of the taxpayers' hard-earned, I'd bet there wouldn't be a quarter the teenage pregnancies we have today.
Wait a minute. the operative term here was 'put her name down for a house' which implies she would go on the waiting list like everyone else. Otherwise she would have an easy ride, staying at mum's, with on tap baby-sitting. 'Getting a house,' as you put it, is not the easy option in this case.
Maybe Child Benefit should be paid for the first child only ( or not at all ) I wonder if there would be so many prepared to have them if they had to support them themselves? I bet not!!
Child benefits is often what makes the difference between a mother being able to work or unable to work. Have you thought that the minimum wage is £5 odd per hour (before tax) and a childminder up here charges £3 (irrespective of tax). There are many people working hard that manage (I said manage) because of associated child benefits and working tax credits.
I do think that teenagers becoming pregnant should be held responsible. Do not throw money willy-nilly at them. It does nothing to break the cycle. They should be required to work for that money, even if it becomes necessary to "invent" jobs for them ( howabout picking up litter? Always useful to town).
Another thing is shame. There seems to be no shame anymore about becoming pregnant at whatever age. Unfortunately where I come from often teenagers that become pregnant will be thrown out of the house with no where to go. There are no council houses for them and benefits are practically non existant. They will often end up in halfway houses for a brief period and will out of necessity find jobs ASAP if they want to have options when their time at these houses end. I used the word unfortunately because this is the other extreme, in which no assistance at all is given and the one to suffer the most is the baby, which is not right.
That is what is wrong with the system. Why should she get a house? If there were no comfy benefits hammock for her to lay in, if pregnant teenagers didn't get it all thrown at them out of the taxpayers' hard-earned, I'd bet there wouldn't be a quarter the teenage pregnancies we have today.
And to the guy who agreed...
Have you ever tried being a single parent? Have you?
I have access to my kids from Essex, for long-ish periods (school holidays, mainly). During the times when I have them, I'm effectively a male single parent.
It's not easy, guys, I can tell you first hand. I'm fortunate enough to have a very supportive family to help, but if I didn't, I don't know how I'd hold down a full-time job. Certainly not on the wages that I get paid at guess-my-employer. I don't receive government help during those periods (hmm... perhaps I should press for my CSA payments to be suspended during them) so I have to work full time.
I think the view that single-mothers are worthless scroungers who only got pregnant so as to get a house is so skewed from reality as to be laughable. Sure, you are always going to find examples where that has been the case... but in the majority of cases you'll find a whole plethora of individual, worthy mothers (and, less frequently, fathers) who need all the help they can get. For example, my ex-wife... no wait... let's not talk about her right now...
And, let's not forget in our Daily Hysteria Mail moral rectitude, the reason they are called single-mothers is because they have children. What are you proposing? Cut their benefits? Evict them? Who actually suffers then? The mothers, or are you saying the children should have their food/clothing/whatever allowance cut because their mother was a bit silly, or drunk, before they were born?
Your proposal seems to be that single-mothers exist, in the main, because it's easy enough on benefits, and that we should cut the benefits scheme to make it more difficult.
Why should she get a house? Absolutely right... the mother doesn't deserve a house! Throw her on the street, because SHE allowed herself to have unprotected sex. And the child? On the street too! No, wait...
I can't agree with that. Sorry. The answer is far more complex than that. I don't know what it is, but I know it's not solely the fault of the benefits system. Single-parenthood is not an easy option, and just because a few think that it is doesn't mean that the majority should suffer because of their naivety.
/rant
let's not kid ourselves, here. Let's not pretend that teenagers shouldn't have sex before they're married, and that they never did. It was just swept under the carpet for social reasons. Whoever mentioned orphanages and foundling hospitals had it right. The problem was there, it's just that it wasn't talked about. Hormones were still present, back then, they just weren't known about.
Dreadnought
13-Nov-06, 00:39
They have families. That is where their support should come from. Not from my wage packet or anyone else's.
Been there, done that and know the feelings. Only in my case it was a permanent full time condition.
The assumption that all single parents are simply intent on "Living off the State" is just a different variation of the outdated ideas that they should be shunned and stigmatised.
In years gone by people with the same mindset would have stigmatised anybody who was divorced in a similar manner.
It must be a great feeling to be able to sit on high and throw abuse at the "less worth" members of Society knowing that you are above such behaviour.
Been there, done that and know the feelings. Only in my case it was a permanent full time condition.
The assumption that all single parents are simply intent on "Living off the State" is just a different variation of the outdated ideas that they should be shunned and stigmatised.
In years gone by people with the same mindset would have stigmatised anybody who was divorced in a similar manner.
It must be a great feeling to be able to sit on high and throw abuse at the "less worth" members of Society knowing that you are above such behaviour.
Asking for people and their families to take responsibility for there for their actions does not mean the people who posted 'sit on high'.
A safety net is VERY important, but it needs to stay that way. It should never be a way of funding a lifestyle. There are many people who need the safety net and don't get enough support and there are people who know how to work the system. Lets get the money where it is needed!
Our grandson was a result of a young pregnancy with our son and his girlfriend. They didnt stay together and she didnt want the baby so hubby and i took him on. Its been very hard at times, hes now 6 and gone to live with his daddy , partner and 15 month old brother. All worked out in the end but the young mother was to interested in partying. Our son lived at home and he was the one who got up in the night to feed and change his son, not because i nagged him to but because he wanted to. jan x
What a can of worms this is. People make mistakes in their lives. Whilst having a baby at 16 is not the best idea it does not mean a life on benefit, a child brought up with a mother who simply wants to party, take drugs and get drunk or a disfunctional family.
A child of sixteen who is pregnant should be given the help she needs to decide what the best course of action should be. If she decides n abortion or adoption then fine - if she doesnt and If she is able to live at home with a loving family of her own who will support her then what is wrong with that? If she needs somewhere to live because her parents have maybe kicked her out why would we not house her? If she then needs support to get into work why would we not give her the support? If she needs Income support to help her until she gets into work why wouldnt we let her claim income support?
I was wondering if a logical explanation could be found for the difference between the UK and other west and south european countries?
I can only speak from the experience of Denmark where I lived for a short while and Portugal. In Denmark mothers were young, but adult ( or at least old enough to vote). Many women choose to have their children while at college/uni because the school the frequented provided the services they needed to be able to do this, because they wanted to have their children at a time when it would not interrupt their carreers and because if they waited untill they were established professionally their fertility might be diminuished ( yes, it happens very early for women). They have a spectacular social security that seems ( or seemed) to work when I was there ( I consider it to be a country run by women for women).
Then in Portugal (where teenage pregnancy ocurrs,but in hugely smaller numbers and not at the ages you often see here: 12/13/14, but more at 16/17/18/19), where you can't get female contraceptives on your own if you are underage (parents have to know everything medical), where abortion is illegal ( practiced but illegal, dangerous and very, very expensive), there is no decent social security to speak of (The net has huge holes and no one has ever seen a hammock) and there is a huge stigma to teenage pregnancy.
Both of these countries have VERY LOW numbers of teenage pregnancies compared to Britain. I'd like to know why you all think this is happening?
danc1ngwitch
13-Nov-06, 15:20
Yes sometimes people make mistakes, sometimes some are lazy and sit on the social for years, yes support should come from our families... I have a family that would rather stab u in the back than support u... this is reality... I always dreamt of growing up working best as i could, getting married,, having children ... i always craved a close family... my children are all close... i am close to them also.. if my daughter came home pregnant... i dunno how i'd deal with it... i would support her in wot she would like to do... advise her best i could... wow wot a difficult one..
I found out my little sister who's only a couple of years younger than me was pregnant at 16. I was ashamed. I was angry at her, felt sorry for her, was angry at her man... So many emotions.
She had just turned 17 when she had Callum. She's since had another with her now husband. Callum is autistic and between her and her man, they've worked so hard. Stuart works offshore in a really good job but doesn't get to see with as much of his family as she would like.
I now look back, 7 or 8 years later and I am ashamed at how I felt back then. I am so so proud of my sister. The boys are both beautiful. Callum is the most amazing wee boy ever and Camerson is turning out the same. It makes me so proud whenever I see or speak to my nephews. My sister and Stuart seem so happy and she has grown up so quickly. The thought of having to handle the situations she has handled terrifies me.
My point is that things happen. It's really really easy to judge. Young pregnant numbers can't be given free rides but I think a lot of the time it's hard. A lot of people are perhaps giving their experience without actual experience of how this can affect people's lives. I cannot criticise for that because I would probably be like you. Don't always be so quick to judge. That's for the big man upstairs :)
rockchick
13-Nov-06, 18:35
Not all teenage pregnancy stories end as happy as yours...
My older sister got pregnant at 15 by a man almost 10 years her senior. She wanted to keep the baby, so they got married and had two children, little girls. By the time my lovely sister was 18, she was a divorced single mother having a nervous breakdown cuz of the abuse she'd put up with from that jerk she'd married, and the strain of trying to raise two girls on her own on minimum wage and charity. She lost custody of her girls when she had her breakdown, and spent years trying to get them back. She finally managed to win custody back by proving that that sonnab***ch was sexually abusing her little girls, now 10 and 12 years old. When she finally got them back, her ex was due to be sentenced for child abuse, he chose to commit suicide by crashing his car in my sister's garden, in front of the girls.
Had my sister been a bit older when she became sexually active, she might have made better choices about her life and her situation, and been more able to cope with what life had in store for her.
so no, I'm not a big fan of teenage pregnancy. It's not because I have some high faluting moral code, or ethics, or think that I'm better than anyone else. It's because it's HARD! it takes something that should be wonderful and turns it into a life trial.
I think kids (and a 16 year old is still partly a kid) should have the best chance to grow up first and create their own lives, know who THEY are, before taking on the responsibility of someone else so totally.
mums angels
13-Nov-06, 19:04
Rock chick ...Sounds like your sister had a very rough tim of it.. i do hope she is managing to get on with life now and be happy.
Teenage pregnancy is VERY hard and not something to be taken lightly or be laughed at. I have recently found that some teenage parents do seem to have it easy financaially e.t.c ...which i think is a disgrace ,(some even plan the pregnacy) I never had it easy and would never recommend it to anyone soo young.... I'm just very lucky my story turned out so well.
I think kids (and a 16 year old is still partly a kid) should have the best chance to grow up first and create their own lives, know who THEY are, before taking on the responsibility of someone else so totally.
Well said!
