View Full Version : The Org has changed my life.
John Little
18-Mar-12, 18:48
It really has.
I have been reading all the Ayn Rand nonsense posted on here about how important it is that Business pay the going rate, that wage rates be lowered in poorer areas, that the less paid should pay more tax.
All the apologies and excuses for why bankers should walk off with millions and why corporations should be able to avoid tax.
All the stuff that denies social responsibility, denies that society exists.
All the stuff that thinks its ok to lower the 50 tax rate, gut and privatise the NHS, cut benefits from struggling people.
And I understand why people vote for the SNP.
If I were in Scotland then I too would vote SNP and for Independence too because then I would not have to put up with seeing this stuff pushed through, driven by mindless Neo-Con nonsense, Yankee Republican ideology and Fat Cats feathering their nests.
I don't like Milliband.
I'm not a Socialist
But these people must be stopped. If they are not then our society will fracture and the United Kingdom will, inevitably, fall apart.
I live in England and don't get a chance to vote for a party that shares my priorities.
But the Org, in Scotland, has focussed my attention and my thoughts and I have decided that I am going to vote Labour for the first time in my life even though I disagree with what they stand for. In doing this the Org has taken my thoughts and turned my world upside down.
Milliband is not the answer to my prayers.
But he's one hell of a lot better to my mind than this rubbish.
The Org has accomplished something that I never thought to see.
Milliband is a hypocritical cretin. Beware the Labour, Tories in sheeps clothing.
John Little
18-Mar-12, 19:11
Milliband is a hypocritical cretin. Beware the Labour, Tories in sheeps clothing.
I agree with you.
Tories are wolves in wolves clothing.
What other choice do I have?
It's simple, come and live in Caithness which in the words of our celebrated dialect poet the late Donald Grant, Thurso High School rector also know as "Castlegreen" rhymes with "peaceful bliss and quaitness".
John Little
18-Mar-12, 20:09
Well you see there's this woman who might object...
I feel really sorry for voters in England John, as far back as I can remember it's always been ping-pong between Tories and Labour. The voters put one party in, get fed up with them and then put the other party in and then get fed up with them and so it goes on!!!
At least we in Scotland now have a valid choice and we don't have to vote for Labour or the Tories and we dont have to waste our vote on the LibDems. If I were in charge of UKIP I would seriously start to push the party as an alternative in England, I am sure the majority in England are in favour of a refreshing change.
I don't like all of the SNP's policies but they are by far the best out of the bunch, they have looked after Scotland and they have looked after me and you cant ask for more than that!!
C3..................:)
John Little
18-Mar-12, 20:24
There is much in what you say C3. But not UKIP - they are the Right Wing of the Tory Party writ large.
We need a Social Democratic party and we have not got one.
Scotland has one.
The UK does not. And that is what may break the UK up.
Eck and his lot are Tartan Tories, always have been and always will be, so its out of the frying pan and into the fire then is it?
And by the way the Org has made a great difference in my life, made many good friends and an enemy or two along the way, but they are slowly dying off. :lol:
Eck and his lot are Tartan Tories,
If thats true Golach, I would sooner take my chance with the Tartan Tories than the English Tories!!! We are already in the fire, time we climbed back into the pan!!
C3...........:roll:
John Little
18-Mar-12, 21:02
All suggestions gratefully accepted.
It really has........
<snip>
That's all very well and fine John so long as you remember that Caithness dot org does not always reflect the true opinions of the folk who live in Caithness or Scotland as a whole.
I've never entered any political debate on these forums and I doubt I ever will. That doesn't mean to say that I don't have an opinion. I do, for several different reasons.
IMHO Scotland will never see independence. I do so hope I am right. :)
Changed your life John? It's turned you into a lefty!:lol:
Hardly surprising that the overwhelming political slant on here should rub off.
I, however, am manfully resisting. :Razz
John Little
19-Mar-12, 09:49
Lefty?
No.
I want someone who represents the society that I want to live in; and I think I am a centrist.
You guys are so far to the Right that you think I am Left.
That's the trouble; yet I have noted that on some issues I am far to the Right of you.
There is hope.
