Green Taxation.

[Seabird]

The government are pushing for green taxes.
This is so this little country of some 60 million people can save the world from global warming.
Fuel prices will be allowed to rise, this will effect all thoes who can't use public transport to get to work.
Road tax rises on gas guzzling cars, i've no objection to that but it seems they intend to try and tax as many as possible off the road.
Owning a car will be the privilage of a select few wealthy people.
Cheap flights have got to stop to cut down on the number of planes in the air.
Only the rich will again be able to pay the price of a plane ticket.
The difference it will make to global warming is the same as placing a new washer on a tap with a drip, when the the pipe supplying the tap has a gaping great hole in it.
The USA, CHINA, INDIA will continue to increase thier CO2 levels, Brazil and Indonesia will still burn their tropical forest.
And we in Britain will be the poor martyrs trying to show the world how it can be saved.
And the government think you out there will accept these increases in taxation, even though any pay rise received of late has't covered the increase in the cost of living.
They must be living in cloud Cockoo land, oh! then again are't most politicions earning a heck of a lot more money than us meanials.
It makes me shake with anger.

[Rheghead]

I believe the biggest transport sector that contributes to GW is shipping and air trafficking freight. Every time we buy out of season veg and fruit etc we contribute to GW disproportionately. Why not do something constructive like taking an interest in our own seasonal veg and this will reduce transport costs.

I think taxing gas guzzling 4X4s is the wrong way to go. It descriminates against people in rural areas and will put up the price of food. Anyway, how do they class a vehicle as a gas guzzler? 20mpg? 30mpg?40mpg? Seems a bit daft really because if they are gas guzzlers then they have to be subject to more tax anyway. We all know that taxing something does not curb behavior, we just have to look at cigarettes and alcohol to work that one out. In the US, their gas is about the third of our prices, but we do the same amount of mileage as them, so there is another example of how shambolic taxation is at curbing behavior.

What we need is tax incentives on local produce, national holiday destinations, higher import duty on EU and other foreign goods, better immigration control and smarter ways to control electricity use in the home. Scrapping road duty for biofuels to make it more attractive. Selective VAT exemptions on items that would cut fuel emissions, eg low energy light bulbs etc.

Green taxes only fill the treasury coffers to make money to spend on an evermore burgeoning welfare state.[evil]

[JAWS]

Sounds very much like a Government desparate to find excuses to grab more and more taxes off us whilst pretending it's for our own good.

When Governments start giving 90% Grants for people to fit Solar Panels, Mini Turbines and many of the other such devices which would help massively in reducing the need for power stations using Carbon Fuels I will believe that they are serious about reducing Carbon Emissions and not just playing to the Gallery or using it as an excuse for grabbing more in Tax.

I notice there is never any mention of the massive amount of energy used by Air Conditioning Systems which, with our climate, is almost totally unnecessary. Many years ago a very costly and complicated system for cooling buitling was developed. It worked by a sophisticated method called "Open that window".

I wonder how much energy will be wasted this winter with street lights blazing away for nearly 18 hours every day?

[mareng]

Seabird is absolutely correct, and the government will now work on us so that all these green taxes will seem acceptable when they force them in.

Good for B&Q for selling home wind turbines.................... along with patio heaters!

Funny how the government doesn't ban patio heaters - how obscene are those things?

Where is Guy Fawkes when we need him?

[Fraser Macleod]

Whilst I agree with the opnion of this thread that green taxes are a very poor response to the current situation of global warming, I have to disagree with Seabird's point that in a nation of only 60 million people we cannot hope to do anything on a global scale, whilst its true that the united kingdom alone could not stop the downward spiral of the climate, we should still try, if everyone turned round and said well we dont have the largest population then the only country that wouldnt have an excuse is China, We shouldnt be attempting to reduce global warming because we think it will stop because of us, we should simply be doing it because it matters and is important, regardless of population size

[Ann]

Yes, we all have to do our bit. And the big businesses as well and that includes the government etc., showing us the way by seriously addressing the problem that is with us NOW, not seventy years down the line and nothing for us to worry about.

This is everybody's problem and if we want our grandchildren to have as comfortable a life as we have had, we must act now.

How many times do you go into a shop in your outdoor clothes and find that it is uncomfortably hot with salespeople wearing short sleeves? I know, not everywhere but it does happen and the bigger businesses are more usually the culprits.

Same with some offices; overheated and, what with their computers, copiers and other electrical necessities, very uncomfortable and unhealthy places to work.

I agree that patio heaters are obscene; if it is that cold, go inside. If you want to be outside, put on plenty layers, hat and gloves and warm footwear. It is so refreshing being outside even when it is cold and nowadays we have the cosy clothing to deal with it. And it is so much healthier!

We have become complacent in our use of energy what with leaving electricity draining, heating our houses too high instead of putting on a jumper. How many people go around in a t-shirt, bare feet and the heating on high? Apart from from wasting precious energy, our household bills would reduce drastically.

May I throw out a challenge to brave orgers (for a month) to turn down their heating, only use the car when absolutely necessary and use electrical goods sparingly. E.g., dry washing outside, on an airer and on radiators. Then check your bills for reductions. It is good fun having a "lean" month and very satisfying when you save some money.

