View Full Version : What the hell is the Goverment thinking of?
http://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/2791
Search and Rescue being civilianised, what ever next? Bean Counters win again [disgust]
tonkatojo
28-Nov-11, 14:15
If it's owt like the civilian air ambulances they will run daylight hours only and only if it's not windy, good luck to all seafarers in future.
Why so shocked Golach? Haven't you realised yet that the Tories are in power? Everything will be privatised before their term is up.... you just watch!!
If you are so upset then support the SNP and then after Independence we will have our own Search & Rescue!!!...Simples!!
C3................:roll:;)
Mr. G.....The World is changing....we are the dinosaurs of the new era....
Look how the World changed since we started work....Maybe not better but everyone survives....
Read an article where your Ministry of Defence (perhaps not the correct description), has been secretly overspending for years..somehow, somewhere it has to stop!
Yes we have it to...before you start shouting at me....haha
Why so shocked Golach? Haven't you realised yet that the Tories are in power? Everything will be privatised before their term is up.... you just watch!!
If you are so upset then support the SNP and then after Independence we will have our own Search & Rescue!!!...Simples!!
C3................:roll:;)
Aye right!!!!Me Support Eck?, hell will freeze over first. Get another snp leader and I may think differently and who is going to run the SNP's Search and Rescue, Civilians and Volunteers? .
weezer 316
28-Nov-11, 14:52
Why so shocked Golach? Haven't you realised yet that the Tories are in power? Everything will be privatised before their term is up.... you just watch!!
If you are so upset then support the SNP and then after Independence we will have our own Search & Rescue!!!...Simples!!
C3................:roll:;)
Dont you remember...your a tory! You admitted it on the benefits thread!
Oh and it being run by civilians means just that. Its not being privatized , the Dept of transport are taking it over, and they are, last time I checked, a govt body. So facts striaght before such moans please.
Search and rescue helicopters based in the Western Isles and Shetland are already run by CHC helicopters from Aberdeen.
I've no idea if they have mountain rescue capabilities though.
Dont you remember...your a tory! You admitted it on the benefits thread!
Weezer, the SNP were and still are known as Tartan Tories, poor Corrie [lol]
Golach - the reason is stupid unthinking political dogma. Their 'ideology' tells them that the free market delivers everything better and more efficiently.
The mess that is our railways, our buses, our phones, our gas, our electricity, coal, steel and car industries to name the chief ones, should tell them the error of this. But it does not. When John Stuart Mill called them the 'stupid party' he was right - and it's still true today.
Oh no you don't! It is well known that civil servants when tasked with running any kind of business Cars, Rail, Airlines, Utilities etc. can only do so with massive subsidies from the public purse. Or me as I like to think of it!
http://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/2791
Search and Rescue being civilianised, what ever next? Bean Counters win again [disgust]
I understand people fear change, but what exactly is the objection?
SAR - living so close to the airport where one of CHC Scotia SAR helicopters is based, I can assure you this helicopter is NOT a fairweather one and does Mountain Rescue too, they cover all the west coast and are out very very frequently.
This is one it went on earlier this month - beyond the capabilities of the Forces SAR teams
http://www.hebrides-news.com/long-distance-coastguard-mission-191111.html
I am sure the people in Western Isles, West Coast and Shetland will NOT be too pleased at anyone calling CHC Scotia a second class service - the service provided is fantastic, they even have 'the dope on the rope' (a crew member highly trained to deal with casualties and all situations).
Ask the many who are rescued from Torridon, Skye, Kintail, Sutherland etc all year round, most of them rescued by the SAR CHC Scotia staff based at Stornoway airport.
I know how frequently this helicopter is called out - the noise and downdraft it makes is very very distinctive so am always aware when it is on a call out when am around my home.
Nothing at all wrong with CHC Scotia, crews - both male and female are excellent, until you have seen them in action do no knock them.
Once I could buy a train ticket without needing a translator to plough through the fare options. I could read a timetable that more or less made sense and get on a train that more or less ran on time.
