View Full Version : What a brilliant speech !!
Please take the time to read this speech made by Alex Salmond yesterday.
I didn't used to like this Guy but he comes across as passionate and truthful. Do we want independence or to be ruled by the Tories in Westminster for evermore because Labour have no chance of getting power under their present Leader!!!! English NHS is about to go private (via the back door) but Alex promises us that Scottish NHS is not for sale to the private sector. The NHS in Scotland is the best there is and it needs careful hands to keep it that way.
If you are Scottish by birth, if you have moved here for a better life, then think seriously about this, this is a chance to make it on our own, break free from the chains of Clegg and Cameron.
I used to vote LibDem year in year out but they have shown their true colours by jumping into bed with the Tories for their 5 minutes of fame, they are liars and will do everything to make themselves look good in the eyes of the public. The fact is they are Tories in lambs clothing!!
If you love Scotland and the way we live then please listen to the only party that has Scotland's future at heart, it's a once in a lifetime chance, don't waste it!!!!
[/URL][url]http://news.stv.tv/scotland/300287-alex-salmonds-speech-to-snp-spring-conference/ (http://politics.caledonianmercury.com/2011/03/12/first-minister-alex-salmonds-speech-to-the-snp-spring-conference/)
C3....................:):)
Followed by another brilliant speech.......What a find is Nicola Sturgeon, a Woman who has Scotland at her heart!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-17328681
C3.......................:D:D:D
weezer 316
11-Mar-12, 20:48
Blah de blah de blah
Union been a fantastic success
Common language
Common Culture
Shared history
Much more powerul voice in the world as the UK
Real economic freedom as part of UK, not the case with Scotland
Plus:
You have a £6bn hole in your budget you need to fill and thats before UK govt pulls out. Let me hear how your gonna do it
We wll be one of the most indebted countries in the world independent
Currency Alex? Or we gonna trade with cows
And thats before the nationalist hypocrisy we encounter each day, like opposing all military cuts in Scotland then saying he would close 2 of the air bases if we were independent.............but we will just ignore that cause hes scottish eh!
Ok go on..I read it. We have ideas from that speech of the sort of things planned for an independent Scotland. We have a VISION.
Weezer can you give me a vision ofthe things that would be better in the Union if Scotland votes no?
The Nats have given us their vision, lets hear the Unionist Vision. I
dont want details, or costings or mutters about holes in economic policy - that will come later. I want a Unionist VISION. A vision that
tells me.... Undecided mum of 5 .... How my childrens lives will be
better inside the Union.
Whitewater
11-Mar-12, 22:46
He is a good talker, his spin on everything makes it all sound so easy, but don't beleive all you hear. Just think back to a recent debate on here about the entertainment tax, (I think that is what it was called) where local councils were given the right to demand that a license be purchased for any outdoor entertainment. Bill Fernie gave a good account of it, and I was glad to hear that the Highland Council were not going to enforce it.
Alex has many good ideas, unfortunately the application many of them is not very well thought out.
Ok go on..I read it. We have ideas from that speech of the sort of things planned for an independent Scotland. We have a VISION.
Weezer can you give me a vision ofthe things that would be better in the Union if Scotland votes no?
The Nats have given us their vision, lets hear the Unionist Vision. I
dont want details, or costings or mutters about holes in economic policy - that will come later. I want a Unionist VISION. A vision that
tells me.... Undecided mum of 5 .... How my childrens lives will be
better inside the Union.
I suspect your children's lives will be better in the Union than in an economic backwater. Alex's utterences are classic rabble rowsing. I would like to know what is wrong with staying in the union. Listening to this dribble you would think we were oppressed in some way.
I don't feel the least bit oppressed. I would like the future to hold Jobs and hope though.
And BTW C3, we have the worst health in the first world so I don't think the Scottish NHS has much to shout about. Particularly in the light of some of the recent infection disasters.
I want a Unionist Vision!!!! Nothing is achieved without vision- thats where it starts. If i am going to make a decision about yes or no I want to see the vision the Unionists have for the future. Thats where it needs to start. I can then go on and see how the detail develops on BOTH sides. For now I want to compare the visions of both sides. Im getting increasingly frustrated by the lack of a unionist vision. Is there one? I have spent an hour rummaging around the internet looking for one and i am frankly struggling.
