View Full Version : Council Tax!
Am i the only one mad as hell over this tax! Surely there can be a fairer system! the last time I complained to a n MP about this I got the old "but we all have to pay council tax" that was just before the MP's expense scandal and turned out that most were getting theirs payed through false expense claims and the taxpayers money being used for it!
I can't believe people are allowing themselves to be bullied like this! I have heard plenty horror stories about the council's lack of empathy and seen with my own eyes how they run their "boys club" to suit themselves!
Oh I know I will probably get lambasted for DARING to rebel against "our overlords" by the goody two shoes members of our society who love to cowtow to anyone in authority but I don't care! there are more people suffering at the hands of the Highland council than are benefiting and if people just start standing up to these bullies that is how things will change.
If a meeting was held who here would attend? who would stick their neck out with me and see if we can put a stop to the rape of this county! or are we all more mice than men!
It's comparatively cheap, and fair. What do you want?
I doubt you'd raise enough in the highlands with a local income tax.
Alice in Blunderland
10-Mar-12, 18:33
https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQunbRVsTridvwEnWhrnOFL_7FhoF4AS k-un1JV7mXqevYk9Sl7
;)
Oh for heavens sake get off the soap box and stick your name forward for the elections if you feel so strongly about it !!
Heres a handy link for you
http://www.highland.gov.uk/yourcouncil/elections/
(http://www.highland.gov.uk/yourcouncil/elections/)
Good Luck :D
Oh and I agree with Ducati it could be a lot worse.
I'm just thankful it's been frozen for the last few years. Once they start raising it again us on small fixed incomes are going to be living in a rolled up newspaper in middle of roooaad!
https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQunbRVsTridvwEnWhrnOFL_7FhoF4AS k-un1JV7mXqevYk9Sl7
;)
Oh for heavens sake get off the soap box and stick your name forward for the elections if you feel so strongly about it !!
Heres a handy link for you
http://www.highland.gov.uk/yourcouncil/elections/
(http://www.highland.gov.uk/yourcouncil/elections/)
Good Luck :D
Oh and I agree with Ducati it could be a lot worse.
Ah, the old "if you don't like it why not put your name forward" line, well I have no desire to become a pen pushing lackie for the government, but I resent what they are doing to people on low incomes, despite all the solem promises from the Lib dems about making the council tax income based, and is a public forum not the very place to get on my soapbox. Or should we "useless eaters" simply dance to any tune the Council/government play?
Sorry edited this cause I posted same thing twice..oops.
Am i the only one mad as hell over this tax! Surely there can be a fairer system!
Yes... There is... But no party is prepared to implement it as it would mean that some voters would end up paying more...
What is this alternative I speak off...
A local income tax... that way the more you have the more you pay... Conversely... the less you have the less you pay...
& while your at it, why not combine the water charge in with the council tax since after all they are collected together, that way, the poor who receive council tax benefit also receive benefit for the water charge as well.
Yes... There is... But no party is prepared to implement it as it would mean that some voters would end up paying more...
What is this alternative I speak off...
A local income tax... that way the more you have the more you pay... Conversely... the less you have the less you pay...
& while your at it, why not combine the water charge in with the council tax since after all they are collected together, that way, the poor who receive council tax benefit also receive benefit for the water charge as well.
Exactly, and that was the promise of the lib dems because they knew that was a fairer system, but as soon as they got their foot in the door suddenly fairness doesn't come into it.
Personally though, I wouldn't even go down the road of a local income tax...
Why not scrap locally collected taxes altogether & fund the councils out of the general income tax. That way the cost would be spread more evenly over the whole nation.
Land Value Tax is the fairest method of Local Government funding.
The idea is that we are taxed on the value of the land that our homes are built upon. This helps residents who live in areas which do not have services and communications which enhances land value. Since it is the local society that creates the value of the land then it is only fair that it is taxed because of it.
Here are the words of Winston Churchill
The landlord who happens to own a plot of land on the outskirts of a great city … watches the busy population around him making the city larger, richer, more convenient. .. and all the while sits and does nothing. Roads are made … services are improved … water is brought from reservoirs one hundred miles off in the mountains and -all the while the landlord sits still … To not one of these improvements does the landlord monopolist contribute and yet by every one of them the value of his land is enhanced … At last the land becomes ripe for sale – that means the price is too tempting to be resisted any longer … In fact you may say that the unearned increment … is reaped by the land monopolist in exact proportion not to the service, but to the disservice done.
