View Full Version : Has the annoucement today finally rung the death knell for Thurso mart site?
Having seen the news today that Tesco is to retrench and are unlikely to be opening any new stores in the near future does this signify that the site on the old mart will now remain derelict for the foreseeable future?
if this is the case lets hope the council can do something to get Asda in there.
teddybear1873
12-Jan-12, 16:33
At the very least, they should tidy and put up a decent wall. Seater dump looks better.
The council won't do diddly, as I wouldn't be surprised gave the Highland Council a back hander.
Back hander the side of the loog it should have been.
They never intended to open a new store there in the first place, only ever intended to stop someone else from buying it & opening a store there.
I would agree that Tesco nver really anted to build a new Supermarket in Thurso. I hope that they are either forced to nuild one or to sell the land to ASDA so they can.
Not much hope of either I'm afraid.
This was from Doug Wilson Corporate Affairs Manger Tesco (Feb 2011)..
Surely there is friendly Highland Councillor somewhere who would check with the Planning Department to see 'state of play'?
Thank you for your e-mail.
As you have seen we have completed demolition and secured the site following feedback about security issues and access across the site. We are currently working with the Council to discharge conditions linked to the consent, this is a lengthy process as some conditions have to be discharged before we start onsite.
We are finalising the new development programme and hope to be able to announce firm dates for construction soon.
Thanks, Doug
Stargazer
12-Jan-12, 19:33
Tesco's sales performance reported today may have been a bit better if they spent more time pleasing customers rather than becoming property agents to exclude competition.
Will believe it when i see it.
This was from Doug Wilson Corporate Affairs Manger Tesco (Feb 2011)..Surely there is friendly Highland Councillor somewhere who would check with the Planning Department to see 'state of play'?Thank you for your e-mail.As you have seen we have completed demolition and secured the site following feedback about security issues and access across the site. We are currently working with the Council to discharge conditions linked to the consent, this is a lengthy process as some conditions have to be discharged before we start onsite.We are finalising the new development programme and hope to be able to announce firm dates for construction soon.Thanks, Doug
John Little
12-Jan-12, 22:24
They should turn the site into a stock mart - and get lots of lorries off the roads as cattle and sheep go by rail...
Hen Broon
13-Jan-12, 00:06
I thought Asda were never interested in that site, t
it was the Green field site in the Burnside area or nothing.
Keep up John Little is was the cattle mart until they closed it an' moved to Quoybrae!
John Little
13-Jan-12, 08:30
And from Quoybrae livestock is shipped out by road.
Instead of rail.
And in this green, global-warming aware age, surely freight by rail would be more ecologically sound than burdening the roads with more lorries - especially the A9?
Especially with such a strong green commitment by the ruling party who could, if their policy inclined that way, encourage the use of rail for more freight. The railways were originally built for freight.
I used to play in the cattle pens when I was a kid - and got chased out on occasion.
Tesco never had any intention of building at the Mart. This was done purely to prevent a competitor getting a foothold in Caithness. In conjunction with the Highland council Tesco have pulled every trick in the book to stop Asda, Sainsbury or anyone else building a store in the Highlands. The council in Inverness had too give in to Asda eventually or they would have faced legal action. Building a new store in Thurso is not on Tesco's agenda as people from Thurso are going to Wick if they really need to and are using the existing store anyway.
Nick Noble
13-Jan-12, 10:16
Well I have asked the question of the CEO of Tesco plc, according to one of his minions they are investigating and will get back to me as soon as possible.
I have also asked Marion Thurso to see if she can get any further information from the planning department, and will ask John Thurso if he would see if he can get any further information on the matter when I see him tomorrow.
Green_not_greed
13-Jan-12, 11:51
Well I have asked the question of the CEO of Tesco plc, according to one of his minions they are investigating and will get back to me as soon as possible.
I have also asked Marion Thurso to see if she can get any further information from the planning department, and will ask John Thurso if he would see if he can get any further information on the matter when I see him tomorrow.
Well done Nick - I'll be interested in seeing how this progresses.
Pick a date and use it as boycott Tesco day in Thurso and continue until Tesco pull there finger out. They are meant to be opened by now but its only questions that are going back and forth. Im sure if Thurso stop shopping in Tescos, it will become bigger news than they will want.
teddybear1873
15-Jan-12, 00:39
Tesco have no intentions of building another shop at the mart. They already make a profit on the 2 they have in Caithness. As they are in the property business, I wouldn't be surprised if they put up some sort of apartments.
I for one hope they do not build a superstore in Thurso.