And BTW C3, we have the worst health in the first world so I don't think the Scottish NHS has much to shout about. Particularly in the light of some of the recent infection disasters.Erm we have the worst health after 300 years of union????? So what are Unionist parties going to do to change that? Oh. They have devolved health to the Scottish Parliament....thats it? Health is a devolved issue so they have no other ideas? What are the scottish labour, lib dems and tories going to do to improve health in Scotland in a United Kingdom?
I want a Unionist Vision!!!! Nothing is achieved without vision- thats where it starts. If i am going to make a decision about yes or no I want to see the vision the Unionists have for the future. Thats where it needs to start. I can then go on and see how the detail develops on BOTH sides. For now I want to compare the visions of both sides. Im getting increasingly frustrated by the lack of a unionist vision. Is there one? I have spent an hour rummaging around the internet looking for one and i am frankly struggling.
That is the problem, the Status Quo is what it is. If you like it vote no, if you think a bunch of people who were the Lunatic Fringe not very long ago can do better with less, go for it.
Erm we have the worst health after 300 years of union????? So what are Unionist parties going to do to change that? Oh. They have devolved health to the Scottish Parliament....thats it? Health is a devolved issue so they have no other ideas? What are the scottish labour, lib dems and tories going to do to improve health in Scotland in a United Kingdom?
Well what do you think the reforms in the rest of the UK that we are not part of are about?
Erm we have the worst health after 300 years of union????? So what are Unionist parties going to do to change that? Oh. They have devolved health to the Scottish Parliament....thats it? Health is a devolved issue so they have no other ideas? What are the scottish labour, lib dems and tories going to do to improve health in Scotland in a United Kingdom?
And that is now another problem. Until this whole mess is sorted out one way or another in about 1000 days :roll:
No one is going to do anything for Scotland. Even the SNP!
Well what do you think the reforms in the rest of the UK that we are not part of are about?Saving money, reducing the public sector and implemention of tory policies on privatisation
weezer 316
11-Mar-12, 23:25
Ok go on..I read it. We have ideas from that speech of the sort of things planned for an independent Scotland. We have a VISION.
Weezer can you give me a vision ofthe things that would be better in the Union if Scotland votes no?
The Nats have given us their vision, lets hear the Unionist Vision. I
dont want details, or costings or mutters about holes in economic policy - that will come later. I want a Unionist VISION. A vision that
tells me.... Undecided mum of 5 .... How my childrens lives will be
better inside the Union.
well.......Aside from the benefits I outlined and given the ludicrously small differneces between us and the rest of britain that counts as one.
Also, as Ducati said not becoming a wee goldfish. We are a powerful voice in the world and I dont see that changing, so that will help. Scotland alone is nothign adn will bend whatever way our neighbours do regardless of whether its good for us or not.
Thirdly, nationilism is inherintly dumb by default. Arguments are meant to be won on their merits, not appeals to thingly veiled suspision of "Them", and for them you use the term immigrant/English/EU/ interchangebly. So a future minus such vitriolic nonsense is also aprt of the vision. Seen where nationalism leads you, just look at the nazis.
Now, and again I have said this ad infinitum, Alex MUST make the case for independence. He appeals to your patriotic side. Not you thinking side. And if he cant do that I will reject him out of hand. I have no time for religion, nationalism or tribalism (outside sport whcih is the whole point) of any kind and arguments based on them tend be be so because THEY ARE WEAK ARGUMENTS.
Now, enlighten me.....what exactly are his points aside from "Im scottish, I want whats best for Scotland" and how does that differ from David cameron saying "Scotland is part of Britain, and I want whats best for Britain".
It might not be a bad idea at this point for someone to explain how Scotland has been better off since devolution. That might give us some steer as to whether going further is a good idea?