Two of my sisters had babies at 16, they got on very well with the situation and a lot of help from family and friends. However it is not for everyone! Some teenagers think that having a baby is cool!!! This is not the way to look at it. What a life is this kid going to have once the cool phase is over?? Should a baby be a prop, I dont think so!
There are loads of people out there trying for babies and cant have when others abuse the fact they can.
Teenage pregnancies are not for everyone.
Asking for people and their families to take responsibility for there for their actions does not mean the people who posted 'sit on high'.
There seems to be an awful lot of people who are simply wagging the finger and tarring all single parents, especially young single mothers, with the same brush.
There are a lot of young mothers out there who, through no fault of their own, are abandoned and left in that position.
Some do not have families to turn to or who have families who are not fit to turn to.
the attitude some people take towards the problem is little better than "Tarring and Feathering".
In the past such attitudes created the belief that the innocent child should also be stigmatised and set apart from "decent" society.
For a long time I thought such attitudes were a thing of the past but it's obvious that they still linger on.
And there was I thinking we had become a caring society. .
rockchick
it wasnt the fact that your sister was preg at 16 that caused all the trauma.. its just that she choose badly in her partner.
women are in shelters all over the world.. in the same situation.
and many of them are not teenagers. but older women who are in fear of their lives..
children see their mothers killed in front of them all the time by their fathers..
it has nothing to do with the fact that they are young mothers.
your sister became tangled up with teh wrong man.. and it led to disaster.. if it had been the same sit. with a loving caring man who treated her the way she should have been treated .. and the children were treated the way they shoud have been.. it would have been a dif. story.
battery and abuse is not an age related thing.
and it is not something a woman can easily get out of .. no matter what the age.
a woman .. a mature very smart very clever.. woman will stay with a man .. who beats her rapes her tortures her.. and her children out of fear..
and has no way to get out.
so its not an age related thing.
my deepest sympathy for your sister and what she has gone thru . but you can not tar teenage preg. with that brush.
There seems to be an awful lot of people who are simply wagging the finger and tarring all single parents, especially young single mothers, with the same brush.
There are a lot of young mothers out there who, through no fault of their own, are abandoned and left in that position.
Some do not have families to turn to or who have families who are not fit to turn to.
the attitude some people take towards the problem is little better than "Tarring and Feathering".
In the past such attitudes created the belief that the innocent child should also be stigmatised and set apart from "decent" society.
For a long time I thought such attitudes were a thing of the past but it's obvious that they still linger on.
And there was I thinking we had become a caring society. .
With my whole post the part that was cut is in bold.
Asking for people and their families to take responsibility for there for their actions does not mean the people who posted 'sit on high'.
A safety net is VERY important, but it needs to stay that way. It should never be a way of funding a lifestyle. There are many people who need the safety net and don't get enough support and there are people who know how to work the system. Lets get the money where it is needed!
I say again "Lets get the money where it is needed!"
Oh, I think most people had a good idea of where your comments were being aimed well prior to the comments you made which are in bold.
The PC version..
should YOUR high-school-aged daughter...not a member of the ORG or any other organisation, come home and announce that she had "fallen pregnant"...how would you react?
Would you:
(a) be happy for her, in her impending show of fertility, and look forward to becoming a grandparent?
(b) be upset, as she shouldn't be having sexual relations at her age without the benefit of a stable relationship
(c) Be worried, that you might end up supporting her and her child(ren) for the rest of their lives?
I'd be devastated. Simple as that.
Sure, hubby and I would be there for her, and provide what help and advice we could, but in all honesty as a parent I'd feel completely let down. There is no excuse for schoolgirl pregnancies - we all know how they can happen, how to prevent them, and what options are available should an accident inadvertently happen. It's not about being high and mighty, it's about educating your children on the subject, and ensuring they have all the facts AND a clear channel of communication with loving parents/guardians so that, should any potential situations arise, they can discuss them promptly and rationally without fear of judgement.
As for long term support for the gymslip Mum and child, we’d help where we could, but would fully encourage her to continue her studies/chosen career path at the soonest opportunity – taking care of Grandkids in our 40’s may not be in my/my hubby’s long term plans, but whilst our children are still children, they are our responsibility. Once they reach adulthood, I would hope they would already be well on their way without any further help from us.
Weeburd
That is the most sensible reply to date.Helping to educate your children....the boys as well as the girls as to the effects and results of having sex .....and helping them to be prepared and able to communicate with them about it without embarrasment must be a priority.
We all know that when out of the house they can come under extreme peer pressure ( I'm sure that hasn't changed that much from when I was young ), but giving them the confidence Not to be afraid to say 'no' ...or to be 'prepared ' when the time comes when they want to say 'Yes'......it will help make the difference to their future.
Not every young persons life is devastated by a pregnancy however at a time when many are still growing up themselves it certainly isn't going to be easy for them....or for their parents who perhaps like me are looking forward to re-discovering their own selves and their partners when their children finally spread their wings and move on.
I am looking forward to being a 'Granny' when the time comes.........and if my daughters are in happy stable relationships with their own homes,jobs,etc when that happens I will be over the moon......and if not well that's what we parents are here for ....to help them cope as best we / they can.
Dreadnought
14-Nov-06, 09:56
Oh, I think most people had a good idea of where your comments were being aimed well prior to the comments you made which are in bold.
That is nothing but speculation.
Hear hear ...if my child didn't want it i would do it...I was adopted and it was no fun feeling that you were never wanted, child would know that i'm granny though
Thing is mums angels...........were special ! being adopted. we wasnt just conceived but picked aswell. jan x:)
I drive a people carrier ....lol:lol:
So do i , to get my 4 kids, 2 grandsons, hubby, and 4 dogs about. LOL . jan x:lol:
I say again "Lets get the money where it is needed!" and is that not with teenage mothers who have no other source of income?
Dreadnought
14-Nov-06, 10:55
and is that not with teenage mothers who have no other source of income?
Not if they have family to support them. They should take responsibility for their own actions. Why should I, as a taxpayer, have to finance someone else's irresponsibility?
Not if they have family to support them. They should take responsibility for their own actions. Why should I, as a taxpayer, have to finance someone else's irresponsibility?
Because, wether we like it or not, they are children and we are responsible for the safety of our children as a society....both the pregnant ones and the ones born. Those children did not become pregnant because they are a bad apple or because one generation of parents did not educate. They became pregnant because of society's failures as well.
But the fact remains that some of these children plan their pregnancies and then have no intentions of work. Little do they know the work that comes after the 9 months :)
A friend of mine had her baby at 16. She claimed all the benefits under the sun but she also studied to be a nurse while being a mother. She got herself out of her situation eventually by working, it just took time that's all. Maybe if people realised that 'scrounging' is only a temporary measure for many folks then they wouldn't be so scathing.
j4bberw0ck
14-Nov-06, 15:42
If a teenager isn't mature enough to make choices about appropriate contraception, and to carry it through into making sure she doesn't become pregnant, then she's not mature enough to have a child. It seems to have become accepted in today's society that all women have a right to have a child, and that if a woman is pregnant then the baby will be best off with her. I think both statements are wholly wrong.
How to stop it, though, there's the problem. The 1960's / 70's children who grew up with sexual freedom are now having to clean up the mess - and no one has a clue how to do it. Perhaps we could start (and I'm going to upset some folk here) by compulsorily removing the children of anyone under the age of 18 and having them adopted by the huge numbers of people who want, but can't naturally have, a child? Reduce the benefits bill, reduce the cost of IVF on the Health Service, and do something towards making sure the children of the children of 14 / 15 / 16 year olds don't in their turn make the same mistakes.
But I doubt that's a popular viewpoint.
reduce the cost of IVF on the Health Service.
Does this mean that you would remove the free IVF treatments that are currently available to couples?
There are other methods of reducing this cost and that is by a few other draconian methods.
1. Restricting treatment to couples who fit into the optimum age/fitness/intelligence level that is conducive to conception thus promoting success rates.
2. Applying a 'Student loan' principle to IVF treatment.
3. Putting all IVF into the private sector.
4. Pay as you go.
5. Reduce the current free treatments to 1 or 2.
None of which of those is 100% compatible to the NHS 'free treatment for all' ethos on which it was built.
IVF is not free to many couples at all, as I have a child I would have had to pay for it after trying for another for 8 years. I decided the money I would have been used was better spent on my daughters future as opposed to the IVF lottery.
j4bberw0ck
14-Nov-06, 16:15
Does this mean that you would remove the free IVF treatments that are currently available to couples?
Er, whisper it soft........ but yes.
None of which of those is 100% compatible to the NHS 'free treatment for all' ethos on which it was built.
At the risk of going slightly off-topic for a second, as regards the "free" bit, I'll requote P J O'Rourke from this amusing and oh-so-true article (http://www.cato.org/speeches/sp-orourke.html) : "If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free".
And bouncing swiftly back on topic to answer your point, I don't think IVF is 100% compatible with the original principles of the NHS, which were, inter alia, to "improve the health of the nation".
And bouncing swiftly back on topic to answer your point, I don't think IVF is 100% compatible with the original principles of the NHS, which were, inter alia, to "improve the health of the nation".
Can you elaborate?:confused
j4bberw0ck
14-Nov-06, 16:41
Always, mon brave, always :lol: . But the innocent brevity of your question makes me slightly uneasy.....
Because the founding principles were about encouraging healthier lifestyles, eradicating diseases, helping people to understand how to help themselves to live healthier lives, and then, where necessary, treating their illnesses. That was what Bevan had in mind after WW2.
Since, expectation has risen exponentially, costs of treatment and drugs and equipment likewise, and politicians have taken to running the service like some personal fiefdom, whilst making sure they themselves get Private Medical Insurance as a perk. The whole thing is a mess that's short of money.
IVF is a non-essential treatment that's extremely expensive and has a relatively low success rate. Believe it or not, my heart goes out to people desperate for a child who can't conceive naturally. But I don't think it's an NHS issue while, say, women with breast cancer are refused some drugs because they're too expensive.
Always, mon brave, always :lol: . But the innocent brevity of your question makes me slightly uneasy.....
Because the founding principles were about encouraging healthier lifestyles, eradicating diseases, helping people to understand how to help themselves to live healthier lives, and then, where necessary, treating their illnesses. That was what Bevan had in mind after WW2.
Since, expectation has risen exponentially, costs of treatment and drugs and equipment likewise, and politicians have taken to running the service like some personal fiefdom, whilst making sure they themselves get Private Medical Insurance as a perk. The whole thing is a mess that's short of money.
