View Full Version : The Vote - Surely A Mistake?
I note in today's "Press and Journal", in an item from the "Debate of 1000 Days", that "Expatriates will miss out on vote over independence".
Curious. One would have thought that ALL Scots-born expatriates would have rallied to the cause of Scottish independence, and provided an easy stream of votes for the establishment of an independent and sovereign state.
But no. According to the P&J, "The Scottish Government has rejected calls to extend the vote on independence to expatriates. It followed the proposal by a Labour MSP to let Scots living outside the country take part in the referendum, due to be held in autumn 2014"
Now why would the SNP wish to deny true born Scots the possibility of voting on the future of a heritage of which, as we all know, they continue to be inordinately proud?
What ARE they up to?
Now why would the SNP wish to deny true born Scots the possibility of voting on the future of a heritage of which, as we all know, they continue to be inordinately proud?
What ARE they up to?
I think it just shows the nature of Scottish nationalism. Its not about some idealistic master race but about running their own affairs as an Independent country. All races are welcome but you have to stay here to vote. Makes sense to me.
I think it just shows the nature of Scottish nationalism. Its not about some idealistic master race but about running their own affairs as an Independent country. All races are welcome but you have to stay here to vote. Makes sense to me.
And me gleeber...its about the Country and not the inhabitants who have chosen to live elsewhere!
There will be plenty of English, Polish, Welsh, Lithuanian's etc. who have chosen to make Scotland their home who will be voting for Independence.
C3.............;)
wavy davy
19-Jan-12, 23:00
I note in today's "Press and Journal", in an item from the "Debate of 1000 Days", that "Expatriates will miss out on vote over independence".
Curious. One would have thought that ALL Scots-born expatriates would have rallied to the cause of Scottish independence, and provided an easy stream of votes for the establishment of an independent and sovereign state.
Now why would the SNP wish to deny true born Scots the possibility of voting on the future of a heritage of which, as we all know, they continue to be inordinately proud?
What ARE they up to?
I'm curious - why do you think that ALL expatriates would rally to the cause, any more so than ALL of the general population?
Also, I think that it's a bit of a stretch to assume that true born Scots (definition?) continue to be inordinately proud of their heritage. I know many who aren't, mainly disaffected young people - that's another issue. But let's say they are all proud Scots- it doesn't follow that they would all vote for independence surely?
If you leave the sinking ship?
I'm curious - why do you think that ALL expatriates would rally to the cause, any more so than ALL of the general population?
Also, I think that it's a bit of a stretch to assume that true born Scots (definition?) continue to be inordinately proud of their heritage. I know many who aren't, mainly disaffected young people - that's another issue. But let's say they are all proud Scots- it doesn't follow that they would all vote for independence surely?
Quite right sir; just another maudling sentimentalisation that many Scots suffer from but at the same time often running down our lack of modernisation, backwardness and couthy image.
A certain amount of irony contained within my initial post.
An SNP which, against current economic trends, is holding out for fewer cuts and continuing easements within the public sector, indicates a party in search of more votes for its aim of independence.
An SNP which seeks against the grain to attempt to lower the voting age to 16 in time for the referendum indicates a party in search of more votes for its aim of independence.
The SNP, quite reasonably, is a party which wishes to accrue more votes for independence. It certainly didn't offer a referendum with the hopes of a "no" vote.
Thus, an SNP which distinctly rebuffs the idea of the diaspora voting in a referendum indicates the SNP does NOT think expatriates will vote for an independent state. Which is precisely WHY they don't want to let the vote out to those whose decision they cannot influence with promises of jam both today and tomorrow......
My underlying thought (I will not justify it even with the word "theory") is that the SNP feels safer in the capture of votes from those who feel themselves "chained and restrained" by Westminster: safer with those in the public sector: safer with those on benefits: and safer with those more open to a visceral and emotional, rather than a logical or intelligent train of thought
Hence the shadow boxing concerning the date, the question(s) to be asked, the willy-waving with Westminster politicians "we will not be dictated to", and the general playground skirmish which brings little dignity to the proceedings.
And this from an administration which underwrote and even praised the activities of the two roguest of rogue banks, including the arch-banker of all time, who, with any luck, will lose his spurs fairly shortly (and should be forced to change his name from "Goodwin" to "Badloss".)
Send in the clowns? Don't bother - they're here!
