View Full Version : Sutherland Bros..and The Poles!
I know of many people in caithness who are unemployed,some have never even had a job since leaving school(quite simply because there was no jobs),yet whilst browsing through www.suthbros.co.uk i see they have 3 poles on there team!!!.I thought charity began at home,im sitting here asking myself are caithness people lazy(glass factory/norfrost/etc) all these people who worked there were thrown on the dole,and here we have a local employer employing poles before locals.(did the poles have extra long arms,is that how they got the job?.Or is it cheap labour for one of wicks major employers?.500,000 poles have flooded into the uk,many with criminal convictions,down here in london,there undercutting everyone in the building buisness/retail sector,dodgy employers are paying them half what uk norm is.Yet we havent got a problem with immigrant workers flooding our shores!!!...taking british jobs from underneath our noses,i had a nice young polish computer scientist renting me spare room for 4 months,polite,hard working,and honest(excellent hacker too).He told me poles on average earn £50-100 per week in warsaw,gordon brown tells me"poles are an asset to our industry"and they help our economy!all the money the poles make goes back to poland!.!.Charity begins at home gordon,help our own first i say.He also told me many poles shoplift,and drunken driving is the norm in poland(much worse booze problem than scotland).Immigrants take there attitudes with them into there host country,and that cant be good. www.migrationwatchuk.org scottish companies should be ashamed of themselves employing poles at the expense of the locals/scots!!,and dont tell me no wickers applied for the jobs. cheers scotsman
I used to share similar opinions to you Scotsman. Here's what I've learned since I moved to Aberdeen a few months ago from Thurso.
1) The Polish population here are generally very inteligent with the vast majority degree-level educated.
2) They are incredibly polite and most speak better English than me.
3) I am reliably informed that they graft for every penny they earn over here.
If Poles are winning jobs over Scots over here does that not say more about how lazy some of our unemployed are than it does about the Polish?
Point is,what about helping our own first?,i dont care how well educated they are,id rather see a wicker in a local job,than a pole!!.Im sure they do work hard,but tell that to my mate the plasterer who was getting £130 per day in building trade in london,till the poles come along and offer to work for half that. ps you didnt need to go to aberdeen for a job! sutherland bros are looking for workers...get in quick before the poles do!!!
willowbankbear
30-Oct-06, 19:10
We wouldnt need to go to Aberdeen to get a decent paid job if local employers would pay a decent rate scotsman , thats the bottom line for me
8-10 poles!..its a disgrace,hundreds of caithness people unemployed,and were helping others before we help our own.Maybe you need a degree to get a job stacking shelves?,bet they havent checked there polish work history though!.My twin lives in orkney,he too works in aberdeen(no jobs in his forte in orkney or caithness,but i wonder,would he stack shelves(if theres any jobs avail),so he could be at home with his family,or travel to aberdeen,and see his family once every 2 weeks!
pultneytooner
30-Oct-06, 19:19
I know of many people in caithness who are unemployed,some have never even had a job since leaving school(quite simply because there was no jobs),yet whilst browsing through www.suthbros.co.uk (http://www.suthbros.co.uk) i see they have 3 poles on there team!!!.I thought charity began at home,im sitting here asking myself are caithness people lazy(glass factory/norfrost/etc) all these people who worked there were thrown on the dole,and here we have a local employer employing poles before locals.(did the poles have extra long arms,is that how they got the job?.Or is it cheap labour for one of wicks major employers?.500,000 poles have flooded into the uk,many with criminal convictions,down here in london,there undercutting everyone in the building buisness/retail sector,dodgy employers are paying them half what uk norm is.Yet we havent got a problem with immigrant workers flooding our shores!!!...taking british jobs from underneath our noses,i had a nice young polish computer scientist renting me spare room for 4 months,polite,hard working,and honest(excellent hacker too).He told me poles on average earn £50-100 per week in warsaw,gordon brown tells me"poles are an asset to our industry"and they help our economy!all the money the poles make goes back to poland!.!.Charity begins at home gordon,help our own first i say.He also told me many poles shoplift,and drunken driving is the norm in poland(much worse booze problem than scotland).Immigrants take there attitudes with them into there host country,and that cant be good. www.migrationwatchuk.org (http://www.migrationwatchuk.org) scottish companies should be ashamed of themselves employing poles at the expense of the locals/scots!!,and dont tell me no wickers applied for the jobs. cheers scotsman
Try 8 - 10[lol]
I used to share similar opinions to you Scotsman. Here's what I've learned since I moved to Aberdeen a few months ago from Thurso.
1) The Polish population here are generally very inteligent with the vast majority degree-level educated.
2) They are incredibly polite and most speak better English than me.
3) I am reliably informed that they graft for every penny they earn over here.
If Poles are winning jobs over Scots over here does that not say more about how lazy some of our unemployed are than it does about the Polish?
1. The scottish population is generally very intelligent.
2. They can be very polite and welcoming to others
3. You're reliably misinformed, some do some don't the same as anywhere else.
Absolute rubbish, plenty applied for these jobs and I am sure they were not lazy.
danc1ngwitch
30-Oct-06, 19:20
1) The Polish population here are generally very inteligent with the vast majority degree-level educated.
2) They are incredibly polite and most speak better English than me.
3) I am reliably informed that they graft for every penny they earn over here.
If Poles are winning jobs over Scots over here does that not say more about how lazy some of our unemployed are than it does about the Polish?
Well I'll stand up for the scots... Give some of us a chance, not all of us are as thick as the mince we make. lol Oh and for us scots being polite, well were about to find out with some responses to this post .. hehehe, ( covers my ears ) well i danna want an ear bashing..lol Oh and u seem to think we will not do the job for the money.. Rolls eyes, I aint one to pass judgment as I will tell u Now It ain't our place to. Some of our unemplyed would work harder than most working dogs in the north but they never get a chance. So lets be fair... Leave our Scots on the brew and employ people who u claim to be better . U know what .. truth, thats the way it is .. who u know not what u know. Ops and afore i forget,,, sorry to those i may have offended by this... swipes ma face gonna post it now..
percy toboggan
30-Oct-06, 19:34
Frankly I just do not believe that the majority of Poles - much less a 'vast' majority in this country are educated to degree level. This would mean we have at least 301,000 University graduates here, many doing menial jobs. There are lied, damn lies, and statistics I know but this unsubstantiated claim is garbage.
I do not blame Poles coming here, but as unemployment rises then social strife will surely follow. It might even reach Caithness eventually.
HI percy,a lot of them down here in london are indeed educated to a high level,but here in london the high paid management jobs always go to brits.Many educated poles do menial jobs,but £250 quid a week is a fortune for a pole who makes 50 quid a week in warsaw.Why dosent uk govt help uk unemployed fill the jobs in big cities like london(pay rent etc)?...
Here's what I do know for a fact. I can't speak for Sutherland Bros but I have a friend that works for First Bus down here in Aberdeen as a driver. Poles are welcome to apply for jobs the same as everyone else. They receive the same interviews and are subject to the same checks and assuming they get the job, they'll be on the same wages as a Scotsman or anyone else who applies for the job.
The Poles are consistently winning employment because most young people these days are work-shy layabouts. I know this is a generalisation but it is well known in Aberdeen as I have already stated that a Pole will earn every penny of his wages because he fears losing his job to a local and the minimum wage he earns here is a fortune in Warsaw.
This story is repeated elsewhere in Aberdeen (which, before anyone mentions it, I know has relatively low unemployment).
I think the point I'm trying to make is this - People in Scotland have a very negative view of the Polish in Scotland (as is shown by comments in this thread) and I used to too. I have been proven wrong. If they can come here and earn jobs on merit that our unemployed / youth cannot competing on an equal case as is happening in Aberdeen (I cannot say whether or not this is the case in the Sutherland Bros situation), then good luck to them. It's the kick up the backside a lot of our unemployed need.
"I think the point I'm trying to make is this. People in Scotland have a very negative view of the Polish in Scotland (as is shown by comments in this thread) and I used to too. I have been proven wrong. If they can come here and earn jobs on merit that our unemployed cannot ( I cannot say whether or not this is the case in the Sutherland Bros situation), then good luck to them. It's the kick up the backside a lot of our unemployed need."
So you would rather see a pole get a job,afore a scot? shame on you!!You know the employment situation is dire in caithness(or you wouldnt be in aberdeen),Scottish jobs for scottish people!..or am i old fashioned.
I am sure if we put ourselves in a business person's position, we would be wary to employ anyone from a group which is reknown for being less than efficient over a person from a group which has a reputation for hard work with no grummellin'. :lol:
pultneytooner
30-Oct-06, 19:53
"I think the point I'm trying to make is this. People in Scotland have a very negative view of the Polish in Scotland (as is shown by comments in this thread) and I used to too. I have been proven wrong. If they can come here and earn jobs on merit that our unemployed cannot ( I cannot say whether or not this is the case in the Sutherland Bros situation), then good luck to them. It's the kick up the backside a lot of our unemployed need."
So you would rather see a pole get a job,afore a scot? shame on you!!You know the employment situation is dire in caithness(or you wouldnt be in aberdeen),Scottish jobs for scottish people!..or am i old fashioned.
All scots unemployed are unintelligent, workshy layabouts with the manners of a pig, apparently.:roll:
Rheghead so quaintly put!these poles are less than efficent arent they!!!
If a Caithnessian cannot get a job driving a bus because someone from hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away, who does not speak English as their mother tongue, is deemed more suitable, assuming they are all batting off the same playing field, the Caithnessian / Scotsman, needs to pick himself up, walk over to the mirror and take a long hard look at themselves.
It is not always the case, but I fear that a lot of unemployed people take too much for granted. Why should they be receiving benefits when they cannot even prove themselves to be more useful to the local workforce than someone from Eastern Europe?! Shame on them, methinks.
Scottish jobs for scottish people!..or am i old fashioned.
I hope you're not taking a job away from a decent honest English person down there in London, eh? :D
lol......lolllllll there aall immigrants doon here!
pultneytooner
30-Oct-06, 19:57
If a Caithnessian cannot get a job driving a bus because someone from hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away, who does not speak English as their mother tongue, is deemed more suitable, assuming they are all batting off the same playing field, the Caithnessian / Scotsman, needs to pick himself up, walk over to the mirror and take a long hard look at themselves.
It is not always the case, but I fear that a lot of unemployed people take too much for granted. Why should they be receiving benefits when they cannot even prove themselves to be more useful to the local workforce than someone from Eastern Europe?! Shame on them, methinks.
Assuming makes an ass of you and ming.:lol:
All scots unemployed are unintelligent, workshy layabouts with the manners of a pig, apparently.:roll:
I think I have very cleatrly stated that that is not my opinion. What I have said, is that if Poles are getting jobs over Scots in a fair playing field, that speaks volumes about the qualities of certain unemployed Scots.
My Dad was unemployed for about a year, 18 months when I was a teenager. It ripped him apart. He was a Fifer, he was a miner and he was a grafter. It was horrible to see a man as hard grafting as my Dad be without work. You know what he did? He went to Thurso College and started educating himself for the first time since he was 14. He was one of only 3 people to pass his Health Physics exams and he's now a monitor at Dounreay. He's been there 10 years or so now. I have never always seen eye-to-eye with my Dad but he will always have my respect for what he did.
If a Caithnessian cannot get a job driving a bus because someone from hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away, who does not speak English as their mother tongue, is deemed more suitable, assuming they are all batting off the same playing field, the Caithnessian / Scotsman, needs to pick himself up, walk over to the mirror and take a long hard look at themselves.
It is not always the case, but I fear that a lot of unemployed people take too much for granted. Why should they be receiving benefits when they cannot even prove themselves to be more useful to the local workforce than someone from Eastern Europe?! Shame on them, methinks.
Wicks a small place,most empolyers know your family,and when you last had a pint.Maybe the poles are working for less money(many in london do)?,maybe thats why they dont employ locals?
Assuming makes an ass of you and ming.:lol:
Again, I have very specifically stated that I do not know the Sutherland Bros situation but I know that for First Bus in Aberdeen, there policy is that Poles apply on the same conditions as any other Scotsman, Englishman or whoever.
ID rather it was only open to scot/british people to apply for jobs!...offcourse im a patriot!.
porshiepoo
30-Oct-06, 20:04
I know of many people in caithness who are unemployed,some have never even had a job since leaving school(quite simply because there was no jobs),yet whilst browsing through www.suthbros.co.uk (http://www.suthbros.co.uk) i see they have 3 poles on there team!!!.I thought charity began at home,im sitting here asking myself are caithness people lazy(glass factory/norfrost/etc) all these people who worked there were thrown on the dole,and here we have a local employer employing poles before locals.(did the poles have extra long arms,is that how they got the job?.Or is it cheap labour for one of wicks major employers?.500,000 poles have flooded into the uk,many with criminal convictions,down here in london,there undercutting everyone in the building buisness/retail sector,dodgy employers are paying them half what uk norm is.Yet we havent got a problem with immigrant workers flooding our shores!!!...taking british jobs from underneath our noses,i had a nice young polish computer scientist renting me spare room for 4 months,polite,hard working,and honest(excellent hacker too).He told me poles on average earn £50-100 per week in warsaw,gordon brown tells me"poles are an asset to our industry"and they help our economy!all the money the poles make goes back to poland!.!.Charity begins at home gordon,help our own first i say.He also told me many poles shoplift,and drunken driving is the norm in poland(much worse booze problem than scotland).Immigrants take there attitudes with them into there host country,and that cant be good. www.migrationwatchuk.org (http://www.migrationwatchuk.org) scottish companies should be ashamed of themselves employing poles at the expense of the locals/scots!!,and dont tell me no wickers applied for the jobs. cheers scotsman
I hear what you're saying, but could you just clear something up for me. Are you cheesed off that the poles are nabbing the jobs from scots only or from Brits in general?
This may be an obvious thing to you but one minute you seem to be saying that the jobs should go to wickers and the scots and the next you're moaning that they're taking the jobs from Brits.
For what it's worth, I completely agree with you on this one.
I have nothing against other nationalities whatsoever but I do think that there is a serious danger of this country becoming inhabited by any other nationality other than brits - we'll be gradually forced out.
I don't blame the foreigners though, they're just doing what anyone else in their position would do in the pursuit of a better life. I blame the goverment, we don't have enough restrictions on foreigners entering this country and working here (legally or illegally) and all available jobs in this country should be given to Brits wherever possible.
It's a sad fact that our youngsters are going to have to start looking at jobs far, far away from home nowadays as they just cannot compete with the influx of foreigners and the pittance half of them are willing to work for.
It's an even sadder fact that Enoch Powell and his 'rivers of blood' speech wasn't given more credance some 38 years ago.
What was the answer to his factual speech? Remove him from cabinet, call him rascist and instill a fear in everyone about actually daring to speak out in concern of the future of our own country.
Happens everyday!
wickers first/scots second/brits third!....i dont want no poles in uk,our own unemployed could be helped to get jobs in london and the like by uk gov,paying rent etc,much cheaper than long term unemployment!.
ID rather it was only open to scot/british people to apply for jobs!...offcourse im a patriot!.
And by implying that some Polish people are more fit to certain jobs than certain members of our unemployed, I am unpatriotic? It's my very patrioism that makes me want to see these people kicked up the bum for not having the nonce to compete with the foreigners in the first place!
It does not make me feel patriotic, however, to think that Poles feel they can come over here and compete on a level with Scottish people. It makes me feel a bit ashamed to be honest.
And by implying that some Polish people are more fit to certain jobs than certain members of our unemployed, I am unpatriotic? It's my very patrioism that makes me want to see these people kicked up the bum for not having the nonce to compete with these foreigners in the first place!
It does not make me feel patriotic, however, to think that Poles feel they can come over here and compete on a level with Scottish people. It makes me feel a bit ashamed to be honest. help our own first!
I have already told you in a previous post about my Dad. People should not just expect 'help' when they are unemployed. Why should they? You think it breeds a better standard of people and nation if we just help everyone as soon as they get into bother? A bit of backbone and hard work are what a lot of these people need to learn.
Why on Earth should we be offering assistance to people who potential Scottish employers believe aren't up to the standards of an Eastern European? These people need to get real and learn that they shouldn't expect a nice life with a nice job, nice car and all the added bonuses, handed to them on a plate.
ID rather it was only open to scot/british people to apply for jobs!...offcourse im a patriot!.
I think you confuse Patriotism and Xenophobia.
Okay,not help "a shove in the right direction",wouldnt you help your own family,before others?Come to london lad,see diversity/pc/and all the benefits of forced immigration first hand.Crime run by immigrants,prostitution run by immigrants,drug dealing and killing by the jamacian "yardies".Hitmen supplied by the bulgarian drugs cartels,black market labour fueled by immigrant/employer greed.1 bedroom flats to rent in london starting at 600pcm...and we aint got a problem.
now tell me this..
are you saying just the polish should not be given jobs.. or is it a case of all immigrants?
hmm should i not be able to work here because i am an american?
because i married and came here?
lets see.. i could be really nasty and say a load of "YOUR KIND"
has gone to the united states of america.. looking for work and better lives.
maybe the US should kick out all the scots and brits that have moved there.. oh yeah and maybe canada and austraila should do the same.. as YOU SCOTS are taking jobs away from.. would be could be hard working locals..
now after saying that..
aheemmm, variety is the spice of life.
and dont start typing furiously guys.. i do not belive any of the things i have just typed.
just using it as an example of biggotry.. ect.. ect...
dosent sound as nice when the shoe is on the other foot.
if someone is qualified for a job. and is a responsible hard worker.. then good for them.
*grins*
pultneytooner
30-Oct-06, 20:30
I have already told you in a previous post about my Dad. People should not just expect 'help' when they are unemployed. Why should they? You think it breeds a better standard of people and nation if we just help everyone as soon as they get into bother? A bit of backbone and hard work are what a lot of these people need to learn.
Why on Earth should we be offering assistance to people who potential Scottish employers believe aren't up to the standards of an Eastern European? These people need to get real and learn that they shouldn't expect a nice life with a nice job, nice car and all the added bonuses, handed to them on a plate.
What about the unemployment rate in caithness as a whole when there are plenty of jobs in caithness, i.e, sutherland bros, norfrost and wick creel factory to name a few, that have been given to eastern europeans, is it right for this to happen because you think all the unemployed in caithness are too lazy or have no backbone or are incapable of doing these jobs because that is exactly how you are coming across?
hmm and i guess there are no "bad" brits out there?
and here i was thinking all these little hooligans running loose terrorisng old ladies.. and getting asbo's left right and center.. in the news and papers every day were brittish.. silly me.. i must have been wrong .. and if there were one or two brit. kids.. they must have been led astray by the evil forign rubble
now tell me this..
are you saying just the polish should not be given jobs.. or is it a case of all immigrants?
hmm should i not be able to work here because i am an american?
because i married and came here?
lets see.. i could be really nasty and say a load of "YOUR KIND"
has gone to the united states of america.. looking for work and better lives.
maybe the US should kick out all the scots and brits that have moved there.. oh yeah and maybe canada and austraila should do the same.. as YOU SCOTS are taking jobs away from.. would be could be hard working locals..
now after saying that..
aheemmm, variety is the spice of life.
and dont start typing furiously guys.. i do not belive any of the things i have just typed.
just using it as an example of biggotry.. ect.. ect...
dosent sound as nice when the shoe is on the other foot.
if someone is qualified for a job. and is a responsible hard worker.. then good for them.
*grins*
ID rather we help our own first!...
amazing you still didnt answer the question.. you sidestepped it.
and when asked if you were taking a job away from a english person you laughed and make a remark about them all being immigrants.. surley there are some english left in england?
In my opinion, the best person for the job should be hired, regardless of race, gender, nationality, what have you.
Okay,not help "a shove in the right direction",wouldnt you help your own family,before others?Come to london lad,see diversity/pc/and all the benefits of forced immigration first hand.Crime run by immigrants,prostitution run by immigrants,drug dealing and killing by the jamacian "yardies".Hitmen supplied by the bulgarian drugs cartels,black market labour fueled by immigrant/employer greed.1 bedroom flats to rent in london starting at 600pcm...and we aint got a problem.
lol - you are now talking about something completely different. You are discussing illegal immigrants / asylum seekers / etc. I do not want to see foreign people in Scottish jobs before Scotsmen. Far from it - it makes me ashamed. If people come over here from any other country, legitimately and above the law, I'd like to think that our standards of education and tenacity as a nation and a people would ensure that all jobs went to Scotsmen either way.