John Little
11-Mar-12, 23:28
Erm we have the worst health after 300 years of union????? So what are Unionist parties going to do to change that? Oh. They have devolved health to the Scottish Parliament....thats it? Health is a devolved issue so they have no other ideas? What are the scottish labour, lib dems and tories going to do to improve health in Scotland in a United Kingdom?
I may be misunderstanding this but it seems to me that you are wanting your cake both ways. Why do you ask what these parties are going to do about health in the United Kingdom?
If it's a devolved issue, then it's up to the Scottish government and not a UK matter at all. :confused
Saving money, reducing the public sector and implemention of tory policies on privatisation
Clap trap. Have you actually read any part of the Bill?
Why do you talk of "Vision" when facts are whats needed , not some airy fairy terminology that does really mean anything
I may be misunderstanding this but it seems to me that you are wanting your cake both ways. Why do you ask what these parties are going to do about health in the United Kingdom?
If it's a devolved issue, then it's up to the Scottish government and not a UK matter at all. :confused
sorry John - I meant I want to know what the Unionist parties are going to do about health in a post referendum Scotland as part of the UK. I dont want to know about the Conservative policy on health in england. I want to know what SCOTTISH labour, libdems and conservatives - those parties that push the Union as the best options - I want to hear what THEY think the future holds for oil and for the SCOTTIsH economy and for jobs and for education in Scotland as part of a UNITED kingdom. I dont see that anywhere - just what weezer has said - shared history = good, bigger is better - ok thats a fair point but nationalism is dumb doesnt really do it for me. As for appealing to my patriotism -well, im English! Im British but I want what is best for Scotland because thats the place I live and love and am bringing my children up and therefore if its independence that persuades me - and its doing a reasonable job so far - then so be it
Why do you talk of "Vision" when facts are whats needed , not some airy fairy terminology that does really mean anything
Nothing starts without a vision - Facts cant be offered or decided upon without a vision, plans cant be made and ideas cant be expanded without a vision - we have the next 1000ish days for facts and arguments but without vision we are wandering around in the dark. If you dont have a vision then youa re going nowhere.
Do you know what? Im cross! Im cross and I feel let down by the unionist parties. I feel disappointed that they have no ooomph, no gutsy rallying cry that gives me hope for the future of society in a UNited Kingdom. I want something more than Nationalism is dumb so lets just keep things the way it is. I keep hoping that the Unionists are going to come out all guns blazing and fill me with hope and enthusiasm for a United Kingdom and they dont and Im cross about it.
I think you'll find that the swivel-eyed, widow and orphan-battering, silver-tongued and orally-spooned Tory Toffs of Westminster are keeping their powder dry. No point in raising expectations with 1000 days to go - just let the Baboon from Brigadoon shout out more and more empty promises, along with his anti-Union vitriol, for about another year and a half, (i.e.when Bonnie Scotland is totally hacked off with this constant willy-waving) then just come in with a short, sharp and punchy Union campaign based on "this is what he promised you and this is what it'll cost you". Result! Result? Rather like the Strawbs in the 70s, we'll wake up to discover we are still, happily, "Part of the Union".
Nothing starts without a vision - Facts cant be offered or decided upon without a vision, plans cant be made and ideas cant be expanded without a vision - we have the next 1000ish days for facts and arguments but without vision we are wandering around in the dark. If you dont have a vision then youa re going nowhere.
Do you know what? Im cross! Im cross and I feel let down by the unionist parties. I feel disappointed that they have no ooomph, no gutsy rallying cry that gives me hope for the future of society in a UNited Kingdom. I want something more than Nationalism is dumb so lets just keep things the way it is. I keep hoping that the Unionists are going to come out all guns blazing and fill me with hope and enthusiasm for a United Kingdom and they dont and Im cross about it.
Substitute the SNP 'vision' for dream and most unionists will say, "Dream on." Wee Fat Eck has gambled with a long lead in time for the proposed referendum in the hope that he can lead the debate. Everyone else is waiting for him to, (a) burn out, (b) shoot himself in the foot. The pro-union lobby are in no hurry to set out their table. I will acknowledge that I’m happy with a lot of what Eck and the SNP have done for Scotland so far; but I have yet to be convinced that independence is right for us.