IVF is a non-essential treatment that's extremely expensive and has a relatively low success rate. Believe it or not, my heart goes out to people desperate for a child who can't conceive naturally. But I don't think it's an NHS issue while, say, women with breast cancer are refused some drugs because they're too expensive.
IVF has to be an NHS issue because infertility requires treatment for many couples. Couples rarely go to IVF without other treatement that sometimes works but sometimes doesnt. As an example - a woman being treated for Polycyctic ovary syndrome - an illness which can affect fertility. She gets a variety of treatments but none work. Do we then say - im sorry there is this treatment which will help but you cant have it unless you pay? Although you draw a distinction isnt it actually the same as saying here is a treatment that can alleviate your hepatitis/breast cancer/diabetes but you cant have it unless you pay?
And then you say it is non essential - non essential for whom? the person concerned and needing the treatment wouldnt say it was non essential, the obstetricians treating her wouldnt say it was non essential - without it she would not be able to conceive a child therefore some might argue it is essential
mums angels
14-Nov-06, 17:03
Thing is mums angels...........were special ! being adopted. we wasnt just conceived but picked aswell. jan x:)
Nice way to think about it now that we are grown up and have children of our own but wasn't so nice when we were growing up i'm sure (wasn't for me) but am happy with it now and extremly grateful for the life i was given and now have no intentions of ever tracking down bilological roots:)
j4bberw0ck
14-Nov-06, 17:11
Squidge, I know people affected regard the treatment as essential. But is the inability to conceive, of itself, an illness? It's a circumstance and a sad one; but to simplify it brutally, not having a baby isn't going to cause someone to die, or lose a leg, or a breast, or their vision. Ergo, the treatment shouldn't be at taxpayer's expense. And let's face it, we're not short of people.
To be honest with you, I'm reluctant to pursue this particular line further because I'm sure it's a debate that has the capacity to upset a good number of people. I don't mind winding people up about politics and economics, but something as raw as this isn't fun.
To be honest with you, I'm reluctant to pursue this particular line further because I'm sure it's a debate that has the capacity to upset a good number of people. I don't mind winding people up about politics and economics, but something as raw as this isn't fun.
Ok - ill ease up - maybe its a wider question about NHS funding full stop that should be addressed on a different thread
If she is so stupid as to not take proper precautions and get knocked up, why should I or any taxpayer then have to pay for her and her boyfriend's stupidity? YES her family should support her. Giving her a council house only teaches her, and her generation, that its ok not to take responsibility for your own actions because when it goes wrong the government will give it all to you for free.
you said "if she is so stupid not to take proper precautions" why is it always the girl that the backlash comes to surely it is the lads responibility to take proper precautions also!!! and you say "HER family should support her " why no the lads family and so on... Alot of quotes on this is about the girl all the time surely the lad that got her pregnant also should support her and each other
Nice way to think about it now that we are grown up and have children of our own but wasn't so nice when we were growing up i'm sure (wasn't for me) but am happy with it now and extremly grateful for the life i was given and now have no intentions of ever tracking down bilological roots:)
I did trace my roots....Oh how i wish i hadnt. Grew up as an only child, found out i had 11 siblings of which most have spent time in jail for violence ect. Im 46 now and the second eldest. the older 4 were adopted, she kept the others and that at the time made me really mad.....Why not keep me ....what was wrong with me....wasnt i good enough , i dont have to carry on you ovousley know what im trying to say. Thing is, looking back she did the best thing ever giving me up. Only found out 2 yrs ago she was a , lets call her a" lady of the night." I cant hate her as she gave me life but im sure close to it . ( she died aged 62 a few years back ) jan x
rockchick
14-Nov-06, 19:42
rockchick
it wasnt the fact that your sister was preg at 16 that caused all the trauma.. its just that she choose badly in her partner.
women are in shelters all over the world.. in the same situation.
and many of them are not teenagers. but older women who are in fear of their lives..
children see their mothers killed in front of them all the time by their fathers..
it has nothing to do with the fact that they are young mothers.
your sister became tangled up with teh wrong man.. and it led to disaster.. if it had been the same sit. with a loving caring man who treated her the way she should have been treated .. and the children were treated the way they shoud have been.. it would have been a dif. story.
battery and abuse is not an age related thing.
and it is not something a woman can easily get out of .. no matter what the age.
a woman .. a mature very smart very clever.. woman will stay with a man .. who beats her rapes her tortures her.. and her children out of fear..
and has no way to get out.
so its not an age related thing.
my deepest sympathy for your sister and what she has gone thru . but you can not tar teenage preg. with that brush.
Brandy,
Had my sister NOT become pregnant, my sister's relationship with that man would have been of much shorter duration; she would have seen the light, learned her lesson and moved on with her life, same as anyone else does when they date badly. That is one of the reasons people date - to "try" other people on. However BECAUSE of the pregnancy she became legally bound to him, and the chain of events started.
I think it IS age related, because as we grow socially, date other people, we obtain life skills. Not to mention that had she not been 15 she probably wouldn't have attracted someone who turned out to be a paedophile (what normal 25 year old dates a 15 year old girl?). At an older age, she would have known herself better, and been in a better position to make good choices. Getting married because of your parent's religious values is not something a mature person does!
Had she not become a "young mother" as you call it, she most likely would have finished high school as the 'A' student she'd started out to be, gone to her prom, probably would have continued being a star athlete...university...who knows what she would have accomplished in her life. Certainly her chances of achieve any or all of these would have been greater - she certainly had the potential!
changilass
14-Nov-06, 20:21
The type of man who got his claws into your sister would not have allowed her to leave wether she was pregnant or not. That is how that type of predatory male works. What happened to your sister was nothing to do with being pregnant as a teenager.
There are many folk who have had teenage pregnancies that have gone on to have a very good life.
mums angels
14-Nov-06, 20:35
I did trace my roots....Oh how i wish i hadnt. Grew up as an only child, found out i had 11 siblings of which most have spent time in jail for violence ect. Im 46 now and the second eldest. the older 4 were adopted, she kept the others and that at the time made me really mad.....Why not keep me ....what was wrong with me....wasnt i good enough , i dont have to carry on you ovousley know what im trying to say. Thing is, looking back she did the best thing ever giving me up. Only found out 2 yrs ago she was a , lets call her a" lady of the night." I cant hate her as she gave me life but im sure close to it . ( she died aged 62 a few years back ) jan x
yes I too got the relevant information that I needed from the adoption agency in order to trace bilogical famliy members but when i read circumstances surrounding my adoption (battered baby as they put ) it. I no longer wanted to meet the woman , who would want to meet someone like that (i also had a older sibling that had been taken from her a year before i was born) she was not a teenage mother she was 24 - I had my first child at 16 and never laid a rough hand on her !!! I also do not Hate her for the same reasons as you but by god i'd never give her the time of day if i met her. :D
you said "if she is so stupid not to take proper precautions" why is it always the girl that the backlash comes to surely it is the lads responibility to take proper precautions also!!! and you say "HER family should support her " why no the lads family and so on... Alot of quotes on this is about the girl all the time surely the lad that got her pregnant also should support her and each otherDon't be a spoil sport, young. Fancy trying to introducing some sense into the subject.
Besides, it's much more fun watching the Pack baying for Blood.
Let's hang all Teenage Mothers as a warning to others! Roll up! Roll up! Join in the fun!
I'm slightly confused here. The girl in question is "High School Age". If she is 16 or over then she can legally get married and have a child then. So she's an adult, yes? Why, then, all this talk about her being a child?
you said "if she is so stupid not to take proper precautions" why is it always the girl that the backlash comes to surely it is the lads responibility to take proper precautions also!!! and you say "HER family should support her " why no the lads family and so on... Alot of quotes on this is about the girl all the time surely the lad that got her pregnant also should support her and each other
Excellent of you to point that out. How many of these boys have multiple children from several girls and aren't in the least worried about their responsibilities (probably have only the vaguest notion of the meaning of this word).
I have asked someone this before, but they didn't know to answer me.... if a mother will not name a father or if the person she names deneis being the father, is everything done to determine parantage by the state??? In Portugal unknown fathers are "not allowed" on birth certificates. If a mother refuses to name a father or says she does not know or if a potencial father refuses paternity, there is a court process with an investigation that is very stressful for the mother. I know a lass in Portugal who's boyfriend was/is a junkie. They were childhood sweethearts and she kept taking him back. But when she fell pregnant ( at a very respectful 26) she decided her child should not be exposed to a drug addict father. When the baby was born she told the courts she did not know who the father was and was subject to a difficult interrogation and investigation of her life and they got back to her ex which was named the father.
I ask because I have a feeling that there are so many stories of going out for a drink with an unknown dad and going home with a very drunk mum are very frequent, as are girls that cannot name a father because of multiple partners or just because they don't want the hassle of putting up with the ex who they broke up with before they knew they were pregnant. It's very easy to exclude the fathers or have them auto-exclude themselves from their parental responsibilities, but this might be me seeing things from a partial point of view.
Oh, I think most people had a good idea of where your comments were being aimed well prior to the comments you made which are in bold.
You have made it clear in your posting that you think there is some ulterior motive to mine, and other peoples thoughts and opinions on this thread.
I thought my comments were very clear but I would love to know where you think my comments were "being aimed". Please do tell!
and is that not with teenage mothers who have no other source of income?
My concern is with people who abuse the system....maybe there are a lot maybe a few but they should be stopped.
Basic support should be there for those who need it, whoever they are.
Tubthumper
14-Nov-06, 22:27
With great trepidation I throw this into the discussion:
Bearing in mind the general drop-off in the birthrate in this country, is it not true that ALL children born (regardless of the circumstances of conception or support) are crucial to making sure that someone can be employed to wipe my bot and feed me soup when I am 90 years old and in a home. That's assuming I get that far...
With great trepidation I throw this into the discussion:
Bearing in mind the general drop-off in the birthrate in this country, is it not true that ALL children born (regardless of the circumstances of conception or support) are crucial to making sure that someone can be employed to wipe my bot and feed me soup when I am 90 years old and in a home. That's assuming I get that far...