We need to realise that these people are not coming over here and TAKING our jobs. They are being OFFERED these jobs, a lot of the time, by Scotsmen because they are seen as a better alternative.
That make you feel patriotic, Scotsman?
What about the unemployment rate in caithness as a whole when there are plenty of jobs in caithness, i.e, sutherland bros, norfrost and wick creel factory to name a few, that have been given to eastern europeans, is it right for this to happen because you think all the unemployed in caithness are too lazy or have no backbone or are incapable of doing these jobs because that is exactly how you are coming across?
I do not know, for the millionth time, the specifics of each of the situations above. If the Poles were competing for the same jobs at the same wages then good on them and shame on the locals who did not get them.
If the playing levels were NOT level, the shame on the very people who employed them - the working class people of Caithness. Do not preach when it is your own who are causing your downfall.
lol - you are now talking about something completely different. You are discussing illegal immigrants / asylum seekers / etc. I do not want to see foreign people in Scottish jobs before Scotsmen. Far from it - it makes me ashamed. If people come over here from any other country, legitimately and above the law, I'd like to think that our standards of education and tenacity as a nation and a people would ensure that all jobs went to Scotsmen either way.
We need to realise that these people are not coming over here and TAKING our jobs. They are being OFFERED these jobs, a lot of the time, by Scotsmen because they are seen as a better alternative.
That make you feel patriotic, Scotsman? Dont you care about the hundreds of thousands that are on the dole in scotland?hundreds in wick thurso?
They are being offered jobs,no doubt at a much lower rate to,by greedy scotsmen!
amazing you still didnt answer the question.. you sidestepped it.
and when asked if you were taking a job away from a english person you laughed and make a remark about them all being immigrants.. surley there are some english left in england?
Very few english in london(white flight they call it)id come back to wick if there was a job,but what chance have i got,if employers wanna employ more educated eastern europeans?
Dont you care about the hundreds of thousands that are on the dole in scotland?hundreds in wick thurso?
They are being offered jobs,no doubt at a much lower rate to,by greedy scotsmen!
Are you not listening to a word that is said! Of course I care!
The situation in Caithness is either one of the following;
1) Everything was done legitimately and the Poles were just considered 'better' than the locals who applied for the positions.
2) The local buisnessmen are corrupt and they went for the cheap as possible option and employed the Poles.
Either way, it's not great is it? No wonder you're now working in London and I'm in Aberdeen.
pultneytooner
30-Oct-06, 20:52
now tell me this..
are you saying just the polish should not be given jobs.. or is it a case of all immigrants?
hmm should i not be able to work here because i am an american?
because i married and came here?
lets see.. i could be really nasty and say a load of "YOUR KIND"
has gone to the united states of america.. looking for work and better lives.
maybe the US should kick out all the scots and brits that have moved there.. oh yeah and maybe canada and austraila should do the same.. as YOU SCOTS are taking jobs away from.. would be could be hard working locals..
now after saying that..
aheemmm, variety is the spice of life.
and dont start typing furiously guys.. i do not belive any of the things i have just typed.
just using it as an example of biggotry.. ect.. ect...
dosent sound as nice when the shoe is on the other foot.
if someone is qualified for a job. and is a responsible hard worker.. then good for them.
*grins*
That made me laugh brandy, the u.s was pioneered by british and european citizens, it's the most cosmopolitan country on earth.
The problem in britain as a whole is the amount of eastern europeans that have flooded into the country in their thousands over a very, very short period of time.
Too many too soon and that can't be right no matter how you try to explain it.
Are you not listening to a word that is said! Of course I care!
The situation in Caithness is either one of the following;
1) Everything was done legitimately and the Poles were just considered 'better' than the locals who applied for the positions.
2) The local buisnessmen are corrupt and they went for the cheap as possible option and employed the Poles.
Either way, it's not great is it? No wonder you're now working in London and I'm in Aberdeen.
TRUE..very true!
I think people look at the Poles / Eastern Europeans as some kind of scapegoat for a lot of the unemployment problems Scotland has when really we need to have a good long hard look at ourselves.
To go back to my point at the very start of the thread, the majority of these Poles are not bad people. They are not rubbing there hands in glee at the joy of stealing Scottish jobs. They are just trying to make there lives that bit better. If we facilitate this due to either being lazy and / or being corrupt, why should we take this out on them?
pultneytooner
30-Oct-06, 21:03
I think people look at the Poles / Eastern Europeans as some kind of scapegoat for a lot of the unemployment problems Scotland has when really we need to have a good long hard look at ourselves.
To go back to my point at the very start of the thread, the majority of these Poles are not bad people. They are not running there hands at the joy of stealing Scottish jobs. They are just trying to make there lives that bit better. If we facilitate this due to either birng lazy or being corrupt, why should we take this out on them?
If this is not a problem then how come the government are planning on restricting the levels of bulgarians and romanians coming to britain?
Maybe they have learned a lesson.
Reverse psycology!And my point was,i want people from wick to have these jobs!,not eastern europeans.You prolly did an apprenticeship at dounreay,wick has no such large employers,and most wick unemployed couldnt even afford the bus fare to aberdeen to look for a job.Wickers aint lazy,but its the "if your face fits syndrome",most wick employers would employ a pole if he was a university grad,looking for a shelf stacking job!.But what about the wickers that have been loyal to this company for over 100 years?....arent they owed something?...help your own first,charity begins at home,and poles were born in poland.
If this is not a problem then how come the government are planning on restricting the levels of bulgarians and romanians coming to britain?
Maybe they have learned a lesson.
Again side-stepping the argument. You doing an eightsome reel the Pultneytooner? See you stuck in Wick long enough - what with you now living in Golspie.
As to your point, would this be the same Government that allowed the EU regulations allowing all these foreign workforces to come and fight for our jobs in the first place? Sounds like a case of trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted.
And I make the point AGAIN - is any of this the fault of the Polish / Romainians / Bulgarians then?
peter macdonald
30-Oct-06, 21:11
Brandy very well put !!!
Lot of the fishing boats on the south side of the Moray Firth have east Europeans as crew They cant get locals to go to sea!! the hospital in Wick has Poles in the cleaning staff when they can hardly get locals to stay in the job As for keeping jobs for "Brits" in England well a wee revision of social history is required Why were so many folks from the Old Commonwealth working in England in the health services and in transport ??? Why were so many Irish folks working on the railways and motorway contruction?? Answer the jobs were low paid had unsocial hours and basically the folks down there did not want to do them !!
ps I think Im a mongrel Viking/Pict who from experience is very wary when someone calls me a "Brit" it usually means they want something
Reverse psycology!And my point was,i want people from wick to have these jobs!,not eastern europeans.You prolly did an apprenticeship at dounreay,wick has no such large employers,and most wick unemployed couldnt even afford the bus fare to aberdeen to look for a job.Wickers aint lazy,but its the "if your face fits syndrome",most wick employers would employ a pole if he was a university grad,looking for a shelf stacking job!.But what about the wickers that have been loyal to this company for over 100 years?....arent they owed something?...help your own first,charity begins at home,and poles were born in poland.
Try telling that to the born and bred Caithnessians who run Wick Creels, Sutherland Bros, etc. I want Wickers to have Wick jobs too. And I didn't do a Dounreay apprenticeship. I left high school and joined Britannia Royal Naval College where I trained to be a Royal Naval Warfare Officer before joining the submarine flotilla.
I think the difference is that people from these countries are actually WILLING to work, how many times have any of us heard unemployed people say i'm not working in norfrost, chip shop. cleaning, cafe's etc as they see these jobs as beneath them. I would rather have a willing happy worker earn there wage than a moaner who see's the job as beneath them and would rather be paid to stay in bed.
willowbankbear
30-Oct-06, 21:23
Brandy very well put !!!
Lot of the fishing boats on the south side of the Moray Firth have east Europeans as crew They cant get locals to go to sea!! the hospital in Wick has Poles in the cleaning staff when they can hardly get locals to stay in the job As for keeping jobs for "Brits" in England well a wee revision of social history is required Why were so many folks from the Old Commonwealth working in England in the health services and in transport ??? Why were so many Irish folks working on the railways and motorway contruction?? Answer the jobs were low paid had unsocial hours and basically the folks down there did not want to do them !!
They cant get locals to go to sea because it wasnt worth their while, the trips were getting longer & longer, the expenses of running the boats are enormous, the wages didnt rise-they dropped. There sre 2 local boats that have eastern europeans aboard them ,& the owners pay them a set wage every month regardless of how much the boat grosses. Its a good thing & a bad thing, a no lose for the owner though , quite right, if theyre willing
to work for poor wages crack on.
oh .. and heres a word you may not have heard before in your ramblings.. *weg* its called discrimination..
just wondering how you would feel if down in england town you went for a job.. and they said no sorry we are looking for an english man.. not a dirty scot.. your all a bunch of rabble.. drunkards.. and uneducated ijits. (not really making a point again)
you would be frothing at the mouth i bet..
oh and yup.. i know in the get go.. america was all about immigration.. as that is how the country was populated.. *laughs* but im talking recent history..
as in the here and now.
now lets see.. if i can work.. while preg.. with diabetes.. with two toddlers working around my husbands work.
then why cant anyone else.. these poor scots who can not get jobs..
there are jobs going.. i see signs up all over the place. i can name several places right now that are hiring..
oh wait thats min. wage.. so not good enough for a lot.. oopps.. some immigrant will get it. and someone can complain!
macleod_callum
30-Oct-06, 21:25
What about the unemployment rate in caithness as a whole when there are plenty of jobs in caithness, i.e, sutherland bros, norfrost and wick creel factory to name a few, that have been given to eastern europeans< Snip .>
What you and others fail to address however, is whether any of the unemployed of Wick applied for these jobs. As you say the jobs are there (if you go to the job centre in wick and use one of the computers it will show that there are dozens of jobs going in caithness) however many Scottish/British/English people are unwilling to take these jobs. Unlike the "foreigners" who are more than willing to accept them, one to fufil there visa requirements and two because we all need money be we black, white, yellow, Scottish, German, Polish or Romanian. The jobs are there if people want them. As a nation we need to evaluate ad consider our attitudes to working life and the way we support "our own" and those who immigrate here. In my view simply saying that we should be giving jobs to the home grown first is not conductive to a progressive Scotland.
Callum Macleod
pultneytooner
30-Oct-06, 21:33
What you and others fail to address however, is whether any of the unemployed of Wick applied for these jobs. As you say the jobs are there (if you go to the job centre in wick and use one of the computers it will show that there are dozens of jobs going in caithness) however many Scottish/British/English people are unwilling to take these jobs. Unlike the "foreigners" who are more than willing to accept them, one to fufil there visa requirements and two because we all need money be we black, white, yellow, Scottish, German, Polish or Romanian. The jobs are there if people want them. As a nation we need to evaluate ad consider our attitudes to working life and the way we support "our own" and those who immigrate here. In my view simply saying that we should be giving jobs to the home grown first is not conductive to a progressive Scotland.
Callum Macleod
As far as I know the companies mentioned had at one time a full compliment of local staff, so unless locals suddenly stopped applying for these jobs, there is something far wrong?
Naefearjustbeer
30-Oct-06, 21:34
I have been told in the past that when some jobs have been advertised the prospective employers have recieved not one application from a native of the county. If you advertise a job and it is only polish people who apply then I think you are bound to employ a pole for the job.
Maybe if some of the long term unemployed in the area got up off of there lazy backsides and applied for jobs they might actually get one. And as someone else mentioned the job goes to the person that has the best interview/employment record regardless of nationality sex or colour. MAybe some folk only apply for a job now and then to make sure that they appear to be looking for work so that they do not get a cut in benefits.
Just to clarify.....
Sutherland Brothers Ltd are an equal opportunities employer and dont discriminate on any grounds (age, sex, religion, race or ethnic origin etc)
Individuals are employed purely on their ability and suitability for the particular position.
All staff who are employed at Sutherland Brothers are treated equally and fairly.
We still have current vacancies for order pickers and welcome CV's from any interested individuals.
peter macdonald
30-Oct-06, 21:36
Bear I know exactly what you mean re poor wages at the fishing However these guys are keeping the boats going No crew= no boat Its a two edged sword as you say "if theyre willing to work for poor wages crack on." totally agree with you mate
Just to clarify.....
Sutherland Brothers Ltd are an equal opportunities employer and dont discriminate on any grounds (age, sex, religion, race or ethnic origin etc)
Individuals are employed purely on their ability and suitability for the particular position.
All staff who are employed at Sutherland Brothers are treated equally and fairly.
We still have current vacancies for order pickers and welcome CV's from any interested individuals.
Ive no doubt your a decent employer,youve served caithness well,as the caithness people have served you well........
engiebenjy
30-Oct-06, 23:18
I am taking no sides in this argument, but I was very interested in reading through the postings. It is very much a hot potato. One thing struck me though - if this posting had been aimed at Middle Eastern, Indian, Pakistani etc immigrants, wouldn't there have been much more talk of racism? I don't think people would have been quite so forthcoming in saying that these people shouldn't be taking up the jobs? Maybe it's just me, I don't know.
pedromcgrory
30-Oct-06, 23:50
Wicks a small place,most empolyers know your family,and when you last had a pint.Maybe the poles are working for less money(many in london do)?,maybe thats why they dont employ locals?
not the case in sutherland brothers there at east paid min wage ,and time and a half ,not like where i work its straight time every hour no matter if weekends ,2 of my polish mates have just came back to icetech as they say sutherland brothers try to treat them different
not the case in sutherland brothers there at east paid min wage ,and time and a half ,not like where i work its straight time every hour no matter if weekends ,2 of my polish mates have just came back to icetech as they say sutherland brothers try to treat them differentIn what why ?
its called political correctness connie!...usually instigated by a politically correct person.
weeboyagee
31-Oct-06, 00:42
Scotsman - you challenged Sutherland Brothers in your very first post for employing people native from Poland in the local community. You were given a reply direct from Sutherland Brothers themselves. Your direct reply to them - minus the barrage of rhetoric that you have supplied in countless other posts - lacked to say the least.
You are a Scot in London and somehow I get the impression you have never been one of the local "employed" thrown onto the scrapheap as you so quaintly put it in your first post; have never been in Management to the level where you have had to make employment decisions based on current national and European legislation, you haven't a clue about the state of the local economy in terms of the Dounreay effect, local employers and their needs; the opportunities prevailing for the unemployed both local and further afield and finally, have probably (if not definitely) never visited Poland itself or found out a little about the Polish people - yet you snipe with no real substance at Polish people being employed in our community.
You obviously have your opinion but can I suggest that when you have experienced every single one of the points in the afore mentioned paragraph, try posting then, I think you may have a slightly (if not changed) more balanced appreciation of why Polish people are in the local community and why some of them are securing jobs. At this moment to some anyway, your posts lack real substance.
Of course - I may not have realised that you have done all of the above to graduate level and are in London because the wages that employers offer in the local community are not to the level that suit you personally ;) ......and for the record I am not referring to the minimum wage!
Ok folks figures if you take
Wick - 59 unemployed
Wick west - 40 unemploeyed
Thurso central - 40 unemployed
Thurso east 40 unemployed
Thurso west 38 unemployed
Out of all these around two thirds have been unemployed for less than six months which leads me to beleive they are job changers.
At September 2006 Wick Jobcentre had 151 unfilled vacancies.
Some people have problems that make it difficult for them to get work. There are very few people who are truly workshy but there are people who are harder to help than others and are still claiming Jobseekers allowance after some considerable time.
I have only included here jobseekers allowance - there are other people who are looking for work but there are hardly hundereds and thousands of people queuing up at factory gates for work. I know that hoteliers in caithness and sutherland have struggled to fill their vacancies for years.
Please note that these figures dont totally correlate - the unfilled vacancies will be for Caithness and Sutherland but you can find the info you want here www. nomisweb.co.uk. Also the highland council do a really good labour market summary which is helpful . Its too late and im too tired to rummage any further.
Scotsman you are talking nonsense - scottish jobs for scottish people!!!! How ridiculous can you get! What about doctors, fish factory workers, cleaners, scientists????? And who says who is scottish - would you have them produce a genealogy chart to prove they are descended from william wallace and robert the bruce? Many areas have next to no unemployment and more vacancies than they know what to do with. What youa re saying might gie us an indication of the difficulties you face in your neighbourhood but actually dont reflect at all the situation in many many other parts of the UK.
Scotsman - you challenged Sutherland Brothers in your very first post for employing people native from Poland in the local community. You were given a reply direct from Sutherland Brothers themselves. Your direct reply to them - minus the barrage of rhetoric that you have supplied in countless other posts - lacked to say the least.
You are a Scot in London and somehow I get the impression you have never been one of the local "employed" thrown onto the scrapheap as you so quaintly put it in your first post; have never been in Management to the level where you have had to make employment decisions based on current national and European legislation, you haven't a clue about the state of the local economy in terms of the Dounreay effect, local employers and their needs; the opportunities prevailing for the unemployed both local and further afield and finally, have probably (if not definitely) never visited Poland itself or found out a little about the Polish people - yet you snipe with no real substance at Polish people being employed in our community.
You obviously have your opinion but can I suggest that when you have experienced every single one of the points in the afore mentioned paragraph, try posting then, I think you may have a slightly (if not changed) more balanced appreciation of why Polish people are in the local community and why some of them are securing jobs. At this moment to some anyway, your posts lack real substance.
Of course - I may not have realised that you have done all of the above to graduate level and are in London because the wages that employers offer in the local community are not to the level that suit you personally ;) ......and for the record I am not referring to the minimum wage! MY reply to them said it all!Wickers have paid there salary for years,yet for some reason unbeknown to me,they choose to employ poles,when wick has hundreds of people unemployed.Ive worked in management,and id usually try to employ a local before an outsider,if that constitues discrimination,so be it.I believe we should always help our own first.If the jobs we were talking about were for say"specialised systems admins"and a pole had a degree level,where as the others didnt,then id employ the more suitably qualified client.Are you telling me theres hundreds of unemployed in wick,who cant or wont work in SB?.There are very few jobs in wick,my only wish is to see local employers whom take much out of the community,put something back in:ie jobs for wickers.Thousands of wickers have had to take the road south to get work,and in wick in the eighties when i left there was no work.I live in london,work in taunton somerset,id move out of london if i could afford to in 2 mins!,i feel like a stranger doon here.Polish people are in our local communitys because of greed/mismanagement/corruption in there own homeland...at the expense of wicks unemployed.Political correctness gone mad.
MY reply to them said it all!Wickers have paid there salary for years,yet for some reason unbeknown to me,they choose to employ poles,when wick has hundreds of people unemployed.Ive worked in management,and id usually try to employ a local before an outsider,if that constitues discrimination,so be it.I believe we should always help our own first.If the jobs we were talking about were for say"specialised systems admins"and a pole had a degree level,where as the others didnt,then id employ the more suitably qualified client.Are you telling me theres hundreds of unemployed in wick,who cant or wont work in SB?.There are very few jobs in wick,my only wish is to see local employers whom take much out of the community,put something back in:ie jobs for wickers.Thousands of wickers have had to take the road south to get work,and in wick in the eighties when i left there was no work.I live in london,work in taunton somerset,id move out of london if i could afford to in 2 mins!,i feel like a stranger doon here.Polish people are in our local communitys because of greed/mismanagement/corruption in there own homeland...at the expense of wicks unemployed.Political correctness gone mad.
The only reason for employing someone if you are managing a business is that they are the best person for the job and thats it. You talk about the eighties but that was a WHOLE completely different kettle of fish - circumstances were hugely different and the problems causing unemployment were totally different. You cannot begin to draw parallels. Often wickers move south not to get jobs but to get better wages or better jobs - this doesnt mean there are no jobs it just means there arent the opportunities that maybe found elsewhere for some people.