It would tax the rich and redistribute wealth. It would rejuvenate inner cities by taxing high value brown field sites in the centre of cities thus forcing idle landlords to sell for development, in turn this will open up land availability and help prevent urban sprawl.
Land Value Tax is the fairest method of Local Government funding.
The idea is that we are taxed on the value of the land that our homes are built upon.
In theory a good idea but in practice highly flawed...
For Example:
You have no control over the value of the land, that is dictated by the market. Say you live in a low value area, a nice golf course is built next to you, it suddenly becomes a highly desired area, land value shoots through the roof, Land Value Tax increases substantially, you can't afford to pay this tax increase, you have to move through no choice of your own just because the market dictates it....
Is that fair????
I think not!!!!
In theory a good idea but in practice highly flawed...
For Example:
You have no control over the value of the land, that is dictated by the market. Say you live in a low value area, a nice golf course is built next to you, it suddenly becomes a highly desired area, land value shoots through the roof, Land Value Tax increases substantially, you can't afford to pay this tax increase, you have to move through no choice of your own just because the market dictates it....
Is that fair????
I think not!!!!
With respect, I think you haven't fully understood Land Value Tax.
You said "You have no control over the value of the land, that is dictated by the market."
Precisely, value is dictated by by the market, that is the whole basis upon the LVT.
You said "Say you live in a low value area, a nice golf course is built next to you"
Living near a nice golf course has marginal effect on value of land, as I said, good amenities and communications raise land values.
You said "You have no control over the value of the land, that is dictated by the market."
Precisely, value is dictated by by the market, that is the whole basis upon the LVT.
Exactly my point... The market is fickle & unpredictable... What's the difference between taxing someone off their land & forcibly evicting them, by gunpoint in necessary, just because that land has some renewed, unforeseen value?
You said "Say you live in a low value area, a nice golf course is built next to you"
Living near a nice golf course has marginal effect on value of land, as I said, good amenities and communications raise land values.
You miss quoted me there by missing out...
For Example:
I was not being literal, was just plucking a random idea out of the air to demonstrate my point, you can replace golf course with whatever you want... Hospital, School, Synagogue... etc...
The Poll Tax was a much fairer system. They just brought it in too quickly, and didn't get it right. House value or land value shouldn't come into it. We pay for services provided, i.e refuse collection, roads, schools, libraries, street lighting etc. etc. so every person who's in work should pay the same, no matter where they live.
I was not being literal, was just plucking a random idea out of the air to demonstrate my point, you can replace golf course with whatever you want... Hospital, School, Synagogue... etc...
In that case the land will have value and be subjected to higher tax. It is fair that the people who have those things should pay for them.
weezer 316
11-Mar-12, 14:52
oooh the poor wee people! Hotting low incomes....but we want services!! Must be a fairer way ie: some other monkey can pay......
Your bins and water and what the hell else have you cost the same whether you live in the middle of Glasgow or Thurso. What exactly do you suggest happens? Perhaps ditching the "screw authority" attitude might let you see you get vital services and you get that at well below market rates, but then its not about authority really is it sunshine? Its about the fact you need to bloody well pay for these things your moaning about isnt it?
In that case the land will have value and be subjected to higher tax. It is fair that the people who have those things should pay for them.
We both seem to be in agreement that the system should be fair, just different definitions of what fair is.