Children often emulate their parents. If the child born, in turn becomes a teenage parent living on benefits, then a grandmother at the ripe old age of 30, a greatgrandmother aged 45 and a great great grandmother aged 60, with all offspring and offspring of offspring living on benefits, then I doubt there will be money to buy you toilet paper, nevermind someone paid to keep your tush clean. The cycles need to be broken.
j4bberw0ck
14-Nov-06, 22:41
Well said, indeed! http://www.teddies.be/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rofl.gif
mums angels
14-Nov-06, 22:53
Children often emulate their parents. If the child born, in turn becomes a teenage parent living on benefits, then a grandmother at the ripe old age of 30, a greatgrandmother aged 45 and a great great grandmother aged 60, with all offspring and offspring of offspring living on benefits, then I doubt there will be money to buy you toilet paper, nevermind someone paid to keep your tush clean. The cycles need to be broken.
cycles need to be broken yes ...but alot of people on here are complaining about teenage pregnancys saying that they are irresponsible ( i do not recommend teenage pregnancy) but maybe if the parents knew what their kids were up to they could stop them having sex so young...most young girls lose their virginity well before they are 16 ...i wonder how many of you have teenage daughters and don't have a clue what they are up too when your not about . And just because i had my child at 16 it does not mean that she will get pregnant at a young age...
cycles need to be broken yes ...but alot of people on here are complaining about teenage pregnancys saying that they are irresponsible ( i do not recommend teenage pregnancy) but maybe if the parents knew what their kids were up to they could stop them having sex so young...most young girls lose their virginity well before they are 16 ...i wonder how many of you have teenage daughters and don't have a clue what they are up too when your not about . And just because i had my child at 16 it does not mean that she will get pregnant at a young age...
I did use the often and not always.Nothing is absolute. HOWEVER it is a FACT that what you grow up observing everyday becomes normalized.
It's easier to understand what I am saying if you think of violence. A child growing up in a violent household will be more likely to be violent than another that doesn't. It also means that some children growing up in violent households will make sure that they are the absolute oposite. And some children growing up in non violent households will turn out to be murderers. The same applies to children who observe their parents on benefits and mothers when children themselves.
Not all teenage pregnancy stories end as happy as yours...
My older sister got pregnant at 15 by a man almost 10 years her senior. She wanted to keep the baby, so they got married and had two children, little girls. By the time my lovely sister was 18, she was a divorced single mother having a nervous breakdown cuz of the abuse she'd put up with from that jerk she'd married, and the strain of trying to raise two girls on her own on minimum wage and charity. She lost custody of her girls when she had her breakdown, and spent years trying to get them back. She finally managed to win custody back by proving that that sonnab***ch was sexually abusing her little girls, now 10 and 12 years old. When she finally got them back, her ex was due to be sentenced for child abuse, he chose to commit suicide by crashing his car in my sister's garden, in front of the girls.
Had my sister been a bit older when she became sexually active, she might have made better choices about her life and her situation, and been more able to cope with what life had in store for her.
so no, I'm not a big fan of teenage pregnancy. It's not because I have some high faluting moral code, or ethics, or think that I'm better than anyone else. It's because it's HARD! it takes something that should be wonderful and turns it into a life trial.
I think kids (and a 16 year old is still partly a kid) should have the best chance to grow up first and create their own lives, know who THEY are, before taking on the responsibility of someone else so totally.
Your poor sister, how awful for her. I hope she is OK now and that the swine is in hell forever...I hope it exists for people like that.
:~(
mums angels
14-Nov-06, 23:23
I did use the often and not always.Nothing is absolute. HOWEVER it is a FACT that what you grow up observing everyday becomes normalized.
It's easier to understand what I am saying if you think of violence. A child growing up in a violent household will be more likely to be violent than another that doesn't. It also means that some children growing up in violent households will make sure that they are the absolute oposite. And some children growing up in non violent households will turn out to be murderers. The same applies to children who observe their parents on benefits and mothers when children themselves.
I understand what your saying but it really depends on how the situation is handled by the parent my mother was in her 30's when she would have "had" me and was 25 and married when she had her 1st and i was the 1st and only teenage pregnancy in the family so i never learnt it anywhere..problem is is that people are having sex soo much earleir their parents arn't even thinking about it ( i know of a 14 yr old that is sexually active -its scary ) parents should be aware how young girls are these days and watch out for it...talk to them be honest....try to get through to them without lecturing them. I'm sure that if i handle the situation with my daugher right she won't get pregnant so young but i will NOT be a niave parent like so many others I know.
I'd also like to say that my sister now has children and in my opinion i have done alot better for myself and my children than she has (i'm in a stable relationship, financially dependant - no benifits e.tc -none of which she is and she was 26 when she had her 1st .
You have made it clear in your posting that you think there is some ulterior motive to mine, and other peoples thoughts and opinions on this thread.
I thought my comments were very clear but I would love to know where you think my comments were "being aimed". Please do tell!
Asking for people and their families to take responsibility for there for their actions does not mean the people who posted 'sit on high'.
A safety net is VERY important, but it needs to stay that way. It should never be a way of funding a lifestyle. There are many people who need the safety net and don't get enough support and there are people who know how to work the system. Lets get the money where it is needed!
Well, I assume they are not at mothers in their twenties. Or am I mistaken in that?
As for fishing for me to suggest somebody in particular then there is one slight problem there. I can’t say that I know any teenage young ladies in Caithness, pregnant or otherwise, although I will admit that I tend not to enquire about the age of any young ladies who happen to serve me in shops. I don’t really think it my place to stick my nose into their private lives. Perhaps that’s why I seem to miss out on any Scandal in the area but then again, I was taught it was rude to stick my nose into other people’s private business unless it was to offer discrete help! (Such quaint. old fashioned ideas, I really should try to be more modern)
All I see as an assumption by some that all teenagers who become pregnant have done something wrong in some way or have some wish to be kept at the expense of society.
As another poster has pointed out, the law allows people to marry at sixteen, admittedly with their parent's or guardian's consent.
Perhaps we should go back to the days of reaching for the Shotgun over the fire place and condemning women to a lifetime of unhappy marriage! then again, that would involve adopting the attitude that it was unforgivable for a woman to leave her husband, whatever the circumstances and if she did it would mean that she was a, shh! Whisper it, "A Divorcee" so she must be a "Loose Woman" and to be in her company meant you were "not a decent person!" (Ah, the good old days when there were high moral standards and everything was wonderful) [lol]
Teenage pregnancy, although you would think it was a recent invention, is nothing new.
For those who really do think it is a modern phenomenon then you should check your history.
It’s not too many years ago that it came to light that many elderly women who had spent all their adult lives in Mental Institutions were found to have been put there by either their families or the Authorities as being “Morally Defective”, I believe was the term used.
Translation:- They had been young unmarried mothers and were shut away because they were an embarrassment to their families because such things didn't happen to "nice" girls!
My Mother once complained to my Grandmother (who was born in the early 1870s) about the number of pregnant, unmarried teenagers in the 1950s. She was told, “My dear, it was just the same in my days but it was covered up by layers and layers of skirts and the girl went to visit relatives in the country for the sake of her health!”
That’s why there were Orphanages and Foundling’s Hospitals all over the place. Those who were too poor to go away to the Country dumped their babies outside the Foundling’s Hospital or local Orphanage.
Either that or they drank excessive amounts of “Mother’s Ruin”. (Gin)
Then, of course, there was always the method of risking your life with somebody who had an “instant cure” to make the problem go away.
It’s not all that long ago that if a girl was not married by the time she was 19 or 20 she was considered to be risking being ”left on the shelf” and becoming an “old maid”.
No, teenage pregnancies never happened before now, it’s all because things are made too easy in this day and age.
Perhaps we ought to go back to the Good Old Days when people knew how to deal with such things.
Anybody think so?
Whitewater
15-Nov-06, 01:17
Teenagers have become pregnant in the past, they become pregnant now and will continue to do so in the future. It is just life, some are lucky and have supportive parents and/or boyfriends, others may have been taken advantage of by dirty old married men who don't give a hoot and have no intention of supporting them or the baby. What they need is help and support to get them through what must be terrible time for them, not knowing what the future holds or how their friends and family are going to react. I don't think we should be condemning them. How many of us have just been "Lucky" in our teenage years that we did not become fathers or mothers. Many of us tend to have very short memories as far as our own teenage years are concerned and are rather too quick to condemn others for falling into a condition which many of us just missed by good luck rather than good behaviour.
IVF is a non-essential treatment that's extremely expensive and has a relatively low success rate.
Incorrect on both counts. IVF is actually more successful than the good old fashioned method.
But is the inability to conceive, of itself, an illness?
Illness? Some people cannot conceive due to physical injury, to extrapolate that principle then you are advocating not doing a whole load of things for disabled people, some treatments are more expensive than IVF treatment which costs ~£2500 per treatment.
j4bberw0ck
15-Nov-06, 01:45
Then I bow to your superior knowledge. It was my understanding that since age is the most crucial factor in successful IVF treatments and success rates fall off sharply in older women, and yet it's older women who mainly pursue IVF (or receive it free on the NHS) having tried everything else, that the overall success rate is low.
However, as ever I'm happy to be corrected if you can show your figures to be correct.
j4bberw0ck
15-Nov-06, 01:47
to extrapolate that principle then you are advocating not doing a whole load of things for disabled people
Sorry, Rheggers, did you read what I said or merely scan it? I thought I wrote in English.....:lol:
Extrapolation can be misleading.
However, as ever I'm happy to be corrected if you can show your figures to be correct.
I've been racking the brain now I know where I read that IVF was more successful than you know what.
IVF article (http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/mg19225741.300-reproduction-revolution-sex-for-fun-ivf-for-children.html)
Well, I assume they are not at mothers in their twenties. Or am I mistaken in that?
I said it in an earlier post I will say it again:
My concern is with people who abuse the system....maybe there are a lot maybe a few but they should be stopped.
Basic support should be there for those who need it, whoever they are.
As for your post
As for fishing for me to suggest somebody in particular then there is one slight problem there.
I am not "Fishing" for you to suggest anybody. You made an accusation towards me:
Oh, I think most people had a good idea of where your comments were being aimed well prior to the comments you made which are in bold.
I only asked you to clarify what you are accusing me of.
rockchick
15-Nov-06, 21:53
Teenage pregnancy, although you would think it was a recent invention, is nothing new.
Prostitution, poverty, or abuse are nothing new either...but it doesn't make them right.
Given the choice, if a person is going to start a family, it is usually best to wait until they are on their own two feet personally, socially and financially. Note the phrasing..."given the choice"! The difference between the times you mention and today is that by and large women HAVE the choice over their reproductive ability, if they have the strength and the presence of mind to make those choices.
Given the choice, if a person is going to start a family, it is usually best to wait until they are on their own two feet personally, socially and financially.