Wick's town centre has been decimated since the openign of its store.
Kevin Milkins
15-Jan-12, 11:05
I find it extraordinary that anyone was ever really expecting Tesco to open in Thurso, why would they?
If they had a tougher policy on shoplifters they may have returned better figures for the year.;)
teddybear1873
15-Jan-12, 15:06
I find it extraordinary that anyone was ever really expecting Tesco to open in Thurso, why would they?
If they had a tougher policy on shoplifters they may have returned better figures for the year.;)
That's it Kevin, blame Antony for Tesco's troubles lol.
bluemafia
15-Jan-12, 16:33
well said and it's true
I for one hope they do not build a superstore in Thurso.
Wick's town centre has been decimated since the openign of its store.
Nick Noble
15-Jan-12, 17:02
I for one hope they do not build a superstore in Thurso.
Wick's town centre has been decimated since the openign of its store.
I am not too bothered about whether we get a new store built or not.
Yes it would be good because if they build one there is a promise of a petrol station, and an increased range of goods, which might mean that trips to Tesco in Wick are not so necessary, so often, for so many people. In addition there is a rumour of an increased work force, and more jobs are always welcome. Anything that can simultaneously reduce petrol costs, reduce the number of journeys required, increase jobs, and remove an eyesore from Thurso is a good thing.
However I would be far happier if they announced that they have no intention of building a store, agree to sell the land for other uses, perhaps some much needed afordable / social housing, perhaps a new sports/arts facility which would certainly be a boost to Thurso and the north of scotland.
If any supermarket wants to open here then fine, but the stupid land banking game to prevent competition has no place anywhere, it is a manifestly unfair and counter productive practice. If any business cannot compete in a straight fight with it's business rivals then it really should not be in business.
To be fair Asda, Sainsburys or any other supermarket you care to mention could have bought the land the same as Tesco has.
No one else made an offer for it, so I am afraid it is fair enough to me.
To be fair Asda, Sainsburys or any other supermarket you care to mention could have bought the land the same as Tesco has.
No one else made an offer for it, so I am afraid it is fair enough to me.
I'd agree with that 100%.
But if there's no intention to build, why get planning permission?
For me, it's "playing the system". Totally legal, but morally wrong at the same time. The same as a high earner getting free road tax because they give their immobile relative a lift to the shops.
How can you determine if they had an intention or not?
what does a persons earnings have to do with it, if they help an immobile person to become mobile?
I am not aware of this benifit however
How can you determine if they had an intention or not?
If Tesco wanted to build on the site, I believe they would have done, having gained planning permission. Why haven't they? It's not as if they don't have the capital to do so. They don't have any significant competition in Caithness, so they don't need to to.
what does a persons earnings have to do with it, if they help an immobile person to become mobile?
I am not aware of this benifit however
In my opinion the benefit system is there to benefit those who would otherwise suffer without. I work with somebody on £75k a year who gets free road tax as he gives his mother a lift to the shops.
A wee bit off topic, I grant you, but an abuse of the system, in the same way as Tesco are doing here in my view.
I have planning permission for a garage but I havent built it yet...why? because I have been busy with other projects that are more demanding thats why.
No doubt Tesco haver or had bigger fish to fry than a store in a small backwater town.
On the other topic, if your colleague made £7.5k a year would you object then?
Your colleague is very free with his/her personal info like their salary are they not, I like to keep that under wraps.
I have planning permission for a garage but I havent built it yet...why? because I have been busy with other projects that are more demanding thats why.
Fair enough. But I doubt your garage development is an eyesore close to the centre of town.
No doubt Tesco haver or had bigger fish to fry than a store in a small backwater town.
Then they shouldn't have started what they didn't intend to finish.
Especially when the refusal of planning permission to ASDA was at least in part influenced by the belief that the advantages of cheaper petrol etc which would have been forthcoming with Tesco's "development".
On the other topic, if your colleague made £7.5k a year would you object then?
I'm not so much objecting as highlighting an abuse of the system. If somebody is willing and able to run a car, and pay the road tax associated with it, then the fact they have a incapable relative should not make them excempt in my opinion.
Would they suddenly stop giving their mother a run to the shops? I doubt it.
Your colleague is very free with his/her personal info like their salary are they not, I like to keep that under wraps.
We have an open grading policy where I work. Each position has a fixed rate known to all.
Aaldtimer
16-Jan-12, 04:10
theone..." I work with somebody on £75k a year who gets free road tax as he gives his mother a lift to the shops."...