The Poll Tax was a much fairer system. They just brought it in too quickly, and didn't get it right. House value or land value shouldn't come into it. We pay for services provided, i.e refuse collection, roads, schools, libraries, street lighting etc. etc. so every person who's in work should pay the same, no matter where they live.Sorry but I disagree, we live out in the country and get none of that services so why should we pay £105 a month which we do :( not had our bins lifted in 6 years, our road never gets gritted, we have no kids at school, don't use library and don't have street lighting, so why should we be paying what we pay, we refused to pay it a couple of years ago and hubby's wages got arrested, it is unfair :(
Everybody pays council tax - we all contribute to the society we live in. rs2k your road might not be gritted but you will drive on roads that are gritted; your bins might not be picked up from outside your house but the council collects rubbish all over the county - im sure that you would not like it if your drive to work or elsewhere was through a tip. People may not have children but they may have had children at some point or may yet have them, or at the very least took advantage of schooling when they were children themselves - why would any of us begredge paying for an education system?. We all contribute to the society we live in - sometimes we use more, sometimes we use less but generally over a lifetime it evens out. Is there a fairer way? I dont think so - you pay depending on the house you live in. When you buy it you know how much the tax is and you surely expect to pay that for as long as you live there. I dont think poll tax was the way to go either. Maybe a local income tax is better but whichever way you go, you, and I, and the man across the street will have to pay for the services we as a community/society require. I hate paying council tax - its sometimes a stretch too far but It has to be paid and thats just that.
oooh the poor wee people! Hotting low incomes....but we want services!! Must be a fairer way ie: some other monkey can pay......
Your bins and water and what the hell else have you cost the same whether you live in the middle of Glasgow or Thurso. What exactly do you suggest happens? Perhaps ditching the "screw authority" attitude might let you see you get vital services and you get that at well below market rates, but then its not about authority really is it sunshine? Its about the fact you need to bloody well pay for these things your moaning about isnt it?
Ooooh! thumbing your nose at those on low income and calling me sunshine! well with an attitude like that you'd make a good councillor, and for your info I do not have a "screw authority" attitude, I have a "screw those who overstep their authority" attitude and perhaps if there were more like me we wouldn't be bringing dead bodies home from an illegal war or having to run a country on whatever is left after the politicians have had their nose in the trough.
As for the services of the council, why should someone pay for services they don't use, and pay under threat of force!
I'm sure everyone wants to pay their FAIR share for services but when low income workers are being forced to pay more than they can afford then what use is having your bins emptied if it means you can't afford rent, food or heating.
Your sarcasm towards low income workers isn't really well thought out was it, because young apprentices are usually low paid yet they are tomorrows plumbers, mechanics, bakers etc , much needed members of our community, others are volunteers who work for free but because of that they earn very little through part time work etc.
No you sound too much like one of those "I'm alright jack, screw everyone else" types, perhaps you ARE a councillor or politician.
Anyway lets have less of the name calling shall we and if you don't have something constructive to add may I suggest not posting anything. Pff
Do folk just come on here to start an argument, best keeping your thoughts on council tax to yourself, council tax is here we all have to pay it or we end up like rs2k's hubby !
Would hate to see how angry you are about that........................rant over...
Whether you're a pensioner or a pilot, an engineer or an ecologist, a solicitor or a secretary, a nurse or a neurosurgeon, it doesn't matter; if you live in a house in the same Council tax band, you pay the same Council Tax!
That’s because the Council Tax is based on the value of your home and takes no account of a person's income and their ability to pay.
The result is that people with less income, pay a greater proportion of their resources than those with more. In 2005, Council tax accounted for 4.7% of the income of the bottom 20% of households and just 1.4% of the top 20%. I’m sure there are more up-to-date figures out there somewhere.
Council tax remains unfair, since it results in the poorest 20% of households paying three times as much, as a proportion of their income, as the richest 20%.
Thankfully Council tax has been frozen. However if Council tax were to increase year on year the poorest in society will pay an increasing proportion of what little income they have in Council tax till they reach the point where they have no resources left with which to pay. Demographics and the future financial situation indicate there will be a significant increase in people trying to live on small fixed incomes. If the issue of Council tax is not carefully monitored we could find our courts overburden.
It really annoys me that the family of a deceased person still has to pay council tax over the deceased persons property whilst it is on the market lying empty with no bins to empty. Now whats that all about?
Do folk just come on here to start an argument, best keeping your thoughts on council tax to yourself, council tax is here we all have to pay it or we end up like rs2k's hubby !
Would hate to see how angry you are about that........................rant over...
No folk don't just come on here for an argument...least I'm not. Last time I looked this is a public forum and issues like council tax should be discussed. Keep my "thoughts on council tax to myself"! obviously you have no problem paying it and could n't give a hoot for those who are suffering at the hands of the council, another "I'm alright Jack" are we?
i know you would rather see a "Whats your favouite music" thread or "who's your favourite soap star" thread but I think we should be discussing REAL issues that are causing problems to our low income earners.
