View Full Version : Are we doing ourselves any favours?
Do we really want to save everone on the planet. Feed them, cure them, save them etc...
As a person my answer would be yes... but...
As part of the human species are we going to eventually run out of food or materials etc...
I'm just not sure about the bigger picture... and yes, I know we are o.k. for now and so are our children but with the ever expanding population of planet earth... for how long?
What do you think the answer is, if there is one!
Angel...
Well, there lies a very good question.
I think it's an option: save the planet OR save the human race.
Save the planet and we need to sacrifice ourselves, carry on with the human race breeding, expanding and abusing the planet as we are .......well. Dinosaurs we will be!
Well, there lies a very good question.
I think it's an option: save the planet OR save the human race.
Save the planet and we need to sacrifice ourselves, carry on with the human race breeding, expanding and abusing the planet as we are .......well. Dinosaurs we will be!
Well said Phill; we humans are the very species ruining the planet. Give the planet back to nature I say....!
Sgitheanach
20-Jan-12, 00:17
50years ago more people died in famines and natural disasters than now but it is tv that makes people take note of it whare as 50years ago it mostly went un heard and un seen but now it is on tv all the time Are we saving the planet or are we drowning it with humans
are we saving the planet or are we drowning it with humans
bingo!
....
I say we respect the planet. We wouldn't go into anybody's house & drop litter. So why do it outside? We're all so self obsessed, always trying to be healthy by exercising & eating well, but we pollute the planet with smog & other things. We are totally contradicting every single action we make towards humans-earth.
The fact is, the Sun is getting bigger, & earth will eventually get sucked into the Sun. So we could protect the earth, look after her, bow down to her every needs, but we're fighting a losing battle, earth WILL die. Everything is born, lives then dies. It's nature.
If we are to survive as a race, we need to act now & concentrate on getting out of this solar system & find an appropriate planet for us to move in to. I'm not talking about Mars, but much further afield. This type of talk is very real, & has been spoken of for a number a years, & we need to act.
Otherwise, we'll become extinct, it's as simple as that. I don't think we're that significant anyway. We destroy, corrupt, harm, we're selfish, the human race is a disgusting race.
Bobinovich
20-Jan-12, 01:41
It's generally agreed that it will be several billion years before the Sun expands to that extent, and estimates of 100 million years before Earth becomes uninhabitable. Looking at what man has done with regards to technology in just the last 100 years, projecting that rate of change I personally don't see it being more than a few hundred years tops before space travel is commonplace and man starts exploring the universe, and so on.
However I do think there are many more unknowns to this. The human race will need to work together, and the whole mentality of capitalism / consumerism will have to change drastically from the needs of the individual to the needs of the many...yeah I know it's a Star Trek line but I help but think there is some logic in that literary society...
teddybear1873
20-Jan-12, 01:48
Human Race ends 21st Dec 2012. I have cancelled my Xmas clubby.
It's generally agreed that it will be several billion years before the Sun expands to that extent, and estimates of 100 million years before Earth becomes uninhabitable. Looking at what man has done with regards to technology in just the last 100 years, projecting that rate of change I personally don't see it being more than a few hundred years tops before space travel is commonplace and man starts exploring the universe, and so on.
However I do think there are many more unknowns to this. The human race will need to work together, and the whole mentality of capitalism / consumerism will have to change drastically from the needs of the individual to the needs of the many...yeah I know it's a Star Trek line but I help but think there is some logic in that literary society...
This for me is bang on. 100 millions years or not though, this will fly in in terms of how long we've already been here. & yes, technology has really become so advanced that I personally find it rather frightening. It came from nowhere really (where I believe it came from is irrelevant). We need to act fast & we need to find a way to explore the cosmos. I truly believe this is what NASA's #1 objective has been since they started, they're (along with other countries) finding our way out.