Wee Eck’s first mistake is proposing such a long lead in time which is causing concern at all sorts of levels.
I remember he and his colleagues were very vocal in their support for keeping the RAF in Scotland. He must have been dreaming if he thought that the RAF, a British defence force, would be required to stay in an independent Scotland. The proposed move of 39 Engineer Regiment to Kinross is under review now; I mean why would the British Army invest in a refurbishment and deployment in Scotland? It is little wonder the MOD has cancelled plans to sell off the barracks in and around Edinburgh and build a new super barracks for over 2,500 troops near Kirknewton. The plan is no longer viable while Eck has his ‘vision’.
The SNP wax lyrical about supporting public sector jobs yet they want our nuclear deterrent out of Scotland. A nice dream but the SNP don’t mention the hundreds of jobs that will be lost and the significant economic loss to the area. There are police, trades, clerical and admin posts that will be lost. All these employees spend their money in the area; I can see the area turning into an economic wasteland.
I and many like me don’t need Wee Eck’s vision/dream. What we’ve got works. It might not be perfect but with our devolved parliament and our democratic processes we’ll manage fine. In the meantime we’ll watch Wee Eck rabbit on until people wake up and realise his ‘vision’ is a mere apparition.
Out of all the Politicians in the UK I trust Salmond and Sturgeon more than any other.
I feel safer in their hands than I do in the hands of Cameron and Clegg who wont be happy until they have screwed all the poor, the vulnerable and yes, even the people who are lucky enough to have jobs and children. Their savagery has no bounds unless you are one of the top earners in the UK.
I am not prepared to take another 5 years of LibDem or even stand alone Tory rule and I see the break up of the UK as a way out (the only way out) of being ruled by these butchers!!!
C3................[disgust]
Out of all the Politicians in the UK I trust Salmond and Sturgeon more than any other.
I feel safer in their hands than I do in the hands of Cameron and Clegg who wont be happy until they have screwed all the poor, the vulnerable and yes, even the people who are lucky enough to have jobs and children. Their savagery has no bounds unless you are one of the top earners in the UK.
I am not prepared to take another 5 years of LibDem or even stand alone Tory rule and I see the break up of the UK as a way out (the only way out) of being ruled by these butchers!!!
C3................[disgust]
While I agree with you I; I voted SNP to rid Scotland of the obnoxious labour party. I have yet to be convinced that full Independence is the way forward.
While I agree with you I; I voted SNP to rid Scotland of the obnoxious labour party. I have yet to be convinced that full Independence is the way forward.
So what is the answer Gronnuck?
I don't believe any party will get into Westminster from now on except the Tories, people will not trust labour with the Economy ever again so the Tories will breeze into power everytime!!!
We up here have to have faith in ourselves that we can manage our own affairs and economy and not be screwed by the Tories ever again!!
We need to be strong, Scotland is a country in it's own right, we can do this and make her great again!!
Have faith in yourselves!!!
C3..............;)
So what is the answer Gronnuck?
I don't believe any party will get into Westminster from now on except the Tories, people will not trust labour with the Economy ever again so the Tories will breeze into power everytime!!!
We up here have to have faith in ourselves that we can manage our own affairs and economy and not be screwed by the Tories ever again!!
We need to be strong, Scotland is a country in it's own right, we can do this and make her great again!!
Have faith in yourselves!!!
C3..............;)
Most unionists will argue that we can go for further devolution without having a complete break so that large UK institutions can remain intact and undisturbed. At present Eck and the SNP have chosen to lead the debate so it is for them to make the case for independence NOT for unionists to justify the Status Quo (we have history to do that). I want Eck to tell us exactly what his proposals are and how he's going to resource/fund them.
My particular interest is defence and so far Eck and the SNP have shown total ignorance regarding military matters. He has shown the same ignorance of many other matters. I'm sure in the lead up to the referendum there will be any number of people coming forward to dispel many of his dreams.
Here's a video of the full conference speech (37:15) for anyone who is interested:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDQ3zgf5yVk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDQ3zgf5yVk
Ooh that man sets my teeth on edge. I don't know why but I have a good instinct for these things. He'll do me no good.
