View Full Version : Independent Scotland not a member of NATO
Well lets all forget about patriotism being so proud to be Scottish for once and think logically about Scottish Independence, the main thing what concerns me about independence what will the Scottish military look like, will it be a defence force similar to Ireland with the traditional policy of military neutrality or will still be part of the british military and Mr Salmond has his cake and eats it. If we go down the defence force route like Ireland route with SNP non NATO policy this would very dangerous for Scotland the reason being there's a vast North Atlantic and without the proper maritime patrolling resources, military infrastructure we'll be at the mercy of the world. Being a member of the EU if not vetoed by Spain is different kettle of fish than being a member of NATO, NATO has clout not the EU what can be easily manipulated by Russia just by the turn of the gas switch. There might be this scenario hypothetical I know where Russia invades the far north of Scotland and the EU does nothing due to the fact Russia controls the gas supply. I think devolution max is the best way to go still having Scottish soldiers etc part of the British military, still being under the umbrella of the UK defence radar system which is the best in the world. I think Scotland would be pretty screwed if England pulled all its military infrastructure back over the border.
Well lets all forget about patriotism being so proud to be Scottish for once and think logically about Scottish Independence, the main thing what concerns me about independence what will the Scottish military look like, will it be a defence force similar to Ireland or will still be part of the british military and Mr Salmond has his cake and eats it. If we go down the Ireland route pulling out of NATO this would very dangerous for Scotland the reason being there's a vast North Atlantic and without the proper maritime patrolling resources, military infrastructure we'll be at the mercy of the world. Being a member of the EU if not vetoed by Spain is different kettle of fish than being a member of NATO, NATO has clout not the EU what can be easily manipulated by Russia just by the turn of the gas switch. There might be this scenario hypothetical I know where Russia invades the far north of Scotland and the EU does nothing due to the fact Russia controls the gas supply. I think devolution max is the best way to go still having Scottish soldiers etc part of the British military, still being under the umbrella of the UK defence radar system which is the best in the world. I think Scotland would be pretty screwed if England pulled all its military infrastructure back over the border.
When was Ireland a member of Nato? And their Military Force seems pretty up to date
http://www.military.ie/home
When was Ireland a member of Nato? And their Military Force seems pretty up to date
http://www.military.ie/home
Are you a moderator by any chance or the org police?
Well lets all forget about patriotism being so proud to be Scottish for once and think logically about Scottish Independence, the main thing what concerns me about independence what will the Scottish military look like, will it be a defence force similar to Ireland with the traditional policy of military neutrality or will still be part of the british military and Mr Salmond has his cake and eats it. If we go down the defence force route like Ireland route with SNP non NATO policy this would very dangerous for Scotland the reason being there's a vast North Atlantic and without the proper maritime patrolling resources, military infrastructure we'll be at the mercy of the world. Being a member of the EU if not vetoed by Spain is different kettle of fish than being a member of NATO, NATO has clout not the EU what can be easily manipulated by Russia just by the turn of the gas switch. There might be this scenario hypothetical I know where Russia invades the far north of Scotland and the EU does nothing due to the fact Russia controls the gas supply. I think devolution max is the best way to go still having Scottish soldiers etc part of the British military, still being under the umbrella of the UK defence radar system which is the best in the world. I think Scotland would be pretty screwed if England pulled all its military infrastructure back over the border.
Cobble that one together yourself?
I think you'll find the UK does not have any 'proper maritime patrolling' resources any more.
The EU has a fine military defence force which would be more than capable of resolving any Russian advances. That is an EU defence force who's primary players are the UK & France. The UK no longer has any maritime patrol aircraft, no aircraft carriers, no aircraft to go on aircraft carriers and is currently in the process of sacking the troops coming back from the sandpit. France, well, is France.
UK Defence radar system! Is that new or top secret?? Or are you thinking of Chain Home Low or ROTOR. Russian Bear aircraft are regularly trundling through Scottish Airspace, getting as far as Stornoway before being detected. Or other Russian reconnaissance aircraft overflying Wick.
(we used to have some Nimrod spyplanes (not the ones from Kinloss) flying around up here until recently)
Oh, BTW, the Russian fleet are back in the Moray.