You're last paragraph hit the nail on the head for me. We need to work together productively in order to achieve this. We don't know what we're entering into in the universe (apparently). In the society we're living, only a few people at the top are benefiting, oil tycoons, bankers, media moguls & so on. This HAS TO CHANGE! We are little puppets on strings running along to their rules & this will not get us anywhere at all.
The Human Race need to work together as a team if we want to survive, we're all in this together.
John Little
20-Jan-12, 10:00
Not if you are religious.
Or certain types of religious.
Many of our problems are caused by the simple fact that there are millions upon millions of people who believe that birth control is against God because they have been brought up to believe so.
It often strikes me as grand irony that famine stalks parts of Africa and Asia constantly, charities and agencies work ceaselessly to save the children caught up in these tragedies, yet the population continues to soar.
Perhaps millions of lives could be saved and the strain on the planet lessened significantly if someone could persuade the Pope to change his mind...
weezer 316
20-Jan-12, 11:49
I think some seem to forget that we are dependent on the earth. It can support what it can support. At some point the breaking point will be reached and we will ultimately destroy ourselves.....we simply arent capable of destroying this planet, only ruining it for our habitation.
As for a figure we can support, I think that was reached maybe a decade or two ago. We will end up with a runaway effect I think eventually.
Good luck in getting to people to be responsible and have less children. That's one of the major problems right now too many people.
Many of our problems are caused by the simple fact that there are millions upon millions of people who believe that birth control is against God because they have been brought up to believe so.
Religion is what destroyed the human race in the first place. Being made to believe in a "God" & that we have to live by his "rules" or else we're all going to "hell". What a load of childish sharn. You know, they thought they found Noah's Ark at the top of a mountain? [disgust]
China have a law where each family is limited to the number of children they may have called the One - Child Policy. After 5years, they may apply to have another, but the Chinese Government claim that since they introduced this law in 1978, they've prevented 400 million births from happening.
Imagine how the population would drop if all the worlds Governments joined forces & made this law!
There wouldn't be need for so many cows to feed humans, or chickens for that matter. Also, the production of cars could stop! There are more than enough vehicles to do us all.
Get the population back down to 1 billion, even that's too many, but we could make it manageable. After all, we can't manage our 7 billion population now can we?
billmoseley
20-Jan-12, 19:36
hopefully mother nature will teach us a lesson and wipe us all out because thats what we deserve in the long run
hopefully mother nature will teach us a lesson and wipe us all out because thats what we deserve in the long run
Half of me is inclined to agree with this. The other half of me says that it's in our nature to survive. We are survivors, it's in our nature to keep moving forward. To keep surviving.
I actually think that civilisation, technology, medicine etc will be our downfall as a species and for other species. We have no predators, we keep a false environment to keep us cosy, we eat unhealthily, we keep people alive to breed who would otherwise had died long before they could have kids. We will destroy the habitats and resources to make homes for our burgeoning population. The end of the human race is not going to be pretty.
We have no predators
We most certainly do, the most dangerous predator of all, us. Humans are the most deadly predator ever.
Technology & medicine are our only hope. The only way it will be our downfall is if somebody claims to "own" it.
I remember when I was a child always been encouraged to share my toys. At school I was encouraged to share my crisps. Always encouraged to get all the other kids to play football. We were always encouraged to be at one with one another.
We really could learn a lot from "kids".
I say we respect the planet. We wouldn't go into anybody's house & drop litter. So why do it outside? We're all so self obsessed, always trying to be healthy by exercising & eating well, but we pollute the planet with smog & other things. We are totally contradicting every single action we make towards humans-earth.
The fact is, the Sun is getting bigger, & earth will eventually get sucked into the Sun. So we could protect the earth, look after her, bow down to her every needs, but we're fighting a losing battle, earth WILL die. Everything is born, lives then dies. It's nature.
If we are to survive as a race, we need to act now & concentrate on getting out of this solar system & find an appropriate planet for us to move in to. I'm not talking about Mars, but much further afield. This type of talk is very real, & has been spoken of for a number a years, & we need to act.
