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secrets in symmetry
12-Feb-12, 01:51
In a recent post....


If you believe in a heaven, then you have to believe in a hell!
Does anyone on this forum really believe in Hell?

I mean do you really, truly believe in Hell, or are you going along with what you were once taught just for the Hell of it?

annemarie482
12-Feb-12, 02:53
I don't believe in either.

Phill
12-Feb-12, 08:13
Syria just now?

Or is that just Hell on Earth??

John Little
12-Feb-12, 09:16
The Albigensians believed that this world was Hell...

EDDIE
12-Feb-12, 10:09
In a recent post....


Does anyone on this forum really believe in Hell?

I mean do you really, truly believe in Hell, or are you going along with what you were once taught just for the Hell of it?
I believe in a different dimension after life what it is i dont know but i dont think u live and die and thats it if that were the case life would be pointless exercise mother nature is 2 clever for that

offcomedun
12-Feb-12, 10:32
I'm from Bradford....enough said.

pumkin
12-Feb-12, 10:48
Who's to say that this isn't hell? This reality of which we're a part of is pretty destructive. Humans kill & start wars for no thought or consideration of those on the other side.

I believe (& it is just my opinion) that there is something out there that we have come to know as heaven. Whatever this may be I really don't know, but I think (& again it's just my opinion) that it's a pretty strong argument that THIS is hell.

Alrock
12-Feb-12, 14:30
I believe in a different dimension after life what it is i dont know but i dont think u live and die and thats it if that were the case life would be pointless exercise mother nature is 2 clever for that

Passing on your genes to the next generation is the point of life.... The bit that is pointless is being a sentient being aware of the fact which is merely a by-product of the intelligence we evolved to help us ensure the survival of our genes.

pmcd
12-Feb-12, 14:58
That really gung ho master of jollity, all round good guy, and ace boulevardier and lounge lizard Jean-Paul Sartre once opined in an entirely existentialist way that "l'enfer - c'est les autres" - "Hell is other people". Judging by the maudlin Eeyorisms prevalent on this website - "dour" can actually used as a positive emotion for some contributors - I suspect M. Sartre was cognisant of the Scottish way of life. He would certainly have written this thought with even much more gusto had he ever travelled on some public transport in this fair land.....

Of course it does help if you have some belief in something outside yourself. Whatever it is: a soulmate, a close friend, a spouse, God - anything that stops you looking in the mirror of life and concentrating only on your defects. That is the origin, the provenance, and the source of each person's hell. Thank (insert own choice!) some of us think life on this planet ain't too bad, anyway, and just stop to think of one or two people who smile a lot - like the Dalai Lama - no fixed abode, in exile anyway, over 1000000000 Chinese want him stuffed and mounted, he has't got two Albanian Leks to rub together, lunch tends to be brown rice and water, and still the smile beams for the world to see.

Then look at the dictators, the politicians, people who abuse power, trade union bullies who have "Animal Farm" as a handbook, not a warning - THAT, my friends, is where you will find the hell that Sartre talked of. But I reckon (even though I am not an intellectual, a state registered philosopher or anything other than a senile delinquent) Sartre only got it half right. Heaven, too, is other people. Which makes life a bit sticky for morale if you don't rate it much!

linnie612
12-Feb-12, 16:04
[QUOTE=pmcd;928190] Judging by the maudlin Eeyorisms prevalent on this website - "dour" can actually used as a positive emotion for some contributors.

Made me laugh!:lol:

ducati
12-Feb-12, 23:54
The Albigensians believed that this world was Hell...

Didn't do 'em much good eh?

John Little
13-Feb-12, 00:01
Didn't do 'em much good eh?

Not really - the Catholics wiped 'em out. Maybe they were right... (not the Catholics)

Kenn
13-Feb-12, 00:04
If I were a believer, which I am not, can see the attraction of hell........no more heating bills!