Ooh that man sets my teeth on edge. I don't know why but I have a good instinct for these things. He'll do me no good.
Aye Duke, that's because you are English and don't want to break away from good old Blighty!!
You must like Scotland to be up here in the first place, did you leave England because you could see it going downhill and you could see the "Good life" up here?
Whatever your reason for being here do you still want to be Governed by England and it's MP's?
Embrace your new place of abode and be proud that you are part of a great nation and embrace freedom from Westminster, they do not care one jot about us up here whereas the SNP do.
Being born the wrong side of the Border isn't a crime, it's just bad luck!!! But you are here now and a part of what is to become a fine Independent country!!
Dont sit on the fence Duke, it's the SNP we are backing, not one Man who sets your teeth on edge!!
C3..................;)
Aye Duke, that's because you are English and don't want to break away from good old Blighty!!
You must like Scotland to be up here in the first place, did you leave England because you could see it going downhill and you could see the "Good life" up here?
Whatever your reason for being here do you still want to be Governed by England and it's MP's?
Embrace your new place of abode and be proud that you are part of a great nation and embrace freedom from Westminster, they do not care one jot about us up here whereas the SNP do.
Being born the wrong side of the Border isn't a crime, it's just bad luck!!! But you are here now and a part of what is to become a fine Independent country!!
Dont sit on the fence Duke, it's the SNP we are backing, not one Man who sets your teeth on edge!!
C3..................;)
Lol. hardly new. I've been here about 20 years. That's a lot longer than many Scottish voters in the referendum if Eck has his way. And no thank you. I'm a UK citizen and prefer to remain that way.
I for one would rather be ruled by Westminster than Strathclyde, you think they care about us here away from Holyrood? - dream on, not even Inverness could give a monkeys for us up here - just look at Hiughland Council politics
Being born the wrong side of the Border isn't a crime, it's just bad luck!!! But you are here now and a part of what is to become a fine Independent country!!
Dont sit on the fence Duke, it's the SNP we are backing, not one Man who sets your teeth on edge!! C3.....
I was born in Scotland, actually in Dunbar maternity unit, as well. I have been eligable to vote since 1958, goodness knows how many elections that is. I have voted in a few referendums also, and only regretted the result of one, going into the EU.
There is no way I will be voting for Eck and his bunch of Tartan Tories and the next neverendum. I have changed the party I have voted for a few times, and never regretted my choice. But no way am I voting SNP, I would go and support Heart o Midlothian first. Ducati follow your head, not Corries rose tinted blinkers.
I was born in Scotland, actually in Dunbar maternity unit, as well. I have been eligable to vote since 1958, goodness knows how many elections that is. I have voted in a few referendums also, and only regretted the result of one, going into the EU.
There is no way I will be voting for Eck and his bunch of Tartan Tories and the next neverendum. I have changed the party I have voted for a few times, and never regretted my choice. But no way am I voting SNP, I would go and support Heart o Midlothian first. Ducati follow your head, not Corries rose tinted blinkers.
You go for a no vote Golach....................and then repent at leisure!!!!
C3..................;)
I was born in Scotland, actually in Dunbar maternity unit, as well. I have been eligable to vote since 1958, goodness knows how many elections that is. I have voted in a few referendums also, and only regretted the result of one, going into the EU.
There is no way I will be voting for Eck and his bunch of Tartan Tories and the next neverendum. I have changed the party I have voted for a few times, and never regretted my choice. But no way am I voting SNP, I would go and support Heart o Midlothian first. Ducati follow your head, not Corries rose tinted blinkers.
One of the great things about the UK is you can live where you want, follow the work, relocate at different parts of your life as it suits you. I feel no different in Scotland as when I lived in Cheshire. I might equally one day decide to move to Cornwall or Northumberland and feel the same.
So is a vote for Independence a vote for the SNP? Can you not be a labour voter and yet still vote yes for independence? Does it necessarily follow that you HAVE to be an SNP supporter to be a supporter of Independence?
