View Full Version : Are the Lib Dems worth voting for in the future?
I'm not really into politics but I can't see the Lib Dems being a credible party to vote for in the future. What are your thoughts?
John Little
30-Nov-11, 20:46
They have sold their birthright for a mess of pottage and are now the walking dead.
They have sold their birthright for a mess of pottage and are now the walking dead.
Thats what I was thinking too.
If we are are looking at a local level, I think the Lib Dems have a long history of fielding very strong candidates. This makes them an attractive voting option.
Looking at them from a national perspective, I feel that as a party they currently serving out their final days on death row and have little or no future.
Finished....end of........Dead !!!!!!!
C3...........[disgust][disgust][disgust]
John Little
30-Nov-11, 21:01
The only hope for the Liberals is to break with the Democrats, end the coalition now and apologise to the British people for their betrayal of principle. It would take a great and charismatic Radical to do that. I do not think they have one.
The only hope for the Liberals is to break with the Democrats, end the coalition now and apologise to the British people for their betrayal of principle. It would take a great and charismatic Radical to do that. I do not think they have one.
So what happens to the likes of John Thurso then? Does he just jump ship to another party or does he need to sign on?
I think they are jolly nice and very helpful. I wouldn't vote for them though. :D
Seriously, I think the definite left is spent in British politics, despite all the moaning and groaning, the British public are not stupid, they know where the responsibility lies for the current mess we are in. From the de-regulation of the banking industry to the ridiculous bailout terms and the previous outrageously irresponsible spending and borrowing.
I think the Libdems will re-invent themselves into a credible party in a two party system. It is Labour that are finished.
Even now they think it would be a good idea to risk high interest rates persuing a spending spree to 'save us'.
It is criminal.
John Little
30-Nov-11, 21:14
So what happens to the likes of John Thurso then? Does he just jump ship to another party or does he need to sign on?
I think he's a worthy and honourable man who has been badly served by his leadership. I doubt that he will survive an election unless he is very popular and gets the personal vote. Otherwise the SNP will sweep the board up there - and no wonder!
So what happens to the likes of John Thurso then? Does he just jump ship to another party or does he need to sign on?
I would like to see him switch party, but to which one? At the moment there isn't a single party that I feel is worth voting for.
I think he's a worthy and honourable man who has been badly served by his leadership. I doubt that he will survive an election unless he is very popular and gets the personal vote. Otherwise the SNP will sweep the board up there - and no wonder!
Yes I think Johns been badly let down too. I voted Lib Dem last time around but couldn't consider them now. SNP next time-might as well give them a go.
I would like to see him switch party, but to which one? At the moment there isn't a single party that I feel is worth voting for.
Forget political parties, he should go independent....
In fact I'd like to see all political parties scrapped & all MPs elected as independents, doing away with all this "whipping" to force them to toe the party line instead of doing what is right for their constituents & the country.
picturegifts
30-Nov-11, 21:26
So what happens to the likes of John Thurso then? Does he just jump ship to another party or does he need to sign on?
Up here, you could put a monkey wearing a LibDem rosette on and he would be elected.
For those of you who are old enough to remember, this is what the LibDems are endorsing!!............... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=o3yA7wiFqZ4#at=169
C3..........[disgust][disgust][disgust]
Up here, you could put a monkey wearing a LibDem rosette on and he would be elected.
Yes, I have noticed that!!!.....More a Gorilla than a monkey though!!!
C3.............:roll:;)
For those of you who are old enough to remember, this is what the LibDems are endorsing!!............... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=o3yA7wiFqZ4#at=169
C3..........
Ah great to see the Iron Lady in her heyday, thanks C3.:D
Ah great to see the Iron Lady in her heyday, thanks C3.
Lol Duke....I put it up just for you Mate!!! ;)
Tell me, did you have a crush on her?....:roll:
C3...........:)
Ah great to see the Iron Lady in her heyday, thanks C3.:D
Your having a laugh right?
I was eight
You started young with your wet dreams...... I had dreams about her also...bloody nightmares!!!