The society I want is one where there is still an NHS and wellfare state in 50 years and we are not all skint for the next 100.
I can't believe on past performance that Labour can deliver this.
John Little
19-Mar-12, 10:19
Well on present showing it's sure as tootin that the Tories can't.
They've sussed out that there ain't enough money to go round so they've decided to channel it where they think it should go.
We certainly ain't in this thing together.
Welcome back to 1890
Cracked, a site generally known for throwaway crap actually said something interesting and relevant to this:
(6 Things Rich People Need to Stop Saying) - http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-things-rich-people-need-to-stop-saying/
Cracked, a site generally known for throwaway crap actually said something interesting and relevant to this:
(6 Things Rich People Need to Stop Saying) - http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-things-rich-people-need-to-stop-saying/
Yes, all my money is worth a lot less after I spend it. :eek:
Humerous Vegetable
19-Mar-12, 13:53
I know exactly your dilemma, having lived over 20 years in various parts of England, before returning home in 2004. The political choices are very limited for the non-extremists amongst us. Have you tried http://www.liberal.org.uk/ to see whether there are any local-to-you party activists/candidates? Although I myself have always voted SNP, even back in the days when they were not at all popular, when in England I found myself voting for all kinds of stuff I didn't believe in, through lack of political/ethical/moral choice. My family were fierce Liberals.....or as fierce as Liberals ever got, in the olden days.....
My dad used to say that Jo Grimond was the last real statesman in British politics.
Yes, all my money is worth a lot less after I spend it. :eek:
What?!? that makes less sense than usual.
And now "Call me Dave" wants to start selling off our roads to the private sector, talk about squeezing ordinary Joe Public and looking after your slimey mates.
Yet another reason to vote SNP in my book!!
C3.......................[disgust][disgust]
And now "Call me Dave" wants to start selling off our roads to the private sector, talk about squeezing ordinary Joe Public and looking after your slimey mates.
Yet another reason to vote SNP in my book!!
C3.......................[disgust][disgust]
Er... this has been discussed by all govenments for ages. It is seen as the only way to get our road network into the 20th century. What is the downside? Your roadtax doesn't go on the roads that is for sure.
The Trunk Roads in Scotland have been maintained by private companies for years. Just keep being negative about everything and you will be right one day. :roll:
John Little
19-Mar-12, 14:17
I know exactly your dilemma, having lived over 20 years in various parts of England, before returning home in 2004. The political choices are very limited for the non-extremists amongst us. Have you tried http://www.liberal.org.uk/ to see whether there are any local-to-you party activists/candidates? Although I myself have always voted SNP, even back in the days when they were not at all popular, when in England I found myself voting for all kinds of stuff I didn't believe in, through lack of political/ethical/moral choice. My family were fierce Liberals.....or as fierce as Liberals ever got, in the olden days.....
My dad used to say that Jo Grimond was the last real statesman in British politics.
Yes - I used to be a Liberal too - before 1988. And your dad was probably right about Grimond - until Paddy Ashdown did his truly impressive turn in Bosnia. Really I still am a Liberal, but they've long gone. Now we have the Lib-Dems and they have always been a camel dreamed up by a committee. I ain't gonna vote for them!
I might vote Liberal though - if the party secedes and reforms itself as a national one.
The Trunk Roads in Scotland have been maintained by private companies for years. Just keep being negative about everything and you will be right one day. :roll:
I know that our roads have been maintained by private companies but this brilliant idea of Dave's is to build new roads and then start toll charging.....Wonderful!!
(and why doesn't the road tax go on new roads?....Thats what it was introduced for!!!
And as for being negative, when the Tories give me something to be positive about I shall throw a party!!!
C3.....................:roll:;)
John Little
19-Mar-12, 20:21
Your road tax probably pays for our policing Afghanistan.
They are getting rid of the 50p tax rate saying that it did not raise that much.
According to tonight's news it is impossible to tell how much it would have raised because there was massive tax evasion by the rich; all perfectly legal of course... who makes the laws?
Since June 2010 Education has lost 94,000 jobs.
The Police have lost 25,000 jobs
Health and Social workers are down by 27,000.
The NHS has lost 35,000 jobs.