Otherwise, we'll become extinct, it's as simple as that. I don't think we're that significant anyway. We destroy, corrupt, harm, we're selfish, the human race is a disgusting race.
Where do I sign up? I'd like to be a Space Cadet too.
Where do I sign up? I'd like to be a Space Cadet too.
We'll hijack one of Richard Branson's space flights & get out of here, ducati.
In all seriousness though, is there another way? Are we doing ourselves any favours?
IMO, I think not.
secrets in symmetry
21-Jan-12, 00:33
I actually think that civilisation, technology, medicine etc will be our downfall as a species and for other species. We have no predators, we keep a false environment to keep us cosy, we eat unhealthily, we keep people alive to breed who would otherwise had died long before they could have kids. We will destroy the habitats and resources to make homes for our burgeoning population. The end of the human race is not going to be pretty.Technology is already our downfall in the sense that it's heating up the planet, but it can be (and will probably need to be) our saviour.
billy5000
21-Jan-12, 01:22
I know it sounds harsh! but my attentions are firmly concentrated to my family! rather than saving some tribe in the nambia or such like!
we do our bit for recycling and we do our best to fix/or remodel rather than throw away, and also we work hard to save electricity etc .
we do what we can with what we can! i.e i cannot afford to buy the latest hybred car or install solar panels/wind turbines.
we shop at charity shops(slowly limiting due to prices )and we grow as much veg and have chickens for eggs and recycle rain water to feed them, but with the limited money with all the tax in this country we can only do what we can!
its the goverments green taxes that will drive us slowly into further poverty, and this is taxes for things that should make it cheaper in the long run! but as its obvious we will never see any reductions in our bills despite paying for technology that is supposed to help us be green and reduce our bills, but instead its lining the fatcats pockets even more than before!(not like they are hard up)
so if you think im selfish for not giving £2 a month to some country that we already give billions too and thier goverments sqaunder it as bad as our own! and their own people suffer like ours(not as bad granted)but these begging adverts will always be ignored as my family come first!(and trust me its hard enough putting food on the table as it is )
all the while the goverment(london)sit at resturants eating lobster and drinking champers getting paid to look for more ways to screw us into the gutter even further!
and things like the rspca and other agencys that are given squat(public funded) when africa gets free water/pumps/clothes/etc
its time our govements stopped trying to look like big men (who can send the most competition)and started looking at our own people!
close the borders and get through the huge list of unfiled deportation orders and send them back home(yep thier home)
im all for helping! but its not helping anymore! its an obvious strangling of our limited economy, but you wouldnt think we are in dire straights considering the amount of aid we waste on countrys that are laughing at us because we are dumb enough to think we have a reputation!
yeah a reputation of being a pushover!with our human rights and easy border control!
rant over:)arghhh:)
money is important but its also a curse and controls everything and aslong as we are unable to work together due to money then we are lost as its more important to have the lastest ipod/etc or send wasted money to countrys that afew million condoms would be better assigned!
Good for you billy5000 for getting your rant out there, & I feel for you. I know times are tough, especially when there's a family to support, but I think you're missing the point here.
I don't have a garden, but if I did, no matter how wealthy I was, I'd be growing fruit & veg & raising hens for their eggs too. The simple life is pure, bliss & rewarding.
Anyway, the OP was stating that if we live in our current fashion, then everything will run out, over the long run ofcourse. So what are we to do as a race to survive?
billy5000
21-Jan-12, 01:55
assign a more level headed goverments! and start to cull the over production of goods that dont directly help us live from day to day!
and with places like china/us/etc ,that dont take pollution as seriously as our goverment trys to make out they do ,then we are wasting our time! even if its a start its still the tip of the ice burge!
we need money to work together! and as half the worlds countrys are in poverty then we can never push towards a good result without all pushing at the same time! and the same amount!
if we did we would find that we wouldnt have to take such drastic measures with spending on green machines and taxes as we could reduce not only pollution but poverty at the same time(maybe longer timespan ) but aslong as its got a price tag its not going to happen, and the worst polluters are the very factorys that produce our uneeded home comforts we can easily live without!