I was married at 22 years old my wife was 20, we both had jobs, but when we became parents I was 23 amd my wife was 21. In Oct 1963 we celebrated our 1st wedding anniversary, my wifes 21st birthday and the birth of our first son. We were not prepared for the trauma of parenthood, and we were not children, no one can be prepared for parenthood.
We have now been married for 44 years, not always happily, as we have learned how to become a partnership, it has been traumatic at times. Even now I am still learning, coping with 3 teenage grandaughters and 1 aged 6 is something I would not wish on any one.
My point Rockchick is that no matter how old you are, begoming a parent for the first time is not easy, and if I had the choice again, I definately would have planned my family a bit better.
pedromcgrory
16-Nov-06, 02:32
What really annoys me is why if someone who has been on benefits, for say 15 years, all of a sudden decides to get off their backside and get a job, when they go to buy their council house, they will get the 15 years discount even though the state has paid the rent for the previous 15 years? Why do they get any discount at all when they havn't worked to pay the rent? [evil]
first answer to a post uve made in while which i feel is true connie ,no offence as u do reply some mmmm a lot but i agree wot u say
Prostitution, poverty, or abuse are nothing new either...but it doesn't make them right.
Given the choice, if a person is going to start a family, it is usually best to wait until they are on their own two feet personally, socially and financially. Note the phrasing..."given the choice"! The difference between the times you mention and today is that by and large women HAVE the choice over their reproductive ability, if they have the strength and the presence of mind to make those choices.
Prostitution and abuse are illegal and the State makes at least a pretence of trying to alleviate poverty.
I take it you equate prostitution, poverty and abuse with teenage pregnancy.
You make many assumptions about all teenage mothers which are not necessarily correct.
I have no wish to go into modern methods of preventing pregnancies because that opens a whole different can of worms involving belief systems. Besides, many methods have been available for a lot longer than you obviously think they have.
So far all you have shown is your own particular bias on the subject by indicating that all teenage mothers are exactly alike.
That is as creditable as saying they are all blonde, blue eyed and five feet two inches tall.
You are entitled to your opinion of who should become pregnant and when, however, others have different views and are equally entitled to them.
There are many things that people do which I find objectionable but, providing there is no law against what they are doing, I have not got the right to demand they do not continue doing such things anymore than they have a right to tell me how to live my life.
Personally, I have enough to think about taking care of my life without sticking my nose, unwanted, into other peoples. I certainly would not thank any outsider for interfering or commenting on my family even in a generalised manner. If they did they would get very short sharp answers and would not need a dictionary to interpret what I meant.
Post 1
The PC version..
should YOUR high-school-aged daughter...not a member of the ORG or any other organisation, come home and announce that she had "fallen pregnant"...how would you react?
Would you:
(a) be happy for her, in her impending show of fertility, and look forward to becoming a grandparent?
(b) be upset, as she shouldn't be having sexual relations at her age without the benefit of a stable relationship
(c) Be worried, that you might end up supporting her and her child(ren) for the rest of their lives?
The above is the original question which started this thread. I would therefore assume that any comments about the other side issues raised are intended to be in relation to the “PC version”, whatever that should refer to. II assume it refers to something, though I am at a loss to know what.
After many Posts, many very uncomplimentary and often accusatory, about the subject, I Posted:-
Post 52
I am extremely impressed by the number of people who live their lives by such high standards and strict morals.
I only wish I were so perfect, it must create such a wonderful feeling of superiority.
One thing I am certain about, come the Day of Judgement I shall make sure I am sent as far as possible in the opposite direction.
I just couldn't face the thought of having to wear a Halo that was that tight!
There then followed:-
Post 57
Sarcasm aside, how is expecting people to take responsibility for their actions an unreachably high standard and strict morals????
There are so many issues involved with teenage pregnancy...birth control, social pressure, financial issues, the needs of the mother vs. the needs of the taxpayer...an open and honest discussion about some of the options available can only be a good thing.
There were then some Posts concerning awareness of being a single parent.
Post 62
Been there, done that and know the feelings. Only in my case it was a permanent full time condition.
The assumption that all single parents are simply intent on "Living off the State" is just a different variation of the outdated ideas that they should be shunned and stigmatised.
In years gone by people with the same mindset would have stigmatised anybody who was divorced in a similar manner.
It must be a great feeling to be able to sit on high and throw abuse at the "less worth" members of Society knowing that you are above such behaviour.
I might also add that I was, from the age of 10 brought up by a single parent at a time when there was only minimal assistance from the State and Councils were not about to fall over themselves to give any special treatment with respect to being given a Council House. As a result, all the bleating about everybody having to pay for teenage mothers, as far as I am concerned, is totally irrelevant as is all the finger-wagging and tut tutting.
Post 63
Asking for people and their families to take responsibility for there for their actions does not mean the people who posted 'sit on high'.
A safety net is VERY important, but it needs to stay that way. It should never be a way of funding a lifestyle. There are many people who need the safety net and don't get enough support and there are people who know how to work the system. Lets get the money where it is needed!
Post 69
I think kids (and a 16 year old is still partly a kid) should have the best chance to grow up first and create their own lives, know who THEY are, before taking on the responsibility of someone else so totally.
Post 71
Well said!
Post 73
There seems to be an awful lot of people who are simply wagging the finger and tarring all single parents, especially young single mothers, with the same brush.
There are a lot of young mothers out there who, through no fault of their own, are abandoned and left in that position.
Some do not have families to turn to or who have families who are not fit to turn to.
the attitude some people take towards the problem is little better than "Tarring and Feathering".
In the past such attitudes created the belief that the innocent child should also be stigmatised and set apart from "decent" society.
For a long time I thought such attitudes were a thing of the past but it's obvious that they still linger on.
And there was I thinking we had become a caring society. .
Post 75
With my whole post the part that was cut is in bold.
Asking for people and their families to take responsibility for there for their actions does not mean the people who posted 'sit on high'.
A safety net is VERY important, but it needs to stay that way. It should never be a way of funding a lifestyle. There are many people who need the safety net and don't get enough support and there are people who know how to work the system. Lets get the money where it is needed!
I say again "Lets get the money where it is needed!"
Most of the other relevant posts are recent enough for posters to check back through.
Post 121
I only asked you to clarify what you are accusing me of.
Oh dear, I didn't realise I was accusing you of anything. I will say again, “Well, I assume they are not at mothers in their twenties. Or am I mistaken in that?”
I think it is very clear that you are aiming your posts at Teenage Mothers. That is what the thread is about as the original post states quite clearly.
My Post 73 was mainly in response to Posts 69 and 71.
Had I been making any sort of accusation I can assure you that there would be no need to ask for clarification because I would be quite specific about it.
I have numbered the Posts in order that they can be easily found and the context checked along with the content of other posts made at the same time.
By doing that, people can check if I have taken things out of context.
Getting pregnant at too young an age I certainly not recommend but I certainly will not join in the rush to condemn them as being nothing more than scheming, self- centred, grasping waste of space living at everybody else’s expense.
As with the vast majority of generalisations the many are given the abuse only deserved by the few, but it’s so much more satisfying to give the impression that they are all the same and aren’t we so much better for not behaving in such a disgraceful and silly manner.
Dreadnought
16-Nov-06, 09:46
Gosh. That certainly changed my mind. :roll: Lots of 'oh poor me...' stories. Well wake up, I don't care. If teenagers are so stupid as to conceive a child without the means to support it, then that is not my problem and I see no reason why I, through taxation, should have to carry the responsibility for their stupidity.
You pay your taxes partly to fund a welfare system which supports those people in need. As a society we have a responsibility to provide support for people who find themselves in difficulties. No longer can a teenage mum claim income support at 16 and then sit their with no one bothering her or asking her what she is doing about work until that child reaches 16. That doesnt happen any more. People are encouraged to train and find work. Thats the reality of the situation
You pay your taxes partly to fund a welfare system which supports those people in need. As a society we have a responsibility to provide support for people who find themselves in difficulties. No longer can a teenage mum claim income support at 16 and then sit their with no one bothering her or asking her what she is doing about work until that child reaches 16. That doesnt happen any more. People are encouraged to train and find work. Thats the reality of the situationSquidge, do stop introducing reality into the subject. Didn't they teach you the rules?
If the lie is more sensational than the truth then print the lie! More people will want to believe it!
Dreadnought
16-Nov-06, 19:11
You pay your taxes partly to fund a welfare system which supports those people in need. As a society we have a responsibility to provide support for people who find themselves in difficulties. No longer can a teenage mum claim income support at 16 and then sit their with no one bothering her or asking her what she is doing about work until that child reaches 16. That doesnt happen any more. People are encouraged to train and find work. Thats the reality of the situation
Aw diddums! Were they all forced to have unprotected sex? Or did they, through no fault of their own happen to just trip and fall, landing accidentally on their boyfriend's member? Here's a clue, no.
mums angels
16-Nov-06, 20:04
Aw diddums! Were they all forced to have unprotected sex? Or did they, through no fault of their own happen to just trip and fall, landing accidentally on their boyfriend's member? Here's a clue, no.
No contraception is 100% fool proof you know....I was on the pill when i fell pregnant...and yes i took it correctly....so i suppose its ALL my fault is it?
Getting pregnant at too young an age I certainly not recommend but I certainly will not join in the rush to condemn them as being nothing more than scheming, self- centred, grasping waste of space living at everybody else’s expense.
Very confusing post, and I am unsure what you are trying to say.
At least at the end I can say that you and I are saying the same thing. It seems you are coming form a single parent view and perhaps that has clouded your view so you see every comment about a single parent as an accusation I don't know.
Dreadnought
16-Nov-06, 20:27
No contraception is 100% fool proof you know....I was on the pill when i fell pregnant...and yes i took it correctly....so i suppose its ALL my fault is it?
It certainly isn't my fault, so why should I have to foot the bill?
Very confusing post, and I am unsure what you are trying to say.
At least at the en I can say that you and I are saying the same thing. It seems you are coming form a single parent view and perhaps that has clouded your view so you see every comment about a single parent as an accusation I don't know.
Your unsure? Well I am not, you have continually had a go at "Single Parents" throughout this thread, just what is your problem? IMO Single Parents or teenage Mothers are very low down my particular "have a go at" list. I would rather have a go at the people in Scotland/Uk/Caithness who will not work or look for work, they are a bigger drain on the tax-payer than a wee lassagie who got pregnant at 16. And as stated in another thread this can easily be rectified by a telephone call, the wee lassagies silly mistake cannot be so easily rectified I admit.