Knowing we can turn the heating up, use our helpful gadgets etc., when ever we can, makes having a lean month an easy thing to do. I would rather do these things now than rob Mother Earth of the rest of her bounties.

[Dreadnought]

What's the betting that once Chairman Blair gets us all out of our cars and on our bikes (not a bad thing, I love cycling), he will then slap on a 'cycle tax'?

[concerned resident]

No matter what we do, we are a small country and it will make no differance, this is just a rip off to pay for Tony's wars, i find it hard to understand how the British public are so stupid to listen to this rubbish. I am sorry to say, i think this is mainly for the females, who appear to swallow this rubbish, hook line and sinker. I just hope there will be some people about to show what they think of the green tax, at the elections. I often wonder if most of the country are smoking drugs, and there are only a few of us left, who can still see that this is just a TAX.

[mareng]

No matter what we do, we are a small country and it will make no differance, this is just a rip off to pay for Tony's wars, i find it hard to understand how the British public are so stupid to listen to this rubbish. I am sorry to say, i think this is mainly for the females, who appear to swallow this rubbish, hook line and sinker. I just hope there will be some people about to show what they think of the green tax, at the elections. I often wonder if most of the country are smoking drugs, and there are only a few of us left, who can still see that this is just a TAX.

Not sure if I would endorse the strict "female" attribute................ but in general - I agree.

Check out this bunch of opportunists/Con-artists (delete where applicable):

http://www.carbonneutral.com/shop/index.asp

"Carbon-Neutral Weddings" Brilliant!

[Dreadnought]

i find it hard to understand how the British public are so stupid to listen to this rubbish.

This comes from 30 years of dumbing down of the public. Crap politically correct schooling where everyone gets a 'pass' so no-one feels a failure. I also despair, especially when you think more people voted for reality TV polls this year than voted in the last general election... and that is EXACTLY how the politicians want it, a dumbed down, unthinking populace, sitting in happy ignorance at home in front of their TVs struggling to comprehend anything more complicated than 'who goes, you decide'. [disgust]


I am sorry to say, i think this is mainly for the females, who appear to swallow this rubbish, hook line and sinker.

Global warming is a fact, it isn't a case of 'swallowing this rubbish', and it certainly isn't a female only way of thinking. Down here in the south some people have air-conditioning as a luxury, but I know others who have it as a necessity: they have health issues which makes humid high temperatures life-threatening. I personally don't have AC because I live in a military built Victorian building which was designed to be warm in winter and cool in summer (clever people those Victorians!:) ), but I understand why many do have it. As for 'just open a window', thats fine if there's a breeze but makes no difference at all when there is none.

Taxing this little island will not stop it. All it will do is make Tony Blair feel he has actually achieved something other than taking this nation to war illegally, aiding and abetting the creation of the world's largest terrorist training camp in Iraq, and being the worst Prime Minister this nation has ever had.
I worked most of my life in the car industry, mostly in Ford's Dagenham plant, as a consequence I am a lifelong Labour voter, but I will be damned if I will vote Labour while Blair and the rest of his corrupt, lying, untrustworthy, backstabbing cabinet have their snouts so unashamedly in the trough.

[Bobinovich]

May I throw out a challenge to brave orgers (for a month) to turn down their heating, only use the car when absolutely necessary and use electrical goods sparingly. E.g., dry washing outside, on an airer and on radiators. Then check your bills for reductions. It is good fun having a "lean" month and very satisfying when you save some money.

I'll confess to being one of the moaning minnies on a recent thread complaining how our electricity bill was £150 per month!!!

However, with our delightfully unpredictable Caithness weather, we found that our outdoor whirlygig was so rarely used that we ripped it out and utilised the space for something else. We resorted to using an electric dryer all the time - Winter & Summer (boo, hiss)!

When our dryer died on us recently we quickly ordered up another - we could not imagine living without it. But since then we've been loading up an airing horse and drying up to 2 loads simultaneously in front of a storage heater - thus getting double the use out of the heat.

So I'm going to accept your challenge Ann! When the new dryer arrives I'll use it only to soften our drying off (15 minutes tops) and will try and persuade Mrs Bob to see what the difference in our electric turns out to be.

[Whitewater]

The "Green Taxes" are just an excuse to collect more revenue. I agree that we are all (the whole world. Britain is just a small part of that) putting far too many carbon deposits into the atmosphere, and this perhaps is having a small effect on global warming. In my distant past I remember being at summer school at the Open University, we had a guest lecturer reporting on the holes in the Ozone layer in Antartica and it was suspected that Carbon deposits were causing them. Recently I read that these holes have now been repairing themselves. We are now probably putting more carbon into the atmosphere than we were then. Was the carbon to blame? I don't know enough about the subject to answer that.

The thing we have to remember is that climate change is inevitable, it has taken place since the world began. In more recent times when the Norman invasion took place in 1066, we were growing grapes out in the open and producing our own wine. There were Viking settlements in Greenland, and further west on Nova Scotia. During the 14th century we had a mini Ice Age which wiped out the settlements in Greenland (evidence has been found to prove that) and created havock in the northerly parts of the Northern hemisphere of the planet.