Bottom line is , you don't have to take part in the discussion nor do you have to follow the thread so what are ranting for? if your qiute happy to pay council tax fine, just you ignore the suffering of others..maybe it'll go away:confused
They were sending threatening letters to my mother demanding she paid her CT even after telling them NUMEROUS times she had passed away months earlier, adding to the anxiety and suffering of the whole family!
weezer 316
14-Mar-12, 20:19
Ooooh! thumbing your nose at those on low income and calling me sunshine! well with an attitude like that you'd make a good councillor, and for your info I do not have a "screw authority" attitude, I have a "screw those who overstep their authority" attitude and perhaps if there were more like me we wouldn't be bringing dead bodies home from an illegal war or having to run a country on whatever is left after the politicians have had their nose in the trough.
As for the services of the council, why should someone pay for services they don't use, and pay under threat of force!
I'm sure everyone wants to pay their FAIR share for services but when low income workers are being forced to pay more than they can afford then what use is having your bins emptied if it means you can't afford rent, food or heating.
Your sarcasm towards low income workers isn't really well thought out was it, because young apprentices are usually low paid yet they are tomorrows plumbers, mechanics, bakers etc , much needed members of our community, others are volunteers who work for free but because of that they earn very little through part time work etc.
No you sound too much like one of those "I'm alright jack, screw everyone else" types, perhaps you ARE a councillor or politician.
Anyway lets have less of the name calling shall we and if you don't have something constructive to add may I suggest not posting anything. Pff
Yes , Im thumbing it up to those on low incomes!
You create rubbish yes? You use water yes? You use roads? What about wanting servies like homes and parks there for use? Or car parks? Libraries? What about Schools? Yes bloody schools? Well if you want them BLOODY WELL PAY FOR THEM! If they werent there you would be on moaning about that wouldnt you?? And its been frozen for years, which onvolves central govt paying extra to councils to keeop it that way.....and you still moan!
Go to north korea. Or Somalia. Or Congo. Then come back and whinge about your tax that provides things, reliably and incredibly reasonably priced.
oh and for the record I earn just above minimum wage, live on my own with a child to look after. And I will tell you I still dont pay enough tax. And neither do you.
Ooooo I like it when you come out all guns blazing weezer, :lol:
Yes , Im thumbing it up to those on low incomes!
You create rubbish yes? You use water yes? You use roads? What about wanting servies like homes and parks there for use? Or car parks? Libraries? What about Schools? Yes bloody schools? Well if you want them BLOODY WELL PAY FOR THEM! If they werent there you would be on moaning about that wouldnt you?? And its been frozen for years, which onvolves central govt paying extra to councils to keeop it that way.....and you still moan!
Go to north korea. Or Somalia. Or Congo. Then come back and whinge about your tax that provides things, reliably and incredibly reasonably priced.
oh and for the record I earn just above minimum wage, live on my own with a child to look after. And I will tell you I still dont pay enough tax. And neither do you.
Yes we benefit from the services provided by our Highland Council, I won't deny that. However I'm intrigued by your last line, bringing up a child on your own, earning the minimum wage and you still don't think you pay enough tax! I suspect you're somewhat cushioned by the tax credits you get, the child benefit you receive and the Council tax discount for being the only adult in the house. You could of course decline that extra support in lieu of additional tax and as a salve to your conscience.
weezer 316
14-Mar-12, 23:42
Ooooo I like it when you come out all guns blazing weezer, :lol:
Yes we benefit from the services provided by our Highland Council, I won't deny that. However I'm intrigued by your last line, bringing up a child on your own, earning the minimum wage and you still don't think you pay enough tax! I suspect you're somewhat cushioned by the tax credits you get, the child benefit you receive and the Council tax discount for being the only adult in the house. You could of course decline that extra support in lieu of additional tax and as a salve to your conscience.
For sure I am. Im up about £100 a month with credits. That, frankly is crazy. I cant afford bin services, schooling, NHS, roads and every other thing going on my own, and this country has been running a deficit for years to provide those things. I think, and bare in mind I voted tory in the last election, we should pay more. I wont be able to claim tax credits past september this year, but thats fine, fortunately I live within my means and will still be in the black and crucually i wont be on here whinging I am being shafted when in actual fact I am still amongst the top 20% of earners on the planet and have literally a life of luxury comapred to most.