I find this hard to believe, can you state your sources for this benefit?:confused
I for one hope they do not build a superstore in Thurso.
Wick's town centre has been decimated since the openign of its store.
On a side note I dislike this sentiment; the sense of entitlement some small and local businesses have. They complain about supermarkets yet there are a ton of niches supermarkets don't cater to that they won't explore. They want to do things the same way they always have, that won't work any more. I can see problems with Tesco and supermarkets but Tesco doesn't close over lunch, doesn't take a half day in the middle of the week, doesn't close early etc.
They appeal to a tribal, not-invented-here, he's-not-a-local attitude because they can't adapt.
theone..." I work with somebody on £75k a year who gets free road tax as he gives his mother a lift to the shops."...
I find this hard to believe, can you state your sources for this benefit?:confused
I assume it's along the line of this:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/MotoringAndTransport/Yourvehicleandlicence/DG_10028003
but, to be honest, I don't know the details other than what he has told me.
On a side note I dislike this sentiment; the sense of entitlement some small and local businesses have. They complain about supermarkets yet there are a ton of niches supermarkets don't cater to that they won't explore. They want to do things the same way they always have, that won't work any more. I can see problems with Tesco and supermarkets but Tesco doesn't close over lunch, doesn't take a half day in the middle of the week, doesn't close early etc.
They appeal to a tribal, not-invented-here, he's-not-a-local attitude because they can't adapt.
you have that cock on rec, i can never fathom out the lunchtime closure or half days, also the diy stores shutting at lunchtime on a Satarday.
Alll of these issues could be rectified with little or no cost by staggering the staff rest periods.
Fair enough. But I doubt your garage development is an eyesore close to the centre of town.
My wife would disagree on the eyesore part.
Then they shouldn't have started what they didn't intend to finish..
Things change, I am sure they didnt see millions being wiped out of thweir business the other day either.
Especially when the refusal of planning permission to ASDA was at least in part influenced by the belief that the advantages of cheaper petrol etc which would have been forthcoming with Tesco's "development".
I dont recall that as being one of the reasons for denial, was it not diue to theor proposal to build on an area that wasnt suitable.
I'm not so much objecting as highlighting an abuse of the system. If somebody is willing and able to run a car, and pay the road tax associated with it, then the fact they have a incapable relative should not make them excempt in my opinion.
Why is it an abuse of the system?, if the benifit is there then it should be used if required.
Would they suddenly stop giving their mother a run to the shops? I doubt it.
Maybe they would
We have an open grading policy where I work. Each position has a fixed rate known to all.
£75k is a fair lift, do you live in Caithness? if so your colleague must be the Dounreay director!!
Aaldtimer
17-Jan-12, 04:17
I assume it's along the line of this:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/MotoringAndTransport/Yourvehicleandlicence/DG_10028003
but, to be honest, I don't know the details other than what he has told me.
Objection! Hearsay M'lud!;)
There is nothing to stop local authority applying for a Compulsory Purchase Order to acquire site.
Or is this measure only used in assisting billionaires build housing estates/golf courses
why would a cash strapped council go and take on the might of Tesco.
I would argue that the current site is no worse looking than the derilict buildings they demolished.
why would a cash strapped council go and take on the might of Tesco.
So if you are rich and powerful you can can do whatever you want and to hell with public opinion
Councils are elected for the benefit of both its inhabitants and commercial interests
I would argue that the current site is no worse looking than the derilict buildings they demolished.
Have you seen site since half of the fencing blew down?
What an impression to Thurso this gives out to people arriving on train
I never said that you can do what you like with power and money, but in case you havent noticed the government is on its knees, why would the council waste money enforcing a compulsary purchase on the mart site?
And what would they do with it if they did buy it?
What impression did a bunch of derelict buildings give to the town?
The boardings blew down around a month ago and since then thay have erected wire fencing at the damaged areas, at least the site has been secured.
The HRC should be more concerned with the empty shops and abandoned buildings in the town center.
weezer 316
17-Jan-12, 22:09
On a side note I dislike this sentiment; the sense of entitlement some small and local businesses have. They complain about supermarkets yet there are a ton of niches supermarkets don't cater to that they won't explore. They want to do things the same way they always have, that won't work any more. I can see problems with Tesco and supermarkets but Tesco doesn't close over lunch, doesn't take a half day in the middle of the week, doesn't close early etc.
They appeal to a tribal, not-invented-here, he's-not-a-local attitude because they can't adapt.
Yeah totally bang on. The opening hours of local shops are frankly a joke most of the time.
KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
18-Jan-12, 08:32
Keep up John Little is was the cattle mart until they closed it an' moved to Quoybrae!
Keep Up LIZZ.............. they didnt move to Quoybrae that was a different firm - Quoybrae was built by Aberdeen and Northern Marts and was a move from the Mart in Wick - Thurso Mart was run by United auctions!
Lol KEEP ON, the error has already been pointed out to me, my wrist was slapped by another member !
I was just saying albeit not as exact as I should have that the site was originally a livestock mart.
I never said that you can do what you like with power and money, but in case you havent noticed the government is on its knees, why would the council waste money enforcing a compulsary purchase on the mart site?
And what would they do with it if they did buy it?
Compared to other public spending excesses, Olympics, High Speed Rail Link etc, the cost of a CPO on this site would be minimal.
As to what would they do with it, . how about selling it onto another supermarket chain with the proviso that if it is not developed within a set time limit then it would revert back to Council.
Seeing that it is a brown field site it would also be an ideal location for low cost affordable housing for 1st time buyers.
What impression did a bunch of derelict buildings give to the town?
The boardings blew down around a month ago and since then thay have erected wire fencing at the damaged areas, at least the site has been secured.
The HRC should be more concerned with the empty shops and abandoned buildings in the town center.
One of the reasons for empty shops is the lack of confidence of business owners, both established and would be.
Would you open or expand a business knowing that in a couple of months/years time that a behemoth like Tesco or Asda is going to open up a few hundred yards from you?
You only have to look back at the reaction of the petrol retailers in Thurso when it was first muted that Tesco would start selling petrol
Compared to other public spending excesses, Olympics, High Speed Rail Link etc, the cost of a CPO on this site would be minimal.
As to what would they do with it, . how about selling it onto another supermarket chain with the proviso that if it is not developed within a set time limit then it would revert back to Council.
Correcty me if i am wrong but the HRC are not hosting the 2012 olympics or building a high speed rail network.
Seeing that it is a brown field site it would also be an ideal location for low cost affordable housing for 1st time buyers.
Where will the money come from to build these houses and where will the purchasers come from also? there is an abundance of affordable housing on the market in Thurso as it is.
One of the reasons for empty shops is the lack of confidence of business owners, both established and would be.
Would you open or expand a business knowing that in a couple of months/years time that a behemoth like Tesco or Asda is going to open up a few hundred yards from you?
You only have to look back at the reaction of the petrol retailers in Thurso when it was first muted that Tesco would start selling petrol
if there is one group of retailers that I have zero sympathy for it is fuel, they have been ripping the eyes out of us for years and continue to do so today, they make false statements about their reasoning for charging over the odds, yet when Tesco in wick opened up they all dropped their prices to within 0.1p of Tesco yet left the thurso prices the same.
If you sell good quality products at competitive prices then you should be OK, if you sell rubbish and rip folk off you wont.
Correcty me if i am wrong but the HRC are not hosting the 2012 olympics or building a high speed rail network.
You are the one that brought central Government into debate
".. but in case you havent noticed the government is on its knees.."
For clarity who do you refer to for HRC
Where will the money come from to build these houses and where will the purchasers come from also? there is an abundance of affordable housing on the market in Thurso as it is.
What may be "affordable" to you might not be for young people in minimum wage employment, which seems to be the norm for employers up here to pay
But were the retailers making a profit by selling fuel at these rates. Let's face it, if you are selling petrol at what was the actual market rate in this area and a supermarket opens up and dramatically undercuts you, then you have no option but to cut your price accordingly. In order to do this you have to cut your own costs i.e. staff, levels of service etc.
[QUOTE=mi16;921206 If you sell good quality products at competitive prices then you should be OK, if you sell rubbish and rip folk off you wont.
That is incorrect . Because of the supermarkets purchasing power the small retailer has no chance in price matching, add on the rising use of on-line sales and it takes a very brave person to start up a new retail outlet from scratch
You are the one that brought central Government into debate
For clarity who do you refer to for HRC
I merely stated that the government was on its knees, the government funds the councils hence i doubt they would get a few million to purchase the land from Tesco.
HRC = Highland regional Council
What may be "affordable" to you might not be for young people in minimum wage employment, which seems to be the norm for employers up here to pay
The minimum wage is £6.08/hr = £243.20/week = £12646.40 pa (based on 52 weeks and a 40hr working week and over 21yrs old)
I think you can get 3x salary for a mortgage these days = £37,939.20.
You couldnt build the property for £40,000 let alone sell it for that.