2little2late
13-Feb-12, 00:06
No such thing as heaven, no such thing as hell. Thank god I'm an atheist.

shazzap
13-Feb-12, 01:39
What about Purgatory. Lets bring all of them, into the mix. Not that i believe in any of them. Being the Atheist i am.

secrets in symmetry
13-Feb-12, 01:51
What about Purgatory. Lets bring all of them, into the mix. Not that i believe in any of them. Being the Atheist i am.I believe in Purgatory. I've been there and I have the photos to prove it! :cool:

Unfortunately, it was during the summer....

Hell exists too, it's in Norway.

Should I close this thread now?

squidge
13-Feb-12, 01:58
My first mum in law used to say

You only have two things to worry about, you are either ill or you are well.

if you are well you have nothing to worry about, if you are ill you only have two things to worry about, you will either get better or youll die.

If you get better you have nothing to worry about, if you die you only
have two things to worry about, you ll either go to heaven or to hell.

If you go to heaven you have nothing to worry about and if you go to
hell youll be so busy shaking hands with people you once knew you
wont have time to worry about anything.

Shabbychic
13-Feb-12, 02:38
Of course it exists. We're living in it now, courtesy of Diablo Dave and his minions.

RecQuery
13-Feb-12, 10:33
Lots of religions have different types and levels of afterlife but nothing on the same level as hell, even some sects of Christianity don't it.

The whole concept seemed odd to me: Someone who slept around a little or stole something could be sentence to eternal torture, but a serial killer that accepted god/Jesus or whatever wouldn't. What about all the good people before the supposed Jesus was born. Okay I mean Dante sort of deals with that one but there's nothing official. Well official as an old book written by farmers and shepards can be.

katarina
13-Feb-12, 10:34
Do you mean a physical Hell with a burning fire and little devils poking you with forks? then no. or the Hell of our own making? yes. Or the hell other people put us through? yes. Or the hell of some sort of spiritual darkness evil souls are banished to once our physical bodies cease to exist? I don't know.

I would rather post the question do you believe in karma?

weezer 316
13-Feb-12, 14:57
No. Next question.

Saveman
13-Feb-12, 16:16
I heard a funny story that supposedly is true.
When her husband died a woman was going along to her church and paying money to the priest. Each time she paid money the priest told her that her husband moved further upwards through purgatory. One day the woman told her priest she wasn't going to pay anymore money. The priest said, "You have to! I had a dream last night where I saw one of the angels lifting your husband by his hair out of the fires..."
The woman said, "Now I know you're lying and you're just after my money, my husband was bald!"

golach
13-Feb-12, 16:20
Of course it exists. We're living in it now, courtesy of Diablo Dave and his minions.

It will be hell, when Fat Eck and his gang set up his dictatorship!! That will be purgatory

Maccy
13-Feb-12, 17:02
All I know is that when you die you must go to heaven, because life on hearth is hell.

John Little
13-Feb-12, 20:14
I heard a funny story that supposedly is true.
When her husband died a woman was going along to her church and paying money to the priest. Each time she paid money the priest told her that her husband moved further upwards through purgatory. One day the woman told her priest she wasn't going to pay anymore money. The priest said, "You have to! I had a dream last night where I saw one of the angels lifting your husband by his hair out of the fires..."
The woman said, "Now I know you're lying and you're just after my money, my husband was bald!"

I like the one, also supposed to be true, about when Ian Paisley was preaching about Hell. He spoke of sinners going to Hell and being cast into the outer darkness where there would be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

A momentary pause and someone in the congregation called out 'Please Dr Paisley - I haven't got any teeth'

Without hesitation Paisley declared;

'Teeth will be provided!'

Angel
13-Feb-12, 22:08
Heaven or hell is where you put yourself. A lot of peeps on here say "life is hell on earth". I say "it is if you make it so". Some peeps say "heaven is here on earth" I say "it is if you make it so". I personally have been to both! It is nothing that anyone outside of me could ever understand and I would not expect them too.
Burning fires etc. or harps and angels etc. are just pictorial methods of getting the message across.
A good friend recently said "the last week my life has been hell, I lost my mobile phone"!