Not now.
Once we had a car industry and a steel industry that employed thousands and thousands of people who paid tax and bought things, which drove the engine of a healthy economy. They needed reform; instead they got binned.
Once we had utilities that reflected a fair profit into keeping themselves going and kept prices to the consumer at a reasonable and affordable level. Now we have utilities who compete on a world market where prices are high, but who push the price to consumers higher yet because they have to pay dividends to shareholders.
Once you had NHS dentists- now they are like hen's teeth.
Now there's another 'privatisation' coming along. Where will the dividend come from there?
You want lower taxes?
You ain't got 'em!
Well yes in fact, what do you think the situation would be now with 20 or 30 mega industries all needing their subsidy?
And, you may remember, the workers in these industries that you miss so much, spent most of their time on strike!
What do you think the situation would be if, instead of wholescale and ideologically motivated abolition, there had been intelligent reform, rationalisation and modernisation? Would we perhaps still be an industrial and manufacturing powerhouse, like, for example, Germany?
Would we still have 2 million unemployed youth?
Would we have generations in the same families who have not worked in their lives?
Would we still have a benefit culture feeding off the only burgeoning sector of our economy - Finance- because they have become irrelevant before the great god of the free market?
Would our people still count more than Corporations?
Would they be engaged in society instead of feeling left out?
Would such a Britain be broken?
Would the Scots be so fed up with the foolishness of it that many of them very understandably think they could make a better job of it alone?
What do you mean by abolition & idiology? Rationalisation and modernisation were tried, the result? Strikes.
Germany is going down the tube faster than us because no-one can afford Mercedes.
Pat.. I agree with your comments...all very capable/ same story here.
And what you and many of us need is another Thatcher!
SAR - living so close to the airport where one of CHC Scotia SAR helicopters is based, I can assure you this helicopter is NOT a fairweather one and does Mountain Rescue too, they cover all the west coast and are out very very frequently.
This is one it went on earlier this month - beyond the capabilities of the Forces SAR teams
http://www.hebrides-news.com/long-distance-coastguard-mission-191111.html
I am sure the people in Western Isles, West Coast and Shetland will NOT be too pleased at anyone calling CHC Scotia a second class service - the service provided is fantastic, they even have 'the dope on the rope' (a crew member highly trained to deal with casualties and all situations).
Ask the many who are rescued from Torridon, Skye, Kintail, Sutherland etc all year round, most of them rescued by the SAR CHC Scotia staff based at Stornoway airport.
I know how frequently this helicopter is called out - the noise and downdraft it makes is very very distinctive so am always aware when it is on a call out when am around my home.
Nothing at all wrong with CHC Scotia, crews - both male and female are excellent, until you have seen them in action do no knock them.
Well said Pat.
Duke - the strikes were because the unions could see what was happening. I can remember Scargill warning that the government's intention was to shut down the mining industry - and that was before the 1984 strike. I have no time for the man- but was he wrong?
Much of the striking and the bitterness was due to the ideology.
The Tory party under Thatcher maimed this nation and not just its industry. They dealt a blow to the union which may prove mortal.
We got a virtual dictatorship of the Right when we needed Social Democracy. Dogma instead of compromise. Scrap heap instead of change. I wonder if we will ever recover- and now, as Golach's link illustrates, we see the same process going on - rushing headlong into a proven mess.
Germany going down the pan. I may laugh...[lol]
The simple fact was, that for whatever reason, and I amonst others blame mis-management and an intransigent workforce, these old industries could not compete. We could import much of the products we made and materiels we mined, much much cheaper than we could produce ourselves. This was before the minimum wage as well.
Look at the car industry. British Leyland's products were appalling. Even the workers wouldnt buy them. They were 10 years out of date, too expensive and the build quality was awful. Rover, after privatisation, actually built decent cars. Unfortunatley still too expensive.
Look at Nissan, Honda and now TATA. They can make competitive, good cars in this country, Why? Because they are succesful private companies that can invest in new factories, training, work practices.