The attitude of some on here, in particular with respects to things like theese is a joke, and its not pliticians or councillors or bankers or footballers thats leading this country down the swanny, its people with attitudes like that.
You create rubbish yes? You use water yes? You use roads? What about wanting servies like homes and parks there for use? Or car parks? Libraries? What about Schools? Yes bloody schools? Well if you want them BLOODY WELL PAY FOR THEM! If they werent there you would be on moaning about that wouldnt you?? And its been frozen for years, which onvolves central govt paying extra to councils to keeop it that way.....and you still moan!Go Weezey, Go Weezey, Go Weezey!!! Too bliddy right!
For sure I am. Im up about £100 a month with credits. That, frankly is crazy. I cant afford bin services, schooling, NHS, roads and every other thing going on my own, and this country has been running a deficit for years to provide those things. I think, and bare in mind I voted tory in the last election, we should pay more. I wont be able to claim tax credits past september this year, but thats fine, fortunately I live within my means and will still be in the black and crucually i wont be on here whinging I am being shafted when in actual fact I am still amongst the top 20% of earners on the planet and have literally a life of luxury comapred to most.
The attitude of some on here, in particular with respects to things like theese is a joke, and its not pliticians or councillors or bankers or footballers thats leading this country down the swanny, its people with attitudes like that.
I can see your point, we do demand a lot of services. However people will argue that we already pay too much tax. If you're lucky enough to be in work you'll pay Income tax and NI contributions. Use electricity and/or gas you'll pay 5% VAT. Buy virtualy anything else you'll pay 20% VAT. The accummulated effect of these taxes is driving people into poverty, especially the low paid and people on small fixed incomes. It might be a joke to you but I don't see the vulnerable poor laughing. If anyone has a right to an 'attitude' it those who are feeling the pinch the most.
You might be an avid supporter of politicians and councillors but it's their attitude that has led to the squandering of our tax revenue. Virtually every major capital project in recent years has gone well over budget, Millenium Dome, Holyrood, Olympic Games etc. Bankers were once a respected profession, they brought wealth to the economy, until they adopted their laissez-faire attitude to investment and brought the economy crashing down around us.
The people with 'attitude' that you show so much distain for are ordinary people who just want to get on with their lives without the politicians or councillors or bankers continually dipping their grubby hands into our pockets.
No folk don't just come on here for an argument...least I'm not. Last time I looked this is a public forum and issues like council tax should be discussed. Keep my "thoughts on council tax to myself"! obviously you have no problem paying it and could n't give a hoot for those who are suffering at the hands of the council, another "I'm alright Jack" are we?
i know you would rather see a "Whats your favouite music" thread or "who's your favourite soap star" thread but I think we should be discussing REAL issues that are causing problems to our low income earners.
Bottom line is , you don't have to take part in the discussion nor do you have to follow the thread so what are ranting for? if your qiute happy to pay council tax fine, just you ignore the suffering of others..maybe it'll go away:confused
Oh " I'm alright Jack " am i? who are you to think i don't suffer?? i/we would be suffering more if i/we did'nt bother paying council tax. so i won't be judged by you, at no point did i say i was happy paying it.
Yes i agree they should be discussed but i think this is a discussion to be taken up with a local M.P regarding the "suffering or our low income earners like myself". The realistic outlook of the council tax will likely remain exactly where it is .
Bottom line is you don't have to reply to every reply nor use a shallow minded attitude to what you think you know about what i would like to see with regards to threads. Like you say it is a public forum
NOT for judging people.......
It really annoys me that the family of a deceased person still has to pay council tax over the deceased persons property whilst it is on the market lying empty with no bins to empty. Now whats that all about?
David,
We recently moved address and kept the old property, you can get away without paying council tax for 6 months providing there is no furniture what so ever in that property ( they will check this ) not sure what happens after that 6 months though, i would assume they would check the property again to prove it has not been lived in.
hope thats of some help.
and bare in mind I voted tory in the last election,
Oh Dear, bit of a wasted vote then Weeze?
So with you and the Duke voting for them I would say they did very well in the Far North, Cameron must have been very happy with that result!!