its a hard uturn but we once survived on much less before and were fairly happy! and its really down to sacrifice and as far as i can see if one person is seen to ignore these cuts(goverments)then it makes it hard to follow suit or follow by example
think how much food goes to waste every day like fish(the very fish that is there to stock shelves but kill our food supply very fast)its not about what we need anymore its about having it there for us to grab if we feel like it (convieniance foods)nothings a task anymore and where once a fishermen was respected and thanked for bringing in the nights meal its now about scooping as many up as possible for a measly pay!and no warm feeling!
we need to go back to basics and fine tune what we really need or we will end up having to look for another planet to abuse!when we could easily learn from our mistakes now!
alistair harper
21-Jan-12, 08:08
money is the problem but its also a curse and controls everything and as long as we are unable to work together due to money then we are lost, as its more important to have the lastest plasma, some people cant afford a tv and i dont mean in other country,s (the mentality is I have to have bigger and better than you. Look at the super market food that doesnt get sold just gets thrown out. boats have to get rid of fish if they have caught too much. I remember going down to the fish mart in wick and the fisherman would happily give you a couple of fish to take home.now its ££££££££££££££££££££.
"Anyway, the OP was stating that if we live in our current fashion, then everything will run out, over the long run ofcourse. So what are we to do as a race to survive?"
Do we deserve to survive? Aren't we the ones who are mucking it up......... greed and power are so destructive.....
There are far too many people and, while I don't like the Chinese policy because it has produced more boys than girls and that's leading to all kinds of problems, I'm sure the world would be a much better place if we could somehow change the attitude to having children. There seem to have been far too many murders of children in this country recently so presumably many are being born to people who can't or won't care for them. There are too many children in care or on the streets. People wanting to adopt have to jump through all kinds of hoops but it seems anyone can conceive, whether they're able to care for or even want the results. Children suffering and dying all over the world due to poverty, famine etc. Shouldn't the decision to have children only be made after careful thought and planning?
roadbowler
21-Jan-12, 14:02
fantastic thread angel and everyone has some great replies all of which I could respond too but, I'd be here all afternoon! Population has been made the enemy lately amidst the thrust of the green agenda sweeping the western world. Firstly, I find a lot of logic in the demographic transition theory. There is a lot in there that more or less mirrors what is going on in the world.Surely, people realise that birth rates and fertility rates at least in western countries is plummeting. That is a fact and not only this but, there are more babies being born with low weight etc and more women having trouble birthing. i've read that nearly a quarter of American births last year were by caesarian.Reminds me of any plant that is being starved of its necessities, water, light, food or overcrowding/competition. It starts to shrivel up, look peeky, develop disease. What does it do then? it bolts of course! Flowers then sets seed prematurely then dies. But, that is its sole purpose, reproduction and proliferation. Survival by any means possible. Any seed collector will know a lot of the seeds from this poor plant will produce weaker and smaller plants and a lot less than normal of the seeds will even be viable. Humans aren't any different.This is what I see happening to humans now. But, oh so prematurely. Westerners (largely) are gluttons. We continue to hog the resources and live in such unsustainable ways each person needs 100x more (conservative estimate here) resources, energy, materials to live in a "modern" way rather than how we were intended with the bare necessities, water, food, clothes, shelter and community. Our "modern" way of life is fast and frustrating and stressful. Eat healthy, attempt to live healthy all you want but, if you are stressed you are going to end up like our plant up there. Stress is the biggest breeder of disease there is. Everyone I know bar a select few live in constant stress. Busy keeping up wi the Jones', busy working jobs they hate to amass a load of rubbish they don't need. My theory is humans need to get beyond this silly rat race and start living. Make life your work and you will be happy at it and if we did this folk would be less stressed and there would be plenty of room for all of us. As mentioned above but, with a different twist, the real irony is there are folk starving to death in this world in this day and age and the "haves" instead of helping the "havenots" are busy with greedy murder and power missions in far flung places to acquire more of the rubbish they don't need and will only cause us more stress and waste. Our own worst enemy? Not a very intelligent lot, our lot, really, are we? We "earn money" to buy food we could grow ourselves sometimes from countries that border countries in middle of a famine, run refrigerators on leccy to cool our food all year when it the same temperature outside for half the year, we throw away tons of wool in this country every year and buy cheap, poor quality clothing from china, we hire people to do our graft then go to the "gym" to exercise etc. Lol Hilarious when you think about some of the things humans get up too. So, aye, I'm all for back pedalling, not for full steam ahead for a quicker demise.
