View Full Version : Alex Salmond wants to form a Scottish Defence Force.
At last wee Eck has declared what it is he wants for Scotland's defence if he wins a referendum on breaking up Britain, here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9026485/Well-take-Scottish-regiments-to-form-our-new-defence-force-Salmond-says.html). It seems he is demanding that several historic units with centuries of service in the British Army should become part of a new defence force in Scotland. These include the Scots Guards, the five battalions of the Royal Regiment of Scotland and the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards.
The man’s naivety knows no bounds. These are all units of the British Army and made up of soldiers from across the UK and the Commonwealth does he really think that they’re all going to willingly transfer to his new Defence Force? What about Engineers, Mechanics, Logisticians and every other trade that makes up a military formation?
I don’t think the man has thought this through and quite frankly if I were a nationalist I’d be worried about the SNP’s naivity.
Would someone kindly inform the Buffoon of Brigadoon that he is not compiling a Tesco's shopping list, nor is he of the stature of a City asset-stripper: he is a chancer who got lucky with the lackadaisical performance of the Labour and Liberal parties, and had an enduring advantage of the Scottish everyman's gut hatred of the Tories (all of whom, as you know, were born with a siller spoon, went to Eton, snatched the bread frae oot the mooths of widders and orphans, and eat their own babbies, etc.). He is an astute politician, but his direction is either garden or primrose path to a diminished future which will have to be paid for. You don't get several battalions of soldiers, an RAF and a Navy base without having to spend money on it year on year on year. And I don't recall seeing any cost item heading "Scottish Defence Force: a revenue breakdown 2014-2024" anywhere either in the manifesto or subsequent publications or utterances.
Independence? On the hoof, through the roof, by a man aloof!
Honestly the amount of personal attacks and vitriol that emerge from these discussions, both sides are guilty but the unionists seem to do it more.
Honestly the amount of personal attacks and vitriol that emerge from these discussions, both sides are guilty but the unionists seem to do it more.
If our First Minister thinks like a buffoon, talks like a buffoon and behaves like a buffoon there’s every chance he is a buffoon!
He's got a pretty potent naval defence system just by the clyde but he wants shut of that. :confused
rob murray
20-Jan-12, 14:51
he's got a defence force ready to go...sea cadets, army cadets and air training corps ( alright the BB's, Scouts and Guides to )
he's got a defence force ready to go...sea cadets, army cadets and air training corps ( alright the BB's, Scouts and Guides to )
I can't for the life of me, imagine why a new country (Scotland) would need defence forces. Unless it is to supress the unrest of the population when they realise what they have been conned into. :lol:
'ere Duke, if the SNP get their independence where does that leave us with our little garden shed nuclear projects?
billmoseley
20-Jan-12, 19:30
what you mean none of you would join your own army to defend Scotland? shame on you all.
Who are we defending it from?
billmoseley
20-Jan-12, 19:49
Who are we defending it from?
how naive can you be?
I thought they had a 'tartan army' up here?
how naive can you be?
Naive it may be but it's a question which deserves a considered response - if only to allow further discussion on the type of defence forces Scotland might need.
billmoseley
20-Jan-12, 20:08
what about all them south of the border lololol
can i just throw in this from The Telegraph, not noted as a indpenence paper and Citigroup http://t.co/9UoVSIft. at 15.59
"We certainly do not rule out a break-up of the UK over time. ONS data suggest that an independent Scotland would have a slightly better fiscal position than the rest of the UK [assuming Scotland gets its geographic share of oil and gas receipts]. Scotland could have a viable future as an independent country, although there are a lot of questions that would have to be resolved before that happens."
In this calculation of Citigroup must also be a defence force. Of course as Scotland would not be invading other countries a smaller force than the current one is all we require
how naive can you be?Me or Wee Eck! :Razz
what about all them south of the border lolololWhat's gonna happen with all the bliddy incomers?? Ran out of the country wiv pitchforks?
billmoseley
20-Jan-12, 21:02
i am one of those incomers:Razz
i am one of those incomers:RazzMe too but don't tell anyone!
What's gonna happen with all the bliddy incomers?? Ran out of the country wiv pitchforks?
You will be welcomed with open arms just the same as you have always been!!
I know plenty of Incomers who are voting for Independence, after all, it is their country we are talking about, the country they have chosen to live in!!
You don't have to be Scottish to vote for Independence.
C3............:roll::roll:
Scottish republic
21-Jan-12, 00:56
The Brit nats here seem to think either: Scotland should use the nukes as a form of defence (pointless); or that we haven't got young men willing to join a Scottish army (clearly they have comfortable cosy lives or work for Labourite councils - same thing); or we couldn't afford one (currently £1 TRILLION of North Sea oil to be extracted plus a likely trillionS to be tapped).
The juvenile antics here shows why the SNP kicked your buttocks out of play in May 2011 and will finish you off in May 2012.