MY reply to them said it all!Wickers have paid there salary for years,yet for some reason unbeknown to me,they choose to employ poles,when wick has hundreds of people unemployed.Ive worked in management,and id usually try to employ a local before an outsider,if that constitues discrimination,so be it.I believe we should always help our own first.If the jobs we were talking about were for say"specialised systems admins"and a pole had a degree level,where as the others didnt,then id employ the more suitably qualified client.Are you telling me theres hundreds of unemployed in wick,who cant or wont work in SB?.There are very few jobs in wick,my only wish is to see local employers whom take much out of the community,put something back in:ie jobs for wickers.Thousands of wickers have had to take the road south to get work,and in wick in the eighties when i left there was no work.I live in london,work in taunton somerset,id move out of london if i could afford to in 2 mins!,i feel like a stranger doon here.Polish people are in our local communitys because of greed/mismanagement/corruption in there own homeland...at the expense of wicks unemployed.Political correctness gone mad.
Seriously lad, you could not be more wrong if you tried. Polish people are not here because of greed/mismanagement/corruption in Poland, they are here because of greed/mismanagement/corruption in the UK!!! You said it yourself, there are so many corrupt employers (I'm not including Suth Bros or anyone else specifically here - as I have said loads of times, not sure of the details of the cases in Caithness) willing to employ Poles at less than minimum wage. This is still a lot of money to these guys so over they come. As long as there are corrupt employers and menial tasks a proportion (and there is a proportion - I have no idea how big it is but there is a %) of UK unemployed who won't do them for minimum wage, Poles and other Eastern Europeans will move here and do them for us.
As I have said time and time again, blame the Government, blame the employers, blame the unemployed, blame me, whatever, makes no odds. But don't blame these people for coming over here to a foreign country, away from the people they love, where their main language is not their mother tongue and working hard to try and give themselves and their families a better life. If you were in their shoes, would you not consider doing the same?
Scotsman you are talking nonsense - scottish jobs for scottish people!!!! How ridiculous can you get! What about doctors, fish factory workers, cleaners, scientists????? And who says who is scottish - would you have them produce a genealogy chart to prove they are descended from william wallace and robert the bruce? Many areas have next to no unemployment and more vacancies than they know what to do with. What youa re saying might gie us an indication of the difficulties you face in your neighbourhood but actually dont reflect at all the situation in many many other parts of the UK.
Squidge I am with you on this one, Scotsman your are a few steps from being a racist IMO, the people from Poland are Polish not POLES, and I have met more nice Polish people in Leith in the last few months that I have met .Orgers
Lucky you! all i met when i lived in coburg st,leith was prostitues!...."Racist" is a term used by the politically correct and there assumptions.Your assumption being very short.Seriously,these nice polish immigrants are getting everywhere!,what next,a polish cultrue centre in wick,council leaflets in polish,polish duty solicitor at wick sherrif court,if i wanted to live amongs poles,id have moved to poland!.Come to london golach,and ill give you a trip around the nice/crime ridden immigrant ghettos of north london.Then maybe then,youd care more about who were letting ino uk!500,000 bulgarians and romanians on the way lad....ever had your credit card cloned?....
Seriously lad, you could not be more wrong if you tried. Polish people are not here because of greed/mismanagement/corruption in Poland, they are here because of greed/mismanagement/corruption in the UK!!! You said it yourself, there are so many corrupt employers (I'm not including Suth Bros or anyone else specifically here - as I have said loads of times, not sure of the details of the cases in Caithness) willing to employ Poles at less than minimum wage. This is still a lot of money to these guys so over they come. As long as there are corrupt employers and menial tasks a proportion (and there is a proportion - I have no idea how big it is but there is a %) of UK unemployed who won't do them for minimum wage, Poles and other Eastern Europeans will move here and do them for us.
As I have said time and time again, blame the Government, blame the employers, blame the unemployed, blame me, whatever, makes no odds. But don't blame these people for coming over here to a foreign country, away from the people they love, where their main language is not their mother tongue and working hard to try and give themselves and their families a better life. If you were in their shoes, would you not consider doing the same?
NO!...id not move to poland,im too considerate to take polish peoples jobs,and 50 quid a week dosent go far!.Polish govt is ranked no 70 in the world for corruptness,india and pakistan being no1 and 2 respectivley. http://www.radio.com.pl/polonia/article.asp?tId=30363&j=2 free healthcare in uk anyone?
peter macdonald
31-Oct-06, 09:23
Scotsman You seem to be a little out of touch re the health care situation in Wick Most of the Poles wait to go home on holiday to get their teeth fixed because there is no NHS dentist in Caithness Also the Polish heathcare system has a highly trained and regarded workforce (in fact it is regarded as one of the best in Europe) however the system is struggling with an overload due to an increasingly aged population and a growing HIV problem in the cities This situation is not helped by the amount of Doctors etc moving to the UK Germany etc
All care is free except for presciption charges which have gone up in last two or three years but are still very cheap in Western terms
Coming to the UK for free medical care I think not!!!!
Also some other Caithness companies have employed Polish craftsmen ..at craftsmens wages and are very pleased with them I know of one case where the employer lost some of his workforce as they went offshore to better paid jobs He advertised for workers and the ONLY replies he got were from Polish workers Worked out fine
"I think the point I'm trying to make is this. People in Scotland have a very negative view of the Polish in Scotland (as is shown by comments in this thread) and I used to too. I have been proven wrong. If they can come here and earn jobs on merit that our unemployed cannot ( I cannot say whether or not this is the case in the Sutherland Bros situation), then good luck to them. It's the kick up the backside a lot of our unemployed need."
So you would rather see a pole get a job,afore a scot? shame on you!!You know the employment situation is dire in caithness(or you wouldnt be in aberdeen),Scottish jobs for scottish people!..or am i old fashioned.
I do not see that the comments in this thread can be extrapolated to the view that 'People in Scotland have a very negative view of the Polish in Scotland'. Some people might but certainly not the majority. Certainly and fortunately very few people are as racist, short-sighted and biggoted as this correspondent. Maybe the threads are dominated by the unemployed and the retired and so are not reflective of the general working population!!!!!!!!!!!
NO!...id not move to poland,im too considerate to take polish peoples jobs,and 50 quid a week dosent go far!.Polish govt is ranked no 70 in the world for corruptness,india and pakistan being no1 and 2 respectivley. http://www.radio.com.pl/polonia/article.asp?tId=30363&j=2 free healthcare in uk anyone?
Notice I did not specify Poland. I asked whoud you not move to a FOREIGN COUNTRY to give the people you love a better life. Perhaps a country where you could earn 4 times what you are earning here doing a job certain people in that country wouldn't do?
And rascist isn't a politically correct term. Rascism is when you have an unfounded dislike / hatred for people of another nation. You are rascist towards the Polish because they work over here.
I have already made it very clear (and you have agreed) that the Polish are either getting jobs because of lazy % of the unemployed or corruption in the ranks of employers. Either way, why do you blame the Polish? Why don't you channel your energy into studying the facts a bit more and looking at problems within people in your own country.
As an aside, you wouldn't go to a foreign country and steal one of their jobs? Last time I checked England was a seperate country from Scotland.
I do not see that the comments in this thread can be extrapolated to the view that 'People in Scotland have a very negative view of the Polish in Scotland'. Some people might but certainly not the majority. Certainly and fortunately very few people are as racist, short-sighted and biggoted as this correspondent. Maybe the threads are dominated by the unemployed and the retired and so are not reflective of the general working population!!!!!!!!!!!
Cattach you are almost certainly right. But lets say you are a foreigner looking to move into Caithness (a county with a dwindling and aging population) with your young family, either from a foreign country or from within the UK, and you read this thread. How would it look?
What angers me more than anything is the complete lack of intellect behind some of the posts in this thread.
At my work, we recently had a job vacancy and I can assure you that very few people applied in general! If there are so many people looking for work, why so few applications? For the record, none of the applicants were Polish.
If Wick jobs should be given to Wick people, Thurso jobs to Thurso people ....... and so on, then surely Wick people should shop in Wick shops, Thurso people in Thurso shops ....... and so on - it has to work both ways. Therefore, we have to say goodbye to Somerfield, Co-op, Woolworths, Tesco, Asda, Aurora, Boots, Superdrug, Semi-chem ..........the list goes on! Without the arrival of 'foreign companies' there wouldn't be ample jobs for locals.
I would just like to say that my family are Polish, my gran HAD to come here after the war, after they had been made orphans and bounced around all over the place...including an orphanage in Africa. when she came to this country she lived on a camp in old army pre fab buildings, she could not speak english and everything was very different, but she went out and found a job.....no benefits.....worked for rubbish wages and save to buy her house doing all the overtime going....the british girls she worked with taught her to speak English and were some of the best friends she ever had.....most Polish people i know have NEVER claimed any benefits, they have gone out and worked hard for whatever wages to pay the bills (thank goodness the girls she worked with in the age of Enoch Powell did not share the views of some on this thread).....I have a Polish name, but am British born (and so is my Father and Mother) and have been applying for jobs in customer service, admin, supervisory and as yet have not received one reply...maybe my name is going against me !!!!!....as i am going for jobs above minimum wage.....
Saffy100
there is another point just come to my head here, the normal posts are complaiints about immigrants and asylum seekers coming here and sponging benefits and when immigrants come here and get work you complain just as bitterly?????? what are they supposed to do work or claim benefits which would you prefer (and go home is not an option)
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 10:54
Maybe I shouldn't but I feel I have to defend scotsman here, he's stating an honest opinion about something that is at the forefront of a lot of angst in this country at the moment, Whether we like it or not it's a sad fact that in the future British people will be the minority in this country.
The only way to give Britain back to the British public is to start enforcing serious restrictions on the amount of non Brits that we allow to settle in this country.
It's all well and good branding Scotsman 'close' to a rascist but it's exactly that kind of comment that prevents people from really standing up against what is wrong in this country.
I for one would stand up and say that we shouldn't be allowing all these immigrants into this country for any reason, and if that makes me rascist in the syes of some people then so be it!
This is an excerpt from Enoch Powells speech in 1968. If he could forsee this problem escalating to what it is today why are we so ignorant that we cannot address the issue, deal with it now (not in the year 2014) and unite this country once again, then, and only then should we take stock and have future immigrant plans in place that will in no way antagonise the British people and will not be to the detriment of the British public and Great Britain.
The discrimination and the deprivation, the sense of alarm and resentment, lies not with the immigrant population but with those among whom they have come and are still coming. This is why to enact legislation of the kind before Parliament at this moment is to risk throwing a match on to the gunpowder. The kindest thing that can be said about those who propose and support it is they know not what they do.
Also, personally I don't think we should allow any non English speaking person into this country - Ever!
If they want to get in they should learn the language first, they shouldn't be allowed to create their own communities, they should have to be here for a minimum amount of years before they are allowed any kind of state help / benefit / NHS treatment and they should have to live by our way of life.
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 10:58
there is another point just come to my head here, the normal posts are complaiints about immigrants and asylum seekers coming here and sponging benefits and when immigrants come here and get work you complain just as bitterly?????? what are they supposed to do work or claim benefits which would you prefer (and go home is not an option)
Not 'go home', stay home in the first place! And that isn't meant in a nasty way (although some will see it as nasty), I'm not being antagonistic either, it's simply a point of view. We have enough non english speaking, non brits here to last a life time.
[quote=scotsman;154003]Lucky you! all i met when i lived in coburg st,leith was prostitues!....".Come to london golach,quote]
I lived in that area of Leith for a lot more years than you ever did from Oct 1964 to July 1979 and I never saw any ladies of the night and I drank in the Coburg Bar and the Black Swan I never met any of these ladies. I had no reason to.
As for living in London that is your choice not mine, I have lived there also, but I chose not to stay.
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 11:05
Pardon me for barging in, but has anyone had any thoughts about the significant numbers of Brits (including Scots, and possible Weekers) who are upping sticks and moving/retiring to such exotic places as Spain? Any language restrictions on them, or is it OK for them to speak in english, raise their voice and wave their arms about if not understood?
The EU has been good to many Brits over the years as far as travelling for work is concerned, for example the building trade in Germany in the 80's and oil-related work in Norway today.
Seems a bit arrogant for us to come and go as we please yet complain about Polish folk filling jobs 'our own' don't want.
bravo..bravo! they just dont get it do they!never mind,500,000 romanians/bulgarians on the way...
Pardon me for barging in, but has anyone had any thoughts about the significant numbers of Brits (including Scots, and possible Weekers) who are upping sticks and moving/retiring to such exotic places as Spain? Any language restrictions on them, or is it OK for them to speak in english, raise their voice and wave their arms about if not understood?
The EU has been good to many Brits over the years as far as travelling for work is concerned, for example the building trade in Germany in the 80's and oil-related work in Norway today.
Seems a bit arrogant for us to come and go as we please yet complain about Polish folk filling jobs 'our own' don't want.
I think they call it white flight!,come to london,and you will see the reason why there baling out!!!
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 11:09
Pardon me for barging in, but has anyone had any thoughts about the significant numbers of Brits (including Scots, and possible Weekers) who are upping sticks and moving/retiring to such exotic places as Spain? Any language restrictions on them, or is it OK for them to speak in english, raise their voice and wave their arms about if not understood?
The EU has been good to many Brits over the years as far as travelling for work is concerned, for example the building trade in Germany in the 80's and oil-related work in Norway today.
Seems a bit arrogant for us to come and go as we please yet complain about Polish folk filling jobs 'our own' don't want.
For one we're upping and moving sticks cos we're gradually being pushed out of this country and another thing, I for one have never said that I think it's ok for us to just move in to another country.
I vote we carry out the same kind of point scoring system that the likes of the US, Canada, Australia etc etc adhere to, and if other countries such as Spain etc choose to do the same then I'm ok with that.
Scotsman You seem to be a little out of touch re the health care situation in Wick Most of the Poles wait to go home on holiday to get their teeth fixed because there is no NHS dentist in Caithness Also the Polish heathcare system has a highly trained and regarded workforce (in fact it is regarded as one of the best in Europe) however the system is struggling with an overload due to an increasingly aged population and a growing HIV problem in the cities This situation is not helped by the amount of Doctors etc moving to the UK Germany etc
All care is free except for presciption charges which have gone up in last two or three years but are still very cheap in Western terms
Coming to the UK for free medical care I think not!!!!
Also some other Caithness companies have employed Polish craftsmen ..at craftsmens wages and are very pleased with them I know of one case where the employer lost some of his workforce as they went offshore to better paid jobs He advertised for workers and the ONLY replies he got were from Polish workers Worked out fine
Peter,did you click that liink?
Britain faces wave of EU racists
Monday, October 23, 2006 Britain faces a wave of white racists flooding in from Eastern Europe, the head of the race relations watchdog has warned.
Speaking about the tensions in British communities, Trevor Phillips said many arrivals from former Soviet countries displayed prejudice against black people.
Debate over Muslim dress could trigger riots, race chief warns
'Some eastern European people have attitudes to black people that date back to the Fifties,' he told BBC television. 'And that is not acceptable.'
His warning came as Home Secretary John Reid prepared to impose curbs on immigration from Romania and Bulgaria when the two countries join the EU in January.
According to the Daily Mail, the measures are expected to include a time limit on how long people who arrive looking for work can stay.
Skilled workers will be favoured, with only a small number of unskilled labourers being allowed entry.
Ministers accept they made a mistake by not imposing similar controls when other countries including Poland joined the EU in 2004.
The Government estimated that 13,000 would arrive but more than 330,000 actually flocked in.
The new stance reflects heightened concern about race relations in the wake of the Muslim veil row.
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 11:14
I think they call it white flight!,come to london,and you will see the reason why there baling out!!!
Yep, I saw it in the sweet, little town of Boston that we lived. I've mentioned it before and I'll mention it again (at the risk of infraction :lol: ), by the time we baled out of that town it was over run with immigrants, and thats not me exaggerating either. Statistics may show that the immigrants were in the minority and maybe still are but it was a small town and these poor people were just shipped in to keep up with goverment area releases that had to be followed. they weren't integrated properly they were just given council house, benefits and usually all ended up on the same streets which meant they formed their own communities.
Like I said, statistics may show they were in the minority but it certainly didn't feel like that - and still doesn't.
The goverment is doing wrong by these people just as much as they're doing wrong by us. They're putting them into a situation that is bound to cause angst with alot of the native community and when we can't seem to get ourselves heard by the powers that be we take it out on the immigrants that are trying to settle.
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 11:18
I think they call it white flight!,come to london,and you will see the reason why there baling out!!!
Hey 'Scotsman', I wasn't siding with you, your 'white flight' theory stinks of racism.
However it strikes me that in this argument there's a parallel with the old Caithness 'white settler' issue: people selling up in London, coming up here with all the money they've realised, buying up houses so our young folk cannae afford them...
Or how about the refugees from the south of scotland, chased out of Glasgow, coming up here and filling our council houses, on drugs, on the dole, bairns out of control...
Look after our own first, eh?
Hey 'Scotsman', I wasn't siding with you, your 'white flight' theory stinks of racism.
However it strikes me that in this argument there's a parallel with the old Caithness 'white settler' issue: people selling up in London, coming up here with all the money they've realised, buying up houses so our young folk cannae afford them...
Or how about the refugees from the south of scotland, chased out of Glasgow, coming up here and filling our council houses, on drugs, on the dole, bairns out of control...
Look after our own first, eh?
I see you have the same attitutude as me,except i was talking about the good polish people!....
Wicks a small place,most empolyers know your family,and when you last had a pint.Maybe the poles are working for less money(many in london do)?,maybe thats why they dont employ locals?
As an ex-employer I would imagine I speak for all employers here. when a job becomes available you want the best person available. Honesty, reliability, sobriety, respect for the bosses, loyalty and willingness to graft every hour for which they are paid goes a long way towards obtaining employment.
We do not employ people 'just because they are cheap' They are subject to the same rules as British, and the same rates of pay. Of course i am not speaking for London, where willingness to do the same work for less pay may also be a factor.
If the poles are winning jobs over our own, then we must ask ourselves why.
Employers are out to make a profit, not to provide jobs for unsuitable candidates just because they are local.
willowbankbear
31-Oct-06, 11:29
NO!...id not move to poland,im too considerate to take polish peoples jobs,and 50 quid a week dosent go far!.Polish govt is ranked no 70 in the world for corruptness,india and pakistan being no1 and 2 respectivley. http://www.radio.com.pl/polonia/article.asp?tId=30363&j=2 free healthcare in uk anyone?
My dentist in Thurso is Polish, cant see ANYthing wrong with her, very polite , professional, what more do ye want?
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 11:29
Hey 'Scotsman', I wasn't siding with you, your 'white flight' theory stinks of racism.
However it strikes me that in this argument there's a parallel with the old Caithness 'white settler' issue: people selling up in London, coming up here with all the money they've realised, buying up houses so our young folk cannae afford them...
Or how about the refugees from the south of scotland, chased out of Glasgow, coming up here and filling our council houses, on drugs, on the dole, bairns out of control...
Look after our own first, eh?
Good grief, it's completely different! The people you speak of were all Brits and as suchh have as much right as anyone to move around within Great Britain.
That little speach there smacks of as much rascism as what you claim scotsmans does - "Filling our council houses" - what's that? Are you not speaking of Brits moving within Great Britain? If so that makes them there council houses as much theirs as it does yours.
In house moving around isn't the problem within this country, it's the uncontrolled influx of the foreign element pouring in that is going to be our downfall.
It's also a sad fact that we don't look after our own first, thats another part of the problem.
We should be cleaning our own streets first, spending as much money on our own homeless as we do on letting more people in.
Is Poland using Western Europe as its own personal Australia?
In an article entitled “Why Polish Emigration is bad for Europe but good for Poland” an author writing for the European News Review accuses the Polish government of refusing to stop the flood of emigrants from Poland because it is helping them in the polls.
With lower unemployment there is less competition for jobs so this makes those who are actually looking for work in Poland happier. At the same time the Polish Government is able to use the lower unemployment figures to show that its policies are having a positive effect on the Polish economy.
The net result is that more of the Polish people are happy with the way the Polish government is running the country.