Angel...

catran
14-Feb-12, 00:33
It will be hell, when Fat Eck and his gang set up his dictatorship!! That will be purgatory Oh yes how true.

Shabbychic
14-Feb-12, 00:40
It will be hell, when Fat Eck and his gang set up his dictatorship!! That will be purgatory

Now that is positive thinking.:Razz

tonkatojo
14-Feb-12, 00:42
It will be hell, when Fat Eck and his gang set up his dictatorship!! That will be purgatory

Perhaps Cameron will give him a loan of his entrepreneur of the moment..

Alan16
14-Feb-12, 05:20
Who really cares? If the hell we're taught about as children really does exist then my ticket's been booked and paid for, I just hope to enjoy the trip.

secrets in symmetry
14-Feb-12, 23:42
It was raining when I was in Purgatory, and there were tour buses and traffic jams everywhere. Has anyone actually been to Hell?

John Little
14-Feb-12, 23:49
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Michigan

secrets in symmetry
15-Feb-12, 00:02
Ah, but have you been there?

I was thinking of Hell, Norway. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Norway)

I think my Hell looks more attractive than yours. :cool:

John Little
15-Feb-12, 00:03
I have not been there- but yours does look better!

But I do live very near to a reputed gateway to the underworld...

secrets in symmetry
15-Feb-12, 00:09
Cheddar Gorge?

John Little
15-Feb-12, 08:20
No - too many tourists.

The Isle of Avalon and the Tor. Quite a few underworld types to be seen in the cafes in Glastonbury High St.

secrets in symmetry
15-Feb-12, 18:06
I would have thought Glastonbury was a tourist magnet....

I hear rumours that most of the forum's aliens came to Earth via Glastonbury. I am reliably told that pumkin crashed there on her way from the stars, and that's why we all love her so much. :cool:

Errogie
15-Feb-12, 19:24
If Christians promote forgiveness and turning the other cheek why do they promote a vision of revenge in hell except as a frightener to the gullible?

John Little
15-Feb-12, 20:07
I would have thought Glastonbury was a tourist magnet....

I hear rumours that most of the forum's aliens came to Earth via Glastonbury. I am reliably told that pumkin crashed there on her way from the stars, and that's why we all love her so much. :cool:

Glastonbury has its tourists. However it is the only place where I can see a wizard and a witch walking in ankle length robes and goat head staffs, deep in conversation, and take it as part of the normal scenery. The followers of Krishna pulling their juggernaut along the high street to Chalice well seem almost tame.

But the entrance to the underworld is guarded by Arthur and his knights who will sally forth when Britain is in need...

secrets in symmetry
15-Feb-12, 20:48
Aha, I think I maybe get it now - it's the entrance to Annwn?

I know someone who would fit in very well in Glastonbury. He is one of the sanest and most sensible people I know, he just happens to think he's a toad....

John Little
15-Feb-12, 20:52
Well I'm a Dragon...

and my wife's a pig.

But yes - it is one of the gateways to Annwn.

secrets in symmetry
15-Feb-12, 23:48
Lol! Are you trying to start up a new Chinese calendar?

I wonder where the other gateways are. I bet there's one in Staxigoe. :cool:

David Banks
16-Feb-12, 02:20
HHHHellll nnno

Errogie
16-Feb-12, 14:24
I was once told that the Scandanavians used to visualise their version of Hell as a freezing cold discomfort and that the name originally came from what the Jews called their local rubbish dump where there was always a hot fire burning (a bit like Thurso's Bougswa) and where their used to be executions and other nasty goings on to make it a place of some dread.

Then as usual, along came the Christians and adapted what was already in common parlance to suit their own propoganda. So take your choice hot or cold.

shazzap
16-Feb-12, 14:36
Lol! Are you trying to start up a new Chinese calendar?