My Post 73 was mainly in response to Posts 69 and 71.
post 69 and 71 say the same thing you are saying here!
Getting pregnant at too young an age I certainly not recommend
You wouldn't recommend it and neither would I. I agreed with Rockchick because I believe (and it appears you do to) in what she said "I think kids (and a 16 year old is still partly a kid) should have the best chance to grow up first and create their own lives, know who THEY are, before taking on the responsibility of someone else so totally."
With my whole post the part that was cut is in bold.
Asking for people and their families to take responsibility for there for their actions does not mean the people who posted 'sit on high'.
A safety net is VERY important, but it needs to stay that way. It should never be a way of funding a lifestyle. There are many people who need the safety net and don't get enough support and there are people who know how to work the system. Lets get the money where it is needed!
I say again "Lets get the money where it is needed!"
Oh, I think most people had a good idea of where your comments were being aimed well prior to the comments you made which are in bold.
Please explain 'where my comments are being aimed'. You are accusing me of something here and I don't like it.
I will say it again There are many people who need support and there are some who abuse the system. I want to see the money going to those that need it WHOEVER they are.
I think you are letting your own bias affect how you are viewing other's posts.
Your unsure? Well I am not, you have continually had a go at "Single Parents" throughout this thread, just what is your problem? IMO Single Parents or teenage Mothers are very low down my particular "have a go at" list. I would rather have a go at the people in Scotland/Uk/Caithness who will not work or look for work, they are a bigger drain on the tax-payer than a wee lassagie who got pregnant at 16. And as stated in another thread this can easily be rectified by a telephone call, the wee lassagies silly mistake cannot be so easily rectified I admit.
When have I had a go at single parents?
mums angels
16-Nov-06, 20:51
It certainly isn't my fault, so why should I have to foot the bill?
No its NOT your fault..i never said it was...you tell me what would you have had me done??? had an abortion or giving her up for adoption...i'll tell you what you come round and tell her that !!! I was on minimum benifits and my boyfreind was earning and we got off benfits as quickly as we could. You should be more worried about your taxes going to junkies, layabouts and fraudsters...
And i'll bet my hubby pays more tax than you and i don't hear him compalining when a young girl gets into trouble ...but then again My hubby has a heart !!!!!
Dreadnought
16-Nov-06, 21:03
No its NOT your fault..i never said it was...you tell me what would you have had me done??? had an abortion or giving her up for adoption...i'll tell you what you come round and tell her that !!! I was on minimum benifits and my boyfreind was earning and we got off benfits as quickly as we could. You should be more worried about your taxes going to junkies, layabouts and fraudsters...
And i'll bet my hubby pays more tax than you and i don't hear him compalining when a young girl gets into trouble ...but then again My hubby has a heart !!!!!
Now you're just rambling. I said I see no reason I should have to pay for others' stupidity. From that you have made a bunch of moronic, and I might add, incorrect assumptions. I'm done trying to explain it to you.
mums angels
16-Nov-06, 21:11
Now you're just rambling. I said I see no reason I should have to pay for others' stupidity. From that you have made a bunch of moronic, and I might add, incorrect assumptions. I'm done trying to explain it to you.
...you have NOT explained anything to me ..i picked up on your post about the fact that you said teenage pregnancy was caused by unprotected sex..and i was just pointing out that in MY case and i'm sure many others i was careful so i asked YOU was it ALL my fault and what could i have done other than claim benifits in the short term.
Your the moron that assumed that ALL teenage pregnancys are caused by unprotected sex.
Now you're just rambling. I said I see no reason I should have to pay for others' stupidity. From that you have made a bunch of moronic, and I might add, incorrect assumptions. I'm done trying to explain it to you.
Do you drive?
rockchick
16-Nov-06, 21:14
Jaws, are you possibly mixing myself and Tristan up? We are not the same person, so I'm not certain why you are quoting both of us while justifying...whatever it is you are justifying.
Getting pregnant at too young an age I certainly not recommend
Glad to see you FINALLY agree with my point. sheesh. Took you awhile, but you finally got there in the end. Amazing what can happen with a lack of sarcasm, isn't it?
When have I had a go at single parents?
Oh Tristan, I do humbly apologise, you are right, I got you confused with rockchick, the rhetoric is so similar.
Jaws, are you possibly mixing myself and Tristan up? We are not the same person, so I'm not certain why you are quoting both of us while justifying...whatever it is you are justifying.
Glad to see you FINALLY agree with my point. sheesh. Took you awhile, but you finally got there in the end. Amazing what can happen with a lack of sarcasm, isn't it?
I was simply used the quotes so people knew what I was referring to and to refresh minds as to how the thread started.
There are a lot of things in life that people do which I consider not to be the best of ideas.
That does not, however, give me the right to bully, insult, abuse or pillory people who happen to do things I do not agree with because I do not necessarily know the full details of a particular individuals circumstances and, even where I do i would never dream of discussing such matters in public.
To make an assumption that all people in a particular category or situation must be pictured in the same way is absolutely ridiculous as some posts on this thread have shown.
Indeed, some posters who have been in the position that the thread was originally about, have displayed that many of the accusations which have been aimed at teenage mothers in general are nothing more than simple prejudice and an attempt to tar all those in such circumstances in the worst possible light.
I'm not sure which point I am supposed to be agreeing with. I have simply said that I personally would not encourage teenage pregnancy but that does not give me the right to be abusive towards those who are in that situation. That is a completely different matter and something I would consider to be nothing more than complete arrogance.
On almost every other point you have made I could not disagree more and I certainly do not believe that any girl who is sixteen or older should receive any criticism from me for being pregnant because, quite bluntly, it’s nobody else’s business provided they are not breaking the law and then it is up to the appropriate authorities to take any necessary action.
You certainly have no support from me on almost any of the points you have made and I would be horrified if anybody else thought I did.
At no stage have I even hinted that anybody is posting under two different names on this thread. The only time I gave any connection between your posts and Tristan's was where Tristan indicated a direct agreement with one of your posts. Other than that the only thing I noticed was that you had similar ideas, but that can be said of any number of posters on many different subjects.
Where you got the idea I thought you were both the same person I cannot conceive.
Tristan, I think my point was fairly clear to anybody who has been following the tread. I don't know if anybody else is confused by my post but it is there for anybody to read.
My views on single parents are certainly not clouded because of any situation I have been in and if you think it is then you labouring under a complete misapprehension.
I was well past my teenage years when I was in that situation but it does show how easily people fall into the trap of falling into preconceived and false ideas about others. I’m just glad I didn’t mention that I also have experience of being brought up as a child in a single parent family. No doubt the conclusion would have been that my mother was a feckless teenager who didn’t know what she was doing instead of a 28 year old married woman when I was born.
People can very easily let their perceptions be clouded by certain situations and immediately assume one particular set of circumstances must be identical for all others.
The idea that because I or somebody close to me did something and it went wrong therefore anybody doing a similar thing must be stupid is a ridiculous idea.
I am just glad that most people have more sense than that because, if they didn’t we would have moved back into caves once the first hut burned down, although I sometimes wonder if we all really have made that move.
goldenguernsey
17-Nov-06, 05:02
We have single parents because life happens, it's as simple as that.
I think you are letting your own bias affect how you are viewing other's posts.
My views on single parents are certainly not clouded because of any situation
I never said your views on single parents I said your views on other people's posts.
I am not as vocal on my views as you are and have tended to limit my opinions on this thread to how I would feel if it was my daughter got pregnant (devastated but I would support her), that all people who truly need support should get it, that getting pregnant as a teenager is not the best idea, and the last thing I have done is questioned certain accusations against me.
rockchick
17-Nov-06, 07:29
I was simply used the quotes so people knew what I was referring to and to refresh minds as to how the thread started.
There are a lot of things in life that people do which I consider not to be the best of ideas.
That does not, however, give me the right to bully, insult, abuse or pillory people who happen to do things I do not agree with because I do not necessarily know the full details of a particular individuals circumstances and, even where I do i would never dream of discussing such matters in public.
To make an assumption that all people in a particular category or situation must be pictured in the same way is absolutely ridiculous as some posts on this thread have shown.
Indeed, some posters who have been in the position that the thread was originally about, have displayed that many of the accusations which have been aimed at teenage mothers in general are nothing more than simple prejudice and an attempt to tar all those in such circumstances in the worst possible light.
I'm not sure which point I am supposed to be agreeing with. I have simply said that I personally would not encourage teenage pregnancy but that does not give me the right to be abusive towards those who are in that situation. That is a completely different matter and something I would consider to be nothing more than complete arrogance.
On almost every other point you have made I could not disagree more and I certainly do not believe that any girl who is sixteen or older should receive any criticism from me for being pregnant because, quite bluntly, it’s nobody else’s business provided they are not breaking the law and then it is up to the appropriate authorities to take any necessary action.
You certainly have no support from me on almost any of the points you have made and I would be horrified if anybody else thought I did.
At no stage have I even hinted that anybody is posting under two different names on this thread. The only time I gave any connection between your posts and Tristan's was where Tristan indicated a direct agreement with one of your posts. Other than that the only thing I noticed was that you had similar ideas, but that can be said of any number of posters on many different subjects.
Where you got the idea I thought you were both the same person I cannot conceive.
I don't believe I have in any way bullied, insulted, pilloried or abused any person in this thread, and I am insulted by your implication that I have done so.
I raised a question in this thread - how would you as a parent react if your teenage daughter came home pregnant - and, later on put forth my view, that most teenagers are not ready for pregnancy and would find it difficult to cope, and that there are other options to raising an unplanned child themselves. If you find it horrifying to agree with this, well, I feel sorry for you.
I don't believe I have in any way bullied, insulted, pilloried or abused any person in this thread, and I am insulted by your implication that I have done so.
I raised a question in this thread - how would you as a parent react if your teenage daughter came home pregnant - and, later on put forth my view, that most teenagers are not ready for pregnancy and would find it difficult to cope, and that there are other options to raising an unplanned child themselves. If you find it horrifying to agree with this, well, I feel sorry for you.I will leave it to others to decide on that, I will not try and influence them. I simply expressed my PC version the way I interpret what as been said on the thread.
It may be your particular view that most teenagers are not ready for pregnancy and unable to cope, but that does not necessarily make it so in even the majority of cases.
You simply assume that they would be better off not keeping the baby, well that is one very large assumption to make and I suspect that there are many who have been teenage mothers who would be horrified at the thought they should not have kept their child.
You are entitled to your views but that does not mean that others should be expected to follow them.