Overall unemployment is up by 200,000.
And what does the UK government do to the people it has thrown out of work?
Cuts the benefits levels to among the lowest in Europe.
We're all in this together.
Yeah - right!
oldmarine
19-Mar-12, 20:24
The Org has made a large impact on my life for the better and the worse.
I know that our roads have been maintained by private companies but this brilliant idea of Dave's is to build new roads and then start toll charging.....Wonderful!!
(and why doesn't the road tax go on new roads?....Thats what it was introduced for!!!
And as for being negative, when the Tories give me something to be positive about I shall throw a party!!!
C3.....................:roll:;)
If the road tax was spent only roads you could pave the whole of the UK 2 feet deep!
It is spent on everything, just another tax.
Don't worry, I don't think there will be a six lane toll road going to Thurso anytime soon.
Since June 2010 Education has lost 94,000 jobs.
The Police have lost 25,000 jobs
Health and Social workers are down by 27,000.
The NHS has lost 35,000 jobs.
Overall unemployment is up by 200,000.
And what does the UK government do to the people it has thrown out of work?
I havent heard of mass redundancies in the police or NHS or teachers or social services for that matter. Are they not being reported or have I not been paying attention?
John Little
19-Mar-12, 20:59
Page 53 today's Independent.
But hey - what does he know?
He's only a Professor of Economics.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/david-blanchflower/david-blanchflower-the-big-society-its-simply-cover-for-a-tory-attack-on-the-state-7576949.html
Page 53 today's Independent.
You're kidding right?
John Little
19-Mar-12, 21:05
It's well said that there's none so blind as them as does'nt want to see.
Carry on.
You are driving me further and further Left.
John Little
19-Mar-12, 21:06
Have you read it?
Have you read it?
Nope. I don't read any newspapers. If it made page 53 of the Independent I probably wouldn't have got to it even if I did.
The point I was aiming at is 35,000 redundant Nurses would have made a bit of a splash on the front page of the Mirror dont you think? So I'm thinking if there have been that many positions lost, it wasn't by redundancy (poss. voluntary) but figures created by theoretical headcount. Not replacing vacant posts, positions in administration etc.
Therefore, not tossing people out of work, but reducing headcount nonetheless.
And with all this reduction, the world hasn't ended, so there were obviously savings to be made.
John Little
19-Mar-12, 21:19
I thought so.
You haven't read it.
200,000 is the figure.
To me that's unemployment up by 200,000. Behind the wage earner in many cases is a mortgage, rent, instalments, council tax etc. The anguish of losing a job. The instability of it all; the human cost.
Why the newspapers you read do not mention it - I leave you to work it out.
I don't think you actually want to see what is going on.
David Banks
19-Mar-12, 21:22
It has allowed me to "meet" people with Caithness connections whom I would never have met any other way. It has shown me that plenty people have thought deeply about their own morality, how they should live, how they should treat their family, neighbours, friends, and how we should live together and respect different points of view.
When it comes to "growing-up" it is never too late to learn something new.
I have just finished watching a series of lectures on the History of the English language. Near the end or the series, the prof. left the specific topic of English to talk more about the science of language. I think I may be losing my lack of tolerance for Gaelic, and seeing that the survival of that language in Scotland (and Nova Scotia) as important.
John Little
19-Mar-12, 21:26
Interesting euphemism- reducing by natural wastage.
It's not really creating unemployment.
It's just reducing the number of jobs available.
So nobody gets hurt.
Except the remaining staff, because the work that used to be done by a person in that job is now shared out among the remaining schmucks who get stressed, overwork and burn out and make mistakes.
And in this world, where the jobs we are supposed to work hard in are reduced until it's all done by machines or Indian call centres, rich people and banks and corporations dodge their taxes, walk away with multi million pound bonuses and rescue their corrupt and stinking financial houses with my money?
And I am 'Left wing' because I object to this?????
God save us!
I thought so.
You haven't read it.
200,000 is the figure.
To me that's unemployment up by 200,000. Behind the wage earner in many cases is a mortgage, rent, instalments, council tax etc. The anguish of losing a job. The instability of it all; the human cost.
Why the newspapers you read do not mention it - I leave you to work it out.