Many troublemakers and criminals have left Poland for Western Europe. The crime rate in Polish cities is down. See
The author cites an unavailable (just click on the link) article from the Irish Examiner to back up these claims. Regardless of the source's unavailability, from the wording of the sentence and link, it seems that rather than proving the outrageous claim that Poland is sending its worst seeds to contaminate the Western European lands, the author uses the Irish Examiner article to more back up the claim that crime in Poland is down.
Crime wave
This is true – but hardly because Poland has been “exporting its criminals”. The numbers have been turning that way for a while now: There have been more police on the streets for the past couple of years, and employment is up. Please remember that a rise in employment does not necessarily correspond to lower unemployment. As the author claims, unemployment has dropped partly as a result of the exodus. But the employment rate has also been steadily rising. Last month it was up by 3.3 percent (registration requred).
Certainly, there have been incidents of crime by recent Polish immigrants documented in Western Europe, but it's hardly the crime wave you would expect if Poland were using the UK and Ireland as its own personal penal colony. The violence against Poles since borders in the UK, Ireland and Sweden were opened in 2004 has been arguably larger in scale than crimes committed by Poles (Polish link).
Homebodies
In my experience, Poles by nature and culture are very reluctant to leave home – one of the reasons so many young, talented Poles chose to remain unemployed in small cities rather than move to Warsaw where a job (albeit low-paying) was almost sure to be found. They aren't leaving Poland because they've become bored with committing crimes here. They've left only because they're guaranteed to earn more than they could here, doing jobs they can bear.
I know an Irish recruiter personally. The men he recruits to send to Ireland for various construction and building jobs are not simply shipped off at the drop of a hat. Their backgrounds are checked – previous employers are interviewed. They are sent over to fill specific places in specific construction firms. These are semi-skilled workers that have been working most of their lives. Many are over 35. Most have families. These are hardly hardened criminals.
The youths that go tend to go on more capricious terms – but these too are hardly the criminal type. Most are university students with skills companies in Poland can't find a use for. Their skills (and yes, wage demands) are a perfect fit for the economies they have moved to contribute to. They are computer programmers, electrical engineers, nurses, young doctors, or dentists. Why lead a life of crime and risk being sent back to Poland, where little waits for them?
I wonder if the author has even visited Ireland or the UK since Poles have been allowed to work there without hindrance. They are generally considered skilled, honest and hardworking. So where are the criminals?
The crime example is the only evidence the author offers for the current wave of Polish emigration being “bad for Europe,” but the proof the author provides for it being “good for Poland” is equally as questionable.
Glass houses
For example, the author confuses the economic forces acting on the housing market here, first by saying that the exodus has put less pressure on the housing market – apparently making housing more available to Poles – thereafter citing two reasons why the housing market is so expensive as to keep flats out of the reach of the average Pole [emphasis mine]:
Once again Polish emigration is helping. By exporting Poles to the West there are fewer people who will be available to buy houses and that will take pressure off the housing market.
The housing shortage is partially due to the lack of government action to make the process of land acquisition and the obtaining of building permits easier for developers. With less of a demand for housing there is less pressure on the government to take action to make it easier to build flats. See
Western Europeans are also helping the government by buying those flats that they can find available. The demand by these European investors has increased the price of housing in Poland. See
Despite the enormous “pressure” the author sees lifted from the housing market by the loss of a few hundred thousand Poles (a great number of whom keep their residences in Poland), prices in the Polish housing market are spiraling upward with no relief in sight – partly for the reasons the author was good enough to point out. The emigration has not done a thing to make it easier for Poles to obtain housing.
Good for everybody
However, I would still agree with the author that the emigration is good for Poland, as I've argued here earlier. But not for the reasons the author cites (S/he seems to mean it's good for the Polish government). Rather, emigrees are giving the economies they go to an economic boost (those countries that have allowed in the most Poles have benefitted the most economically), which allows those economies to buy more Polish products. With the tightening of the job market, Polish businesses must raise salaries to keep skilled workers here. As Poles go abroad, they gain experience and skills that will help them in their future careers. Since the UK or Ireland are so close (getting closer every day with cheap flights cris-crossing the continent), and since Poles are so strongly tied to their homes (as I mentioned above) we can expect a large number to return, bringing those skills and know-how back to Poland one day.
The Polish emigration to Western Europe is good for Poland, good for Western Europe, good for Europe as a whole and, I would contend, good for the world economy. From the tone of the ENR article, it seems the author is simply taking the opportunity to attack the current populist government – positive developments (like lower crime) in the country be damned. While I'm no fan of the current government, I'm willing to give them their due on the crime front. Crime has dropped on their watch – but was dropping before they took office. So not even much credit can be given them.
Unpopular populists
But the author seems to think these developments have led to some magnificent swell in the government's popularity:
“The net result is that more of the Polish people are happy with the way the Polish government is running the country.” One wonders more than what exactly.
Yet again, the author errs. A poll released just today (the same date as ENR's essay) shows a full 36 percent of the country says it is “against” the Kaczyński government (Polish link), 31 percent have no opinion, with 28 percent – the lowest result – “for” the government. On top of that, some 48 percent believe the actions of Kaczyński's cabinet will not make Poland's economic situation any better.
One wonders if someone with such incomplete knowledge of Poland, its politics, and its place in Europe ought to be making inflamatory claims that the country is “exporting its criminals”. Such claims are sensationalist, dangerous, and ultimately – lies.
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 11:32
My dentist in Thurso is Polish, cant see ANYthing wrong with her, very polite , professional, what more do ye want?
A ruddy dentist for everyone! :lol:
My dentist in Thurso is Polish, cant see ANYthing wrong with her, very polite , professional, what more do ye want?
a BRITISH DENIST!....
oh .. and heres a word you may not have heard before in your ramblings.. *weg* its called discrimination..
just wondering how you would feel if down in england town you went for a job.. and they said no sorry we are looking for an english man.. not a dirty scot.. your all a bunch of rabble.. drunkards.. and uneducated ijits. (not really making a point again)
you would be frothing at the mouth i bet..
oh and yup.. i know in the get go.. america was all about immigration.. as that is how the country was populated.. *laughs* but im talking recent history..
as in the here and now.
now lets see.. if i can work.. while preg.. with diabetes.. with two toddlers working around my husbands work.
then why cant anyone else.. these poor scots who can not get jobs..
there are jobs going.. i see signs up all over the place. i can name several places right now that are hiring..
oh wait thats min. wage.. so not good enough for a lot.. oopps.. some immigrant will get it. and someone can complain!
I agree with that. there are signs all over the place for workers in the catering trade. I can vouch that they are very difficult to get. Where are all these unemployed wickers who can't get jobs?
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 11:38
Yep, I'm sure there would be more people happy if we spent this immigrant resource money on training up our own people for these NHS jobs.
The goverments not bothered about doing that though cos it knows it can entice them in with luxuries that they won't get elsewhere.
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 11:38
Good grief, it's completely different! The people you speak of were all Brits and as suchh have as much right as anyone to move around within Great Britain.
That little speach there smacks of as much rascism as what you claim scotsmans does - "Filling our council houses" - what's that? Are you not speaking of Brits moving within Great Britain? If so that makes them there council houses as much theirs as it does yours.
In house moving around isn't the problem within this country, it's the uncontrolled influx of the foreign element pouring in that is going to be our downfall.
Oops, forgive my inexperience Porshiepoo! I was trying to be ironic there, and maybe tease out what exactly it is that people are afraid of. Is it loss of jobs (what the thread was originally about) or is it a deeper thing?
I personally am a 'white settler', and have endured the old 'coming here/taking our jobs/houses' jibes, albeit not for some time.
Anyway, just who is causing such crime as is happening in Wick these days?
Is it Polish immigrants?
GAZETA WYBORCZA (the biggest independent Polish newspaper) has announced that crime rate is running down in Poland in effect of mass emigration to the UK and Ireland.
In 2005 there were 2000 less committed crimes than in 2004. There is less car thieves or just bandits who attack people at the streets.
In one of the villages near Krakow, the situation has changed completely when about 60 young aggressive men left for UK. Now the village is sleepy and silent, and before it was a very dangerous place. Those young are said to become good workers in UK.
It is obvious that Polish criminals or just aggressive fellows are much more quiet abroad, but they are still aggressive and dangerous, and Polish internet forums are full of examples of it. Especially hooligans can turn from quite good workers into very aggressive criminals. The example of it I had in Carlow during soccer games of Polish team.
There is nothing to be happy about, because those people are still dangerous, both if they are in Poland, Ireland or UK. Again Poland as a state prefers to get rid our local problems at Ireland’s or UK’s expense.
wickers first/scots second/brits third!....i dont want no poles in uk,our own unemployed could be helped to get jobs in london and the like by uk gov,paying rent etc,much cheaper than long term unemployment!.
The only way you'll get some people to work, is make tham graft for their benifits! Giving people money for sitting on their backsides is part of what is causing the whole problem.
Good grief, it's completely different! The people you speak of were all Brits and as suchh have as much right as anyone to move around within Great Britain.
That little speach there smacks of as much rascism as what you claim scotsmans does - "Filling our council houses" - what's that? Are you not speaking of Brits moving within Great Britain? If so that makes them there council houses as much theirs as it does yours.
In house moving around isn't the problem within this country, it's the uncontrolled influx of the foreign element pouring in that is going to be our downfall.
It's also a sad fact that we don't look after our own first, thats another part of the problem.
We should be cleaning our own streets first, spending as much money on our own homeless as we do on letting more people in.
lololol - do you understand what the EU is? What the elected government of this country has done is essentially make someone from Spain, Poland, Belgium, whatever, exactly the same as a UK worker. These people have been given the right to come over here by our governments and earn a living. I don't have to like it but I'm not going to blame the people who come here.
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 11:58
lololol - do you understand what the EU is? What the elected government of this country has done is essentially make someone from Spain, Poland, Belgium, whatever, exactly the same as a UK worker. These people have been given the right to come over here by our governments and earn a living. I don't have to like it but I'm not going to blame the people who come here.
If you check my posts you'll see that I have said I don't blame the individual coming here in search of a better life, I blame the goverment for allowing it.
I know exactly what this goverment has done and what the EU supposedly is and thats what I've been speaking out against - Jeez I thought I'd been pretty clear on that!
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 11:59
A curse on my computer-illiteracy, can't figure out how to get the 'quote' thing to work.
Porshiepoo, didn't you say it would be best to have a points system for immigration, like the States? And then didn't you say something about Boston being over-run by immigrants? That's in the States, with the points system?
Just wondering, how did you get there and end up here? Between Scotsman in London and Porshiepoo in the States/Caithness, there's a lot of economic migration been going on.
Any other Orgers out there who are or have been economic migrants?
If you check my posts you'll see that I have said I don't blame the individual coming here in search of a better life, I blame the goverment for allowing it.
I know exactly what this goverment has done and what the EU supposedly is and thats what I've been speaking out against - Jeez I thought I'd been pretty clear on that!
What Government are you blaming for taking the UK into the EU Porshiepoo, not this one surely?
Did you vote on the referendum to join the EEC, I voted against entry?
What more can I say....I told you so....or sow what you reaped[disgust]
If you check my posts you'll see that I have said I don't blame the individual coming here in search of a better life, I blame the goverment for allowing it.
I know exactly what this goverment has done and what the EU supposedly is and thats what I've been speaking out against - Jeez I thought I'd been pretty clear on that!
In which case I unreservedly apologise.
I am just annoyed at a lot of people's attitudes. Scotsman hates people coming in and taking Scottish jobs. He doesn't think foreigners should go to other countries and take their jobs.
As far as the government and the law are concerned, England is just as 'foreign' a country to Scotland as Poland is. Do I need to spell out just how hypocritical that is?
[QUOTE=Tubthumper;154117]A curse on my computer-illiteracy, can't figure out how to get the 'quote' thing to work.
Porshiepoo, didn't you say it would be best to have a points system for immigration, like the States? And then didn't you say something about Boston being over-run by immigrants? That's in the States, with the points system?
Just wondering, how did you get there and end up here? Between Scotsman in London and Porshiepoo in the States/Caithness, there's a lot of economic migration been going on.
Any other Orgers out there who are or have been economic migration?. MOST LEFT CAITHNESS BECAUSE THERE WERE NO JOBS!
In which case I unreservedly apologise.
I am just annoyed at a lot of people's attitudes. Scotsman hates people coming in and taking Scottish jobs. He doesn't think foreigners should go to other countries and take their jobs.
As far as the government and the law are concerned, England is just as 'foreign' a country to Scotland as Poland is. Do I need to spell out just how hypocritical that is?
BIT UNFAIR THAT,YOU YOURSELF NO DOUBT GET PAID BY THE BRITISH GOVT!,...OR IS THAT THE SCOTTISH GOVT? PPS we aint heading to poland en-masse are we?
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 12:11
MOST LEFT CAITHNESS BECAUSE THERE WERE NO JOBS!
Most of the people I've known who've departed the county over the last 15 years left to find BETTER jobs or to further their education. Some younger folk even just left to see a bit of the world. Some of them said they didn't like caithness, it was too boring. Funnily enough. quite a few of them have returned now they're older. And quite a few of the ones who have left caithness employment recently to work in the offshore industry, have not moved their homes away. And another funny thing, there is a serious lack of qualified trades staff here, e.g. electricians.
Wonder why the qualified hands in London don't sell up and come back here?
Try 8 - 10[lol]
1. The scottish population is generally very intelligent.
2. They can be very polite and welcoming to others
3. You're reliably misinformed, some do some don't the same as anywhere else.
.
You forgot to say - and hard workers. A large number are plus the above - and they are all already in employment, and if not, will be very shortly.
BIT UNFAIR THAT,YOU YOURSELF NO DOUBT GET PAID BY THE BRITISH GOVT!,...OR IS THAT THE SCOTTISH GOVT? PPS we aint heading to poland en-masse are we?
lol - I left the Navy sometime ago and I now work for an e-commerce firm based in Aberdeen.
And nicely side-stepped. Good to see that you are least aware that Scotland has a goverment. What with it being a seperate country. And you being an 'immigrant' in England.
Most of the people I've known who've departed the county over the last 15 years left to find BETTER jobs or to further their education. Some younger folk even just left to see a bit of the world. Some of them said they didn't like caithness, it was too boring. Funnily enough. quite a few of them have returned now they're older. And quite a few of the ones who have left caithness employment recently to work in the offshore industry, have not moved their homes away. And another funny thing, there is a serious lack of qualified trades staff here, e.g. electricians.
Wonder why the qualified hands in London don't sell up and come back here?
Amen to that! Try getting a qualified tradesman! You've got to wait weeks - and then they don't turn up!
Most of the people I've known who've departed the county over the last 15 years left to find BETTER jobs or to further their education. Some younger folk even just left to see a bit of the world. Some of them said they didn't like caithness, it was too boring. Funnily enough. quite a few of them have returned now they're older. And quite a few of the ones who have left caithness employment recently to work in the offshore industry, have not moved their homes away. And another funny thing, there is a serious lack of qualified trades staff here, e.g. electricians.
Wonder why the qualified hands in London don't sell up and come back here?
ehhh coz theres no jobs! the poles are taking them!never mind polish plumbers on there way,they will do the job for yaa,undercutting your local plumber by half!...good for you,but what about the local plumber and his family?and thats happening on a massive scale in londons building industry!...sub contractor employes poles,pays them half the brit rate,keeps other half for himself! result=poles happy,brits cant get no work..............its happening all over london.
Most of the people I've known who've departed the county over the last 15 years left to find BETTER jobs or to further their education. Some younger folk even just left to see a bit of the world. Some of them said they didn't like caithness, it was too boring. Funnily enough. quite a few of them have returned now they're older. And quite a few of the ones who have left caithness employment recently to work in the offshore industry, have not moved their homes away. And another funny thing, there is a serious lack of qualified trades staff here, e.g. electricians.
Wonder why the qualified hands in London don't sell up and come back here?
That's why I left Tubthumper. I was young and wanted to see some of the world whilst earning a decent wage. The Navy offered me that. And I'll be brutally honest and admit that I'd rather not shelf-stack or work in a cafe in Thurso. I have absolute respect for the people that do those jobs, it just wasn't for me. And I am 100% certian that once I'm a bit older I'll settle back down in Caithness again.
That's why I left Tubthumper. I was young and wanted to see some of the world whilst earning a decent wage. The Navy offered me that. And I'll be brutally honest and admit that I'd rather not shelf-stack or work in a cafe in Thurso. I have absolute respect for the people that do those jobs, it just wasn't for me. And I am 100% certian that once I'm a bit older I'll settle back down in Caithness again.
Order picking at suth bros perhaps?.....
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 12:25
Hey Scotsman, if you're a reliable qualified tradesman you could leave the hated London, come back here to your beloved Wick and find a job fixing Katarina's lights and stuff!
What line of work are you in anyway, you never know there might be vacancies up here nowadays that were never here before.
ehhh coz theres no jobs! the poles are taking them!never mind polish plumbers on there way,they will do the job for yaa,undercutting your local plumber by half!...good for you,but what about the local plumber and his family?and thats happening on a massive scale in londons building industry!...sub contractor employes poles,pays them half the brit rate,keeps other half for himself! result=poles happy,brits cant get no work..............its happening all over london.
Time and time and time and time again. I keep repeating myself to you lad.
THE PROBLEM IS CORRUPTION AND GREED AND LAZINESS IN THE UK.
You are blaming Poles for taking advantage of businessmen who are trying to make more money?
And do you not think that local plumber should ask how a Polish guy can do the same work for half the price? Tradesmen in the UK have been ripping people off for years and years.
Order picking at suth bros perhaps?.....
Why couldn't you have done that Scotsmen? Instead of becoming an 'immigrant' in London?
When I was in the Navy, I did my Officer training in England but I was based in Faslane after that. About a half hour north of Glasgow.
Either way, as I have stated, I did not want to shelf-stack or order pick and neither did you obviously. So what did you do? You looked 'abroad' for a job that suited.
The hypocrasy astounds me.
Hey Scotsman, if you're a reliable qualified tradesman you could leave the hated London, come back here to your beloved Wick and find a job fixing Katarina's lights and stuff!
What line of work are you in anyway, you never know there might be vacancies up here nowadays that were never here before. Im actually working in a freinds bakery in
taunton,somerset,though i do have the luxury/pain of coming back and forth to london.It wont be so funny when poles start undercutting local trades men for jobs,its happening all over london.
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 12:32
ehhh coz theres no jobs! the poles are taking them!never mind polish plumbers on there way,they will do the job for yaa,undercutting your local plumber by half!...good for you,but what about the local plumber and his family?and thats happening on a massive scale in londons building industry!...sub contractor employes poles,pays them half the brit rate,keeps other half for himself! result=poles happy,brits cant get no work..............its happening all over london.
Wait a minute, as we just said there's a lack of trades staff here = jobs to be had. Local plumbers can't cope with demand = jobs to be had.
As far as I know there's a shortage of plumbers in London that's being serviced in part by qualified Polish and other labour, but I haven't heard of much in the way of unemployment and angst amongst qualified 'native' trades staff. and the sub-contractor who you claim is fiddling everyone, is he Polish or British (or English or Scottish)?
If your pipes are burst, do you care who fixes them?
Are the Poles undercutting YOUR job?
Why couldn't you have done that Scotsmen? Instead of becoming an 'immigrant' in London?
When I was in the Navy, I did my Officer training in England but I was based in Faslane after that. About a half hour north of Glasgow.
Either way, as I have stated, I did not want to shelf-stack or order pick and neither did you obviously. So what did you do? You looked 'abroad' for a job that suited.
The hypocrasy astounds me.
Over the last 4 years ive been lucky enough to work in france/germany/palma mallorca and ibiza,this summer was spent in nordlingen,120 km north of munich.Mines was seasonal work,and i had no intentions of staying there.For various reasons i couldnt travel before,and now i can.My last flight to germany was £26.99 on easyjet.Id like nothing better than to come back to caithness,but in reality,there are very few jobs(usually service industry)We had to come south in the eighties to look for jobs,i found many in aberdeen,then edinburgh,and now london.Like many others who left wick,im established here,nice wee job,flat,friends...and im getting too old to be travelling all the time.Though nerja in espana is looking good for next year! photo from ibiza 2004....