Do we deserve to survive? Aren't we the ones who are mucking it up......... greed and power are so destructive.....
Yes we deserve to survive, not everybody is greedy & on a power trip, & not all of us humans are mucking it up. There's many a human that wishes to live a quiet, peaceful, harmonius life. & to learn & to travel to far out places. Destruction really is the last thing on many minds. We've given so much in so many different walks of life, & we've much more to give, too. We're creative beings, so lets create together.
@badger - I personally have mixed feelings about China's One Child policy, part of me feels that it's another "rule" to the law book. It does go against human rights, our freedom as it were. But on the other hand, I don't see any other choice. It's the only way to reduce the population in humans & animals. Cows may eat green but they certainly don't produce green. They pollute as much as cars.
@badger - I personally have mixed feelings about China's One Child policy, part of me feels that it's another "rule" to the law book. It does go against human rights, our freedom as it were. But on the other hand, I don't see any other choice. It's the only way to reduce the population in humans & animals. Cows may eat green but they certainly don't produce green. They pollute as much as cars.
Think you've hit the nail on the head there. We hear so much talk of rights these days but too little about responsibilities.
Hmm..wonder where the problem lies?http://www.coolgeography.co.uk/GCSE/AQA/Population/Population%20Change/Population%20Growth.htm
Cows may eat green but they certainly don't produce green. They pollute as much as cars.
That probably depends on what info you want to initially take if you wanted to make a calculation. Estimates vary about how much methane that they produce from 100l to 500l.
At the point of exit, the methane has a warming potential of the equivalent of 600kg to 3000kg of CO2. So yes it could be argued that cows pollute as much as cars but then methane naturally decomposes in the atmosphere into CO2 over time which has a much lower GWP. But even then the GWP of methane is hugely disputed from 8 to 23ish
So depending on your views, it depends.:D
Tugmistress
21-Jan-12, 22:28
Do we really want to save everone on the planet. Feed them, cure them, save them etc...
As a person my answer would be yes... but...
As part of the human species are we going to eventually run out of food or materials etc...
I'm just not sure about the bigger picture... and yes, I know we are o.k. for now and so are our children but with the ever expanding population of planet earth... for how long?
What do you think the answer is, if there is one!
Angel...
ok, i doubt this will be a popular answer but here goes,
go back to survival of the fittest, get rid of the nanny state and let each nation sort itself out
billmoseley
21-Jan-12, 22:36
ok, i doubt this will be a popular answer but here goes,
go back to survival of the fittest, get rid of the nanny state and let each nation sort itself out
fantastic answer . it is probably what it will come down to in the end.
That probably depends on what info you want to initially take if you wanted to make a calculation. Estimates vary about how much methane that they produce from 100l to 500l.
At the point of exit, the methane has a warming potential of the equivalent of 600kg to 3000kg of CO2. So yes it could be argued that cows pollute as much as cars but then methane naturally decomposes in the atmosphere into CO2 over time which has a much lower GWP. But even then the GWP of methane is hugely disputed from 8 to 23ish
So depending on your views, it depends.
It took you this to say, yes cows pollute the atmosphere :lol:
I'd like to think we're in agreement about something though, Rheghead, between animals, people & vehicles, there's far too many. If these numbers were reduced, & I mean seriously slashed (there's 7 billion people, approx 1.3 billion cows & close to 1 billion vehicles on the planet :eek:) the world would be a far cleaner place.