I don't think you actually want to see what is going on.
Ahhhh! I'm not suggesting unemployment isn't increasing, that's what happens when the country is close to bancrupt.
It was even closer before the last election. It just irritates me that people blame the current Gov for what they inherited and are trying to sort out. As I have said before, only magic can make it change instantly.
You seem to think every person who loses a job is directly the fault of this gov. And it is made to happen vindictively because the rich people demanded it?
Sorry, I'm losing the will to Org.
John Little
19-Mar-12, 21:27
David Banks.
You are a good man.
And very sane.
Thank you.
Sorry, I'm losing the will to Org.
I almost feel sorry for you. :lol:
Trying to sort out? Trying and Failing. Unemployment is up, growth isnt growing, disatisfaction IS growing, the only people not feeling the pinch are the rich and privilidged.
We should be doing EVERYTHING EVERYTHING EVERYTHING to protect jobs, to support sick people, to protect vital public services rather than letting the country leach tax through failing to collect it from companies or people who avoid it through loopholes the Government allow. To spend money on railway lines, on sending young men to die in Afghanistan, on posturing around the world as the superpower we just arent, when we refuse to fill jobs for nurses, police or social workers; to cut the top rate of tax whilst removing tax credits for the lowest paid; he unfairness of the removal of child benefit from familes with one earner over 40K whilst allowing it to remain for two earners earning 80K - WHAT???? Who on earth thinks that is the right thing to do - the FAIR thing to do? This is so easy to sort out - pay child benefit through the tax credits system where you already take into account the earnings of both members of a couple... but they do not catre about the man in the street, the Conservative party does not beleive in society or in a responsibility to care for the weak and vulnerable. They see them as cash guzzling drains on the public purse.
The government should CARE about the people it represents. It should CARE about creating a fair and just and equal society and whilst it has to balance the books it should maximise its income to ensure that it can do the best for the people it is responsible to. This government repeatedly avoids tackling issues which allow the rich and affluent - individuals and companies - to minimise their tax liabilities whilst the same is not available to those on low incomes. This is about their political ideology and their priorities not about improving life and opportunities for society. They are sticking to their ideology whilst ordinary people struggle and the weak and vulnerable cannot heat their homes or afford their weekly food bill.
Trying to sort out? Trying and Failing. Unemployment is up, growth isnt growing, disatisfaction IS growing, the only people not feeling the pinch are the rich and privilidged.
We should be doing EVERYTHING EVERYTHING EVERYTHING to protect jobs, to support sick people, to protect vital public services rather than letting the country leach tax through failing to collect it from companies or people who avoid it through loopholes the Government allow. To spend money on railway lines, on sending young men to die in Afghanistan, on posturing around the world as the superpower we just arent, when we refuse to fill jobs for nurses, police or social workers; to cut the top rate of tax whilst removing tax credits for the lowest paid; he unfairness of the removal of child benefit from familes with one earner over 40K whilst allowing it to remain for two earners earning 80K - WHAT???? Who on earth thinks that is the right thing to do - the FAIR thing to do? This is so easy to sort out - pay child benefit through the tax credits system where you already take into account the earnings of both members of a couple... but they do not catre about the man in the street, the Conservative party does not beleive in society or in a responsibility to care for the weak and vulnerable. They see them as cash guzzling drains on the public purse.
The government should CARE about the people it represents. It should CARE about creating a fair and just and equal society and whilst it has to balance the books it should maximise its income to ensure that it can do the best for the people it is responsible to. This government repeatedly avoids tackling issues which allow the rich and affluent - individuals and companies - to minimise their tax liabilities whilst the same is not available to those on low incomes. This is about their political ideology and their priorities not about improving life and opportunities for society. They are sticking to their ideology whilst ordinary people struggle and the weak and vulnerable cannot heat their homes or afford their weekly food bill.
There's no money
John Little
19-Mar-12, 23:53
There's no money
LOLOL! No - the banks have got the lot.