The only significant military infrastructure up here is the marina at Faslane, and the boats that more up there get us top table at the UN. But an SNP independent Scotland would be sending that infrastructure back to England
Russian military planes are detected well before they enter UK airspace its a game they buzz our airspace just to get the reaction time, any Russian military plane flying over Wick would be shot down due to the fact that Wick airport a reserve RAF aerodrome. UK defence radar is the most advanced radar system in the world, its that advanced it can even pick up US stealth aircraft. The maritime patrol role been taken up by converted RAF hercules transport aircraft stop gap, UAV and satellite surveillance. There's military infrasture allover Scotland not just Faslane and yes Mr Salmond thinks not having them boats would stop Scotland from being nuked, most the old soviet targets are still targeted by Russian Nuclear defence force so that's Caithness off the map even though Forss US naval base no longer exists and the nuclear establishments are slowly being decommissioned.
Are you a moderator by any chance or the org police?
Detective Inspector Golach at your service Sir!!!
Detective Inspector Golach at your service Sir!!!
LMAO, no not the polis, Executive Officer HM Customs & Excise Rtrd, and Chief Petty Officer RNR rtrd, and a general all round good egg [lol]
Russian military planes are detected well before they enter UK airspace its a game they buzz our airspace just to get the reaction time, any Russian military plane flying over Wick would be shot down due to the fact that Wick airport a reserve RAF aerodrome. UK defence radar is the most advanced radar system in the world, its that advanced it can even pick up US stealth aircraft. The maritime patrol role been taken up by converted RAF hercules transport aircraft stop gap, UAV and satellite surveillance. There's military infrasture allover Scotland not just Faslane and yes Mr Salmond thinks not having them boats would stop Scotland from being nuked, most the old soviet targets are still targeted by Russian Nuclear defence force so that's Caithness off the map even though Forss US naval base no longer exists and the nuclear establishments are slowly being decommissioned.
Oh yes, my bad, the Bears got as far as Benbecula before they woz detected. Generally speaking the Norwegians pick 'em up before we do. I would hope that radar picks the US Aurora otherwise how would it give it vectors for Machrihanish?
The Russian spyplane I saw didnea get shot down, got some nice piccies of it.
Wick a reserve RAF aerodrome :confused the cats out of the bag eh! But it's only got scud missiles for defence and they're not known for their accuracy!
The converted Herc' is not a sub hunter, in fact it's not actually converted. Just got a dinghy in the back.
billmoseley
05-Feb-12, 16:59
Russian military planes are detected well before they enter UK airspace its a game they buzz our airspace just to get the reaction time, any Russian military plane flying over Wick would be shot down due to the fact that Wick airport a reserve RAF aerodrome. UK defence radar is the most advanced radar system in the world, its that advanced it can even pick up US stealth aircraft. The maritime patrol role been taken up by converted RAF hercules transport aircraft stop gap, UAV and satellite surveillance. There's military infrasture allover Scotland not just Faslane and yes Mr Salmond thinks not having them boats would stop Scotland from being nuked, most the old soviet targets are still targeted by Russian Nuclear defence force so that's Caithness off the map even though Forss US naval base no longer exists and the nuclear establishments are slowly being decommissioned. 2 years ago i saw 2 migs 29s with russian markings fly low and fast along the north coast of scotland and i'm talking over the coast line followed by an f15 i watch for 15 mins as the twisted and turned then a tornado turned up and joined in the fun. good job it was a joint exercise cos we hadn't shot them down lolol
oldmarine
05-Feb-12, 17:54
Some good points made on this thread. Speaking on my own for my country, the USA: I believe we have been in too many wars, lost too many men & women, cost tremendous money and question as to what has been acomplished. I am a 50% disabled veteran that does get some help, but know there are many more who get nothing. I am tired of my country fighting other country's wars and when that is not enough they look for reasons to start a war. Too much is too much and I am tired.
billmoseley
05-Feb-12, 19:21
Some good points made on this thread. Speaking on my own for my country, the USA: I believe we have been in too many wars, lost too many men & women, cost tremendous money and question as to what has been acomplished. I am a 50% disabled veteran that does get some help, but know there are many more who get nothing. I am tired of my country fighting other country's wars and when that is not enough they look for reasons to start a war. Too much is too much and I am tired. well said my old friend i some times think the same but you have done your duty and should be proud of what you have done.
Another great argument for Scotland to stay in the Union! :roll:
Russian military planes are detected well before they enter UK airspace its a game they buzz our airspace just to get the reaction time, any Russian military plane flying over Wick would be shot down due to the fact that Wick airport a reserve RAF aerodrome. UK defence radar is the most advanced radar system in the world, its that advanced it can even pick up US stealth aircraft. The maritime patrol role been taken up by converted RAF hercules transport aircraft stop gap, UAV and satellite surveillance.