I wonder where the other gateways are. I bet there's one in Staxigoe. :cool:

How many dogs on this forum.;)


I was once told that the Scandanavians used to visualise their version of Hell as a freezing cold discomfort and that the name originally came from what the Jews called their local rubbish dump where there was always a hot fire burning (a bit like Thurso's Bougswa) and where their used to be executions and other nasty goings on to make it a place of some dread.

Then as usual, along came the Christians and adapted what was already in common parlance to suit their own propoganda. So take your choice hot or cold.

My prefered choice........... Cold. :lol:

secrets in symmetry
18-Feb-12, 22:42
How many dogs on this forum.;)I don't even know what I am, never mind what anyone else is!


My prefered choice........... Cold. :lol:A lot of people use the expression "hot as Hell", but occasionally you hear "cold as Hell". Does this mean Hell has seasons like we have on Earth?

Do they also have Global Warming?

John Little
18-Feb-12, 23:02
All my adult life I have meant to read Dante's Inferno.

Now you have just made me to resolve to read it next!

secrets in symmetry
18-Feb-12, 23:05
In the original Italian? I imagine it would lose a bit in translation.

John Little
18-Feb-12, 23:09
It probably would but I do not read Italian.

I now have a translation on my Kindle.

But it must wait until I have finished my current read which is rather engrossing.

secrets in symmetry
18-Feb-12, 23:12
I'll be nosey and ask what your current read is.

John Little
18-Feb-12, 23:15
LOL!

City of Laughter; Sex and Satire in Eighteenth Century London by Vic Gatrell.

It looks at the cartoons and satires produced by people like Gillray, Cruikshank and Hogarth.

secrets in symmetry
18-Feb-12, 23:22
I see your reasoning, but I fear for your future. Does Sex and Satire in Eighteenth Century London inevitably lead to Hell lol?

John Little
18-Feb-12, 23:28
I suspect that people may have thought so.

Certainly the members of the Hellfire club thought it.

Personally, though I have never frequented gambling hells or houses of ill repute, I have always thought that Heaven, in most of the representations of it that I have seen, is a rather boring place. All that standing round with your hands clasped together, singing praise and adoring nonsense.

There surely must be more to it than that.

Hell, by contrast seems like a rather grand party in many respects.

As a scientist you will know that Einstein thought that all matter, including us, is mutated light. If so, then questions of Heaven or Hell become irrelevant, as neither will exist...

secrets in symmetry
19-Feb-12, 00:40
As a scientist you will know that Einstein thought that all matter, including us, is mutated light. If so, then questions of Heaven or Hell become irrelevant, as neither will exist...He did? That I doubt, and I suspect you're mixing your metaphors a little too liberally.

I've never fancied Hell, but I can perhaps be turned by your vivid imagination!

John Little
19-Feb-12, 10:43
Well I am no scientist and usually garner what little shreds I glean from Radio 4 Science programmes. It is quite likely that in trying to follow discussion of the relationship between energy and matter that I got hold of the wrong end of the stick. I shall leave Einstein to you I think.

To come back on thread, it seems to me that the worst form of Hell is not a fiery lake or even devils or giant spiders.

At least then something would be happening.

Surely the worst sort of Hell is what the ancients thought of as Limbo - where there is nothing.

Can you imagine an eternity of being bored, with nothing to do and no prospect of anything to relieve the complete and utter nothingness?

That would really be Hell.

John Little
19-Feb-12, 10:49
This is the stick I got hold of the wrong end of; not my bold but I cannot switch it off. I seem to recall that the discussion was around energy released at the Big Bang 'condensing' into matter.

My bad.

"Rethinking the laws of natureEinstein's work on the Special Theory of Relativity prompted him to rethink the fundamental laws of physics. He realized that one of the long-held views of nature—that matter could not be created or destroyed—was wrong. Einstein showed instead that matter can be destroyed and converted to energy. Conversely, energy can be converted to mass."