But were the retailers making a profit by selling fuel at these rates. Let's face it, if you are selling petrol at what was the actual market rate in this area and a supermarket opens up and dramatically undercuts you, then you have no option but to cut your price accordingly. In order to do this you have to cut your own costs i.e. staff, levels of service etc.
Most of the stations have one till and one member of staff, you cant really cut down on the staff. As for the level of service it was poor before and poor now.
By the time there are still small fuel retailers in business the numbers must still be working for them.
That is incorrect . Because of the supermarkets purchasing power the small retailer has no chance in price matching, add on the rising use of on-line sales and it takes a very brave person to start up a new retail outlet from scratch
Thats just business I am afraid, the trick I guess is to seel thinks of a better quality or completely different than Tesco, in other words stay away from groceries, CD's, DVD's, TV's etc. Macallans for instance had stayed in business as they sell quality garments not cheap rubbish.
Nick Noble
18-Jan-12, 14:35
Just a quick update, both John Thurso MP (http://johnthurso.org.uk) and Councillor Lady Thurso (http://www.highland.gov.uk/yourcouncil/yourward/ward02/ward-02g.htm) are looking into this issue and will provide me with an update as soon as they receive any information.
Tesco CEO has passed the query on to the relevant Corporate Affairs Manager who will be replying to me directly. This used to be Douglas Wilson (many thanks to Bekisman for the email address for Douglas) he has now moved onto a different area, but assures me that Gloria Coats his replacement will be responding to me. I will of course provide an update as soon as I receive one.
It's not wasteland....
It's a Tesco sponsored nature reserve.
Just a quick update, both John Thurso MP (http://johnthurso.org.uk) and Councillor Lady Thurso (http://www.highland.gov.uk/yourcouncil/yourward/ward02/ward-02g.htm) are looking into this issue and will provide me with an update as soon as they receive any information.
Tesco CEO has passed the query on to the relevant Corporate Affairs Manager who will be replying to me directly. This used to be Douglas Wilson (many thanks to Bekisman for the email address for Douglas) he has now moved onto a different area, but assures me that Gloria Coats his replacement will be responding to me. I will of course provide an update as soon as I receive one.
Well done Nick, it seems OK that everyone (apart from a few) can go whinging on about Tesco and the Mart, but at least someone is getting off their arse to actually do something about it and attempt to find out what - if anything - is going on..
Nick Noble
26-Jan-12, 20:38
Well the latest information I have is that there is no planning reason for any further delay on building. It is just a case of Tesco getting on with it.
I received a reply from Tesco today:
Dear Nick,
Thank you for your email regarding our planned new store at the Auction Mart site in Thurso. As you will be aware, the Auction Mart site is the location of our planned new Tesco store and as part of these plans our current store in the town would be sold. Our existing store remains on the commercial property market through our nationwide property agents Eric Young and Co.
We are committed to the town and our existing store remains popular with customers. The local area is also home to a great number of our suppliers.
We don't currently have an update on the timescales for construction of our planned new store, but I will make an announcement to the community and local stakeholders as soon as I have timescales confirmed.
So there we are, I'll keep pushing, and give updates as soon as I get them.
This one they are selling?
http://www.eyco.co.uk/retailInTown/property/34502/Millbank%20Road/index.html
secrets in symmetry
26-Jan-12, 22:35
Thanks for the update:
Dear Nick,
Thank you for your email regarding our planned new store at the Auction Mart site in Thurso. As you will be aware, the Auction Mart site is the location of our planned new Tesco store and as part of these plans our current store in the town would be sold. Our existing store remains on the commercial property market through our nationwide property agents Eric Young and Co.
We are committed to the town and our existing store remains popular with customers. The local area is also home to a great number of our suppliers.
We don't currently have an update on the timescales for construction of our planned new store, but I will make an announcement to the community and local stakeholders as soon as I have timescales confirmed.
It's just a pity he didn't actually tell you anything!
This one they are selling?
http://www.eyco.co.uk/retailInTown/property/34502/Millbank Road/index.html
Yes that will be the existing Thurso store, seems like sound business sense to me not taking the risk on a property laying empty after the new one is built.
Bill Fernie
29-Jan-12, 01:04
The Thurso saga might get a kick into life soon....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jan/23/asda-create-5000-new-jobs
Is Caithness populace enough to support 2 big supermarkets? The tesco in Wick is the least busy one I've ever been in. Slag off tesco all you like they drove prices down when they opened, particularly fuel. Try and remember what it was like before.
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