Some of you may actually become unemployed as Labour-Tory-LibDems apologise and say we can't keep you on... sorry.
Maybe then, you'll be open to joining a Scottish army?
Good luck in May
The Brit nats here seem to think either: Scotland should use the nukes as a form of defence (pointless); or that we haven't got young men willing to join a Scottish army (clearly they have comfortable cosy lives or work for Labourite councils - same thing); or we couldn't afford one (currently £1 TRILLION of North Sea oil to be extracted plus a likely trillionS to be tapped).
Just the sort of inane post we’ve come to expect from an immature nationalist. An independent Scotland will not be allowed to keep Britain's Nuclear weapon submarines. They are operated by the Royal Navy and will continue to be so.
You’re being very naive if you believe you can recruit an instant Army for Scotland’s Defence Force. Building any Defence force takes experience and time. If Scottish soldiers serving in the British Army are allowed to transfer it may be possible to form a cadre to start with but it will take ten years before we have a credible defence force. At the same time some thought would have to be given to how it is trained and equipped.
The juvenile antics here shows why the SNP kicked your buttocks out of play in May 2011 and will finish you off in May 2012.
When you’ve been round the block a few times you’ll realise that the only reason SNP won the last election was because the electorate chose to get rid of Scottish Labour and NOT because they wanted independence.
All the credible polls indicate that the majority of people in Scotland do not want independence. While the SNP will continue to hold seats in Holyrood it's because they're a reasonable alternative to Labour NOT because they offer independence.
Just the sort of inane post we’ve come to expect from an immature nationalist. .................................... When you’ve been round the block a few times you’ll realise that the only reason SNP won the last election was because the electorate chose to get rid of Scottish Labour and NOT because they wanted independence.
Not sure what age has to do with it but I must be a very immature 59 year old as I voted SNP for Independence & I am a member of the LibDEm's. We are in a union and so all assets are owned by the Union. As per International law we are entitled to 8% of the assets if we become independent. The Unionist need to wake up and look at reality at what would happen if Scotland became independent and what we would be entitled to.
I agree independence is not the most popular option currently but if Westminster keeps on interfering the increase in that option will increase faster than it already is. Also if the 2nd question is not on the ballot paper, how many who are in favour of it will vote for independence? I know quiet a few who will as they don't see Holyrood getting the increased power that people want.
This is the view of a older guy who has been round the block a few times.
Not sure what age has to do with it but I must be a very immature 59 year old as I voted SNP for Independence & I am a member of the LibDEm's. We are in a union and so all assets are owned by the Union. As per International law we are entitled to 8% of the assets if we become independent. The Unionist need to wake up and look at reality at what would happen if Scotland became independent and what we would be entitled to.
I agree independence is not the most popular option currently but if Westminster keeps on interfering the increase in that option will increase faster than it already is. Also if the 2nd question is not on the ballot paper, how many who are in favour of it will vote for independence? I know quiet a few who will as they don't see Holyrood getting the increased power that people want.
This is the view of a older guy who has been round the block a few times.
Same here Gerry, and I have been round many blocks in my time!!
As for defence, Alex is damned if he mentions it and damned if he doesn't mention it, the bloke cant win. Yes we need a small defence team just as most of the Scandinavian countries have, it doesn't have to cost a fortune to get it all started!!
Roll on Independence, I canna wait!!
C3..............:cool:
The Brit nats here seem to think either: Scotland should use the nukes as a form of defence (pointless); or that we haven't got young men willing to join a Scottish army (clearly they have comfortable cosy lives or work for Labourite councils - same thing); or we couldn't afford one (currently £1 TRILLION of North Sea oil to be extracted plus a likely trillionS to be tapped).
The juvenile antics here shows why the SNP kicked your buttocks out of play in May 2011 and will finish you off in May 2012.
Some of you may actually become unemployed as Labour-Tory-LibDems apologise and say we can't keep you on... sorry.
Maybe then, you'll be open to joining a Scottish army?
Good luck in MayJuvenile indeed.
Another new member, welcome!
As Gronnuck says you can't just cobble together a defence force, even if ALL the Scot's in the UK forces were to migrate to a new force it would take years, maybe decades to form up into serious, professional working units.
How far is the revenue off the oil going to go??
Defence is a costly business, the only way it would be of any benefit (as in jobs/economy) would be to order up a sizeable navy from clyde built ships only, but then how long does it take BAe systems to turn around a boat from scratch.
And, who are we defending ourselves from? (Wee Eck's made it clear he doesn't want to use it as an over seas intervention force)
Quite agree corrie 3, we won't be invading anyone, won't want Trident and so a much smaller force is needed. Wonder how all those countries that broke away from the USSR managed it? Also when Norway, Sweden & Finland when they broke up. That is not mention all those from the British Empire.