RecQuery
19-Feb-12, 10:50
Hell... is other people.

Errogie
19-Feb-12, 23:38
Recently read about a bank robber who was shot and killed during a violent hold up and then found himself in the after life. Soon after his arrival an attendant asked him if there was anything he would like and he said well, he was a bit peckish so a good square meal promptly arrived. Pushing his luck, he then tried for and got a beautiful female companion followed by bags of money, suddenly everything was just far too easy and in a short time he became heartily bored and fed up with this effortless existence.

So fed up in fact that he said to the attendant I can't stand this sort of life any more. I think I'd be happier down in the other place what do I need to do to get a transfer? And the reply was "How do you know you're not there already!"

squidge
20-Feb-12, 00:41
I like to think that if there is a hell its for other people lol. I hope that if there is a heaven its the place and times i was the happiest in my life all over again.

joxville
20-Feb-12, 05:40
Someone I knew, who recently passed away, always said that perhaps the life we live now is actually Hell and that we go to Heaven or a better place when we die, maybe a seance is needed to find out if she was right :-)Let's all join hands :-)

regalkings
21-Feb-12, 11:57
Like it matters about heaven or hell, either way everyone is going down eventually, if there is such a place as hell then i personally think almost everyone myself included will end up there

secrets in symmetry
25-Feb-12, 14:30
Well I am no scientist and usually garner what little shreds I glean from Radio 4 Science programmes. It is quite likely that in trying to follow discussion of the relationship between energy and matter that I got hold of the wrong end of the stick. I shall leave Einstein to you I think.

To come back on thread, it seems to me that the worst form of Hell is not a fiery lake or even devils or giant spiders.

At least then something would be happening.

Surely the worst sort of Hell is what the ancients thought of as Limbo - where there is nothing.

Can you imagine an eternity of being bored, with nothing to do and no prospect of anything to relieve the complete and utter nothingness?

That would really be Hell.Don't worry about getting the wrong end of the stick. The media's science correspondents do it too. I've just read an article in the Scotsman by The Guardian's Ian Sample - he gets more things wrong than he gets right! The Scotsman's Jenny Fyall is pretty awful too - as are most environmental correspondents. I have great respect though for BBC Scotland's Ken Macdonald, he not only gets the science right, but he's much better than most at putting things into their rightful place in the big picture.

Limbo would indeed be dreadful - a world without anything, especially without science, would be a true Hell!


This is the stick I got hold of the wrong end of; not my bold but I cannot switch it off. I seem to recall that the discussion was around energy released at the Big Bang 'condensing' into matter.

My bad.

"Rethinking the laws of natureEinstein's work on the Special Theory of Relativity prompted him to rethink the fundamental laws of physics. He realized that one of the long-held views of nature—that matter could not be created or destroyed—was wrong. Einstein showed instead that matter can be destroyed and converted to energy. Conversely, energy can be converted to mass."I suppose that's right in a simple minded sort of way. Remember that Einstein was doing this in 1905 when no-one had much of a clue about the quantum revolution that was to take place over the following 20 or 30 years, so much so that what he was proposing was a big change.

John Little
25-Feb-12, 22:51
I confess to being seduced by the Inferno which I am reading; Dante is being guided by Virgil into the levels of Hell.

I did not like the black swamp where those who love money too much end up.

But then again there is a certain aptness to it...

Bankers should read the Inferno.

secrets in symmetry
26-Feb-12, 00:38
OMG, I feel partly responsible for your descent into Hell!

Then again, if you can take a few bankers with you, then I'm sure I'll be able to reach the moral high ground before I'm dragged down there....

pmcd
26-Feb-12, 18:57
Hell is being a Scottish employee of Anchor Butter. Their latest slogan (following the recent rugby ruckus) is "Anchor Butter - Suppliers of Hand Cream to the Scottish Rugby Team". What a disappointment!

JimH
26-Feb-12, 19:28
I believe in Hell - it's ASDA Norwich