View Full Version : a plea for support
I am asking for support in the fight for justice for a young boy, in another country.
I know its not one of our own, nor has anything to do with caithness.
However sometimes something that would normally never touch you, that is so far removed from our everyday lives makes a huge impact.
This has happened for me with the Murder of a young man 17 year old Trayvon Martin from Florida.
the bones of the case is..
Trayvon was walking back to his house in a gated community when he was seen by a man named Zimmerman,
Zimmerman who had appointed himself as head of the Neighborhood watch called 911 and said that a suspicious black male was wondering the neighborhood, against police advice he got out of his car, followed the boy confronted him and then in what the police describes as an alteration.. shot trayvon in the chest and killed him.
Trayvon had on his person a bag of skittles and a bottle of juice he was taking back to his little brother from the local shop.
Zimmerman has not been arrested as the police have said there is no proof that he did not shoot Trayvon in Self defense.
There are links to the news articles and the 911 calls have been released where zimmerman called 911, and various neighbours have called 911. you can even here in the 911 calls Trayvon screaming for help before you hear gun shots and all screaming stops.
Zimmerman was not even taken in by the police for questioning on the night Trayvon died.
This could happen to any of our children, and if we do not stand up for Justice now, what will we do in the future when this will become acceptable behavior?
thank you
brandy
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/03/20/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html
http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-killer-of-our-son-17-year-old-trayvon-martin
What exactly do you want us do on the matter?
The police have stated it will be fully investigated, what more can we expect?
except it isnt being fully investigated, and the petition is
for the man who shot and killed the boy to be arrested.
he has not been arrested for anything, not even manslaughter.
In a late-night statement, the department announced Monday its Civil Rights Division, along with the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Middle District of Florida and the FBI, will launch “a thorough and independent investigation into the facts and circumstances of the shooting,” and pledged to “take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/74212.html#ixzz1pfWEIcbR
Why would the man be arrested when the police do not know the full details of the incident as of yet?
Unfortunately in the State of Florida (in the land of the brave and the home of the free) the law allows the use of 'deadly force' when a person 'feels their life to be threatened.' Much as I feel for for Trayvon Martin, his family and friends this is almost a regular occurrence in the US of A, an uncivilised sad country beyond our help.
the whole problem with his life being threatened was.. he got out of his car, followed the boy (against the dispatchers suggestions) accosted the boy, and then ended up shooting and killing him. the self defense plea was done before the 911 calls were released where he admitted he was in no danger, admitted that he was following the boy, and then there are other calls from residents who heard the alteration ( of which was caught on tape) plus the gun shots and death.. even though the police arrived right after he was killed .. zimmerman admitted to shooting and killing him, albeit in self defense as he stated.. he was not taken in for questioning, but released then and there to go home.
Not to self: Never go out and buy Skittles in the US, you could get shot. I think the Justice Department have launched their own investigation after Florida did nothing.
We need to be careful not to demonise the guy. Innocent until proven guilty and all that, don't want this to be trial by media.
Yon Chiel
28-Mar-12, 10:32
I am asking for support in the fight for justice for a young boy, in another country. So one American shoots another America and the world is expected to mount a campaign of outrage.Yet when battalions of American soldiers invade several Middle Eastern countries and kill 100,000s of civilians over several years we're expected just to accept that.Maintain a sense of proportion. There is another world outside of America. And the next time a bandwagon enters your Inbox, resist.
Unfortunately in the State of Florida (in the land of the brave and the home of the free) the law allows the use of 'deadly force' when a person 'feels their life to be threatened.' Much as I feel for for Trayvon Martin, his family and friends this is almost a regular occurrence in the US of A, an uncivilised sad country beyond our help.
I am not a fan of America's laws in regards to guns, however I think you say "almost a regular occurrence" and refer to America as "uncivilised" and a "sad country" with no regard to actual facts or statistics. I'm willing to be proved wrong here if you can back up what you say with some numbers or statistics, but otherwise I have to disagree with you.
So one American shoots another America and the world is expected to mount a campaign of outrage.Yet when battalions of American soldiers invade several Middle Eastern countries and kill 100,000s of civilians over several years we're expected just to accept that.Maintain a sense of proportion. There is another world outside of America. And the next time a bandwagon enters your Inbox, resist.
The idea that somehow this case concerning only one young man's death should be ignored or cared about less because perhaps somewhere someone is doing something worse is simply ridiculous. Maybe you believe there are other better causes deserving of people's time, but that doesn't mean it's right for you to criticise the original poster because he believes that this cause is worthy. The question of whether to be empathetic or not should not be judged on the scale of people involved.
highlandglen
28-Mar-12, 16:52
Could somebody please tell me what changed during this "alteration", I cannot understand the gist of the first post?
Thanks
Could somebody please tell me what changed during this "alteration", I cannot understand the gist of the first post?
Thanks
I don't follow what you mean, sorry, can you explain?
Could somebody please tell me what changed during this "alteration", I cannot understand the gist of the first post?
Thanks
You're supposed to quote the bit you are cleverly sneering at.