[QUOTE=Tubthumper;154142]Wait a minute, as we just said there's a lack of trades staff here = jobs to be had. Local plumbers can't cope with demand = jobs to be had.
As far as I know there's a shortage of plumbers in London that's being serviced in part by qualified Polish and other labour, but I haven't heard of much in the way of unemployment and angst amongst qualified 'native' trades staff. and the sub-contractor who you claim is fiddling everyone, is he Polish or British (or English or Scottish)?
ITS well known thats whats happening in london,go to homebase in 7 sisters rd,north london at 7 in the morn! there you will fund poles waiting for subbies,who offer them a days work.The subbie charges the client full rate,pays the poles half the going rate(plasterer london makes £130 per day).And the net result is my mate sits at home waiting for work!...its called black market economy,and its happening all over london.Do you live in london?
[?. MOST LEFT CAITHNESS BECAUSE THERE WERE NO JOBS!
This is nothing new and nothing to do with Polish workers coming into the UK. My own Father had to leave Caithness in 1946 to earn a higher wage and a better life.
Over the last 4 years ive been lucky enough to work in france/germany/palma mallorca and ibiza,this summer was spent in nordlingen,120 km north of munich.Mines was seasonal work,and i had no intentions of staying there.For various reasons i couldnt travel before,and now i can.My last flight to germany was £26.99 on easyjet.Id like nothing better than to come back to caithness,but in reality,there are very few jobs(usually service industry)We had to come south in the eighties to look for jobs,i found many in aberdeen,then edinburgh,and now london.Like many others who left wick,im established here,nice wee job,flat,friends...and im getting too old to be travelling all the time.Though nerja in espana is looking good for next year!
Amazing. Absolutely amazing. It's ok for you to go all over the world and work where you please but not for the Polish?
To be fair, I was trying to respect you and your opinions up until this point Scotsman. You have lost any respect I may have had for you.
This is nothing new and nothing to do with Polish workers coming into the UK. My own Father had to leave Caithness in 1946 to earn a higher wage and a better life.
So are all the youngsters gonna leave caithness too,too look for work?or should we give what work we have to locals?....
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 12:57
And the net result is my mate sits at home waiting for work!...its called black market economy,and its happening all over london.Do you live in london?
No Scotsman, I don't have that privilege, although I did stay near there while I was an economic migrant. I also worked in Germany, funnily enough, where I was acutely concious of the way that 'gastarbeiter' or 'guest workers' were held in a certain degree of contempt by the locals (hatred in the case of Turks & Italians) who they saw as stealing their jobs, mooching their dole, dragging their communities down etc etc.
You have been lucky indeed to be able to come and go throughout the EU as you please, working in jobs as they became available, going where the sun shines brightest... wish I could have done that but I was too busy developing my career and paying for the house, car, clothes, family etc.
Re the black economy.. I bet a good number of the London subbies who are employing these Poles are fiddling the taxman, possibly even claiming benefit while they arrange the work...
Which country are you registered to pay tax in, Scotsman?
Amazing. Absolutely amazing. It's ok for you to go all over the world and work where you please but not for the Polish?
To be fair, I was trying to respect you and your opinions up until this point Scotsman. You have lost any respect I may have had for you.
may i add,i only worked for employers targeting a brit customer base,seasonal work,the poles are here to stay...i wasnt!I was doing a job only a brit could do,cooking brit food for brit people...on holiday.
So are all the youngsters gonna leave caithness too,too look for work?or should we give what work we have to locals?....
Are these the same locals as you and me who are moving for better jobs? Are these the same locals who are employing Polish people on the cheap? Or are these the locals sat on there backside claiming benefits?
Could you clarify please?
Are these the same locals as you and me who are moving for better jobs? Are these the same locals who are employing Polish people on the cheap? Or are these the locals sat on there backside claiming benefits?
Could you clarify please?
There was no work in wick back in the eighties!,none,zilch,zero,people had to move,and now we have the poles taking valuable jobs that our own unemployed could fill.
There was no work in wick back in the eighties!,none,zilch,zero,people had to move,and now we have the poles taking valuable jobs that our own unemployed could fill.
TWENTY YEARS AGO!
You opened this thread as a problem which was occuring now. So please stop side-stepping and answer the question posed to you.
We have already discussed this in an earlier post in this thread.
Either;
1) The Polish are better qualified for the job than the locals.
2) The employers are corrupt and making a quick buck.
Either way the Polish are not TAKING these jobs. They are being quite happily offered them. There is a massive difference.
It's kind of like a Wicker going to London looking for work and being employed because he was the best man for the job....
:eek:
mums angels
31-Oct-06, 13:08
My husband was fed up with working away from home so applied for a job in wick ..he was offered the job but the pay was not enough to even cover or mortgage so he just got a job offshore instead because the pays better...but he still has to work away which he doesn't like doing...can't afford to move south due to high house prices and way caithness house prices are going we are struggling to find a 4 bedroomed property in our price range .
he says there are lots of poles offshore too and it annoys him that they are taking scots jobs because they are willing to work for less
Scotsman
If the result is your friend is sitting at home waiting for a job to fall in his lap then i suggest he takes the lead from the polish workers and gets off his behind and goes out to find a job. Not going to knock on his door just cos he is english or scottish or pink green or blue is it
There was no work in wick back in the eighties!,none,zilch,zero,people had to move,and now we have the poles taking valuable jobs that our own unemployed could fill.
The eighties was completely different than the situation we have now. And what jobs are there being taken that we have so many unemployed they are queuing up to do?
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 13:15
There was no work in wick back in the eighties!,none,zilch,zero,people had to move,and now we have the poles taking valuable jobs that our own unemployed could fill.
Question 1: When your seasonal work is unavailable, what do you do?
(Note: I seem to remember that the EU reciprocal agreements mean a UK jobseeker can claim benefit in whatever country he's looking for work in, in other words he can claim dole in Spain)
Question 2: When do you put INTO the pot, in other words by paying the equivalent of NI contributions in whatever country you're in?
Question 3: Now you're too old to travel, do you intend to find full-time work in Caithness when you return? If not, please don't bother returning, we've too many unemployed people and Poles here as it is apparently.
TWENTY YEARS AGO!
You opened this thread as a problem which was occuring now. So please stop side-stepping and answer the question posed to you.
We have already discussed this in an earlier post in this thread.
Either;
1) The Polish are better qualified for the job than the locals.
2) The employers are corrupt and making a quick buck.
Either way the Polish are not TAKING these jobs. They are being quite happily offered them. There is a massive difference.
It's kind of like a Wicker going to London looking for work and being employed because he was the best man for the job....
:eek:
Did you ever consider this,i just dont want poles in my country(the uk,scotland,wales,n-ireland).We have enough social/economic problems in uk without adding to it,all the money poles make go back to poland,and we havent got a clue whether that nice polish immigrant that took your job is a convicted criminal or not....call me old fashioned,but i believe charity begins at home.Communities wont even speak to each other in london,theres a healthy distrust by all immigrants in london towards authority,and they break the law at the drop of a hat!.You aint seen nothing till you live amongst it!!...57 people killed in london on 7/7,by british born terrorists,offcourse there familys were immigrants too...and they bit the hand that fed them!...your pc views are falling on deaf ears here my friend..i live amongst it all,caithness is a small local community,let it remain local.
Did you ever consider this,i just dont want poles in my country(the uk,scotland,wales,n-ireland).We have enough social/economic problems in uk without adding to it,all the money poles make go back to poland,and we havent got a clue whether that nice polish immigrant that took your job is a convicted criminal or not....call me old fashioned,but i believe charity begins at home.Communities wont even speak to each other in london,theres a healthy distrust by all immigrants in london towards authority,and they break the law at the drop of a hat!.You aint seen nothing till you live amongst it!!...57 people killed in london on 7/7,by british born terrorists,offcourse there familys were immigrants too...and they bit the hand that fed them!...your pc views are falling on deaf ears here my friend..i live amongst it all,caithness is a small local community,let it remain local.
I have just arrived back having done a bit of useful work to find Scotsman is still on-line writing his/her unbelievable and unacceptable racist crap. He/she surely has no work or nothing better to do. Im sorry for this sad person.
I have just arrived back having done a bit of useful work to find Scotsman is still on-line writing his/her unbelievable and unacceptable racist crap. He/she surely has no work or nothing better to do. Im sorry for this sad person.
another pc person?
or just to lazy to write a proper response?
So are all the youngsters gonna leave caithness too,too look for work?or should we give what work we have to locals?....
You allegedly were a "Local" why are you not up here working then? Caithness is a small county, and cannot support all its population, and some Caithnessians dont want to work, the Polish people do, and my Dentist is Singalese, what difference does the Nationality of a Dentist make, as long as I can get treated. I know I am in a big city and its easier for me, there is nothing I can do to help anyone with toothache in Caithness except offer my sympathy.
Did you ever consider this,i just dont want poles in my country(the uk,scotland,wales,n-ireland)..
Hey ho here we go
We have enough social/economic problems in uk without adding to it,all the money poles make go back to poland,and we havent got a clue whether that nice polish immigrant that took your job is a convicted criminal or not.)..
#Crikey change that to pakistani or west indian or irish and we have the same old rhetoric rolled out that we had twenty thirty forty and fifty years ago. It wasnt true then and it isnt true now.
...call me old fashioned,but i believe charity begins at home.)..
But not racist ignorant and insular?
.
...Communities wont even speak to each other in london,.)..
Communities in london havent spoken to each other since the days of the study of bethnal Green carried out by goldthorpe and Lockwood and the slum clearances of the sixties.
...,caithness is a small local community,let it remain local. Hmm havent we dont the lest not change a hair on the pretty caithness head previously?
help!...the mods are on mee back!...lolllllllll
Did you ever consider this,i just dont want poles in my country(the uk,scotland,wales,n-ireland)..
Ok, so you are rascist. You can wrap it up however you like but you are rascist and a xenophobe.
and they break the law at the drop of a hat.
I'm glad that we aren't jumping to any gross over generilasation though. It's also good that you are providing facts and figures for this.
You aint seen nothing till you live amongst it!!...57 people killed in london on 7/7,by british born terrorists.
Hmmm, ok. So some British people were killed by some British people? I can see how that ties into your whole Polish people in Wick argument.
caithness is a small local community,let it remain local.
Yeah good point. After all the foreigners who moved when Dounreay opened, the US Naval base, the people that run things like the Chineses in the county, K2 in Wick, etc... Caithness is a local place for local people. Of course I'm sure you keep good tabs on this from Spain / Germany / London / wherever (delete as appropriate).
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 13:32
So to sum up:
Scotsman had to leave Wick 20 years ago because he didn't have the skills to get a job locally.
He has spent the intervening time wandering around Europe as a Guest worker, albeit not taking the jobs of locals (including bakery workers in Taunton) and has a 'nice job, nice flat and friends' in a city that is on the brink of anarchy.
We are unsure of his financial standing: it's unclear whether his work is on or off the black market economy, although said economy is one he treats with contempt: casual workers are destroying the god-given right of UK-native plumbers to rip off customers.
Polish emigres are swarming to Caithness and taking the jobs that locals are unwilling or unfit to take up: Said locals, although unwilling to be retrained, take precedence over all other individuals regardless of race creed or colour, even though the mass unemployment cited is a bit unclear ie not that big a problem.
However, the right of Scotsman (the individual that is, not the race) to come and go as he pleases is not available for debate.
He blames the demise of Western civilisation on the Poles, who are here to stay although all their money goes back to Poland.
He basically doesn't want Caithness polluted by itinerant rabble, who wander round the continent picking up such work as is available, they lower the standard of the population.
Have I missed anything?
Ok, so you are rascist. You can wrap it up however you like but you are rascist and a xenophobe.
I'm glad that we aren't jumping to any gross over generilasation though. It's also good that you are providing facts and figures for this.
Hmmm, ok. So some British people were killed by some British people? I can see how that ties into your whole Polish people in Wick argument.
Yeah good point. After all the foreigners who moved when Dounreay opened, the US Naval base, the people that run things like the Chineses in the county, K2 in Wick, etc... Caithness is a local place for local people. Of course I'm sure you keep good tabs on this from Spain / Germany / London / wherever (delete as appropriate).
A "Racist"
By Mark Andrew Dwyer - June 22, 2005
There is a popular definition of "racist" - a conservative winning an argument with a liberal. To its all sarcasm, it tells us how far the use of the noun "racism" deviated from its proper sense - judging a person based on his race and not on his individual skills, talents, and character, or a lack thereof. In this column, I propose a slightly narrower definition of "racist" that seems to capture the actual use of this ubiquitous assault word in heated political disputes:
A racist is a guy who refuses giving away race-based handouts to disadvantaged population that, by and large, lacks the genetic hereditary background necessary to compete in a success-driven, merit-based society.
(To claim that there are no substantial differences between human races is absurd. One doesn't have to look any further than to NBA championships to notice that almost all top basketball players are black - a phenomenon that is, statistically, extremely unlikely to happen should all races be the same. And, indeed, different races, ethnic groups, and nations exhibit different prevailing characteristics. In particular, some were able to develop successful civilizations and cultures that offered their members high living standards and individual freedoms while others were not. Even the allegations that racism, whatever its meaning, is basically a white thing are nothing less than an implicit acknowledgement, by those who make these allegations, that all races are not equal.)
The above, although just a definition, is quite revealing and provides an interesting insight into the strategy of the American Left in their relentless struggle to implement a global system of redistribution of wealth. It also explains why the "racists" are a target of Left's ferocious attacks: they are perceived as a deadly threat to Left's "equal outcome" dogma, usually expressed as the "All people are equal" axiom (not to be confused with "all Men are created equal" of the Declaration of Independence, which is an acknowledgement of equal chance and not an imposition of equal outcome). Indeed, the very existence of wealthy nations and poor nations, statistically correlated to these nations' average IQs by professors Lynn and Vanhanen in their book "IQ and the Wealth of Nations" (Praeger 2002), clearly contradicts Left's theory that given a fair chance, each ethnic group is able to achieve about the same level of socio-economic success, referred to as the "outcome".
From the point of view of that definition, it becomes obvious why the opponents of "affirmative action" (the British term for that is "reverse discrimination") and, more recently, supporters of standardized high school exit exams, are labeled "racists" - they refuse to grant preferential treatment to disadvantaged groups of individuals that, allegedly, suffer from the so-called "disparate impact" (an euphemism for "a lack of the genetic hereditary background necessary to compete), based on membership in a group rather than on the documented extent of individual suffering.
But the most intriguing aspect of our definition of "racist" reveals itself in the area of "migration" (massive and mostly unlawful displacement of population of one country into another) of Latin American peoples (mostly Mexicans), usually referred to as "Latinos" or "Hispanics", into the U.S. The "rationale" employed by the advocates of this "migration" of unprecedented scale reduces to this: all prospective "migrants" should be allowed to "migrate" into the U.S. as they please and claim "their" share of America as long as they can be classified as a disadvantaged population. In particular, Mexicans, just because they are non-white and, therefore, automatically "disadvantaged", should be given free access to America and her wealth, for otherwise it would be racist, in the sense of the above definition, to not let them in.
For some historic reasons and mostly due to the original meaning of that adjective, no one dares to risk being called "racist" so the mass "migration" of Mexicans and other Latinos into the U.S. continues unobstructed despite the fact that the word "migration" is not even mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, never mind any legal basis for it. There is an article in the recent issue of U.S. News and World Report, "Under the Sun: A New Wave of Immigrants Is Transforming Communities Nowhere Near the Border", by Liz Halloran (USN&WR, June 20, 2005, pp. 20 - 25), that paints an alarming picture of demographic, but also cultural and political changes that millions of "migrants" inflict to American society. The photo in that article (see below) taken at a labor camp in Sampson County, N.C., says it all: a pregnant Latino woman plays with three little Latino girls. It doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that all five of them, including the unborn, will add to the swelling "disadvantaged", nevertheless, highly fertile population in the U.S. that only the "racists" refuse giving away the race-based handouts to.
Day-to-day routine at a migrant labor camp
(Scanned from USN&WR)
It should be noted, though, that the way the Mexican "migrants" and their American cheerleaders use epithet "racist" indicates their misunderstanding of this term, or, at least, how the mainstream liberal establishment is using it these days. Their "reasoning" goes like this. Because any meaningful control of America's Southern border will mostly affect Mexicans, as they are the ones who by and large violate it, doing so would have to be categorized as "disparate impact" and, therefore, a case of "racism". The fallacy of this "reasoning" must have been clear for any one except for the Mexicans who perpetuate it. If one accepted it as valid argument then one should also agree that during the last phase of W.W.II (1944-45), the American troops in France, Holland, Belgium, and Germany were involved in large scale racism because they fought exclusively against Germanic soldiers.
Should Hitler cry "Mass racismo!" as many Mexican "migrants" do? He certainly would if he were a Hispanic and not a Germanic leader, who was coached by American leftists and the open-border lobby and not by his Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels. What he would be missing, though, was the fact that Germans were not considered a "disadvantaged population", for one, they were whites, so they were not "entitled" to handouts in a form of territories of their neighbor countries, and certainly not to threatening the U.S. and its commercial and economic interests.
One can multiply examples of this kind of misunderstanding of word "racist" by Mexican "migrants" and their American collaborators. Standardized tests in American schools given in English and not in Spanish are "racist" because a vast majority of all Spanish-speaking students are Mexicans. Apprehensions and prosecution of unlicensed drivers are "racist" because most of those who drive in the U.S. without a valid driver's license are Mexicans. Propositions 187 (in California, derailed by one activist judge) and 200 (in Arizona, currently under judicial scrutiny) that deny certain "rights" and "freebies" to illegal aliens are "racist" because these are mostly Mexicans who are residing illegally in Arizona and California and collecting various handouts there. The list goes on and on and on. If one day, a pro-Mexican organization declared that indiscriminate cracking on fraudulent voters, drunken drivers, gross polluters, identity thieves, street gangsters, and drug traffickers were "racist" then it would be safe to bet a horse and carriage on it that these were predominantly Mexicans that fell into these prohibited categories.
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 13:36
Xenophobe! That's the word I was looking for, I had it down as Xylophobe!
Scotsman posting all that turgid stuff about mexicans doesnt explain anything. if your views are not racist then how would you describe them?
common sense...500,00 bulgarians and romanians on the way!,and you wonder why im alarmned!70 million turkish muslims on the way in 2015...and you wonder why im alarmned...where does it stop...
A "Racist"
By Mark Andrew Dwyer - June 22, 2005
There is a popular definition of "racist" - a conservative.....
And again, ignoring the three other points I made. You answer one of the four points I posed to you with a long winded article about Mexicans.
Amazing.
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 13:47
Conveniently failed to address my questions regarding his tax & NI-paying habits as an itinerant worker.
Would I prefer a decent hard-working Polish family or 'Scotsman' to be my neighbour...? Hmmm...
I've come to the conclusion that there's a very flawed person on this forum and for once it's not me...
Conveniently failed to address my questions regarding his tax & NI-paying habits as an itinerant worker.
Would I prefer a decent hard-working Polish family or 'Scotsman' to be my neighbour...? Hmmm...
I've come to the conclusion that there's a very flawed person on this forum and for once it's not me...
A very sensible person...thats me.
So to sum up:
Scotsman had to leave Wick 20 years ago because he didn't have the skills to get a job locally.
He has spent the intervening time wandering around Europe as a Guest worker, albeit not taking the jobs of locals (including bakery workers in Taunton) and has a 'nice job, nice flat and friends' in a city that is on the brink of anarchy.
We are unsure of his financial standing: it's unclear whether his work is on or off the black market economy, although said economy is one he treats with contempt: casual workers are destroying the god-given right of UK-native plumbers to rip off customers.
Polish emigres are swarming to Caithness and taking the jobs that locals are unwilling or unfit to take up: Said locals, although unwilling to be retrained, take precedence over all other individuals regardless of race creed or colour, even though the mass unemployment cited is a bit unclear ie not that big a problem.
However, the right of Scotsman (the individual that is, not the race) to come and go as he pleases is not available for debate.
He blames the demise of Western civilisation on the Poles, who are here to stay although all their money goes back to Poland.