There's no moneyThere is money for reducing high rate tax, for reducing corporation tax, for building railways and consultations, for wars in afghanistan. There is money disappearing through tax avoidance, there is money disappearing through fraud and official mistakes, there is the potential to increase taxes and close avoidance loopholes. There is money.... There is no morality
There's no money
Thats the best laugh I have had all day Duke, it's a guid one, even for you!!!
C3..................:lol::lol::lol:
There is money for reducing high rate tax, for reducing corporation tax, for building railways and consultations, for wars in afghanistan. There is money disappearing through tax avoidance, there is money disappearing through fraud and official mistakes, there is the potential to increase taxes and close avoidance loopholes. There is money.... There is no morality
OK. Lets try this. If you have mortgage arrears, are in debt to the bank, credit cards, you are threatened with bankruptcy. You have an income but it doesn't cover the debt.
You can use the income to develop a strategy that will get you out of debt and save your house and lifestyle, eventually. By creating the right conditions for increasing income and reducing debt.
Or you can just buy sweeties and ignore the problem and see what happens.
Which would you prefer your Gov. to do?
By the way I disagree with being in Afghanistan but the Gov. has to play the cards dealt. Good or bad the UK is committed and will have to see it through.
And you can bet as soon as this commitment is over there will be another one. The UK has not spent a day not fighting somewhere for over one hundred years.
And...50p tax rate. We need motivated people who do more than just go to work every day to earn the £s. How motivated would you be if you gave up ½ of your earnings in Tax?
This country is teetering on the brink of becoming another Greece.
I'm convinced if Dave and crew hadn't taken the helm, we would have gone over........and we still could.
Thats the best laugh I have had all day Duke, it's a guid one, even for you!!!
C3..................:lol::lol::lol:
And it is me who is blind.
OK. Lets try this. If you have mortgage arrears, are in debt to the bank, credit cards, you are threatened with bankruptcy. You have an income but it doesn't cover the debt.You can use the income to develop a strategy that will get you out of debt and save your house and lifestyle, eventually. By creating the right conditions for increasing income and reducing debt.Or you can just buy sweeties and ignore the problem and see what happens.Which would you prefer your Gov. to do? By the way I disagree with being in Afghanistan but the Gov. has to play the cards dealt. Good or bad the UK is committed and will have to see it throughAnd you can bet as soon as this commitment is over there will be another one. The UK has not spent a day not fighting somewhere for over one hundred years.And...50p tax rate. We need motivated people who do more than just go to work every day to earn the £s. How motivated would you be if you gave up ½ of your earnings in Tax?This country is teetering on the brink of becoming another Greece. I'm convinced if Dave and crew hadn't taken the helm, we would have gone over........and we still could. Sweeties? You think health care, hospitals, education and welfare, police and social services are the SWEETIES of our society? If you are in the position you describe and make no mistake I have been there, you make sure you maximise your income, you dont put in new windows or a fancy kitchen, you ensure that you are not wasting money or allowing others to fleece you of your hard earned cash. You look after the essentials and look after each other. Something this government does not know how to do.As for tax reductions for the highest earners, they do NOT pay half their wages in tax. They have tax free allowances like the rest of us and by the sheer fact that they have plenty money they have access to and can pay for advice on minimising their tax liabilities. Something a hospital auxiliary worker is not likely to be able to do. I would be motivated just fine by taking home 75k a year thanks very much. If we want to cut top rate tax we could do it when the basics are taken care of. But to do it now whilst freezing the pay of public servants earning in some cases less than 10% of the salary of a top rate tax payer is just frankly disgusting.
John Little
20-Mar-12, 08:52
Thats the best laugh I have had all day Duke, it's a guid one, even for you!!!
C3..................:lol::lol::lol:
Aye - Stephen Hester told him that one - he's a barrel of laughs at a party...
And...50p tax rate. We need motivated people who do more than just go to work every day to earn the £s. How motivated would you be if you gave up ½ of your earnings in Tax?I am intrigued by this, why does a 50% income tax rate all of a sudden make the likes of Richard Branson & Sir Lord Amstrad kick back and think 'feck it, I ain't workin' no more. Gonna go and sign on' ?
This country is teetering on the brink of becoming another Greece. Being pushed over the brink by Osborne & Co.
John Little
20-Mar-12, 10:19
Spot on Phill. Absolutely spot on!