Coal is the same, British Coal mine coal at a price that power companies will buy it at. Same reason. Etc.
In the bad old days, the only reason to mine coal was because nationalised Utilities had to buy it at a higher price than they could import it. The whole thing was pointless.
Nationalised companys will always attract the absolute minimum investment under any Government because the taxpayer has to foot the bill.
We need socialism, don't make me laugh.
It has been tried under various guises over the last century and more and has never worked.
It breeds that mentality that the state will provide regardless of the economics and harbours the policies of envy.
With regard to golach's original post I can appreciate his concerns especially after these last few days when there have been tragedies at sea but originating from the county where RN Culdrose is based, I just hope that the pilots and companies that take on the service will be trained to the same high standards.
I have to agree that private companies can offer an excellent service as proved by the county's air amulance service which is a hybrid being funded by private and public monies and like the one serving The Hebrides is on call 24hrs a day.
SAR - living so close to the airport where one of CHC Scotia SAR helicopters is based, I can assure you this helicopter is NOT a fairweather one and does Mountain Rescue too, they cover all the west coast and are out very very frequently.
..........
Nothing at all wrong with CHC Scotia, crews - both male and female are excellent, until you have seen them in action do no knock them.
Well said Pat.
I work offshore, covered by the CHC SAR service, and have no concerns over their ability.
I was not doubting them, I just wasn't sure if they did mountain rescues.
If I ever have to jump overboard I won't be worried what uniform the guy picking me out of the sea is wearing.
What was the last decent car designed, engineered and built in Britian by a British firm?
which car though?
In fact scratch that as all cars made by that company are BMW derived.
Humerous Vegetable
28-Nov-11, 19:12
And what you and many of us need is another Thatcher!
And, dear God, we seem to have an unlimited supply........most Tories, most LibDems most NuLabour...and etc. All intent upon using Scotland as their guinea pig lab for any new legislative experiments that take their fancy.
Some of you seem to have a memory deficit if you have forgotten how the Thatcher government introduced Poll Tax into Scotland a year before it was inflicted upon the Tory heartlands in England and Wales, or, maybe you were living there at the time, and didn't notice.
Apparently Lady Thatcher is now officially barmy, suffering from Alzheimers, rather than indulging in dementia as a hobby like she used to. If you want another Thatcher, I'm glad you live elsewhere, where there's probably space to avoid it.
What was the last decent car designed, engineered and built in Britian by a British firm?
http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/carpages/supersports/supersports.html :cool:
http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/carpages/supersports/supersports.html :cool:
Not really British though is it? not with the major component of a BMW V8 under the bonnet.
We make very little anymore, and whats worse we no longer have the infrastructure or skills base to resume fabrication.
What was the last decent car designed, engineered and built in Britian by a British firm?
Gilburn Invader
weezer 316
28-Nov-11, 19:46
Devastated to see this has descended into an argument without me being involved!
I agree with Ducati in the majority fo the points raised. I feel bar a few key sectors (health, education, policing,defence ebing the main ones) everything should be done privately. The reason is that unless you are prepared to run something as a public service and therefore provide it free (or very heavily subsidised) at the point of use then i grudge paying for it.
It also raises the quesion of do those who favour large scale state run enterprises back us keeping the banks in public hands? And what happens when the free market they operate in does a run on them?
Why has a genuine thread with a genuine question been brought into ridicule by John Little, ducati, dialiser and mi16 with their inane postings about vehicles....i believe this is a concerted effort by a group of trolls. They have tried this more than once.
I doubt anything will be done about this childish behaviour as John Little is able to walk on water.
John Little
28-Nov-11, 21:11
Your genuine question prompted a genuine and useful debate.
You can't see that.
Very well.
I, the undersigned solemnly undertake never to post on any of Golach's threads again.
John Little
Anyone wishing to continue this debate - see you elsewhere.
I have deleted all my posts on this thread save this promise.
ciao.