I am grateful that you feel sorry for my not having the opinion that the babies of teenage mothers should simply handed on like some unwanted present.
However, I don’t think I shall worry too much about it I shall go back to considering more serious things such as what colour socks I should wear this morning. That’s assuming they haven’t been thrown out because they were an inconvenience.
rockchick
17-Nov-06, 21:45
However, I don’t think I shall worry too much about it I shall go back to considering more serious things such as what colour socks I should wear this morning. That’s assuming they haven’t been thrown out because they were an inconvenience.
If you equate taking on a life-long responsibility of raising another life, to choosing the colour of your SOCKS, well, nothing more needs to be said, does it?
Enjoy your fallacy...hope they give you good drugs there...whatever fantasy land it is that you live in.
If you equate taking on a life-long responsibility of raising another life, to choosing the colour of your SOCKS, well, nothing more needs to be said, does it?
Enjoy your fallacy...hope they give you good drugs there...whatever fantasy land it is that you live in.Thank you very much for the comments, I find them quite amusing and very enlightening as I'm sure others will also.
rockchick
17-Nov-06, 23:27
Thank you very much for the comments, I find them quite amusing and very enlightening as I'm sure others will also.
Have you ever tried having a conversation without the armour of sarcasm? It would be rather enlightening to find out how you communicate without this crutch. If you can.
To all those people who think accidents dont happen and that teenagers should know better - I am the ripe old age of 42 and this year i found i was pregnant. I have three children already so know how it works:roll:. I also had an IUD. This method of contraception is considered the most effective and has been my preferred method for the last 11 years without any surprises. Then suddenly i find I am having another baby with a man i am not living with. Now the point of sharing this very personal story with you all is that if it can happen to me - sensible grown up and in control of my life as much as anyone - then how much more likely is it to happen to a teenager in the first relationship they have, in the first throes of passion or love or even in their first few times of "experimentation" For goodness sake guys where did we get so moral and so lacking in compassion. Accidents happen to people and society and the welfare system should be there to help where there are no other options.
Have you ever tried having a conversation without the armour of sarcasm? It would be rather enlightening to find out how you communicate without this crutch. If you can.Trust me, it's not used by me as armour, I've never needed it as such.
I only ever need armour when I am dealing with genuine heavy-weights and with them sarcasm would be useless as protection.
I reserve it for very special circumstances and the vast majority of people are never on the other end of it.
You might see it as a crutch but I suspect most people are able to see exactly how and when I use it.
I wouldn't bother trying to work it out if I were you. It takes a small number of people an awful long time to do so and some never succeed.
Oh dear, Squidge, I don't know what to do for the best but I'm sure there are those who will be able to give me advice on the matter.
Should I be happy for you and your forthcoming family member or should I castigate you for your fecklessness and suggest that as an unmarried mother you are simply intent on wanting to live at everybody else's expense? ;)
Whichever way I am advised to react, one thing I do know is that I wish you well and would advise you and any other mother to be to follow your own instincts.
It's your life and your future and the only people's advice to consider are those nearest and dearest to you.
Anybody else is just an interfering busybody who should keep their noses stuck firmly in their own business, though some never can.
jaws sweetheart
Thanks for the kind thoughts but i lost the baby. Gained a wonderful partner - it made us finally overcome all our barriers and talk about making a commitment and decide we wanted to be together and have a relationship so it all worked out in the end. Scary wee while though
jaws sweetheart
Thanks for the kind thoughts but i lost the baby. Gained a wonderful partner - it made us finally overcome all our barriers and talk about making a commitment and decide we wanted to be together and have a relationship so it all worked out in the end. Scary wee while thoughScary? You'd have found me hiding in Antarctica! Ok. so I'm a coward!:eek:
cuddlepop
20-Nov-06, 12:06
Some of the best mothers I know are teenagers and some of the worst.:confused
Its like any set of circumstances there's always good and bad.
As far as teenage pregnancys are concerned they can be prevented but sometimes there are the ones that are intentional or accidental.We as a humane society should not be condeming a mother and baby to the streets nor should we be putting them up in Five star accommodation.There has to be a happy medium.
Squidge you were very brave sharing that very private story with us and I'm glad it worked out for you in the end.:)
Now now, cuddlepop, have you learned nothing? There can only be one end result for any set of circumstances.
Don't you realise that for any single set of circumstances everybody must be made to act in the same way or disaster will result! [lol]
I agree with what you say, cuddlepop, I can't imagine what squidge felt whilst she was putting that particular post together. I suspect it would have been more than my emotions would have withstood.
To all those people who think accidents dont happen and that teenagers should know better - I am the ripe old age of 42 and this year i found i was pregnant. I have three children already so know how it works:roll:. I also had an IUD. This method of contraception is considered the most effective and has been my preferred method for the last 11 years without any surprises. Then suddenly i find I am having another baby with a man i am not living with. Now the point of sharing this very personal story with you all is that if it can happen to me - sensible grown up and in control of my life as much as anyone - then how much more likely is it to happen to a teenager in the first relationship they have, in the first throes of passion or love or even in their first few times of "experimentation" For goodness sake guys where did we get so moral and so lacking in compassion. Accidents happen to people and society and the welfare system should be there to help where there are no other options.
Squidge, firstly may I say thank you for sharing your extremely personal story, I'm both sad for your loss, but happy for the overall outcome for you, if you know what I mean!
In response to your post, I would count myself as one of those who say "accidents shouldn't happen", and I stand by this. To equate yourself, in an established relationship with a schoolgirl coming home pregnant simply does not make sense to me. To suggest that a mistake is quite liable to happen in the early relationships that schoolkids may have actually horrifies me more - forget pregnancy, are kids these days not concerned with STI's?
Educating our kids that barrier methods are the most practical way to protect against infection and pregnancy is the only way forward to help improve our kids health, and reduce child pregnancy rates.
There are other methods out there that may appear more practical in preventing pregnancy (pill/injections/IUD etc.), and work well in established loving relationships where both parties are aware/tested for any potential infections, and are also aware of the potential results of a contraception failure (as any failure may not be apparent until there's a bub growing in yer bowg!). But using them to prevent schoolkid pregnancy? In my opinion, out of site out of mind. "I'm not going to get pregnant so I'll lash at it", no thought for potential STI's, or that 1% chance that the contraception fails.
Barrier methods are in your face "lets not forget what could happen" jobs aren't they? And any failure is generally apparent immediately, thus allowing immediate damage limitation (i.e morning after pill).
Just my opinion mind!
BTW, are we not drifting again, the thread was about your schoolage child coming home pregnant/getting a girl pregnant? My opinion on how I would react to my, say 15 year old coming home pregnant (see my first post in this thread if you're interested), is no reflection on how I'd react if my 19 year old did the same...
Interestingly weeburd if i had come home pregnant at 15 I would have been marched to the Dr and had an appointment made for me at the hospital with no further ado. I wouldnt have had a say in the matter and knowing my mother I would have done EXACTLY as i was told.
I dont have daughters but i do have teenage sons and they have been both told that I do NOT expect to be a granny anytime soon. I have spoken at length to both of them and their girlfriends and amid quite a lot of squirming i made absolutely sure they were doing the contraception thing and ensuring that they were being incredibly careful.
The point of telling about my wee shock was that if it can happen to me - if i can "fall pregnant" at my advanced years and when i am fully aware of what can happen then it is even less surprising when it happens to teenagers. I think that what cuddlepop said is correct - We as a humane society should not be condeming a mother and baby to the streets nor should we be putting them up in Five star accommodation. We have to support them not castigate them.
WeeBird, STIs are, contrary to the impression often portrayed today, not something new. Kids today, in that respect are no better or worse than kids have ever been.
I too would like to live in a perfect world but I am enough of a realist that I know I never will do and nor is anybody else in any future I have heard suggested except in the odd sci-fi film.
Yes, the appropriate Education should be given but when I have reason to believe that all, or even most adults follow all the sensible advice, then and only then will I condemn those who, allegedly, are far less mature.
If the latest generation does not come up to our standards then that is our fault, not theirs. If the blame lies anywhere it is with the generations which have preceded them for not having prepared them properly for life. If there is any blame for the way the current generation of teenagers behave then it is ours because we created the society they have grown up in and for that, the shame is ours, not theirs!
I dont have daughters but i do have teenage sons and they have been both told that I do NOT expect to be a granny anytime soon. I have spoken at length to both of them and their girlfriends and amid quite a lot of squirming i made absolutely sure they were doing the contraception thing and ensuring that they were being incredibly careful.
Squidge you will make some wee bairn a wonderful granny, but I agree with all you views on this matter
rockchick
20-Nov-06, 22:49
To all those people who think accidents dont happen and that teenagers should know better - I am the ripe old age of 42 and this year i found i was pregnant. I have three children already so know how it works:roll:. I also had an IUD. This method of contraception is considered the most effective and has been my preferred method for the last 11 years without any surprises. Then suddenly i find I am having another baby with a man i am not living with. Now the point of sharing this very personal story with you all is that if it can happen to me - sensible grown up and in control of my life as much as anyone - then how much more likely is it to happen to a teenager in the first relationship they have, in the first throes of passion or love or even in their first few times of "experimentation" For goodness sake guys where did we get so moral and so lacking in compassion. Accidents happen to people and society and the welfare system should be there to help where there are no other options.
Have to admit it, you're not alone there! Without getting into sordid details, my last (and final! knock wood) child was an ooops!, and I was pushing 30 years old. Already a single mom, just started a new relationship, well into my career, just having got the boys off into full-time school and knocked up? I was NOT a happy camper...
I had every reason to get rid of it. Even made an appointment to get that little operation... Did I have the child? Yep, I did...when push came to shove, I just couldn't kill it. And she's wonderful, the sunshine of my life, and I've never regretted my decision.
I can't say whether this makes me pro-life or not; I will say that the ability to choose it for myself whether or not to have it was a freedom that I will never take for granted. No one, not your parents, not your religion, nobody has the right to make that decision for you. (Maybe the father, but that's another debate).
Since then I've done everything I can to prevent that situation again...even had the "snip"...but I still get nervous if I'm even a day late!
jinglejangle
20-Nov-06, 23:29
Have to admit it, you're not alone there! Without getting into sordid details, my last (and final! knock wood) child was an ooops!, and I was pushing 30 years old. Already a single mom, just started a new relationship, well into my career, just having got the boys off into full-time school and knocked up? I was NOT a happy camper...