As an example - Many people think that the people who are naturally tory voters are badly served by the conservative party here in Scotland and that post independence the "tory" right of centre policies will have to be represented by a party independent of The Conservative Party as it stands just now. Does it not then follow that if you are right of centre in your political views then Independence is a good alternative for you as you may get chance to vote for a party that will actually get some seats and influence policy and the future of Scotland?
So is a vote for Independence a vote for the SNP? Can you not be a labour voter and yet still vote yes for independence? Does it necessarily follow that you HAVE to be an SNP supporter to be a supporter of Independence?
As an example - Many people think that the people who are naturally tory voters are badly served by the conservative party here in Scotland and that post independence the "tory" right of centre policies will have to be represented by a party independent of The Conservative Party as it stands just now. Does it not then follow that if you are right of centre in your political views then Independence is a good alternative for you as you may get chance to vote for a party that will actually get some seats and influence policy and the future of Scotland?
You are also represented by and support a Unionist party so no, that doesn't follow.:D
Throughout any political threads on this Org there are very strong undercurrents of visceral loathing for the Tories - even though the Tories are now in effect a remaindered party with little influence in Scottish politics. The next to fall soon will be the Liberal Democrats, because of their association with the Condem government coalition. Soon after, attention will turn to the Labour party, who will be blamed for years of misrule and for failing to staunch the continuing mandate south of the border.
Then, guess whose turn it will be. And long before 1000 days have passed. You will learn to hate your own Nationalist party with the same venom you hated all the others.
Especially when they show you the bill for Independence - AFTER you have "voted".
It might not be a bad idea at this point for someone to explain how Scotland has been better off since devolution. That might give us some steer as to whether going further is a good idea?
I'd still like to hear some views.......
Starters for ten
Prescription Charges.
This is a small but important . If you are on a low income yet still pay for prescriptions - ie: arent on a means tested benefit - then paying for prescriptions can strain your already stretched budget. As an example - after I had my appendix out I had a mild but persistent and irritating infection. I had to have five differenet lots of antibiotics and dressings - i would have struggled to find the extra money out of my already stretched budget. If you are comfortably off or disgustingly healthy then this isnt a big deal to you. However it is still important because it is about equality of access to health care. Now it doesnt matter if you are rich or poor you can ALL afford to get better as quickly as possible.
Hospital Car park charges
Similar to the above really - When my boy was poorly he was in hospital for more than four weeks over all, running backward and forwards, trying to afford extra petrol AND paying for parking again stretched our budget further than we needed it to. When my husband was in hospital for a serious operation a couple of years alter the cost was less and I didnt have to worry about parking charges. People on very low incomes may very well have had to choose NOT to visit bec ause of the cost. Small but important detail.
University fees
With a 17 year old hoping to do medicine I feel that free university education is very important and trying to keep debt to a minimum means tha\t Scottish Students will leave with less debt than they would have done if we had been governed by the other parties.
Police
We have an increase in police officers I believe and a commitment to maintain that. I am not sure I agree with the plan for a national force but we still ahve more police on the streets.
Elderly
We have free personal care for the elderly. Beleive me I know that Services for elderly people are stretched and not perfect but we still have this where it is not available elsewhere.
Education
We have smaller class sizes for primary schools, we also have more free places for nursery age children - good or bad???? not sure but I have the option to use it if I want to for Fianna who is 3 in July. We have the curriculum for excellence which I cant get a handle on whether its a good or a bad idea. I dont think the profession is decided yet and i cant tell if thats about a resistence to change or cos its rubbish but if I ask my sons friends several of whom are training as teachers they thinkit is fantastic but if i ask some of my children's teachers they are less enthusuastic.
Council Tax
Frozen - im not going to get into a conversation on this lol... there is a whole thread devoted to Council tax.
Many may think these things dont amount to much but it depends on your situation, to me it shows a focus on trying to even out society a bit and make things better for ordinary people. I think thats a good thing and a different focus than the government in Westminster.
Hospital Car park charges
Similar to the above really - When my boy was poorly he was in hospital for more than four weeks over all, running backward and forwards, trying to afford extra petrol AND paying for parking again stretched our budget further than we needed it to. When my husband was in hospital for a serious operation a couple of years alter the cost was less and I didnt have to worry about parking charges. People on very low incomes may very well have had to choose NOT to visit bec ause of the cost. Small but important detail. .