Regardless of your opinions, the reaction of the media to this is annoying. They're use their standard tactics it seems:
http://i.imgur.com/LvEaB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LvEaB.jpg
EDIT: The best thing to do at a time like this is to remember that you know absolutely nothing about what happened. The constant influx of media to which we are exposed is to blame for convincing people to ,have opinions on issues that have not entirely developed.
On a side note, that idiot Spike Lee almost got a woman killed by giving out what was supposedly the guys address. Even if it was the guys address, he actually wanted people to harass his family.
at the end of the day, im not bothered by the photographs of who looks innocent .. its the facts that are important. and at the moment the facts as we know them are..
zimmerman left his car with a gun followed martin, against the dispatchers recommendation. confronted him and then when martin fought back shot and killed him.
im sorry in no way can i see how that is classed as self defense. Zimmerman started the confrontation.. if someone approached me in the dark and accosted me.. i would do everything in my power to stop them..
and if that included beating the crap out of them to get away.. you better believe im going to hit as hard as i can.
and btw.. while the pic above is trying to portray martin as a gang banger.. seriously look at him.. thats a scrawny kid.. zimmerman is a LOT bigger than him.
while it will never give a family back their son, as long as due process is served thats what matters.
now to play devils advocate.
to demonize them both..
charges against zimmerman in the past..
ex-girlfriend filed assault charges
and although they were dropped he had assault against an officer..
Martins criminal history..
he was suspended from school for being in pocession of an empty bagie with pot residue..
at the end of the day, im not bothered by the photographs of who looks innocent .. its the facts that are important. and at the moment the facts as we know them are..
zimmerman left his car with a gun followed martin, against the dispatchers recommendation. confronted him and then when martin fought back shot and killed him.
im sorry in no way can i see how that is classed as self defense. Zimmerman started the confrontation.. if someone approached me in the dark and accosted me.. i would do everything in my power to stop them..
and if that included beating the crap out of them to get away.. you better believe im going to hit as hard as i can.
and btw.. while the pic above is trying to portray martin as a gang banger.. seriously look at him.. thats a scrawny kid.. zimmerman is a LOT bigger than him.
while it will never give a family back their son, as long as due process is served thats what matters.
now to play devils advocate.
to demonize them both..
charges against zimmerman in the past..
ex-girlfriend filed assault charges
and although they were dropped he had assault against an officer..
Martins criminal history..
he was suspended from school for being in pocession of an empty bagie with pot residue..
The point of the picture was to prove that the media manipulates things for its own ends. Things like grainy, washed out or dodgy pictures of people it doesnt like, it does this in order to shape and editorialise the story. I really dislike trial-by-media-stuff. The facts, what facts? There's been no trial, everyone is speculating and pontificating on hearsay. Using the issue to jump on their own little hobby horses. I hope you understand what a bold statement it is to say that people know something. If they really knew any of those facts for sure, they'd be talking to the authorities right now, not polluting the internet with their hyperbole. I can provide specific examples from recent history of when someone looked guilty or dodgy and was demonised but then it turned out they were innocent.
People are to quick to pass judgement, they read one news article and believe it. What about the other articles saying that he had jewellery and a screwdriver in his backpack? there's worse than that but it's pointless to repeat them. I'm not saying it was justified - you'll never leave Harlan alive - but I am saying that in this day and age, you really can't trust the news/media. You need to reserve judgement until all the facts are known.
It's rather irritating that some people are trying to make this into a hate crime, and in doing so they are going to turn it into a hate crime, even if it wasn't. The whole concept of hate crime annoys me actually. For a start as far as I'm concerned it's just another term for thought crime. Further it's hard to say what's in someones head and whether a person was attacked for being homosexual, an ethnic minority, whatever or if they were just attacked. Funnily you never seem to see or read about hate crimes against, short people, fat people, people with glasses etc.
... seriously look at him.. thats a scrawny kid.. zimmerman is a LOT bigger than him.
Appearances can be deceiving and all that, just because someone is larger that doesn't make them an aggressor. It's a bit off topic but there's a lot of evidence (http://csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm) of female on male violence, yet on average, all other things being equal men are larger and stronger than women. Conversely just because someone is small that doesn't mean they can't be vicious or an aggressor.
If you have a problem with the justice system in a country in general then that's a different matter but picking and choosing things or particular cases to get incensed about is disingenuous.
Yon Chiel
29-Mar-12, 10:20
at the moment the facts as we know them are..
Oh the facts. You'll know all the facts in this case won't you, because you were there and you saw it all happen, and you have access to all the information, and have spoken to all the people, etc.
You personally know no more facts about this than the man on the moon. You just got overly excited about something that has been hyped up in a spam type email you received, or that you saw on the news. And because it's "America" then it must be important.
Going on that level of gullibility, you've probably also given your bank details to help that poor Nigeria Prince who has been emailing us all for some time asking for help in moving some of his inheritance money to a new bank account.
highlandglen
29-Mar-12, 17:02
SIDS
How do you infer that I was sneering at anything.
It was a genuine request for further elucidation of a point that I did not understand.
Typical of some on this forum to attack anyone that is trying to obtain an understanding of the facts of the matter being discussed.
Apologies if I have offended you, I will resist commenting on any future interesting post in this forum which would open me to the derision of others.
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