Over taxation of what people spend on.
High fuel costs
Cutbacks and unemployment
All lead to restriction in the money supply available to the general populace= Zero growth and Depression spiral.
No rocket science involved really.
So OK you could all do better. Better start campaigning its only two and a bit years away.
Thinking of resurrecting the Trebuchet Party!
And it is me who is blind.
We are that much awash with money we can afford to let people off from paying their fines.............£2b is a lot of money to let go!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17438873
C3....................:eek:
The problem as I see it is, the people who have to make the 'tough' decisions are in a bubble. Financially, politically and 'person on the street run of the mill getting on with life..lly'.
They are advised by equally cushioned Whitehall advisor's. Now, remember: These advisor's and Whitehall 'Humphrey's' are permanent staff, they see through all the different party governments and just have a bucket of ideas that they pitch to whichever minister of whatever persuasion at the time.
Their decisions are generally flawed, even if made with good intent based on a paper exercise.
What they do not do is listen to the people in the service / industry sectors that deal with the process' on a daily basis.
None of the parties can get a grip of sustainability or reality while they live in their own world detached from the rest of the population.
We are that much awash with money we can afford to let people off from paying their fines.............£2b is a lot of money to let go!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17438873
But how many of the people owing these fines actually have the money?
Is this not more an issue with justice than accounting?
Humerous Vegetable
20-Mar-12, 13:35
Yes - I used to be a Liberal too - before 1988. And your dad was probably right about Grimond - until Paddy Ashdown did his truly impressive turn in Bosnia. Really I still am a Liberal, but they've long gone. Now we have the Lib-Dems and they have always been a camel dreamed up by a committee. I ain't gonna vote for them!
I might vote Liberal though - if the party secedes and reforms itself as a national one.
Yes, the link I posted is for the Liberal Party website, not the Lib-Dems. The Liberal party appears still to exist as a national party, although I don't know how extensive it currently is. It appears that the Lib-Dems were the seceders here.
But how many of the people owing these fines actually have the money?
Is this not more an issue with justice than accounting?
If they dont have the money it should be taken weekly from their salary/benefits! And more use of bailiffs would do a lot to make sure people pay up!
You wouldn't expect someone who was sentenced to prison to be let off and sent on a holiday instead would you!
These people are taking the pee, they know they wont be chased for the cash!!
C3...................[disgust]
John Little
20-Mar-12, 14:32
Yes, the link I posted is for the Liberal Party website, not the Lib-Dems. The Liberal party appears still to exist as a national party, although I don't know how extensive it currently is. It appears that the Lib-Dems were the seceders here.
Yes - thank you- I am aware of them; they do preserve the old Liberal values.
However they are not a national party and are unlikely to be one- unless the Liberals secede from the Lib Dems and rejoin/reform the real party.
They seem to have a few councillors, no MPs and they are nowhere near here.
But yes - we need a party like that. Exactly like that.
You wouldn't expect someone who was sentenced to prison to be let off and sent on a holiday instead would you! Actually...... I seem to remember someone getting a safari or something like that as 'rehabilitation' but then It was in the Sun or Star or Sunday Sport I think.
If they dont have the money it should be taken weekly from their salary/benefits! And more use of bailiffs would do a lot to make sure people pay up!
These people are taking the pee, they know they wont be chased for the cash!!
I think this is the problem, or part of it.
It ends up costing more to send the bailiffs round every other week to recover the £1 a week that they are (not)paying.
George Brims
20-Mar-12, 23:54
I agree with you.
Tories are wolves in wolves clothing.
What other choice do I have?
Over here in California, I saw a sticker on a car this morning that said "Repubs are thieves. Dems are morons. Now what?" So it seems the choices are not great wherever you go!
Whilst the thread is on a tangent, I saw these images today:
http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy337/Phill_Rawlins/muppets1.jpg
http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy337/Phill_Rawlins/muppets2.jpg
Shouldn't these muppets be rolling about in the aisles knocking the shite out of each other instead of making chummy smalltalk???
It just shows the positive effect the Queen has on people.
oldmarine
21-Mar-12, 22:13
The org has made me very cautious what I enter on here.
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