C3..................:eek::roll:;)
Your having a laugh right?
No, Terrific leader. If the Falklands had kicked off 5 years ago we'd still be asking the UN to say pretty please now!
John Little
30-Nov-11, 21:45
Ahem - we have no aircraft carriers thanks to your mob...
No, Terrific leader. If the Falklands had kicked off 5 years ago we'd still be asking the UN to say pretty please now!
And wasn't it French Exocet missiles that killed our boys out there? And who took us into Europe?......
C3............[disgust]
Ahem - we have no aircraft carriers thanks to your mob...
Nope, we have Typhoon. One Typhoon, One war. Personally, I don't think we need the new ones. (Aircraft Carriers)
If Typhoon turns up unannounced, it poops your party.
And wasn't it French Exocet missiles that killed our boys out there? And who took us into Europe?......
C3............[disgust]
Dumarse statement even for you C3.:roll:
John Little
30-Nov-11, 21:58
So you are happy for us to become a 'third rate power' stop attempting to be a superpower and throwing our weight round in the world.
As I thought - whatever you may be you ain't a classic Tory.
Dumarse statement even for you C3.:roll:
Maybe Duke but its Ironic that our "Friends" in Europe were selling arms to Argentina when they knew there could be a conflict over the Falklands. I still have nightmares over that Woman, she destroyed our once great country!!!
C3,.......[disgust][disgust]
So you are happy for us to become a 'third rate power' stop attempting to be a superpower and throwing our weight round in the world.
As I thought - whatever you may be you ain't a classic Tory.
Sorry for the delay, had to look some stuff up.
Tech has moved on innit? You don't need a bliddy great ship full of people and expensive equipment to put in harms way.
Did you know the vast majority of the weapons, personnel and systems carried on a US Aircraft carrier are to stop it getting bombed. It is just a big fat target. The most effective weapon at sea we had in the Falklands was (one) submarine.
We have the capability to put inconceivably armed aircraft anywhere in the world at the drop of a hat. Why do you need to stick 'em on a boat?
John Little
30-Nov-11, 22:16
Forgive me Duke but I sincerely doubt that WE have the capability of putting sufficient aircraft anywhere in the world to carry out warfare that would achieve much. For that you need an offensive capability.
We have some pretty recent ex service personnel on here and I'd like to step back on this and hear what they might say on this issue.
Forgive me Duke but I sincerely doubt that WE have the capability of putting sufficient aircraft anywhere in the world to carry out warfare that would achieve much. For that you need an offensive capability.
We have some pretty recent ex service personnel on here and I'd like to step back on this and hear what they might say on this issue.
Well they won't like the reduction in hardware and personel I am talking about. But the sensible parties only went ahead with the carrier orders because it would have cost too much money and too many jobs to back out. It wasn't a strategic decision I believe, but a political one.
John Little
30-Nov-11, 22:22
Well they won't like the reduction in hardware and personel I am talking about. But the sensible parties only went ahead with the carrier orders because it would have cost too much money and too many jobs to back out. It wasn't a strategic decision I believe, but a political one.
That may be, but I freely admit to knowing nothing on these matters and will defer in reasonable argument to anyone who does.
Forgive me Duke but I sincerely doubt that WE have the capability of putting sufficient aircraft anywhere in the world to carry out warfare that would achieve much. For that you need an offensive capability.
We have some pretty recent ex service personnel on here and I'd like to step back on this and hear what they might say on this issue.
Half a dozen fully armed Tornados turning up at 3000 MPH is pretty bliddy offensive! And we were talking about the Falkands remember?
Half a dozen fully armed Tornados turning up at 3000 MPH is pretty bliddy offensive! And we were talking about the Falkands remember?
I was out there in 86 and 87. At that time apart from the Rapiers there were only 2 Phantom jets defending the whole Island-2 ready and 2 getting serviced-bit off thread now aren't we? 3000mph really?
John Thurso is quoted as losing his rag and saying Mac Bollocks rather than making a pertinent contribution. How sad?