Did you watch Ch.4 tonight? 4thought tv (a 5min presentation programme) had a chinese woman discussing the one child policy. She (& according to her, most people she knew) said that they can't picture another way of life. They KNOW it's the ONLY solution.
ok, i doubt this will be a popular answer but here goes,
go back to survival of the fittest, get rid of the nanny state and let each nation sort itself out
We are humans, not animals, if we don't come together as one we're knackered.
fantastic answer . it is probably what it will come down to in the end.
I want the human race to survive, so I hope that it doesn't come down to that.
It took you this to say, yes cows pollute the atmosphere :lol:.
No worries, yes I know, it's very anally retentive of me with the sums an'all, I've always had a fascination with it, modern medical terms have a fancy word and a lovely scale for it but I just get on with it.
ok, i doubt this will be a popular answer but here goes,
go back to survival of the fittest, get rid of the nanny state and let each nation sort itself out
Yeah not popular with perhaps for different reasons than you anticipated. I'm not a big fan of any nanny, least that of the state or the fact that to survive you need to be fit, you can be clever or sexually attractive to survive, lets not forget about those individuals.
I really disagree with your last bit about letting each nation sorting itself out though. It does seem to promote nationalism as the answer, an 'I'm better than any other nation attitude'. Not good really. I much prefer a system that allows each nation to flourish within certain parameters that meets common decency and morals. Just like the Good Samaritan helped at times of trouble then sometimes it needs another nation or group of nations acting under a banner of moral good and decency to intervine. Under nationalism, one nation lacks empathy towards another, it only seeks towards self promotion which isn't good for global harmony.
ok, i doubt this will be a popular answer but here goes,
go back to survival of the fittest, get rid of the nanny state and let each nation sort itself out
Tuggs, your Nanny keeps going walkabout, whats that going to do to the world economy [lol]
I reckon the end will start once it becomes common knowledge we've past peak oil. I think the early Mad Max films may actually be a glimpse of the future.
secrets in symmetry
22-Jan-12, 01:40
ok, i doubt this will be a popular answer but here goes,
go back to survival of the fittest, get rid of the nanny state and let each nation sort itself outI think you're wrong - it will be a popular proposal. Turkeys like nothing better than voting for an early Christmas....
billy5000
23-Jan-12, 02:04
This thread had me thinking the other day about what humans in the year 2012 could manage if we all had to go back to wearing animal skins and wearing animal skin shoes!
could we still manage to hunt/survive the scottish winters/manage without healthcare (being with child:)etc?
i know its not ever going to be that bad! but it had me thinking and to be honest we managed it once(albiet the climate was warmer)and there are more people than those people back then could have ever imagined!
also clean water would be a problem as most of us would die out from bacteria and sickness..
It reminds me of when my dad went out one day when i was just a child and started to dig a fallout bunker! (cold war threats etc)and he did really well! and this bunker went down about 20ft or more and after the main shaft he then dug a tunnel and 4 or 6 rooms(it was a long time ago so it could have been just 4)these rooms were either side of the tunnel and each room was pretty big (from the eyes of a child) and he even had an air source tube running into it!!
but thinking about it now it was pretty much a mass grave! because if a nuclear attack had happened we would have all died down there anyway! either from starvation or fallout radiation, so it was pretty useless really ! living after a massive fallout would be as near to hell as anyone would want to get!
sorry i ranted again:)
either way we might not have to worry about the long term when iran build enough nukes and decide to play "lets teach those western scum a lesson"
if you put being green over iran im more concerned about what iran will do as its not the most stable of regions and never will be so lets hope they stick to nuclear power plants and stick any icbms firmly away as a last resort defence like most of the super power nations!