He basically doesn't want Caithness polluted by itinerant rabble, who wander round the continent picking up such work as is available, they lower the standard of the population.
Have I missed anything?I don't think so. :cool:
That's the best/funniest post I've seen on here in ages. Welcome to the Org. :)
from what i am understanding.. scotsman does not want any outsiders coming into the country and living the lifestyle he has apparently lived for the past 20 years.
only he and other supierior brits are allowed this lifestyle.. and all other peoples must stay in their places living in poverty ..
becasue how dare they want to better their life..
umm also have looked at your profile pic..
sorry mate but you dont look like someone who would be out breaking their back on a daily basis to earn enough to support your family..
oops but thats sterotyping.. and you would never do that to another person would you?
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 15:00
Thanks for the welcome Dr Szin. What happens now? Has he gone away? Are there more like him out there? Are all the Org arguments like that?
Amazing, the power of the Internet, everyone has a voice...
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 15:04
A curse on my computer-illiteracy, can't figure out how to get the 'quote' thing to work.
Duh, click the little box at the bottom that says Quote? :lol:
Porshiepoo, didn't you say it would be best to have a points system for immigration, like the States? And then didn't you say something about Boston being over-run by immigrants? That's in the States, with the points system?
Just wondering, how did you get there and end up here? Between Scotsman in London and Porshiepoo in the States/Caithness, there's a lot of economic migration been going on.
Any other Orgers out there who are or have been economic migrants?
Bless ya! I'm talking Boston In Lincolnshire / England not Boston US. lol.
Golach wrote: Did you vote on the referendum to join the EEC, I voted against entry?
Did I vote to join The European Economic Community? At the age of about 2? Pretty much think NO is a safe bet. :confused
Thanks for the welcome Dr Szin. What happens now? Has he gone away? Are there more like him out there? Are all the Org arguments like that?
Amazing, the power of the Internet, everyone has a voice...
There are always people like that. And to be fair, I welcome them. I'd hate it if everyone had the same opinion as me. Reasoned lively debate is one of the primary keys to this site. Unfortunately, Scotsman is avoiding most of the points put to him and basing a lot of his opinions on obscene amounts of hyporcrasy.
Oh, and welcome to the Org lad ;)
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 15:12
If you're luckky you tremble in anticipation of the next bit of debating, or else you find yourself constantly flicking in and out of the thread unable to turn the puter off for a mere second in case you miss something. lol.
But don't be ashamed, many have been there (probably more than care to admit). :lol:
Has he gone away?
Absolutely no way! Great innit!
Are there more like him out there?
Oh no, no ,no dear, we're all very subtle, patient, world loving individuals who just like to kick up a stink every now and again.
Seriously though, we're ALL like him in one way or another.
Are all the Org arguments like that?
Ssshhhhhhhhhh! Don't say that. The thread will be closed and the subject banned, then we'll all be given minor (or major) infraction points.
This is NOT an argument, it's a healthy debate.
Amazing, the power of the Internet, everyone has a voice...[/QUOTE]
But none quite so loud as the Russian state that is .Org, so just remember that the org has eyes and ears everywhere :eek: , unless you want to be dragged from your bed in the dark of the night and 'removed'. lol
danc1ngwitch
31-Oct-06, 15:13
On and On and On, truth is our jobs are being taken by others not from scotland and why???? Because we are letting it happen, get out and prove we/ u can do the job, Swipe yer hand along the tawny cheek of the outsider ( figure o speech for those sensitive people ) and say to them hey I can do this just aswell as u all's fair .. Oh pst .. by the way don't swipe to hard or that will be u in big trouble lmao..x[lol]
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 15:14
Bless ya! I'm talking Boston In Lincolnshire / England not Boston US. lol.
Sorry Porshiepoo, forgive a newcomer who's only finding his feets.
I wonder, if loads of Bostonians (from the English Boston that is) came here to Caithness, bringing with them sundry bad habits or cooking styles, would you feel the urge to move on?
Or is it Bostonites? Bostonicons?
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 15:30
Sorry Porshiepoo, forgive a newcomer who's only finding his feets.
OK But just this once. ;)
I wonder, if loads of Bostonians (from the English Boston that is) came here to Caithness, bringing with them sundry bad habits or cooking styles, would you feel the urge to move on?
Nah, they can't be worse than mine. lol
Or is it Bostonites? Bostonicons?
Wasn't born there so just plain old British will do for me.
Being as your new here and all you'll probably not of heard of the few rantings that I've posted in the past on this subject - Not nice viewing I have to admit.
At first I'll admit I was probably prejudice - although I couldn't see that - most of my mouthing off seemed to be aimed at Non English speaking immigrants. After a while I realised that Ihad no problem with Americans, Canadians, Australians etc coming here just the foreign language ones.
That made me look at why and I realised these prejudices probably stemmed from a Maltese neighbour we once had that was quite abusive to me and threatened my kids (resulting in me moving), that in turn made me re-think what I thought I felt.
Now the crux of my feelings on this matter is that I do not have a problem with the Polish or Maltese or Bulgarian or whatever neighbour we have as an individual. It's the goverments fault that they started to let in half the world, giving them free access to this country and even when it was pointed out what the consequences would be they refused to take heed. Now, when things can only get worse they still choose not to address the issue.
Limiting the amount of people let in is just one of the problems, dealing with those already here is an even bigger ball game but it does need addressing.
I understand what everyone says about lazy Brits not wanting the jobs, there are lazy gits in every country worldwide, but if the people of Britain were given half the resources (freely) that the immigrants are given then maybe we'd have somewhere to start.
Free education up to University level should be given to every Brit that wants it, and if we pooled immigrant funding to that instead we'd be able to afford it.
Get people off the streets and into the houses they're giving to and building for immigrants. It's the old viscious cycle on the streets - can't get a job as no home, can't get a home as no job. Alot of these people are victims of circumstance just as alot of immigrants and asylum seekers are. All I say is clean our streets first before we clean the streets of other countries.
well said porshie! do all that other lot work at manpower?they only ever seem to post during the day!...ill be in chat tonite at 10.30 if yee wanna sensible debate!,must toodle,building a wee site for someone.
but if the people of Britain were given half the resources (freely) that the immigrants are given then maybe we'd have somewhere to start..
See i dont know what resources you feel that immigrants get that British people dont get?
Free education up to University level should be given to every Brit that wants it.
I absolutely agree but i dont beleive that immigration means this cant be afforded its like the argument Maverick and i had about the NHS. Stopping immigration wont mean more money for the NHS.
Get people off the streets and into the houses they're giving to and building for immigrants. It's the old viscious cycle on the streets - can't get a job as no home, can't get a home as no job. Alot of these people are victims of circumstance just as alot of immigrants and asylum seekers are. All I say is clean our streets first before we clean the streets of other countries.
what do you believe happens to get immigrants a home before anyone else? I dont wquite get that either and where are they building houses specifically for immigrants?
See i dont know what resources you feel that immigrants get that British people dont get?....Tis well know asylum seekers get preferential treatment from local authorities!...
what do you believe happens to get immigrants a home before anyone else? I dont wquite get that either and where are they building houses specifically for immigrants?My housing estate has 354 1 and 2 bed flats,theres about 40 born and bred brits on this estate,the rest are asylum seekers and imigrants.(about 35% of the flats being sub-let by the so called asylum seekers too,staying with relatives,coing in 600 quid a month renting there flats oot...source,my mate..the caretaker,housing benefit paying for there flat too!).If your an asylum seeker in london,and homeless,with say family,you will automatically go to top of housing list ahead of brits!.John prescott says we need 1 million new homes in the south east,why?..coz all the whites are moving outta crime ridden london...they need new homes too.Offcourse most of you posters have little or no idea of whats going on in london,i do...i live here!
My housing estate has 354 1 and 2 bed flats,theres about 40 born and bred brits on this estate,the rest are asylum seekers and imigrants.(about 35% of the flats being sub-let by the so called asylum seekers too,staying with relatives,coing in 600 quid a month renting there flats oot...source,my mate..the caretaker,housing benefit paying for there flat too!).If your an asylum seeker in london,and homeless,with say family,you will automatically go to top of housing list ahead of brits!.John prescott says we need 1 million new homes in the south east,why?..coz all the whites are moving outta crime ridden london...they need new homes too.Offcourse most of you posters have little or no idea of whats going on in london,i do...i live here!
It's amazing that you manage to have such educated views on London AND Caithness at the same time. Especially when you haven't lived in Caithness in 20 years. Why was that again....?
Oh yeah.... You've been living all over Europe to obtain better jobs, earn more money and get a better quality of life! Sounds like a good plan to me.
If your an asylum seeker in london,and homeless,with say family,you will automatically go to top of housing list ahead of brits!.
If i ended up in London with my family and no home i would go to the top of the housing list too. Same for manchester and birmingham and Liverpool.
.
(about 35% of the flats being sub-let by the so called asylum seekers too,staying with relatives,coing in 600 quid a month renting there flats oot...source,my mate..the caretaker,housing benefit paying for there flat too!).!
Source your mate! Well then its bound to be true although why the caretaker would get information from the Housing people as to who is getting housing benefit and who isnt i dont know. This is another example of the I think you are getting benefit so it must be true. Oh and thats illegal too whoever is doing it so has he reported them? If not why not? If he has and nothing has been done about it then why has he not taken it further or is this the same mate that has to sit home all day whilst the "poles" take his jobs?
(Offcourse most of you posters have little or no idea of whats going on in london,i do...i live here! What has that to do with whether polish people are working in sutherland Brothers in Caithness - maybe you knwo whats doing in your housing scheme but im not sure you see any wider than that.
David from Stockport
31-Oct-06, 16:06
I think Scotsman needs to move back up to Caithness and relax more before he explodes - I understand where he is coming from as large areas of England does now resemble a foriegn country and London is like a open sewer it really is a place full of foriegners a lot of which have no love or respect for the country they have chosen to live in . I believe though that the problem lies with a government which allows such large numbers to flood in even though there is not the housing or inferstructure to support them . I did a few weeks working in London 2 years ago ( I work as a store detective ) and everyone we detained was foriegn , when you talk to the police its clear that they have given up becouse they are swamped and the law and courts let them down time and time again . We detain people who just walk in of the street select an item from display walk round for a few minutes then take it to the till and explain in clear English that they want a refund for the said item as it was an unwanted preasent etc , when you detain them of course they make out they speak no English etc so police have to mess around getting interpreters and the like so then ties the officer up for the rest of his shift .
My solution : A) seal our borders so we check everyone entering and leaving the country and dont allow people in without valid ID .
b) set sensible figures each year for emigration based on the numbers that have moved out the previous year and whether or not councils have available housing without jumping the housing list above people who have been waiting for years.
c) Tony Blair says we need immigrants to do the jobs our own wont do - this is i believe the biggest problem facing the UK - we have 5.9 million economicly inactive and this has to change -Labour has made it an attractive proposition to live off the state and there is no incentive to work hard and improve your situation and be responsible for your own actions , we need to bring in a system of workfare like in some American states . We have to put the great back into Great Britian . Any one allowed into this country must be here to work hard abide by our customs and love our country , anyone who wants to sit and do nothing or go around burning the union flag etc can leave.
What has that to do with whether polish people are working in sutherland Brothers in Caithness - maybe you knwo whats doing in your housing scheme but im not sure you see any wider than that.
My thoughts exactly!!!
If i ended up in London with my family and no home i would go to the top of the housing list too. Same for manchester and birmingham and Liverpool. No you wouldnt in hackney,london,immigrants run the housing dept,and look after there own first.
.
Source your mate! Well then its bound to be true although why the caretaker would get information from the Housing people as to who is getting housing benefit and who isnt i dont know. This is another example of the I think you are getting benefit so it must be true. Oh and thats illegal too whoever is doing it so has he reported them? If not why not? If he has and nothing has been done about it then why has he not taken it further or is this the same mate that has to sit home all day whilst the "poles" take his jobs?....Theres no point in reporting them,everyones on the take doon here(apart from moi),and hackney council or the police havent got the manpower to investigate,it falls on deaf ears.
What has that to do with whether polish people are working in sutherland Brothers in Caithness - maybe you knwo whats doing in your housing scheme but im not sure you see any wider than that.
i see the whole picture!..poles are just another piece in the immigration fiasco....listen up and you may learn something squidge...
i see the whole picture!..poles are just another piece in the immigration fiasco....listen up and you may learn something squidge...
I really doubt the legality of some of the comments made by Scotsman on this site but have no doubts about his vile nature and unacceptable views. He is obviously a sad person with a lot of time on his hands. he is disvgrace and I hope that people all around the world reading his comments do not think that we in Caithness and indeed Scotland are like him. He is a very bad advert for our country.
Moderator should think about blocking this thread and this individual immediately.
I really doubt the legality of some of the comments made by Scotsman on this site but have no doubts about his vile nature and unacceptable views. He is obviously a sad person with a lot of time on his hands. he is disvgrace and I hope that people all around the world reading his comments do not think that we in Caithness and indeed Scotland are like him. He is a very bad advert for our country.
Moderator should think about blocking this thread and this individual immediately.
slanderous words indeed!,you know i have a good point,but rather than give us a well thought out response,you choose the easy option!...i word my replys very carefully.Jeeez did i hear anyone giving jack straw a hard time a few weeks ago,when he dared mention viels?...
slanderous words indeed!,you know i have a good point,but rather than give us a well thought out response,you choose the easy option!...i word my replys very carefully.Jeeez did i hear anyone giving jack straw a hard time a few weeks ago,when he dared mention viels?...
No need for a thought out response! Comments from the gutter will always but obvious to fair minded people but you would not know about that!
My point of view is as valid as yours,its called democracy,i tell it as it is...theres no point in burying your head in the sand,we have real problems in uk as regards our open door policy on immigration.The govt needs to do something about it,mind you when the problems reach small town suburbia,then you will see people complaining.I knew before i opened up this thread,that id get called all-sorts,but hey,thats okay,i dont take it personal.Afterall its only the internet,i hear what everyones saying on this thread,but getting personal aint gonna make the fiasco go away is it.
Sorry, I thought this thread was because you had a problem with Sutherland Brothers employing Polish people? Silly me, must have read its title wrong! :roll:
My point of view is as valid as yours,its called democracy,i tell it as it is...theres no point in burying your head in the sand,we have real problems in uk as regards our open door policy on immigration.The govt needs to do something about it,mind you when the problems reach small town suburbia,then you will see people complaining.I knew before i opened up this thread,that id get called all-sorts,but hey,thats okay,i dont take it personal.Afterall its only the internet,i hear what everyones saying on this thread,but getting personal aint gonna make the fiasco go away is it.
c) Tony Blair says we need immigrants to do the jobs our own wont do - this is i believe the biggest problem facing the UK - we have 5.9 million economicly inactive and this has to change -Labour has made it an attractive proposition to live off the state and there is no incentive to work hard and improve your situation and be responsible for your own actions , we need to bring in a system of workfare like in some American states .
This is not true – There are lots of things the labour government have and haven’t done but tackling unemployment and “a life on benefit” is probably the one thing they have done better than anything else. No longer does someone who has a baby at 16 and makes a claim for income support get ignored until that child is 16 – longer if the mother has other babies. No longer does someone on incapacity benefit get left and ignored with the assumption that they don’t want to work at anything cos they are sick. Youth unemployment has fallen and the tax credit system –whilst still not great is significantly better than FIS or Family Credit. Its not perfect but incentives to work are better now than they have ever bee. In addition many many employers cannot find the local labour needed to fill their vacancies - how can people not see this???? Unemployment rates are low 2% in some places.
i see the whole picture!..poles are just another piece in the immigration fiasco....listen up and you may learn something squidge...
It’s a shame you don’t take your own advice Scotsman or you would have seen that you are wrong about unemployment and the reasons why polish people are employed wrong about housing now too.
Councils receive extra funding from the government to make housing available for asylum seekers, and this is usually spent to bring ‘void’ properties (low demand units or property in very poor condition that is not being let) back into use. Many asylum seekers are housed in private accommodation. None of this is paid for out of council tax.
If an asylum seeker proves their case and is accepted as a refugee, they have to find their own housing or wait on the council waiting list just like anyone else. They do not receive any extra points or preferential treatment. Housing is always allocated on need.
you know i have a good point,but rather than give us a well thought out response,you choose the easy option!...i word my replys very carefully.Jeeez did i hear anyone giving jack straw a hard time a few weeks ago,when he dared mention viels?...
What point have you made that is good? And where have you ever given a well thought out response to any of the issues raised or evidence offered? I cant actually find anything you have said that is remotely reasoned or well thought out - it all seems to be simply a list of the reasons why you hate immigrants – hardly good points scotsman
My point of view is as valid as yours,its called democracy,i tell it as it is...theres no point in burying your head in the sand,we have real problems in uk as regards our open door policy on immigration.The govt needs to do something about it,mind you when the problems reach small town suburbia,then you will see people complaining.I knew before i opened up this thread,that id get called all-sorts,but hey,thats okay,i dont take it personal.Afterall its only the internet,i hear what everyones saying on this thread,but getting personal aint gonna make the fiasco go away is it.
Your the one thats getting personal Scotman, how do you know that the Polish workers in Sutherlands don't have Internet access, if I had any Polish blood in me I would be taking this personal, IMO I think you are up to your old tricks as you did when you were on here before.
It’s a shame you don’t take your own advice Scotsman or you would have seen that you are wrong about unemployment and the reasons why polish people are employed wrong about housing now too.
Councils receive extra funding from the government to make housing available for asylum seekers, and this is usually spent to bring ‘void’ properties (low demand units or property in very poor condition that is not being let) back into use. Many asylum seekers are housed in private accommodation. None of this is paid for out of council tax.the taxpayer pays for asylum seekers fullstop.
If an asylum seeker proves their case and is accepted as a refugee, they have to find their own housing or wait on the council waiting list just like anyone else. They do not receive any extra points or preferential treatment. Housing is always allocated on need.so whys my estate full of asylum seekers then squidge?....
What point have you made that is good? And where have you ever given a well thought out response to any of the issues raised or evidence offered? I cant actually find anything you have said that is remotely reasoned or well thought out - it all seems to be simply a list of the reasons why you hate immigrants – hardly good points scotsman[/QUOTE]Your making assumptions,I dont hate anyone,but i can spot an econimic migrant when i see one,we have a serious problem with asylum seekers/immigrants flooding into the uk,many racists from former ex-communist countries too,all i say is,"help our own before we help others",help others at the point of source.Am i to be labeled all sorts of nasty things,just because i belive in caring for our own first....sad pc gone mad.
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 17:11
My point of view is as valid as yours,its called democracy,i tell it as it is...theres no point in burying your head in the sand,we have real problems in uk as regards our open door policy on immigration.The govt needs to do something about it,mind you when the problems reach small town suburbia,then you will see people complaining.I knew before i opened up this thread,that id get called all-sorts,but hey,thats okay,i dont take it personal.Afterall its only the internet,i hear what everyones saying on this thread,but getting personal aint gonna make the fiasco go away is it.
Hey, if you don't like our country why not leave? It seems to me you've added nowt to it over the years, we can do without ill-educated louts like yourself, why not go back to Spain?
And why not answer my question about your financial input into the country you're so passionate about defending? That would be Scotland. Or maybe England?
Am i to be labeled all sorts of nasty things,just because i belive in caring for our own first....sad pc gone mad.
Let's define 'our own'. Before I do, can you please clarify 'your own' Scotsman seeing as you haven't been in Caithness in 20 years?
Anyway. 'Our own'. I have made this statement about 5 times already and I will reiterate it. There is one of two reasons why 'our own' aren't getting jobs in Caithness.
1) 'Our own' are running buisnesses and they are corrupt and employing the cheapest people - which happen to be Polish or....
2) 'Our own' are not up to scratch and the Polish are being offered jobs on merit by 'our own' running businesses.
It makes 'our own' look ace, doesn't it? You would defend 'our own' in these circumstances?
David from Stockport
31-Oct-06, 17:33
Some of you guys living in the far north and as yet not really effected by the problems of mass immigration on such a large scale of numbers as we in England have at the moment may not like what Scotsman is saying but hey it beats threads like -What are you having for tea - and- Cat on road- as the number of replys just goes to show. You deciede what you want to reply to!!