This is the view of a defence specialist, just to bring reality to this debate. If from Friday's BBC GMS http://t.co/DSMPxPdB
Bobinovich
21-Jan-12, 12:00
OK my take on this is that I can't see why an independent Scotland would need a full time defence force. The SNP has already said it would not want to be involved in battles on soil elsewhere, and are we really likely to come under attack & have to defend ourselves from anyone, if so from who? However, rather than have a defence force sitting there doing very little other than constant training & the like, we could put the manpower to better use with more full-time police, who could go off in groups for specialist training - weapons, heavy machines, etc. - now & then to be called on for a military defence role in the event that Scotland's borders are threatened? Just a thought...
roadbowler
21-Jan-12, 12:08
I agree Corrie, we need a small but, well trained defence force who instead of traversing the planet reinforcing regime change, oil and other economic interests, and protecting the last gasps of britains imperialist past concentrate on defence and peace not aggression. As this force will not be very busy or spending stupid amounts of money on that rubbish anymore. Maybe they could traverse the planet "killing with kindness" acting as a peaceful aid force in times of need and humanitarian crisis and also serving domestically to improve & help communities and the environment at home? And Faslane, well, if they want Scotland to pay to move it to England, they should tell them they will only offer to pay to dismantle and decommission the entire base as they do not support use of nuclear weapons as a deterrent or otherwise. Just a thought.
Not sure what age has to do with it but I must be a very immature 59 year old as I voted SNP for Independence & I am a member of the LibDEm's.
Within the context of Scottish republic’s post I used the term ‘immature’ because his argument was not fully developed or thought through.
We are in a union and so all assets are owned by the Union. As per International law we are entitled to 8% of the assets if we become independent. The Unionist need to wake up and look at reality at what would happen if Scotland became independent and what we would be entitled to.
International law does not lay down any hard and fast rules regarding sharing assets and liabilities after states break up. No doubt a newly independent Scottish government will be able to hire international lawyers to argue their case. But IMO they won’t achieve very much other than to provide the language for the negotiations.
I agree independence is not the most popular option currently but if Westminster keeps on interfering the increase in that option will increase faster than it already is. Also if the 2nd question is not on the ballot paper, how many who are in favour of it will vote for independence? I know quiet a few who will as they don't see Holyrood getting the increased power that people want.
Westminster is the legitimate government of the UK and has every right to have it’s say. The question of additional powers can come later. Let’s deal with the independence question first.
This is the view of a older guy who has been round the block a few times.
OK - so back to the original point - you might agree than that creating a Defence Force in the aftermath of Scottish Independence is going to need more thought than Wee Eck has shown thus far.
'On inspection, there is little or no threat of direct invasion of [Scotland] by any nation. Commitment to a large standing army, a navy of large warships around our coastline, squadrons of fighter planes and a cripplingly expensive missile defence system is therefore unnecessary. Any threat of invasion that might arise in the future is so remote that realignment of the [Scottish] military and defence preparations would be possible long before any invasion occurred.
A residual role for military personnel would exist in detection and apprehension of criminals attempting to by-pass customs and immigration. Other duties would include policing fishing quotas, piracy and oceanic environmental regulations.'
Nah it's OK it ain't my ideas, it's the Green Party..Word for word, I promise you - (exchanged UK for Scottish)..
I think using the Royal Scots to chase naughty boys, would not go down very well though!:lol:
billmoseley
21-Jan-12, 22:24
we could always join N A T O then we can sleep safely in our beds
we could always join N A T O then we can sleep safely in our beds
As you haven't attached a smiley (or something similar) to your post, I'm tempted to think you are being serious. If so, I think NATO would reasonably expect some contribution in the way of troops and commitment from Scotland. The SNP have a long way to go before they can be taken seriously in this arena.
I hope we never have a Black Watch contingent in Eck's private army, look back at their history, they were raised to put down the dissident Highlanders after the 1715 Jacobite Uprising. And history also shows the a regiment of Caithness volunteers, were used to put down the Covenanters between 1666 and 1680, and they were particularly ruthless.
secrets in symmetry
21-Jan-12, 23:36
The Brit nats here seem to think either: Scotland should use the nukes as a form of defence (pointless); or that we haven't got young men willing to join a Scottish army (clearly they have comfortable cosy lives or work for Labourite councils - same thing); or we couldn't afford one (currently £1 TRILLION of North Sea oil to be extracted plus a likely trillionS to be tapped).
The juvenile antics here shows why the SNP kicked your buttocks out of play in May 2011 and will finish you off in May 2012.
Some of you may actually become unemployed as Labour-Tory-LibDems apologise and say we can't keep you on... sorry.
Maybe then, you'll be open to joining a Scottish army?
Good luck in MayWelcome to the forum Wee Fat Eck!
You've raised an important question here....
Is the populist nationalist nonsense you speak in Holyrood better or worse than the populist nationalist nonsense you type in this forum?
It's a close call. :cool:
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