John Little
30-Nov-11, 23:11
John Thurso is quoted as losing his rag and saying Mac Bollocks rather than making a pertinent contribution. How sad?
I- among others I suspect- would be glad of a translation...
I- among others I suspect- would be glad of a translation...
It was on Reporting Scotland last night, John Thurso went angry and said MacBollocks to SNP policy, it wasn't pretty
John Little
30-Nov-11, 23:16
Ah - I see. Very understandable I would think. Any particular aspects of policy?
Ah - I see. Very understandable I would think. Any particular aspects of policy?
Nah but I do suspect that John Thurso's advocacy of a moratorium on current wind power applications to be the cause of his outburst. John Thurso is also on record as saying he has publically supported existing large wind farms in Caithness and Sutherland, I'm still searching for news/online snippets to support that...
3000mph really?
It's downhill to the Falkland Islands.
secrets in symmetry
01-Dec-11, 00:06
I think the Libdems will re-invent themselves into a credible party in a two party system. It is Labour that are finished.Lol! How much would you be willing to place on the table to put your money where your mouth is?
I am laughing out loud, but I suspect you might actually believe what you wrote there!
The content of your posts on this thread suggests you might be about to have a tantrum - but I expect you will hold back....
Nope, we have Typhoon. One Typhoon, One war. Personally, I don't think we need the new ones. (Aircraft Carriers)
If Typhoon turns up unannounced, it poops your party.
Whats the range of a Typhoon?
Whats the range of a Typhoon?
Infinite. :Razz
3000mph really?
I was using 3000MPH as an ironic indication of very fast indeed! The sort of thing I do in conversation all the time, maybe it doesn't translate well to the org.:confused
Lol! How much would you be willing to place on the table to put your money where your mouth is?
I am laughing out loud, but I suspect you might actually believe what you wrote there!
The content of your posts on this thread suggests you might be about to have a tantrum - but I expect you will hold back....
Me?:eek: Only a lunatic would bet on the outcome of a UK election. Nevertheless, the L peeps have nothing, are lead by a no-one, don't have any credible alternative for anything, including their own leader. Doesn't look good does it?
And listening to DC's PMQs off the cuff comments, I feel he genuinely believes this to be true. And he will be in position to know.
Nick Noble
01-Dec-11, 10:47
Whether folks on here like it or not the biggest single factor affecting politics in the UK for the past three years, and probably for the next three years is the global financial crisis.
At the time of the last general election Italy and the UK were paying roughly the same interest rates on their debt, today Italy are paying over 7%, the UK around 2.2%.
Why is that? Principally because the UK is seen as having a strong government and a credible economic policy.
Would that be the case if the Liberal democrats had taken the easy option and allowed the Conservatives to form a government and limp along from one crisis to the next?
If they had done so how long would it have taken for them to lose a vote in Parliament that actually mattered, and been forced to call a general election?
So we could have had a lame duck government that limped along from crisis to crisis, I don't believe the international markets would have been too impressed with that. I don't think they would have been able to deal as firmly and robustly with labours legacy as they have been able to do thanks to having a strong coalition government.
Does that coalition do the Liberal Democrats any favours? Well it does if you like to see Liberal democrat policies in action.
Why was the personal allowance raised by £1000 with another rise of £630 in April, and a commitment to work towards a personal allowance of £10000, the Liberal Democrats demanded it.
The pupil premium - does not directly impact us here in Scotland, but is having a massive positive impact in England.
The newly announced £1 billion program to help to tackle youth unemployment.
More free childcare for the poorest families from the age of 2.
There's the Green Investment Bank
Why should we care about all this help to the poorest members of society? Because leaving them to fester in their current misery costs us all a fortune.
On a more local level:
Why have we now got permission from the EU to cut 5p per litre from fuel duty for the remote islands? Because the Liberal Democrat chief secretary to the treasury fought for it having been told by both labour and conservatives it is not possible to do. And the battle to get the cut extended to the mainland will go on!