If you dont like his thread start a new one.
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 17:41
Perhaps a fair point, David from Stockport. But I wonder how the house prices throughout England are still going through the proverbial roof, particularly the immigration-plagued South. Is it the asylum seekers or the immigrants, or maybe the Poles who are nabbing all the good stuff and pushing the prices higher? Seems to me that if the place is so bad that no-one would wish to live there, these amazing prices are a bit of an anomaly.
I live in Aberdeen - moved here about 4 months ago - and the Polish influx here is huge. I moved here with very negative thoughts about that and I can now say, after 4 months being here, I have not had a single bad experience with the Polish here.
As an aside, David from Stockport, I have no issue with Scotsman personally. I was the first to reply to him on this thread and I think it is fantastic to see some reasoned debate on the Org. I just think that certain individuals should stop trying to pass off opinion and attitudes as fact.
As I have already said, it would be helluva boring if we all agreed about everything ;)
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 17:44
I agree, this is my first proper foray into the world of online debate (well I dabbled a bit a few years ago) and I've found it tres stimulating.
Re Scotsman, I wonder what the cyber equivalent is of "I hate your point of view but I would lay down my life to defend your right to state it"
In the same way you can fan the flames, has any of the politicians actually realised that the more easy you make benefits available then more will come?
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 18:19
What has that to do with whether polish people are working in sutherland Brothers in Caithness - maybe you knwo whats doing in your housing scheme but im not sure you see any wider than that.[/quote
]
See now this happens on many many threads on this board. You start running out of valid argument against such things so the old 'What has this to do with the thread' starts cropping up.
Conversations roll, it's a fact of human nature, one subject leads to another and those subjects are then widened to include others. It's what makes it interesting.
The problem with a subject such as this is that it's so diverse, there are so many different feelings from so many different avenues.
Re the housing stock: Immigrants do get housing above others that have been on the waiting list for lots longer because rightly or wrongly they're classed as 'homeless'. The fact that they've made themselves homeless is neither here nor there, but that fact is taken into account when Brits are on the list. Not so for immigrants.
The fact is that our housing stock should not be going to anyone other than Brits unless theres more than enough to go around - which there isn't. Immigrants should not be able to enter this country and gain citizenship as easily as they can but they can.
We're getting all the riff raff in from these countries as well because we're basically an open door, they have no loyalty to this country and no respect for it half the time cos they haven't had to do anything to achieve their status here.
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 18:23
Some of you guys living in the far north and as yet not really effected by the problems of mass immigration on such a large scale of numbers as we in England have at the moment may not like what Scotsman is saying but hey it beats threads like -What are you having for tea - and- Cat on road- as the number of replys just goes to show. You deciede what you want to reply to!!
If you dont like his thread start a new one.
Exactly! I've been berated before on another thread for saying that I've seen what it does to a community but unless you see it for yourself, and live it, you really can't understand what effect it actually has.
And because these people aren't really integrated properly into the local community, it causes upset, concern and general angst, and because we have no where to go to address these concerns it's usually taken to the street. I bet those immigrants have all the backup they need though! (Yep, I am assuming I am making an assumption in that last part. Bite me!!!!!!)
Some of you guys living in the far north and as yet not really effected by the problems of mass immigration on such a large scale of numbers as we in England have...
We've had mass immigration for years!!!
[lol]
That's why you can sell a couple of stones in 50m2 of land (a property in need of "some" renovation) for £25k or more. He he.
luskentyre
31-Oct-06, 19:35
help our own first!
How do you define "our own". Only employ British people, or just Scots? Maybe just Wickers? Perhaps we should just limit it to people you're related to? They'd have to be white of course...
That road leads to bigotry, racism and the like. Put simply, the more divisions you place between people - the more trouble you'll end up with.
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 20:01
How do you define "our own". Only employ British people, or just Scots? Maybe just Wickers? Perhaps we should just limit it to people you're related to? They'd have to be white of course...
That road leads to bigotry, racism and the like. Put simply, the more divisions you place between people - the more trouble you'll end up with.
And the alternative is?????????
A free for all for any and every country to help themselves to whatever they want in Great Britain, turn it into the un-united kingdom and watch wile Brits are forced out in favour of immigrants?
I for one have never mentioned colour in all this so I don't see why this would be mentioned - unless of course you have your own deep rooted angst regarding this issue????????
Why call keeping Great Britain full of Brits creating a 'division' ?
peter macdonald
31-Oct-06, 20:01
P.P since you seem to have a fair knowledge of immigration can you give me the figures/answer to the following questions
1 How many English people who have moved up here in the last 10years are not in employment please include 2nd homers and retirees in this???
2 How many English people have moved to Scotland to take advantage of free care for the elderly??
3 How many English people have moved to Scotland to take advantage of free tuition ?
4 Do you know how many English people have been involved in land access courtcases in Scotland in the last ten years??
Perhaps you dont like these questions or perceive me as a racist ?? Well compared to the anti immigrant bile you and your like minded friends have put on this thread I see my self as both even minded and restrained
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 20:08
P.P since you seem to have a fair knowledge of immigration can you give me the figures/answer to the following questions
1 How many English people who have moved up here in the last 10years are not in employment please include 2nd homers and retirees in this???
2 How many English people have moved to Scotland to take advantage of free care for the elderly??
3 How many English people have moved to Scotland to take advantage of free tuition ?
4 Do you know how many English people have been involved in land access courtcases in Scotland in the last ten years??
Perhaps you dont like these questions or perceive me as a racist ?? Well compared to the anti immigrant bile you and your like minded friends have put on this thread I see my self as both even minded and restrained
Why would I percieve you as rascist for asking those questions??? Maybe you actually percieve yourself as this??????
It's people like you that feel the need to keep an England Scotland divide going that causes alot of the ill feeling and rubbish that keep it alive in the youngsters today. THAT is what breeds rascism not people having issues with the amount of non-brits we have taking over.
England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales are all part of the UK and as such these people cannot be classed as anything other than Brits, so your questions are about as necessary as a cows opinion.
I have no problem with the amount of English that have moved up here as I don't with the amount of Scots that have moved down south.
After reading all your posts i feel i must tell you all about the lovely little market town i moved to 10 yrs ago. Once upon a time i could go to any DR / Dentist and be seen with-in 2 weeks and for emergency treatment on the day i phoned,,,,,,,,,not anymore . Our hospitals are over flowing and so are our dentist, houses, places of employment, you name it , everything is now over crowded with Pols, Turks, Lithuanians, cecks, Romanians etc. Every day in the town someone is fighting with someone, at least once a week a driver with no licence, insurance, no mot hits another car and usually just carries on as if nothing has happened. At the weekend a young man out clubbing had his ear bitten of. Yes you've guessed it ...all done by foreigners. Weather you want to believe it or not its a fact, i know i live it EVERYDAY .:mad: PS IM NOT RASIST EITHER .
P.P since you seem to have a fair knowledge of immigration can you give me the figures/answer to the following questions
1 How many English people who have moved up here in the last 10years are not in employment please include 2nd homers and retirees in this???
2 How many English people have moved to Scotland to take advantage of free care for the elderly??
3 How many English people have moved to Scotland to take advantage of free tuition ?
4 Do you know how many English people have been involved in land access courtcases in Scotland in the last ten years??
Perhaps you dont like these questions or perceive me as a racist ?? Well compared to the anti immigrant bile you and your like minded friends have put on this thread I see my self as both even minded and restrained
As a matter of interest, do you know the answers to these questions?
peter macdonald
31-Oct-06, 20:21
You have missed the point completely Im not racist.. Im not anti English ,,,or anti thing else I asked those questions so you could imagine what it was like to be on the end of your diatribes I will add as my wife is not from these Isles you have not got a clue what it is like to immigrate to the UK If you think there are no barriers prejudises mis information and down right desrimination in the UK then you are sadly mistaken
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 20:22
After reading all your posts i feel i must tell you all about the lovely little market town i moved to 10 yrs ago. Once upon a time i could go to any DR / Dentist and be seen with-in 2 weeks and for emergency treatment on the day i phoned,,,,,,,,,not anymore . Our hospitals are over flowing and so are our dentist, houses, places of employment, you name it , everything is now over crowded with Pols, Turks, Lithuanians, cecks, Romanians etc. Every day in the town someone is fighting with someone, at least once a week a driver with no licence, insurance, no mot hits another car and usually just carries on as if nothing has happened. At the weekend a young man out clubbing had his ear bitten of. Yes you've guessed it ...all done by foreigners. Weather you want to believe it or not its a fact, i know i live it EVERYDAY .:mad: PS IM NOT RASIST EITHER .
That be because we let anyone and everyone in.
Like Scotsman pointed out earlier, the streets in the countries these people have come from have been cleaned up no end. Crime is down and the towns have become quiet peaceful retreats for the locals.
Maybe all the immigrants will go back and enjoy that quiet life once they've depleted this country of everything. [evil]
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 20:27
You have missed the point completely Im not racist Im not anti English or anti thing else I asked those questions so you imagine what it was like to be end of you diatribes I will add as my wife is not from these Isles you have not got a clue what it is like to immigrate to the UK If you think there are no barriers prejudises mis information and down right desrimination in the UK then you are sadly mistaken
Make your mind up man. One minute I'm almost rascist, the next I'm unaware of the prejudices here. well, which is it!
Of course I don't have a clue what it's like to migrate here from another country but does that mean I have to agree with it??????
The problem isn't within the people moving here, it's in the goverment that allows them to do it!
peter macdonald
31-Oct-06, 20:28
Rheghead Nope no idea
so are you saying someone of a different nationality shouldn't be allowed to move country?
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 20:33
so are you saying someone of a different nationality shouldn't be allowed to move country?
No. Just that this country should have stricter policies on who we let in :roll:
let see " we let anyone in! remark..
when i came here .. from another country.. yes im an immigrant..
i had a load of paper work to go thru.. had to prove my husband could support us both.. and prove we were legally married.
after a year with my marrige visa.. i had to reaply.. send in legal doc. wage papers and go thru weeks of paper work and red tape before i was granted leave to remain in the country indefinatly.. now im still only a resident.. and not a UK cit.
even though i am now eligible to become a uk cit. the ammount of paper work and the fees of doing it.. just dosent make it worth it in my book.
im not really that bothered with getting my cit. as my whole point of being here is to be with my husband. and my children.
just wondering though.. as its all about helping your own.
as i have lived here for 7 years .. my husband is scottish and my children were born here.. does that make them foreign or are the brits?
or have i tainted them with my unpure bloodline.. even though my grandfather was scottish from the isle of lewis..
i dont really belong..
my fathers family is directly decended from the scarboroughs.. but that dosent count.. we are one person short from linking us as direct desendants to william the conquror.. but nahhh thats not important cause my great great grandparents on both sides immigrated to america... so we are no longer worthy to be here..
i thought i had left all the horrible racism and bigotry behind when i moved here.. but guess it just changed its clothes.. at least they are not lynching people and burning crosses.. yet....
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 20:35
As a matter of interest, do you know the answers to these questions?
Haven't a clue but I'm sure you do?
I'm sure Peter McDonald does too and that he's dying to impress us with this fountain of knowledge and thats why he posted it in the first place.
So go on PM, knock yourself out!!!!!!!!!!:roll:
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 20:42
let see " we let anyone in! remark..
when i came here .. from another country.. yes im an immigrant..
i had a load of paper work to go thru.. had to prove my husband could support us both.. and prove we were legally married.
after a year with my marrige visa.. i had to reaply.. send in legal doc. wage papers and go thru weeks of paper work and red tape before i was granted leave to remain in the country indefinatly.. now im still only a resident.. and not a UK cit.
But not everyone is forced to adhere to this policy of getting in. Unfortunately!
even though i am now eligible to become a uk cit. the ammount of paper work and the fees of doing it.. just dosent make it worth it in my book.
So why feel Great Britain is such a worthy place for yourself to live, to bring your kids up in, educate them etc etc if you can't be bothered to take the one last step that actually makes you a citizen. Don't like it that mich eh!
im not really that bothered with getting my cit. as my whole point of being here is to be with my husband. and my children.
just wondering though.. as its all about helping your own.
as i have lived here for 7 years .. my husband is scottish and my children were born here.. does that make them foreign or are the brits?
If I have ever said or even intimated that Brits who marry foreign nationals are no longer Brits then please point it out to me and I'll grovel in apology.
i thought i had left all the horrible racism and bigotry behind when i moved here.. but guess it just changed its clothes.. at least they are not lynching people and burning crosses.. yet....
Get real! Show me one country that does not have these things!
so are you saying someone of a different nationality shouldn't be allowed to move country?
Im not but look at it like this, what if so many thousand people from ,lets say London, all came to live in wick, used up most of the council housing, were lucky enough to get work and your family had to stay living with you along with their kids because all the housing had been taken up by the Londoners and there was no work for your family available due to the influx of all those Londoners. What if you had raging toothache and had to wait 2 MONTHS just to see a dentist, would you not get fed up with it all ?? Because i do ! My town is now full of non Brits that have now got their own communities, dont want to mix with the likes of us, and yes i have tried to get involved, but also there is a language thing aswell, i cant speak their language, they cant speak mine, but talk amongst themselves and laugh while looking at you obviously taking the mick !
peter macdonald
31-Oct-06, 20:43
PP please read my reply to Rheghead and also try to understand why I asked these questions !!!!! It was to try to get you to think about what you are writing and to whom may be reading your posts I obviously over estimated you intelligence and for that I sincerely apologise
porshiepoo
31-Oct-06, 20:49
PP please read my reply to Rheghead and also try to understand why I asked these questions !!!!! It was to try to get you to think about what you are writing and to whom may be reading your posts I obviously over estimated you intelligence and for that I sincerely apologise
You antagonistic little pip squeak! :lol:
Of course I understand what I'm writing and I also bloomin understand who might read them but what do I do then? Never speak aloud of my problems with this country and it's ethic? Well that would get a country a long way wouldn't it - if we all did that!
If you choose to babble on about what you believe is right or wrong why can you not take the same from someone who has a different opinion?
i didnt mean my husband but my children..
the reason i have never applied for cit. is simple.
im not flush enough to fork out the 268 pounds for the fee for applying for naturalisation.
could afford it if i needed to .. but as i have two toddlers and another one on the way.. its not really at the top of my to do list..
one day when we have less to worry about.. and the kids are a bit older then yes i prob. will get my dual cit.
im still trying to work out how to get the kids US cit. as we have to go down south to even apply!
Our town is full of other nationals and to wait 2 months for a dentist is common practice as is travelling hundreds of miles to see a dentist.
at least you have a choice of dentists down south..
you can get a app. here if you are private.. but they do not take any nhs patients.
Our town is full of other nationals and to wait 2 months for a dentist is common practice as is travelling hundreds of miles to see a dentist.
When i lived up there 2 yrs ago i NEVER had to wait for dental treatment, nor did i have to travel miles and miles. I didnt have to wait for dental treatment here 2 yrs ago but do now. I appriciate times change but as a mother and grandmother i have seen rather alot of changes here in the last 2/3 yrs and its not good . jan x
]
See now this happens on many many threads on this board. You start running out of valid argument against such things so the old 'What has this to do with the thread' starts cropping up.
thats a bit mean Porshie when that was the last of a series of points i had made
Re the housing stock: Immigrants do get housing above others that have been on the waiting list for lots longer because rightly or wrongly they're classed as 'homeless'. The fact that they've made themselves homeless is neither here nor there, but that fact is taken into account when Brits are on the list. Not so for immigrants.
The fact is that our housing stock should not be going to anyone other than Brits unless theres more than enough to go around - which there isn't. Immigrants should not be able to enter this country and gain citizenship as easily as they can but they can.
If you are talking about refugees then how on earth have they made themselves homeless and as i explained already most of the housing for asylum seekers comes from void, empty or otherwise unlettable property - which is why there is such a concentration of asylum seekers on sink estates. Because those properties were unpleasant poor quality and not wanted by others. In addition they are often housed with private landlords. Migrant workers or EC immigrants will not get priority over british people on the council waiting lists - they can join the waiting list just like you and me can but as a large percentage of them are single they will not get priority either.
In addition a homeless refugee family will get no extra points for being refugees therefore they will get no priority over a homeless british family. They will get priority over a single man living at home with his parents but so would hte british family.
We're getting all the riff raff in from these countries as well because we're basically an open door, they have no loyalty to this country and no respect for it half the time cos they haven't had to do anything to achieve their status here. What status? If everyone had an attitude like you and Scotsman and David how are they ever supposed to achieve any sort of status? Certainly not by working hard
You still havent told me what resources you feel Immigrants get that British people dont
as a Foreigner living in Germany I can only say If people don`t get off ther A.... and try something I´m not sorry for them but what gets my backup is when EMPLOYERS fire poeple that have worked for them just to employ an immigrtant at half the wage.... why do you think the poles are arriving in the UK now it is because the Russians and czechs are undercutting their wages here in Germany and here the economy is really crumbling...
as a Foreigner living in Germany I can only say If people don`t get off ther A.... and try something I´m not sorry for them but what gets my backup is when EMPLOYERS fire poeple that have worked for them just to employ an immigrtant at half the wage.... why do you think the poles are arriving in the UK now it is because the Russians and czechs are undercutting their wages here in Germany and here the economy is really crumbling...
Sorry to hear that lad!
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 21:56
People arrive here in Caithness with:
(a) No qualifications, ability or desire to work
(b) Criminal tendencies and/or drug problems
(c) Extended families with learning and/or behavioural problems
(d) Demands on the benefit and housing systems
and they reduce the general well-being of the community. It is indeed a terrible thing, and is dragging our towns down.
But that's enough about some of the Scottish families who've arrived in our communities recently. Now let's talk about Polish workers who arrive here wishing to work hard for a decent wage...
pultneytooner
31-Oct-06, 22:00
People arrive here in Caithness with:
(a) No qualifications, ability or desire to work
(b) Criminal tendencies and/or drug problems
(c) Extended families with learning and/or behavioural problems
(d) Demands on the benefit and housing systems
and they reduce the general well-being of the community. It is indeed a terrible thing, and is dragging our towns down.
But that's enough about some of the Scottish families who've arrived in our communities recently. Now let's talk about Polish workers who arrive here wishing to work hard for a decent wage...
You trying to flame scotsman you naughty person?[lol]
People arrive here in Caithness with:
(a) No qualifications, ability or desire to work
(b) Criminal tendencies and/or drug problems
(c) Extended families with learning and/or behavioural problems
(d) Demands on the benefit and housing systems
and they reduce the general well-being of the community. It is indeed a terrible thing, and is dragging our towns down.
But that's enough about some of the Scottish families who've arrived in our communities recently. Now let's talk about Polish workers who arrive here wishing to work hard for a decent wage...
At whose expense?
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 22:02
You trying to flame scotsman you naughty person?[lol]
What, me? Perish the thought, I was only trying to inject a morsel of agitation into this somewhat relaxed thread!
At whose expense?
At their own - the vast majority of polish migrants dont claim benefits, they work and pay rent, they pay their fare to get here and they pay taxand NI whilst they are here
David from Stockport
31-Oct-06, 22:07
I ve got friends that work for Tesco and staff are up in arms with TESCO at there distribution centres as they are using more and more agency staff (Polish and Lithuanians) where staff used to rely on overtime to make up there wages to a living wage the overtime now goes to the agency staff . I do not believe it is the fault of the immigrants as they are only trying to improve there lot i blame the government for allowing such large numbers to enter , and in my opinion it is mainly the numbers and not the colour or religion of the people that is the problem exept those who have no wish to intergrate or abide by our customs .