Why has a genuine thread with a genuine question been brought into ridicule by John Little, ducati, dialiser and mi16 with their inane postings about vehicles....i believe this is a concerted effort by a group of trolls. They have tried this more than once.
I doubt anything will be done about this childish behaviour as John Little is able to walk on water.
You didn't answer my genuine question.
Mystical Potato Head
28-Nov-11, 21:51
Why has a genuine thread with a genuine question been brought into ridicule by John Little, ducati, dialiser and mi16 with their inane postings about vehicles....i believe this is a concerted effort by a group of trolls. They have tried this more than once.
I doubt anything will be done about this childish behaviour as John Little is able to walk on water.
Whereas you only think you can walk on water.Shame you wont see this as i'm on your iggy list.
Why has a genuine thread with a genuine question been brought into ridicule by John Little, ducati, dialiser and mi16 with their inane postings about vehicles....i believe this is a concerted effort by a group of trolls. They have tried this more than once.
I doubt anything will be done about this childish behaviour as John Little is able to walk on water.
Not ridicule brother I belive it was a genuine debate regarding the state of this countries motor industry, if you dont want to read the posts then dont read them.
Gilburn Invader
I like your thinking but alas no, Bernard Friese (ther bern in Gilbern) was as you may have guessed a German.
And he was the engineer, plus it used a ford lump which is also non British.
Whereas you only think you can walk on water.Shame you wont see this as i'm on your iggy list.
Im not trying to cause trouble. Honest. [lol]
Im not trying to cause trouble. Honest.
[lol][lol][lol]
Im not trying to cause trouble. Honest. :lol:[lol]:lol:
Bobinovich
28-Nov-11, 23:36
Why has a genuine thread with a genuine question been brought into ridicule by John Little, ducati, dialiser and mi16 with their inane postings about vehicles....i believe this is a concerted effort by a group of trolls. They have tried this more than once.
I doubt anything will be done about this childish behaviour as John Little is able to walk on water.
Heh he, you've been on here longer than I and know fine that the only way to ensure a thread doesn't stray is to lock it after you've posted, however this makes for pretty pointless and boring topics. Otherwise it's fair game to go wherever the subsequent posters want to take it within the rules!
Didn't Maggie T., make some good decisions, and at least she didn't waffle.
Come on people, she wasn't all bad!
We may not need socialism but we do need a social conscience in our government and you wont find it in the tories. Tories privatise and Thatcher governments drove the me me me ideology. The im alright jack so who cares about you type of attitude. I feel that the whole focus of where the government spends its money need to change. The change does seem to be happening in Scotland where the emphasis seems to be starting to be more about whats best for the people of Scotland but its a long road. The emphasis of this government has always seemed to be about targetting the less well off to make savings. The benefit changes are a case in point. An example is that under existing rules, if you are permanently using a wheelchair then you automatically qualify for 15 points which is what you need to get the mobility aspect of DLA. Under the tory changes you will only get 12 points for being permanently in a wheelchair and will therefore not qualify for the allowance without further health issues. WHAT is that about? WHY is that an appropriate change? And at the risk of being repetitive ... They cut that allowance and yet vodafone, philip green and the like wander off avoiding tax liabilities yadda yadda yadda.....
oldmarine
30-Nov-11, 19:30
http://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/2791
Search and Rescue being civilianised, what ever next? Bean Counters win again [disgust]
Golach: Looks like you are having the same problems there that we are having in the USA with Government taking over everything. Oh how things have changed since WW2!
weezer 316
30-Nov-11, 19:48
marine,
I think the point he is making is that hes worried it may be privatised, as its already within govt hands.
Because of the inane and stupid posts, added on to a issue that I thought was a serions one sic the lost of the Military Wing of the SAR. I hae decided to close this thread.
The posts I mean were # 9,12,13,16,25 and 29 supplied by ducati
# 19,20,23,24,31,32 supplied by mi16.
Hope you have all enjoy yourselves.
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