Small but expensive detail Squidge. Not all are as lucky as you getting free parking at your hospital, we in Edinburgh dont. see below
http://en.parkopedia.co.uk/parking/carpark/royal_infirmary_of_edinburgh/eh16/edinburgh/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15622723
Small but expensive detail Squidge. Not all are as lucky as you getting free parking at your hospital, we in Edinburgh dont. see below
http://en.parkopedia.co.uk/parking/carpark/royal_infirmary_of_edinburgh/eh16/edinburgh/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15622723
Not quite all the story, Golach.
Parking is free at the Edinburgh Western General and St. John's, Livingston. At the Edinburgh Royal Infirmary parking is charged for but the hospital is not owned by NHS Lothian but leased long term from a private company under one of those PPP or PPI deals so beloved by Westminster. I don't know about the minor hospitals in Lothian but the above are the significant ones.
So, as usual, Squidge is right on this.
Partan
Starters for ten
Prescription Charges.
This is a small but important . If you are on a low income yet still pay for prescriptions - ie: arent on a means tested benefit - then paying for prescriptions can strain your already stretched budget. As an example - after I had my appendix out I had a mild but persistent and irritating infection. I had to have five differenet lots of antibiotics and dressings - i would have struggled to find the extra money out of my already stretched budget. If you are comfortably off or disgustingly healthy then this isnt a big deal to you. However it is still important because it is about equality of access to health care. Now it doesnt matter if you are rich or poor you can ALL afford to get better as quickly as possible.
Hospital Car park charges
Similar to the above really - When my boy was poorly he was in hospital for more than four weeks over all, running backward and forwards, trying to afford extra petrol AND paying for parking again stretched our budget further than we needed it to. When my husband was in hospital for a serious operation a couple of years alter the cost was less and I didnt have to worry about parking charges. People on very low incomes may very well have had to choose NOT to visit bec ause of the cost. Small but important detail.
University fees
With a 17 year old hoping to do medicine I feel that free university education is very important and trying to keep debt to a minimum means tha\t Scottish Students will leave with less debt than they would have done if we had been governed by the other parties.
Police
We have an increase in police officers I believe and a commitment to maintain that. I am not sure I agree with the plan for a national force but we still ahve more police on the streets.
Elderly
We have free personal care for the elderly. Beleive me I know that Services for elderly people are stretched and not perfect but we still have this where it is not available elsewhere.
Education
We have smaller class sizes for primary schools, we also have more free places for nursery age children - good or bad???? not sure but I have the option to use it if I want to for Fianna who is 3 in July. We have the curriculum for excellence which I cant get a handle on whether its a good or a bad idea. I dont think the profession is decided yet and i cant tell if thats about a resistence to change or cos its rubbish but if I ask my sons friends several of whom are training as teachers they thinkit is fantastic but if i ask some of my children's teachers they are less enthusuastic.
Council Tax
Frozen - im not going to get into a conversation on this lol... there is a whole thread devoted to Council tax.
Many may think these things dont amount to much but it depends on your situation, to me it shows a focus on trying to even out society a bit and make things better for ordinary people. I think thats a good thing and a different focus than the government in Westminster.
Great examples thanks Squidge.
Any more? Just cos' none of the above affect me at the mo.
Comment though, you say fairer but we all benefit from the above regardless of our circumstances. Wouldn't it be better to target say free education, free prescriptions, free care for the elderly, (BTW my Mum in England gets that at home). And have those that can afford it pay a contribution?