This thread had me thinking the other day about what humans in the year 2012 could manage if we all had to go back to wearing animal skins and wearing animal skin shoes!
could we still manage to hunt/survive the scottish winters/manage without healthcare (being with child:)etc?
i know its not ever going to be that bad! but it had me thinking and to be honest we managed it once(albiet the climate was warmer)and there are more people than those people back then could have ever imagined!
also clean water would be a problem as most of us would die out from bacteria and sickness..
It reminds me of when my dad went out one day when i was just a child and started to dig a fallout bunker! (cold war threats etc)and he did really well! and this bunker went down about 20ft or more and after the main shaft he then dug a tunnel and 4 or 6 rooms(it was a long time ago so it could have been just 4)these rooms were either side of the tunnel and each room was pretty big (from the eyes of a child) and he even had an air source tube running into it!!
but thinking about it now it was pretty much a mass grave! because if a nuclear attack had happened we would have all died down there anyway! either from starvation or fallout radiation, so it was pretty useless really ! living after a massive fallout would be as near to hell as anyone would want to get!
sorry i ranted again:)
either way we might not have to worry about the long term when iran build enough nukes and decide to play "lets teach those western scum a lesson"
if you put being green over iran im more concerned about what iran will do as its not the most stable of regions and never will be so lets hope they stick to nuclear power plants and stick any icbms firmly away as a last resort defence like most of the super power nations!
Yeah plus we'd have to deal with Radscorpians, Super Mutants and Feral Ghouls. Guess I should start collecting bottle caps and pilot lights.
Super MutantsKewwwwlll!!!!! :evil
Specifically these (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Super_mutant)
I'm sure this one posts on the .org now and again:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060613003039/fallout/images/a/af/Tariqmutant1.jpg
So we have to let the children starve and stop dishing out medicine and clean water etc to ensure some of us (most likely the wealthy) will have all they need to survive... just think, is we stop giving to all these charities we might become well off ourselves and increase our chance of survival... now there's a point!
Angel...
John Little
23-Jan-12, 16:44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmEosykOesE
Until we live in a Post_scarcity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_scarcity) society (even then space may become an issue) then the fact remains that there are too many people alive today. We need to control birth rates better and the fact remains that most of this population comes from less developed countries, who despite being in dire situations continue to have children and thus make their situations worse. There I've said.
Until we live in a Post_scarcity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_scarcity) society (even then space may become an issue) then the fact remains that there are too many people alive today. We need to control birth rates better and the fact remains that most of this population comes from less developed countries, who despite being in dire situations continue to have children and thus make their situations worse. There I've said.
I agree with you entirely, there are far too many people/animals/vehicles/buildings, there's far too much of everything.
But in relation to reducing birth rates, I can't see any other solution than adopting China's One Child Policy, or at least following something very similar.
Is there, another solution?
Is there, another solution?
Get rid of the alleged aliens and extra terrestrials [lol]
Get rid of the alleged aliens and extra terrestrials [lol]
Yes they're always up to no good and hovering around street corners.
Get rid of the alleged aliens and extra terrestrials [lol]
It must be hard living life in a narrow lane, it must be hard living in a small box, where you can't stand or lie down.
What's your take to reduce the population, golach?
I agree with you entirely, there are far too many people/animals/vehicles/buildings, there's far too much of everything.
But in relation to reducing birth rates, I can't see any other solution than adopting China's One Child Policy, or at least following something very similar.
Is there, another solution?
Assuming a limit on the amount of children a couple can have is unworkable. Then what we need do is to stop incentivising and encouraging people to have children, we need to get rid of this untrue rose-tinted notion of a traditional family. We also need to stop romanticising children as much as we do.
In addition to that and assuming some people just won't take personal responsibility we need to develop a long term contraceptive (3-6 months if not more). Make it so that having children becomes a conscious choice. The elimination of religion would help with this but that's not going to happen.
Beyond that I don't know. Perhaps more efficient use of existing space and resources, better public transport etc.
Assuming a limit on the amount of children a couple can have is unworkable.
Make it so that having children becomes a conscious choice.
The elimination of religion would help with this but that's not going to happen.