There's the £103 million announced for renewables
There's the coastal communities fund
There's recently announced funding for the Sleeper trains
Funding for High Speed Broadband
Mountain rescue teams are to get help with VAT as from April
So a Liberal Democrat vote is a vote well worth casting if you want strong government, fair government, and genuinely progressive government.
John Little
01-Dec-11, 12:05
All that you say they have done is true Nick, but to me that's akin to throwing the beggars a handful of coppers. The stark fact is that we have got some pretty hard economic policies going on as a result of which our growth rate has flatlined.
The Lib Dems could call a halt to this right now - but they don't. They take the gews-gaws, and Cameron and Osborne get to do the big stuff as if they had won a landslide.
Nick Noble
01-Dec-11, 12:10
So John, please tell us a realistic alternative to what is currently happening...
And if it involves getting out of the EU or borrowing more then see my first point regarding debt interest rates...
Nick,
What you've said above is very true.
The Lib Dems have managed to get some of their policies through by forming a coalition.
In that respect they have done very well.
They've also had to give up some policies, or agree with others as part of the coalition deal.
Unfortunately, many people will not see this, accuse them of "jumping into bed" with the conservatives and abandoning their values.
At the end of the day, they've had a go at power, something they couldn't have got on their own.
Nick Noble
01-Dec-11, 12:29
Nick,
What you've said above is very true.
The Lib Dems have managed to get some of their policies through by forming a coalition.
In that respect they have done very well.
They've also had to give up some policies, or agree with others as part of the coalition deal.
Unfortunately, many people will not see this, accuse them of "jumping into bed" with the conservatives and abandoning their values.
At the end of the day, they've had a go at power, something they couldn't have got on their own.
Even more important than their own policies is the shared policy of fixing the economy. I do not like the medicine, but it is certainly better than letting the illness run it's course. Ask the Greeks, ask the Italians, ask the Irish...
I am proud to be a Liberal Democrat and I will happily shout it from the rooftops. The Liberal Democrats have done a deeply unpopular thing - forming a coalition - they could so easily have walked away and allowed the UK to face the consequences of the huge debt that was allowed to accumulate under the previous government.
Instead they chose the very hard road, which means they will get bad press, but that is a far better thing than the total abrogation of responsibility that was the alternative.
This country needed a strong stable and long lasting Government. The Liberal Democrats have been courageous enough to face up to that task without worrying about the short term electoral price. A rare thing indeed in politics, the interests of the country as a whole before the interests of the party!
Instead they chose the very hard road, which means they will get bad press............
Unfortunately the bad press, whether hype or warranted, will hurt the number of votes they get in future.
I read a piece in "the spectator" a couple of weeks ago that suggested UKIP will get more votes than them in the next election.
John Little
01-Dec-11, 13:14
Nick - you ask me what they should do next?
I agree with both you and The One about what they have done.
But that's not how the public will see it.
Also there's Bill Clinton's remark on the economy to bear in mind. Where it matters, the Tories are getting their way.
If the Lib Dems wish to survive as a party they will review what they have, what is happening to the economy and end the coalition.
They will then offer to form a coalition with Labour and be much much more pro-active in the big matters- even having Cable as Chancellor. Labour could not form a government without this.
The alternative is a genera;l election.
The Lib Dems have the whip hand right now and can redeem themselves in the public eye.
If they do not use it now- then they are finished.
Nick Noble
01-Dec-11, 13:24
Labour were not and are not interested in a coalition, and furthermore even if they were they have no credible policies worthy of being the basis of any government.
They keep asking for the mistakes of their past to be repeated.
I will keep pointing out, and the Liberal Democrats will keep pointing out exactly what has been achieved for the UK as a whole by the coalition. The electorate are not as stupid as some people like to suggest. They recognise the truth when it is put in front of them.
The truth is the economy is being nursed back to health, and it is hurting. But the alternative really is unthinkable.
Do you know how much extra interest the UK would be paying if it found it's bond yields at over 7% like Italy?
Humerous Vegetable
01-Dec-11, 13:25
Nick
At the end of the day, they've had a go at power, something they couldn't have got on their own.