My understanding is that anyone who is a british, european, commonwealth citizen and lives in Scotland will be able to vote. I dont get this argument. If the SNP had opened the votes up to ex pats who do not live here then they would have been accused of trawling for votes from those who have a skewed and overly patriotic view of Scotland. The SNP have consistently said that the refernedum will offer the people of Scotland the chance to decide. Whilst ex-pats are most certainly Scottish they are not the people of Scotland. /they are the people of the country they live in. Scots born ex-pats CAN influence the referendum if they wish. They can move back home to Scotland.
Having spent my voting life party political neutral, I must admit I was initially surprised that the SNP were against the idea of ex-pat voting.
But I also believe the SNP are far more politically astute than "the others".
If the SNP though that the majority of ex-pats were "like minded" you can bet the policy would be different.
Having spent my voting life party political neutral, I must admit I was initially surprised that the SNP were against the idea of ex-pat voting.
But I also believe the SNP are far more politically astute than "the others".
If the SNP though that the majority of ex-pats were "like minded" you can bet the policy would be different.
It would be grossly unfair to invite people to vote that didn't have to live with the consequences.
Bobinovich
20-Jan-12, 01:21
I may be naive on my understanding of this matter but just how would ex-pats vote? How would they prove their eligibility? Would ex-pat include someone born here but moved away age 6 months - just how far back would it go? Finally how much would the ex-pat votes cost in terms of administration compared to the relative ease of 'local' voting?
Maybe the SNP realise that the cost & hassle involved with the ex-pat vote for no guaranteed return makes it not worth pursuing.
I'm obviously a bit dolly!
Doesn't the term "Ex Pat" kind of state the position and the eligibility?
Dont confuse "expatriate" - 0ne who lives outside his/her native land, with "ex-patriot" (sometimes written as "expatriot"), meaning someone who has renounced his/her native country and who has usually moved to another country. Many expatriates - HM Forces, Civil service & Foreign Office staff stationed abroad, regularly vote in UK elections. Scottish born expatriates could easily be identified by submission of a birth certificate, and thus become enfranchised. Indeed, if David Cameron wanted a definite "no" vote, he could easily engineer a swing in that direction by pursuing such a policy and allowing the diaspora a vote.
Otherwise, we may well find ourselves in the position where Scotland's mightiest symbol, Sir Sean Connery, is barred from voting, whilst Donald Trump, Scotland's loudest cymbal, can make his mark from his nouveau-riche Scottish Baronial Palace in the Dunes.
weezer 316
20-Jan-12, 14:47
A certain amount of irony contained within my initial post.
An SNP which, against current economic trends, is holding out for fewer cuts and continuing easements within the public sector, indicates a party in search of more votes for its aim of independence.
An SNP which seeks against the grain to attempt to lower the voting age to 16 in time for the referendum indicates a party in search of more votes for its aim of independence.
The SNP, quite reasonably, is a party which wishes to accrue more votes for independence. It certainly didn't offer a referendum with the hopes of a "no" vote.
Thus, an SNP which distinctly rebuffs the idea of the diaspora voting in a referendum indicates the SNP does NOT think expatriates will vote for an independent state. Which is precisely WHY they don't want to let the vote out to those whose decision they cannot influence with promises of jam both today and tomorrow......
My underlying thought (I will not justify it even with the word "theory") is that the SNP feels safer in the capture of votes from those who feel themselves "chained and restrained" by Westminster: safer with those in the public sector: safer with those on benefits: and safer with those more open to a visceral and emotional, rather than a logical or intelligent train of thought
Hence the shadow boxing concerning the date, the question(s) to be asked, the willy-waving with Westminster politicians "we will not be dictated to", and the general playground skirmish which brings little dignity to the proceedings.
And this from an administration which underwrote and even praised the activities of the two roguest of rogue banks, including the arch-banker of all time, who, with any luck, will lose his spurs fairly shortly (and should be forced to change his name from "Goodwin" to "Badloss".)
Send in the clowns? Don't bother - they're here!
Lol! Brilliant!
I can see this referendum decending into farce long before Autumn 2014,:confused Every faction is going to want to engineer the referendum to suit their own perspective. So let's extend the franchise to every Scot wherever they are in the world as long as they can prove they were born in this country and deny it to all the incomers regardless of where they come from,:lol:. Oh while we're at it let's give at least two votes to anyone who speaks Gaelic,;).
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