C3..................:eek::roll:;)
Oh Dear, bit of a wasted vote then Weeze?
So with you and the Duke voting for them I would say they did very well in the Far North, Cameron must have been very happy with that result!!
C3..................:eek::roll:;)
If you think you don't like tax levels now C3...................
Restlessnative
15-Mar-12, 12:32
Council tax in its current form is nothing but pure extortion, If you can't see that you need to pull your head out of the place it's firmly lodged :D
Why should I pay for services I don't use ?
Why should I pay for services I don't use ?
You pay for these services because you have used them, or you are currently using them, or will use them in the future. My children are grown up and earning but we still contribute to the education budget because we're investing in future generations. I only use the Library occasionally but recognise that it is valuable resource for the community and would want it to be available for everyone. I live in my own home but acknowledge that the time might come when I will need support or even 24 hour care in a residential home.
So I don't begrudge paying my share, (if you read my earlier posts you’ll see that it’s the ‘sharing’ of the tax burden that concerns me most) There has to be a more equitable way of sharing the load so that the poorest are protected.
weezer 316
17-Mar-12, 13:20
I can see your point, we do demand a lot of services. However people will argue that we already pay too much tax. If you're lucky enough to be in work you'll pay Income tax and NI contributions. Use electricity and/or gas you'll pay 5% VAT. Buy virtualy anything else you'll pay 20% VAT. The accummulated effect of these taxes is driving people into poverty, especially the low paid and people on small fixed incomes. It might be a joke to you but I don't see the vulnerable poor laughing. If anyone has a right to an 'attitude' it those who are feeling the pinch the most.
You might be an avid supporter of politicians and councillors but it's their attitude that has led to the squandering of our tax revenue. Virtually every major capital project in recent years has gone well over budget, Millenium Dome, Holyrood, Olympic Games etc. Bankers were once a respected profession, they brought wealth to the economy, until they adopted their laissez-faire attitude to investment and brought the economy crashing down around us.
The people with 'attitude' that you show so much distain for are ordinary people who just want to get on with their lives without the politicians or councillors or bankers continually dipping their grubby hands into our pockets.
Come on gronnuck! Your not stupid. we pay enough tax??? If we want the services we have we need to pay MORE tax! Please see below. This is you and I that have created this by demanding more services and less tax.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/oct/26/government-spending-department-2010-11
Can councils cant borrow their way out of this either like labour have done.
Surely you can see the costs of all the things you want are beyond what we as a nation are willing to pay?
weezer 316
17-Mar-12, 13:21
Oh Dear, bit of a wasted vote then Weeze?
So with you and the Duke voting for them I would say they did very well in the Far North, Cameron must have been very happy with that result!!
C3..................:eek::roll:;)
Indeed. As ducati says, if you dont like the taxes just now just wait till we eck gets his way!
I would happily pay more tax for better services and a government who is working for a fairer society, better services and has the desire to do the best for Scotlands people. Id pay more tax to improve services for the elderly, to maintain free university education or to fund improvements in hospitals or even to pay for the removal of trident. That doesnt mean scrapping the higher rate tax band whilst proposing a freeze on northern public sector workers and changing tax credits so many single parents are worse off by up to 60 quid a week or charging tuition fees whilst allowing loopholes that let vodafone and their ilk walk away from their tax liabilities.
Come on gronnuck! Your not stupid. we pay enough tax??? If we want the services we have we need to pay MORE tax! Please see below. This is you and I that have created this by demanding more services and less tax.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/oct/26/government-spending-department-2010-11
Can councils cant borrow their way out of this either like labour have done.
Surely you can see the costs of all the things you want are beyond what we as a nation are willing to pay?
Weezer you’re in danger of becoming tiresome. Every time we have this discussion you never acknowledge that people on small fixed incomes cannot afford year-on-year rises in taxes. Any increases in any tax takes a greater proportion of what little disposable income the poorest have.
I have no problem with modest increases in taxes at the moment, I am more fortunate than some.
I know that we have a plethora of services provided by the government and the council. There is a debate about how much the public demanded/needed some of them; or whether they were provided as part of a political party’s efforts to ‘buy’ votes (Greece springs to mind).
The nub of the issue here however is how do you propose to increase taxes and support the poorest in society?
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.