And that's a good thing, is it?
Unfortunately, in some parts of Scotland we have long been afflicted by the "feudal vote", where the local peasantry elected the local laird, no matter how stupid or criminally incompetent. Nicky Fairbairn, Tory MP for Kinross and West Perthshire, was a good example. He seems to have spent most of his life drunk and involved in various scandals but continued to be re-elected by the local vassals.
The Tories and the Liberal (Democrat) party have always benefited from the feudal vote in places like the Borders and....Caithness......
John Little
01-Dec-11, 13:28
I do not think that anybody would question the fact that our economy is unbalanced and that it needs to be restructured. That is plain.
However, and I keep pointing this out, there is no shortage of money in this country. Th problem is where it is.
While the economy tries to run with not enough cash in the system. and vast amounts sit unused, concentrated in the hands of a few, then so will the economy be in trouble.
The Tories and the Liberal (Democrat) party have always benefited from the feudal vote in places like the Borders and....Caithness......
If that's the way the people choose to vote, so be it.
That's democracy.
And that's a good thing, is it?
Unfortunately, in some parts of Scotland we have long been afflicted by the "feudal vote", where the local peasantry elected the local laird, no matter how stupid or criminally incompetent. Nicky Fairbairn, Tory MP for Kinross and West Perthshire, was a good example. He seems to have spent most of his life drunk and involved in various scandals but continued to be re-elected by the local vassals.
The Tories and the Liberal (Democrat) party have always benefited from the feudal vote in places like the Borders and....Caithness......
Oh I do like it pointed out how stupid I am, anyone else?
rob murray
01-Dec-11, 16:09
Labour were not and are not interested in a coalition, and furthermore even if they were they have no credible policies worthy of being the basis of any government.
They keep asking for the mistakes of their past to be repeated.
I will keep pointing out, and the Liberal Democrats will keep pointing out exactly what has been achieved for the UK as a whole by the coalition. The electorate are not as stupid as some people like to suggest. They recognise the truth when it is put in front of them.
The truth is the economy is being nursed back to health, and it is hurting. But the alternative really is unthinkable.
Do you know how much extra interest the UK would be paying if it found it's bond yields at over 7% like Italy?
NO, but I do know that Danny Alexander, surely the tories tory, is toast at the next election
NO, but I do know that Danny Alexander, surely the tories tory, is toast at the next election
So no interest in the issues then, just dogma.
secrets in symmetry
03-Dec-11, 20:12
Me?:eek: Only a lunatic would bet on the outcome of a UK election. Nevertheless, the L peeps have nothing, are lead by a no-one, don't have any credible alternative for anything, including their own leader. Doesn't look good does it?
And listening to DC's PMQs off the cuff comments, I feel he genuinely believes this to be true. And he will be in position to know.Since your opinions seem ever more bizarre to me, there's little point in continuing this discussion. So I....
secrets in symmetry
03-Dec-11, 20:15
Whether folks on here like it or not the biggest single factor affecting politics in the UK for the past three years, and probably for the next three years is the global financial crisis.
At the time of the last general election Italy and the UK were paying roughly the same interest rates on their debt, today Italy are paying over 7%, the UK around 2.2%.
Why is that? Principally because the UK is seen as having a strong government and a credible economic policy.Yes, this is, in my opinion, the only case for the current fiscal policy. It is also, again in my opinion, one of the best cases I know against the current market-capitalist world economy. Surely we can come up with something better.
How to change fiscal policy to reduce the deficit in the short term? Well, a tighter policy would clearly be worse - an axiomatic economist would probably claim he can prove that beyond reasonable doubt, so it clearly has to be looser to prevent further deterioration, but how much looser? We shall not find out with J-George in charge, and Ed Balls isn't stupid enough to tell the media exactly what he would do.
Australia anyone? One of my workmates went recently, and he's enjoying the summer....
Since your opinions seem ever more bizarre to me, there's little point in continuing this discussion. So I....
Since when have bizarre opinions on the org been reason to....
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.