I had every reason to get rid of it. Even made an appointment to get that little operation... Did I have the child? Yep, I did...when push came to shove, I just couldn't kill it. And she's wonderful, the sunshine of my life, and I've never regretted my decision.
I can't say whether this makes me pro-life or not; I will say that the ability to choose it for myself whether or not to have it was a freedom that I will never take for granted. No one, not your parents, not your religion, nobody has the right to make that decision for you. (Maybe the father, but that's another debate).
Since then I've done everything I can to prevent that situation again...even had the "snip"...but I still get nervous if I'm even a day late!
Maybe I should clarify this...
If your daughter (heck, or son...let's not discriminate!) were going to become parents, and they had no resources of their own, or plans to manage this, what would you do?
For some strange reason, I was brought up with the idea that giving an unplanned (not necessarily unwanted!) child up for adoption was a good idea. It gave the under-aged mother a second chance, and didn't require killing/abortion of the child.
What would Orgers have to say about this? Would they allow it? Would they rather bring up the child as their own rather than allow it to be adopted?
I don't believe I have in any way bullied, insulted, pilloried or abused any person in this thread, and I am insulted by your implication that I have done so.
I raised a question in this thread - how would you as a parent react if your teenage daughter came home pregnant - and, later on put forth my view, that most teenagers are not ready for pregnancy and would find it difficult to cope, and that there are other options to raising an unplanned child themselves. If you find it horrifying to agree with this, well, I feel sorry for you.
Rock-chick - whilst I do not wish to cause an argument I am amazed at some of your posts on here which seem to contradict what you are saying. You are aiming your posts at under-agers but surely it doesn't matter what age you are - as you have said in your last post - even you at 30 managed to fall pregnant with an unplanned child and you didn't give it up for adoption!
rockchick
21-Nov-06, 00:55
Rock-chick - whilst I do not wish to cause an argument I am amazed at some of your posts on here which seem to contradict what you are saying. You are aiming your posts at under-agers but surely it doesn't matter what age you are - as you have said in your last post - even you at 30 managed to fall pregnant with an unplanned child and you didn't give it up for adoption!
No contradiction - different circumstances.
My original post was how would parents react to their children becoming pregnant at a very young, albeit legal age. A discussion (of sorts) ensued, in which I put forth my opinion (as I am entitled to) that most 16 years olds are too young to responsibily take on motherhood, and it is better left for a later age when they know themselves better, having grown up abit, and are able to manage themselves. I don't believe I said that adoption was the only option for teens; I did however point it out as an option. There is a difference.
I didn't discuss the level of responsibility required to GET that way (still don't know how one "falls" pregnant...you guys must do it differently in Scotland) or birth control. I was interested in the decisions and repercussions after the fact.
Squidge brought up unplanned pregnancies in later years, and her honesty prompted me to share my own story. My own circumstances involve an incredible level of reproductive fertility (probably due to the fact that I was born on Beltaine) with three pregnancies all of which occurred when I was using one form of birth control or another. Yes, I had an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy. And, like any woman in that situation, I had to go through the process of making a decision of what to do about it. Do I get rid of it and have an abortion? If not, do I raise it myself or give it to someone else to raise? Its a very basic, fundamentally personal decision that you have to make whether you're 16 or 42. I was able to choose what was right for me, and my family.
I probably could have run back home and lived off my parents, or gone on benefits, but I have learned that I prefer to pay my own way. This isn't morality or high ethics - it's the way of living my life that works for me. I need my independence.
Would I have given the child up for adoption? Possibly, it was a definite option. If my relationship with the father not panned out as it had, I probably would have given the child up for adoption as I could barely afford the two I already had on my own. But as it turned out, the relationship has turned out to be a good one, and we are still together twelve years later, so its all worked out for the best.
The point of telling about my wee shock was that if it can happen to me - if i can "fall pregnant" at my advanced years and when i am fully aware of what can happen then it is even less surprising when it happens to teenagers. I think that what cuddlepop said is correct - We as a humane society should not be condeming a mother and baby to the streets nor should we be putting them up in Five star accommodation. We have to support them not castigate them.
Thanks for your response, Squidge. May I just add, I may be of the opinion that accidents don't happen, but I'm not on of the "turf them out onto the street" brigade ;) . As per my original post, as the parent/prospective grandparent, I would do whatever I could in the situation and provide my full support.
WeeBird, STIs are, contrary to the impression often portrayed today, not something new. Kids today, in that respect are no better or worse than kids have ever been.
I too would like to live in a perfect world but I am enough of a realist that I know I never will do and nor is anybody else in any future I have heard suggested except in the odd sci-fi film.
Yes, the appropriate Education should be given but when I have reason to believe that all, or even most adults follow all the sensible advice, then and only then will I condemn those who, allegedly, are far less mature.
If the latest generation does not come up to our standards then that is our fault, not theirs. If the blame lies anywhere it is with the generations which have preceded them for not having prepared them properly for life. If there is any blame for the way the current generation of teenagers behave then it is ours because we created the society they have grown up in and for that, the shame is ours, not theirs!
I wholeheartedly agree, Jaws. Coming back to the original question, my response indicated that I would educate my girls. Therefor, if after all my support and education my daughter still came home pregnant, then I would be there for her, albeit feeling very dissappointed that she had gotten into this situation despite all her knowledge of the potential consequences.
I probably could have run back home and lived off my parents, or gone on benefits, but I have learned that I prefer to pay my own way. This isn't morality or high ethics - it's the way of living my life that works for me. I need my independence.
Would I have given the child up for adoption? Possibly, it was a definite option. If my relationship with the father not panned out as it had, I probably would have given the child up for adoption as I could barely afford the two I already had on my own. But as it turned out, the relationship has turned out to be a good one, and we are still together twelve years later, so its all worked out for the best.
The thing is that while you and i had choices which meant we didnt have to rely on the state - we had jobs that we had worked at, we had relationships that had strong foundations even though they were both by the sounds of it relatively new relationships. We had earning potential and we had learned we need our independance. I could not have given the child up for adoption - i know that as sure as eggs is eggs and i could not have terminated the pregnancy. That is in no way a reflection on anyone who makes those decisions because i beleive ABSOLUTELY in a womans right to choose but they are not for me.
Teenagers dont have all that in many many many cases. Therefore it is right that they receive help to make the decision whether to keep their child or not. It is right that if they decide to keep the child they should receive help and support to do so, from family if possible, social workers, child health professionals or others, it is right that they receive benefits to help them financially and it is right that they receive help to either continue their education or find work and childcare to allow them to discover the benefits of independance. Part of the reasons for that are exactly what golach said
If the latest generation does not come up to our standards then that is our fault, not theirs. If the blame lies anywhere it is with the generations which have preceded them for not having prepared them properly for life. If there is any blame for the way the current generation of teenagers behave then it is ours because we created the society they have grown up in and for that, the shame is ours, not theirs!
That is EXACTLY why we as a society have to help and support teenage parents to find their way through the mess. Because it is our mess too and so we have that responsibility
(still don't know how one "falls" pregnant...you guys must do it differently in Scotland)
I was really interested in this. "Falls pregnant" is a phrase which i remember but i dont actually like. I did a bit of research and found this
The Oxford English Dictionary gives an isolated usage in 1722, to describe the predicament of some foolish girl. It then emerges at the end of the 19th century to reflect the misfortunes that, in an age before contraception, sometimes occurred to pretty under-housemaids who had attracted too much attention from the Young Master. In that context, everybody understood what it meant: "She was poor, but she was honest,/Victim of the squire's whim," and so on. The outcome was not to be discussed in polite society, and probably not that widely even in impolite. Once the inevitable had been confronted, arrangements were made, and much was brushed under the carpet. "Fall" itself suggested that the girl concerned may not have been entirely in control of her destiny; and its Miltonic resonances also supplied a suitably moral commentary for the act. today it is mainly used to indicate an unplanned and therefore surprise pregnancy
There you go
Squidge, 1722 might have been the first use but it wasn't all that different within living memory.
When an "unsuitable" young girl fell pregnant an attempt would be made to pay her to "go away". Suitable provision would be for her and the child by the family provided she kept her mouth shut. No Welfare State, no State Child Care and no other means of support was a good incentive to do just that.
A young lady who, in the opinion of the family, got an unsuitable boyfriend would in all probability be made a Ward of Court to prevent her getting married. Hence running away to Gretna Green!
Should she become pregnant and hadn't managed to marry she would be "sent away" until after the birth and the baby made to "go away". The boyfriend could well by sent to prison for failing to obey the Court Order.
All very Business like, what the young people wanted and how they felt was quite irrelevant. Oh yes, and you couldn't marry before you were 21 without your parent's permission in England. In that respect you were, in effect, their property. I'm not aware if the same situation was the same in Scotland.
The reason for the insistence on parental permission was because of the fairly rigid "Class System" to prevent young ladies from "getting involved" with young men from the "Lesser Classes" who might be after the Family Fortune.
Should a suitably rich young gentleman wish to marry your daughter off she went to the alter as soon as was "decently" possible once she was 16 or over.
How many people today are happily married to partners their parents thought were "wrong" for them?
rockchick
21-Nov-06, 18:00
The thing is that while you and i had choices which meant we didnt have to rely on the state - we had jobs that we had worked at, we had relationships that had strong foundations even though they were both by the sounds of it relatively new relationships. We had earning potential and we had learned we need our independance. I could not have given the child up for adoption - i know that as sure as eggs is eggs and i could not have terminated the pregnancy. That is in no way a reflection on anyone who makes those decisions because i beleive ABSOLUTELY in a womans right to choose but they are not for me.
Teenagers dont have all that in many many many cases. Therefore it is right that they receive help to make the decision whether to keep their child or not. It is right that if they decide to keep the child they should receive help and support to do so, from family if possible, social workers, child health professionals or others, it is right that they receive benefits to help them financially and it is right that they receive help to either continue their education or find work and childcare to allow them to discover the benefits of independance. Part of the reasons for that are exactly what golach said
That is EXACTLY why we as a society have to help and support teenage parents to find their way through the mess. Because it is our mess too and so we have that responsibility
Very well said...A different viewpoint of my own, but I have to admit I like yours better! Might just have to change my mind on this.
Very well said...A different viewpoint of my own, but I have to admit I like yours better! Might just have to change my mind on this.
Well rockchick its a big person who can consider another viewpoint to their own so all due respect for you. Teenage parents and their babies need help to achieve their potential - if socuiety doesnt help them then we just perpetuate the problem. I have enjoyed discussing this with you.
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