As for the person who mentioned English house prices still rising this is not becouse of anything other than demand outstripping supply and if you read the papers you will see that the people buying them are taking out 100% mortgages and are realy overstretching them selves and will soon be in trouble if they are not carefull. The incomers may not be buying houses but they are renting 10 to a house etc from private landlords who buy up the properties that used to be bought by first time buyers . I am in my early 40 s and my basic is £ 13,500 but i work 6/7 days a week in the vain hope things might change , as it costs £ 100,000 at least for a 1 bed flat down here i will let you do the maths if you take it banks like to lend 3.5 times salery , how does that effect you up in Caithness ??? well its always been my dream to live in Thurso or Dunnet and as i cant afford property here i may have to come up there soon - and take houseing from a local !!!!
pultneytooner
31-Oct-06, 22:08
At their own - the vast majority of polish migrants dont claim benefits, they work and pay rent, they pay their fare to get here and they pay taxand NI whilst they are here
I'm quite sure scotsman has nothing personal against polish people but maybe doesn't agree with the numbers that are allowed to come here, nothing wrong with that is there?
At their own - the vast majority of polish migrants dont claim benefits, they work and pay rent, they pay their fare to get here and they pay taxand NI whilst they are hereNot so squidgie dear girl!,thousands of them in london doing black market work!,and while were at it,none of the money they make stays in uk(apart from living costs)It all goes back to poland..You can also travel to uk from poland on www.ryanair.com www.skyeurope.com www.easyjet.com for less than 30 quid!. or www.eurolines.com Squidge here in london,doctors are overloaded with the poles,so are social services housing depts,crime has rocketed,and you dont se where its coming from?...and in your little rosy world all is good.
Not so squidgie dear girl!,thousands of them in london doing black market work!,and while were at it,none of the money they make stays in uk(apart from living costs)It all goes back to poland..You can also travel to uk from poland on www.ryanair.com (http://www.ryanair.com) www.skyeurope.com (http://www.skyeurope.com) www.easyjet.com (http://www.easyjet.com) for less than 30 quid!. or www.eurolines.com (http://www.eurolines.com) Squidge here in london,doctors are overloaded with the poles,so are social services housing depts,crime has rocketed,and you dont se where its coming from?...and in your little rosy world all is good.
You dont know anything about my world scotsman - today or in the past. Tehre are thousands of people doingblack market work all over the UK. None of hte money is it scotsman? None? They dont eat, go out, buy clothes? Seems like you once again are showing that you cant see a wider picture
hasnt london been a cesspool of crime drugs and prostitiution for hundreds of years?
surley the poles didnt turn a pristine wonderous london into a den of iniquity all by themselves?
was jack the ripper polish then?
ohh ohh i know those canibals that were in scotland they were polish wernt they?
ohh what about the psyco.. at dunblane.. he was def. polish.. no no wait.. dont think any of those were..
but never mind.. they were obviously gotten to by the evil polish and romanians.. before hand.. and turned to evil!
ohh and just to stir the pot.. some of the worst people in history were of Royal brittish blood.. wonder if they were secret polish sent to destroy the brittish way of life?
omg! tony blair and george bush must be polish!!!
You dont know anything about my world scotsman - today or in the past. Tehre are thousands of people doingblack market work all over the UK. None of hte money is it scotsman? None? They dont eat, go out, buy clothes? Seems like you once again are showing that you cant see a wider pictureThe vast majority of there money goes back to there home countries!...ask a pole,he will tell you that!!....they aint creating wealth for this country!,coz we aint got nothing to export!.
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 22:21
Here Scotsman, I thought you said they were here to stay, these terrible Poles...How come the money all goes back to Poland?
I seem to remember you had a Polish guy living with you for a while - does that make you a landlord, and were you making a packet out of him?
Anyway, regarding black market economy etc, you never answered my question about where YOU pay tax and what NI contributions YOU make.
Fair makes my blood boil, all these Brits who whinge about benefits fraudsters but cunningly seem to be able to avoid paying anything in themselves. What d'you think, Scotty?
pultneytooner
31-Oct-06, 22:22
was jack the ripper polish then?
!
Aparently there was a polish immigrant (Martin Kosminsk) in the frame.
Here Scotsman, I thought you said they were here to stay, these terrible Poles...How come the money all goes back to Poland?
I seem to remember you had a Polish guy living with you for a while - does that make you a landlord, and were you making a packet out of him?
Anyway, regarding black market economy etc, you never answered my question about where YOU pay tax and what NI contributions YOU make.
Fair makes my blood boil, all these Brits who whinge about benefits fraudsters but cunningly seem to be able to avoid paying anything in themselves. What d'you think, Scotty?
You seem to be getting terribly personal,a clever person remains objective!,as i have,as for my fianances,mind your own buisness!! Consider yourself suitably chastised...
jinglejangle
31-Oct-06, 22:32
Good one tubthumper that made me laugh. I was following the debate closely until you wrote about scotman letting his house out to a polish person - after all his debating he was providing a home for a polish person, taking money from him [which he would have earnt while taking a job from the British] how ironic!!!!!!!! And scotsman saying about staying objective ..... thats just cause he was found out!:lol:
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 22:38
You seem to be getting terribly personal,a clever person remains objective!,as i have,as for my fianances,mind your own buisness!!
Here, you were the one who stated you had a Polish tenant! And as you're the one whinging about Poles whipping money out of the UK, how about when you were working in Germany & Spain? Did you send the cash home? And I think it's a fair point about tax, even just saying you've paid a fair tax or NI contribution would go some way to satisfying my curiosity, bearing in mind that you're very quick to criticise others for daring to seek a coin on these shores..
I've never considered myself clever. The objective has to be to establish why you, a self-confessed random economic migrant who departed these fair Caithness shores twenty years ago as he couldn't find a job, and who has done more than his fair share of grabbing the local coin in other countries has got such a bee in his bunnet about whether Sutherland bros should fulfill their customer's expectations by employing some hard-working Polish staff at fair rates to take posts they can't fill from the local labour pool up here in Wick.
(for those of you joining the thread for this evening's entertainment, the previous 11 pages are quite interesting)
Good one tubthumper that made me laugh. I was following the debate closely until you wrote about scotman letting his house out to a polish person - after all his debating he was providing a home for a polish person, taking money from him [which he would have earnt while taking a job from the British] how ironic!!!!!!!! And scotsman saying about staying objective ..... thats just cause he was found out!:lol:
My polish flatmate was here to show me how to hack and crack computers/passwords/scripts,he also paid his way....
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 22:41
My polish flatmate was here to show me how to hack and crack computers/passwords/scripts,he also paid his way....
I hope that wasn't any kind of illegal activity! And did he pay his way in Zlotys (Euros now I suppose?)
jinglejangle
31-Oct-06, 22:41
Here, you were the one who stated you had a Polish tenant! And as you're the one whinging about Poles whipping money out of the UK, how about when you were working in Germany & Spain? Did you send the cash home? And I think it's a fair point about tax, even just saying you've paid a fair tax or NI contribution would go some way to satisfying my curiosity, bearing in mind that you're very quick to criticise others for daring to seek a coin on these shores..
I've never considered myself clever. The objective has to be to establish why you, a self-confessed random economic migrant who departed these fair Caithness shores twenty years ago as he couldn't find a job, and who has done more than his fair share of grabbing the local coin in other countries has got such a bee in his bunnet about whether Sutherland bros should fulfill their customer's expectations by employing some hard-working Polish staff at fair rates to take posts they can't fill from the local labour pool up here in Wick.
(for those of you joining the thread for this evening's entertainment, the previous 11 pages are quite interesting)
Scotsman I think you should go quietly now - you have been found out!!!!! :lol:
Here, you were the one who stated you had a Polish tenant! And as you're the one whinging about Poles whipping money out of the UK, how about when you were working in Germany & Spain? Did you send the cash home? And I think it's a fair point about tax, even just saying you've paid a fair tax or NI contribution would go some way to satisfying my curiosity, bearing in mind that you're very quick to criticise others for daring to seek a coin on these shores..
I've never considered myself clever. The objective has to be to establish why you, a self-confessed random economic migrant who departed these fair Caithness shores twenty years ago as he couldn't find a job, and who has done more than his fair share of grabbing the local coin in other countries has got such a bee in his bunnet about whether Sutherland bros should fulfill their customer's expectations by employing some hard-working Polish staff at fair rates to take posts they can't fill from the local labour pool up here in Wick.
(for those of you joining the thread for this evening's entertainment, the previous 11 pages are quite interesting)
You sound like you work for sutherland brothers?...is that your big capitalist mercedes i see up younder in airport land?...i notice youve only joined recently.All your flock were quick to wellcome you too the board earlier i see!...office staff perhaps?
ummm .. just wondering .. are you not incriminating yourself scotsman.. as hacking is illegal?
pretty sure stealing passwords.. and bypassing security is not a law abiding thing to do..
ummm .. just wondering .. are you not incriminating yourself scotsman.. as hacking is illegal?
pretty sure stealing passwords.. and bypassing security is not a law abiding thing to do..No...i said i was learning,you need to hack something first .....duhhhhh
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 22:47
[quote=scotsman;154582is that your big capitalist mercedes i see up younder in airport land?...i notice youve only joined recently.All your flock were quick to wellcome you too the board earlier i see!...office staff perhaps?[/quote]
Found out, blast!!! Well at least the Merc's paid for and legit!
Joking aside, no I don't even know who Sutherland Bros are, and yeah I only joined today. I've enjoyed it so much I don't know how I managed to survive before now.
As for the flock, I guess they're just nice people who can spot a genuine concerned UK citizen (who keeps on the right side of the law and pays his way) when they read his rants!
jinglejangle
31-Oct-06, 22:48
You sound like you work for sutherland brothers?...is that your big capitalist mercedes i see up younder in airport land?...i notice youve only joined recently.All your flock were quick to wellcome you too the board earlier i see!...office staff perhaps?
wrong....I am not office staff or flock - I just had to laugh at how hypocritical you are!:lol:
well you did say he was there to show you how.. so one would assume that the reason you learn to do something is so that you can.. well do it.
*grins*
goodness you have an made an artform of backpaddling..
are you sure your not in the gov. or a lawyer? *grins*
well you did say he was there to show you how.. so one would assume that the reason you learn to do something is so that you can.. well do it.
*grins*
goodness you have an made an artform of backpaddling..
are you sure your not in the gov. or a lawyer? *grins*
Nope,im just an ex weeker,with family still there,cheesed of that a local employer who has operated for over 100 years on the backs of cathnesians,has chosen to employ computer grad polish order pickers,before his own.
Lets get back on topic now...your point was?
jinglejangle
31-Oct-06, 22:58
Nope,im just an ex weeker,with family still there,cheesed of that a local employer who has operated for over 100 years on the backs of cathnesians,has chosen to employ computer grad polish order pickers,before his own.
Lets get back on topic now...your point was?
Scotman I understand what you are saying that you want to ensure that your family are in jobs so I have copied the job advertisement - I will be most interested to see how your family get on in applying. Good luck.
Order Pickers - Sutherland Brothers, Wick
Full time order picker vacancies exist at our busy depot in Wick.
Applicants should be hardworking and able to work as part of a team.
Hours of work - 4.30pm to 12am (Sunday to Thursday)
Previous applicants are being considered for these vacancies - no need to re-apply
To apply for this post please send your CV to evan@suthbros.co.uk or via post to Warehouse Manager, Unit 11, Airport Industrial Estate, Wick, KW1 4QS.
www.suthbros.co.uk (http://www.suthbros.co.uk/)
Tel - 01955 605070
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 23:02
Scotsman: Maybe, just maybe, you could return to Wick and set up a computer-oriented service centre in one of the vacant office suites at the enterprise park. HIE and CASE are just desparate for passionate people to start businesses there, you'd be doing your fellow Caithnessians a great service and your computer skills would gel nicely with the standard of IT skills generally available up here. I'm not sure if you'd get away with refusing to employ Poles however.
That is if you could tear yourself away from your 'nice flat, nice job, friends' in that welcoming and happy place London (swarming as it is with dissatisfied immigrants and elements determined to overthrow the native british population and burn the queen).
Or perhaps it's working in your part-time job in a friend's bakery in Taunton, Somerset that really ties you down? Or maybe the appeal of 'Nerja in Torremolinos' is just too much to refuse...
My family all have jobs thank you very much!...judging by your devastatingly witty replys ace,i fear it is you who are more qualified to apply for the order pickers jobs,than my family!!!....
Scotsman: Maybe, just maybe, you could return to Wick and set up a computer-oriented service centre in one of the vacant office suites at the enterprise park. HIE and CASE are just desparate for passionate people to start businesses there, you'd be doing your fellow Caithnessians a great service and your computer skills would gel nicely with the standard of IT skills generally available up here. I'm not sure if you'd get away with refusing to employ Poles however.
That is if you could tear yourself away from your 'nice flat, nice job, friends' in that welcoming and happy place London (swarming as it is with dissatisfied immigrants and elements determined to overthrow the native british population and burn the queen).
Or perhaps it's working in your part-time job in a friend's bakery in Taunton, Somerset that really ties you down? Or maybe the appeal of 'Nerja in Torremolinos' is just too much to refuse...Actually i am quite good with computers,took 6 years though,self taught.I can fix almost anything on a computer,apart from building mother boards.PC world would charge yaa 100 quid to put in a dvd/rw into your slot at the back of your hard drive,id do it for 50 quid!...poles like most europeans/russians are known for there savvy computer skills,most of the spam email/viruses and bank phising scams are perpetrated by eastern europeans.Its well known that russian computer guys are the best hackers in the world.I did get offered a wee flat in wick,last year,but i didnt have the dosh then to facilitate a move,im only a good ametuer on comps,have no qualifacations,so my job opportunities are limited.Im single too...so i can come and go as i want..
newlabeluk
31-Oct-06, 23:13
My husband works for a national electrical distributor and they used an agency last year for their peak sales time, most of the workforce was foreign. in this area the poor s travelled 2hrs each way daily, got min.wage but the agency charged £12p/h and didn't pay overtime rates. This year after some negotiation by the union the permanent work force has to be offered the overtime first before they can bring in temps. A few of last years temps made it on to the permanent workforce and put up with a lot of crap from people. My husband is a full of admiration for them.
Yes they take Jobs but these are jobs our locals don't want to do 'cos the hours are long and this time of year has a holiday ban in place (even if they aren't going away the attitude is you don't tell me when i can holiday) and some of the permanent workforce want shooting.
One bloke is full of BS and fancies himself a great catch......so far he has managed to get 3 girls the sack....how? he comes on all nice and friendly, chats to them, helps them with their english and because they are so polite they don't say go away you're bothering me....then their pick rate starts to drop as they try to avoid him and eventually they aren't making target so they get let go.... and he thinks it's a great game!
I thought the Poles who are coming here were doing so to replace all the Scots who are leaving Scotland to take work elsewhere and to help provide for the ageing Scots population left behind.
Declining population, Scots of working age fleeing the Country to take better paid jobs in other Countries, not enough workers left behind to keep the economy on an even keel.
Thank Heaven that there are people willing to come here work for the benefit of Scotland.
Don’t blame me, that is the position of our elected representatives.
Oh yes, and the same complaints were being made about poles fifty years ago so there’s nothing new there.
[QUOTE=newlabeluk;154616]My husband works for a national electrical distributor and they used an agency last year for their peak sales time, most of the workforce was foreign. in this area the poor s travelled 2hrs each way daily, got min.wage but the agency charged £12p/h and didn't pay overtime rates. This year after some negotiation by the union the permanent work force has to be offered the overtime first before they can bring in temps. Whats wrong with looking after your own?...like a mother cares for her child!
Tubthumper
31-Oct-06, 23:30
I think the key phrase here relates to locals not wanting the jobs cos the hours are long etc: is it because they're lazy? Also what is the umemployment rate for locals like down there?
And what would happen if the employer was to insist on local employees? Prosecution? Unlikely. Higher prices? Very much so, to compensate for having more staff producing less per head. Company out of business? Possibly.
Look after your own, like a mother? Yeah, by putting the whole company down the tubes & throwing the whole workforce out of work.
Well said aceofhearts, I notice a definate lack of response by the Polish knockers offering to apply for those jobs and those hours, I believe scotsman mentioned origionally that there were 3 Polish workers working there. IMO that is not going to make a great difference to the economy of Kaitness
Scotman I understand what you are saying that you want to ensure that your family are in jobs so I have copied the job advertisement - I will be most interested to see how your family get on in applying. Good luck.
Order Pickers - Sutherland Brothers, Wick
Full time order picker vacancies exist at our busy depot in Wick.
Applicants should be hardworking and able to work as part of a team.
Hours of work - 4.30pm to 12am (Sunday to Thursday)
Previous applicants are being considered for these vacancies - no need to re-apply
To apply for this post please send your CV to evan@suthbros.co.uk or via post to Warehouse Manager, Unit 11, Airport Industrial Estate, Wick, KW1 4QS.
www.suthbros.co.uk (http://www.suthbros.co.uk/)
Tel - 01955 605070
pedromcgrory
01-Nov-06, 00:27
Well said aceofhearts, I notice a definate lack of response by the Polish knockers offering to apply for those jobs and those hours, I believe scotsman mentioned origionally that there were 3 Polish workers working there. IMO that is not going to make a great difference to the economy of Kaitness
theres more than 3 why dont u ask sutherland brothers to reply with how many polish employees there are?
What's the problem with them employing Polish workers or any other Nationality for that matter?
What's the problem with them employing Polish workers or any other Nationality for that matter?
Charity begins at home....
theres more than 3 why dont u ask sutherland brothers to reply with how many polish employees there are?
For crying out loud would someone see the bigger picture?
Scotsman's argument essentially boils down to the following....
'We' should be looking after 'our own'.
We.
Let's consider who 'we' are. 'We' in my opinion are a population that would be in dire state if it wasn't for various other races in various other circumstances. The Yanks in WW2, the Indian and Carribean doctors and nurses who joined the NHS in the 50s and 60s, hellfire, the Vikings in the 5th Century if you want to be obtuse and go back far enough. What does it mean to be British? I think a very large part of being a Brit is to accept the hugely diverse racial background we come and who make us what we are as a people.
So who are 'our own'? The unemployed who can't get a job over there Eastern European counterparts? The employers who jump at the chance of Eastern European labour? The people so oblivious to the many nations, creeds, colours and races that have made Great Britian great?
I can honestly say, I look back at this comments others have made on this thread and feel ashamed to be British, Scottish and Caithnessian. I never thought I would say that.
For crying out loud would someone see the bigger picture?
Scotsman's argument essentially boils down to the following....
'We' should be looking after 'our own'.
We.
Let's consider who 'we' are. 'We' in my opinion are a population that would be in dire state if it wasn't for various other races in various other circumstances. The Yanks in WW2, the Indian and Carribean doctors and nurses who joined the NHS in the 50s and 60s, hellfire, the Vikings in the 5th Century if you want to be obtuse and go back far enough. What does it mean to be British? I think a very large part of being a Brit is to accept the hugely diverse racial background we come and who make us what we are as a people.
So who are 'our own'? The unemployed who can't get a job over there Eastern European counterparts? The employers who jump at the chance of Eastern European labour? The people so oblivious to the many nations, creeds, colours and races that have made Great Britian great?
I can honestly say, I look back at this comments others have made on this thread and feel ashamed to be British, Scottish and Caithnessian. I never thought I would say that.
Yet when 500,000 poles flood the uk(govt estimated (33,000),hundreds of thousands of romanians and bulgarians coming on jan 1st,and 70 million muslims due from turkey in 2015,and we havent got problems?..services overloaded,crime,social strife etc,all happening in london as i speak.Did you know after 2 years of being here,the poles are entitled to all the benefits the brits get?...child benefit/housing/unemployment...just think if 500,000 all sign on at once!Your out of touch up there in aberdeen midi,even my black brit friend who works for hackney council,realises all this uncontrolled mass immigration is bringing mass problems with it!......address my points please.
theres more than 3 why dont u ask sutherland brothers to reply with how many polish employees there are?
I stand corrected, but whats the difference, would YOU, work those hours?.....If not ....what more need I say
i have reason to believe that the poles working at sutherland bros were offered the positions before they went out to the general public as vacancies . this seems to be a common work practise all over the country.It seems that many positions are filled by poles before the position is advertised to be filled. no wonder people are getting fed up with poles and such like. What is the point of applying for a job when the job is all ready taken by a pole who is still in poland and is told by an agency we have a job for you in caithness just get your backside over there . No interview no references just start monday. Local people have no chance of employment when the deck is stacked against you....
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