Great examples thanks Squidge. Any more? Just cos' none of the above affect me at the mo.Comment though, you say fairer but we all benefit from the above regardless of our circumstances. Wouldn't it be better to target say free education, free prescriptions, free care for the elderly, (BTW my Mum in England gets that at home). And have those that can afford it pay a contribution?I dont believe so. I think it is better to have these things free and to tax high earners at higher rate. The problem with means testing things like this is that you create a cut off which is usuallyincome support level and then you arrange for people on low incomes to apply for exemption. Invariably many do not, either through pride or ignorance. Pension credits are a case in point. Because they needed to be CLAIMED many people did not claim them. I admit I am not sure what the take up rate is these days but it was initially hard to persuade some people to claim. By making them free you ensure that everyone benefits and high earners contribute by paying a bitmore tax. As for expensive well it depends on your priorities. That the SNP makes these things a priority appeals to me. Whilst they dont put massive amounts in our pockets they ease worries for many people.
Not quite all the story, Golach. So, as usual, Squidge is right on this.Partan
Partan, Squidge inferred in her post that all hospital parking charges in Scotland were free, I was only pointing out to her,that her information was faulty, nothing more, but I notice you never took me up on the main hospitals in Glasgow or Dundee.
You are right Golach i did think all hospitals were free but i see from your links that all those that are within the control of the NHS are free. The charges are left over from the PFI initiative and the government has lobbied for the charges to be removed as soon as contracts can be renewed.
Partan, Squidge inferred in her post that all hospital parking charges in Scotland were free, I was only pointing out to her,that her information was faulty, nothing more, but I notice you never took me up on the main hospitals in Glasgow or Dundee.
Golach, you implied that in Edinburgh you have to pay parking charges at all hospitals. I merely pointed out that you were wrong.
Partan
Golach, you implied that in Edinburgh you have to pay parking charges at all hospitals. I merely pointed out that you were wrong.Partan
Partan pull you claws in, I posted the links to Edinbugh Royal, Glasgow and Dundee, I never mentioned the Western general or any other hospital!!!
secrets in symmetry
16-Mar-12, 23:15
Not quite all the story, Golach.
Parking is free at the Edinburgh Western General and St. John's, Livingston. At the Edinburgh Royal Infirmary parking is charged for but the hospital is not owned by NHS Lothian but leased long term from a private company under one of those PPP or PPI deals so beloved by Westminster. I don't know about the minor hospitals in Lothian but the above are the significant ones.
So, as usual, Squidge is right on this.
PartanNot quite all the story, Partan.
St John's, Livingston is not in Edinburgh. Golach's post was about Edinburgh hospitals.
Parking at the Western General may be free, but it's very difficult to get a parking space, and it's easier to park nearby and then walk to the hospital. I don't actually know whether it's free or not - because I've never managed to find a parking space there!
Parking at the Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh costs money, but the car park is huuuuuuge, and it's easy to find a space.
weezer 316
17-Mar-12, 12:58
Last time i checked class sizes were up.....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16056744
And werent the SNP widely criticized for the failure of thir policy on this a few years ago?
Last time i checked class sizes were up.....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16056744
And werent the SNP widely criticized for the failure of thir policy on this a few years ago?
This thread isnt about the SNP its about Scotland since devolution, Class sizes have fallen since devolution but its a constant struggle especially with the fall in teachers.
secrets in symmetry
17-Mar-12, 20:45
Getting back to hospital parking, parking at Glasgow's main hospitals is much worse that at the RIE. I tend to take the train/subway/bus to all but the Southern General (which is a bit out of the way). Parking may not be cheap at the Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh, but you're guaranteed to get a space - unlike at any of Glasgow's major hospitals.
Yea well the parking will be easyer when we are a free nation and all the SNP haters have abandoned the doomed nation to save them selfs as refuges in Engerland...More folks voted for the SNP and independence than any thing else and when we get to vote then we will be voting for indepndence....job done...
Extract from Ebay listing:
Postage is for uk mainland only ( excluding scotland )
if not uk mainland ( excluding scotland ) please contact us for
postal price to your area prior to purchasing an item from us
Blimey!:eek:
Extract from Ebay listing:
Postage is for uk mainland only ( excluding scotland )
if not uk mainland ( excluding scotland ) please contact us for
postal price to your area prior to purchasing an item from us
Blimey!:eek:
I hate these dodgy postings, Scotland is technically the UK mainland. eBay are so toothless though they never enforce this with sellers. It's attitudes like this that are fueling the independence movement actually.
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