During time (Geological Time) the planet has changed many times, we have had pole reversals, climate change etc. which created problems on the planet so devastating that we cannot even imagine the consequences.

Climate change is inevitable, green taxes or not, they will not change that. We just have to hope that this time round it is only going to be a "mini" change. Otherwise there may not be much left of mankind.

I read somewhere that we are the third civilisation on planet earth, I wonder what happened to the other two? Climate change perhaps?

[Ann]

"So I'm going to accept your challenge Ann! When the new dryer arrives I'll use it only to soften our drying off (15 minutes tops) and will try and persuade Mrs Bob to see what the difference in our electric turns out to be."

Good luck Bob; hope you see a downturn in your bills! ;)

"Climate change is inevitable, green taxes or not, they will not change that. We just have to hope that this time round it is only going to be a "mini" change. Otherwise there may not be much left of mankind."

Whitewater; I agree that the earth evolves no matter what we do but I still think we are too greedy with it's resources. As for the tax, yes, it's just another excuse to glean money because they know we won't cut back on our luxuries now that we have them.

I still think that we should have a "lean" month now and then and maybe we would appreciate what we have got even more. I personally do it because it saves my meagre pension!.... all together now..... awwwww...... ;)

[sandy01]

The biggest cause of glogal warming is, there are too many people in the world, the human race is breeding like rabbits, but there are predators that cull the rabbits, medicine is keeping many people alive that would not have survived a few years ago.
Nature will have its way, it will find a way to thin out the human race, be it a asteroid, aids or some other as yet unknown ailment.

ps that is if some idiot president or prime minister doesn't press the red button first and wipe out the human race.

[obiron]

fair and well green taxes but im thinking why our country. its great that the government wants us to be more green but surely every country in the world should be doing the same thing.

[Seabird]

From the reports on the TV and in the papers it looks as if the UK and Europe are the only people taking Global warming seriously.
It seems we can go the way of the USA, and except it and carry on regardless.
Or we can follow Blair and do what we can, be poorer, and still suffer the consequences.

Although the situation is'nt the same but it does remind me of the USA attitude of 1940 when they decided to sit on the fence and make money while Europe stacked up debt.
We are still paying the USA for those loans to this day.

The large Asians countries (China, India)want to see the large economies broken because they will benefit, they also want the good life they have seen the West enjoy for decades.
The cost in human life means nothing to a lot of these governments.
The USA are aware of this and are worried about their competiveness with the rising economies if they take action on global warming

I'm sorry to say it looks as if we are doomed to World poverty, and disasters on an unpresidented scale.

The one thing you will always find strong within the human animal that is GREED and SELFISHNESS this as led us to this World crises.
We are all guilty of it.
We all want more money, better car, bigger house, holidays in exotic places.
Is anyone on the Org in all honesty been different during their life time?

[Whitewater]

[QUOTE=Ann;

I still think that we should have a "lean" month now and then and maybe we would appreciate what we have got even more. I personally do it because it saves my meagre pension!.... all together now..... awwwww...... ;)[/QUOTE]

I think you are right with that, it will do us no harm, I myself am attempting to have a few lean days, but that is just to loose some weight since I returned from holiday. Your lean days regarding power are a good idea and a challenge for all of us, we will give it a go at home and I will report back in a week on what we done and if we missed out on anything.

One of the main causes of increased levels carbon dioxide in the air is the removal of the rain forests in South America (I forgot to mention that earlier) They have now cleared thousands of sq miles of forest to release land for farming and for the money they can get for the wood. When I was at school we were told that the South American forests were the lungs of the planet as they converted the carbon dioxide back into oxygen. The ability of the planet to do this has now been greatly reduced. I believe that this deforestation has more to do with the high levels of CO2 in the atmosphere than any of the emmitters which are in use around the world daily.

[Cedric Farthsbottom III]

I think you are right with that, it will do us no harm, I myself am attempting to have a few lean days, but that is just to loose some weight since I returned from holiday. Your lean days regarding power are a good idea and a challenge for all of us, we will give it a go at home and I will report back in a week on what we done and if we missed out on anything.

One of the main causes of increased levels carbon dioxide in the air is the removal of the rain forests in South America (I forgot to mention that earlier) They have now cleared thousands of sq miles of forest to release land for farming and for the money they can get for the wood. When I was at school we were told that the South American forests were the lungs of the planet as they converted the carbon dioxide back into oxygen. The ability of the planet to do this has now been greatly reduced. I believe that this deforestation has more to do with the high levels of CO2 in the atmosphere than any of the emmitters which are in use around the world daily.

Totally agree wi ye Whitewater.They duffed up this world by major cutting doon o' trees.We took them for granted,oh they have pretty leaves,oh they make the countryside look so beautiful.AYE,their there for a reason so leave them alone.PAPER WASTE.....does more damage to oor world than anything.This said by a Page 3 fanatic.......I'm a hypocrite...but then one page in 365 days...thats no bad!!