Beyond that I don't know. Perhaps more efficient use of existing space and resources, better public transport etc.
A limit on children is workable, the Chinese have proved this. Yes, there are families that go on to have more than one child, but not many. Plus they have to apply for it, & also they have to wait for a minimum of 5 years between each child. But they state that they've prevented 400 million birth's from happening in the space of 32 years. That's figures we should take seriously.
Making it so that having children becomes a concious choice is, IMO, achievable, but in this society next to impossible. How can we get through to billions of people & convince them that you have to think about your decision? Sex is everywhere, from film & television to music & online sources, & society doesn't look like it will change anytime soon, I feel this is going to be difficult to achieve.
It depends what religion you speak of, RecQuery.
I agree with your last sentence entirely, a more efficient use of resources is essential. Especially oil, we live our lives by it.
Yes they're always up to no good and hovering around street corners.
No Rheg, thats spotty teenagers, aliens have 3 legs and heads like pumpkins
aliens have 3 legs and heads like pumpkins
Mrs. Golach?
It must be hard living life in a narrow lane, it must be hard living in a small box, where you can't stand or lie down.
What's your take to reduce the population, golach?
Its a personal choice, me? I had a vasectomy in 1972, that was my answer. So I cannot be blamed for the populaton explosion.
Its a personal choice, me? I had a vasectomy in 1972, that was my answer. So I cannot be blamed for the populaton explosion.
I never blamed you for the population explosion.
A vasectomy does sound like a good idea. Once a couple produce a child, the man has to get a vasectomy.
Easy, quick, straight forward & to the point.
I never blamed you for the population explosion.
A vasectomy does sound like a good idea. Once a couple produce a child, the man has to get a vasectomy.
Easy, quick, straight forward & to the point.
I have done some thing about the population explosion, but have you? And why always does it have to be the males who get the "snip"?, Females can be easily sterilised too. [disgust]
I have done some thing about the population explosion, but have you? And why always does it have to be the males who get the "snip"?, Females can be easily sterilised too. [disgust]
I don't need to talk about personal life with you, golach. You dirty old man! However, I think it's pretty obvious by the way I'm speaking that I do not wish the population to get any bigger, so I take precautions that I need to take.
Females can get sterilised yes, but men are the ones that spread the seed in the first place. Cut it off at the source.
I'm sure this one posts on the .org now and again:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060613003039/fallout/images/a/af/Tariqmutant1.jpg Whats his user name.
So we agree that we are not doing ourselves any favors, now how do we deal with saying no to all these charities that are doing such excellent work feeding the poor, distributing medicines, building wells etc... how do we say no... we can't, well I can't...
Do we agree with the strongest should survive, do we agree with it because 'we're o.k. jack' kind of attitude...
What is the answer...
Angel...
So we agree that we are not doing ourselves any favors, now how do we deal with saying no to all these charities that are doing such excellent work feeding the poor, distributing medicines, building wells etc... how do we say no... we can't, well I can't...
Do we agree with the strongest should survive, do we agree with it because 'we're o.k. jack' kind of attitude...
What is the answer...
Angel...
The only answer is to change society as we know it. We have to work together as one unit. We have to retire money/banking altogether. We have to start repsecting each other, earth & start looking towards the future. What does it hold? How can we keep our race surviving? Because that's the big one, survival. We are survivors & it's in our nature to survive. This "every man for himself" attitude is nonsense. If we did this then we'd most certainly die out, become extinct.
The Venus Project has the right idea;
http://www.thevenusproject.com/
T (http://www.thevenusproject.com/)echnology should be available to all, not just those who can afford it. Nobody owns that piece of land, so why should I give you £60, 000 so I can own it? & then why do I have to pay electric, mortgage, tv licence etc.? Everything is about profit, & the sooner we can eliminate money the sooner we can start a harmonius relationship with each other.
What about oil? To say that Mr Esso or Mr BP owns it is ludicrious. How can they claim to own the oil? Anyway I hope you see my point here.
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