Osbacky, I would love to know where you are getting this information from? I think we are no longer involved in a cold war with the USSR Bloc or Russia, a couple of the old communist former "enemies" are members of NATO these days, even Poland, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Rep, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovinia, this info can be found here http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/nato_countries.htm
Ever since the end of the Cold War NATO is kind of obsolete anyway.
secretsquirrel
06-Feb-12, 11:53
the start of this thread confirms what i have allways believed about some people in caithness - "they still live in the 19th and 20th century not the 21st". Gone are the days of the so called "British Empire" for which read English. Is it not about time that the Empire gave up its last colonies and free Scotland, Wales and Northern Island!!!!!
Lets not forget the Icelandic "cod wars" when a small island was able to protect its borders.
Russia with all its mineral wealth would love to "invade" scotland???
Never mind british radar detecting so called "stealth fighter" the old Iraq radar was able to detect them.
If Scotland had its own defence force, then lets use it for defence and not for American Overseas Policy and save money ( after all where is all the money coming from for forces in Iraq and Afganistan ?- when all we here about are how the British Goverment has to make massive cuts to pay for our deficit)
As to infrastructure being removed to England lets not forget the base closures in Moray and else where!!!
As to infrastructure being removed to England lets not forget the base closures in Moray and else where!!!There's a new army base in Moray, and apparently Wick now has a Reserve Air Base.
whitechina
06-Feb-12, 21:25
Ever since the end of the Cold War NATO is kind of obsolete anyway.
I'd disagree.Even though the "cold war" is over we cannot predict what threats may arise in the future.For instance,I doubt 30 years ago we could have known that Islamic terrorism would arise.
So for now it's probably a good idea to stay in NATO,even though certain countries (France and Germany) may not be the most reliable of allies.The downside of membership is we will get dragged into further pointless wars.Look how the US government is stoking up the hysteria on Iran's alleged nuclear weapon ambitions.
Next stop Tehran!!
(A friend of mine is in the armed forces and he told me a couple of days ago that preparations are being made in the event of an intervention in Syria or an attack on Iran.And just for good measure they've been put on standby to go to the Falklands at very short notice.)
Well, that's going to push a very stretched UK Military. I wonder how there gonna make the toss between those three?
I wouldn't worry about Iran too much, best left to the Israeli's & US.
On a global scale, I don't think Kirchner would invade. I think a lot more sabre rattling, rhetoric and maybe more shipping & flight restrictions but I wouldn't expect an invasion.
John Little
06-Feb-12, 21:58
If UK PLC is to be broken up, with its assets, then that should apply to our remaining colonies too.... Scotland could have the Falklands...
Or the Falklands get Scotland!
John Little
06-Feb-12, 22:22
Now there's an idea!! :eek:
I still chuckle over a TV progamme on which a marine on leave misheard the announcement that the Argies had landed on the Falkland Islands and thought they had said landed on Scotland Islands. He couldnt understand what gripe they had against the Jocks !
Walter Ego
13-Feb-12, 17:36
the start of this thread confirms what i have allways believed about some people in caithness - "they still live in the 19th and 20th century not the 21st". Gone are the days of the so called "British Empire" for which read English. Is it not about time that the Empire gave up its last colonies and free Scotland, Wales and Northern Island!!!!!
......
'Colony'?
I think you'll fine Scotland was a bit keen to join with England after the Scottish attempt to become a world player ended in massive financial disaster with the Darien fiasco. Hardly colonialism on the part of the English. Scotland would have been bankrupt if they hadn't agreed to the Union.
If you want to promote Scots nationalism, then fine - but use facts - not fanciful 'Braveheart' rhetoric.
John Little
13-Feb-12, 20:07
Scotland a colony of England?
As I recall, it was the other way round!
King James VI of Scotland, a monarch of mature years and experience, inherited the throne of England and headed south in a great procession and with much ceremony. He took 6 weeks to reach London from Edinburgh, took a firm hold of government, arrested establishment figures he did not like, like Raleigh, and ruled as James VI and I. In 1707 his great grand-daughter, Anne Stuart, wanted to unite her two realms under one government so pushed for union.
Looked on that way it ain't Scotland getting independence - it's England.
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