Question About Wind Turbines at Forss

[Penelope Pitstop]

Hi everyone

I know there are a lot of you on here that are knowledgeable about wind turbines and wondered if I could pick your brains.

Does anyone know how high the wind turbines are at Forss? Also what MW they are?

Also, what is the minimum distance stipulated by Caithness Council Planning department for distance of a wind turbine from a residential property? Is it 1000m if the turbine is above 25m high, or is that for England and Wales?

Sorry for all the questions, but any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

PP

[mi16]

It is certianly not 1km as the Bailie Hill ones are much closer than that.

[Rheghead]

A simple Ecosia search provided this

http://www.scottish-places.info/features/featurefirst18041.html

[ywindythesecond]

Hi everyone

I know there are a lot of you on here that are knowledgeable about wind turbines and wondered if I could pick your brains.

Does anyone know how high the wind turbines are at Forss? Also what MW they are?
Also, what is the minimum distance stipulated by Caithness Council Planning department for distance of a wind turbine from a residential property? Is it 1000m if the turbine is above 25m high, or is that for England and Wales?

Sorry for all the questions, but any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

PP
Hi Penelope P.
Reggy has given the answer re size and MW of the Forss turbines.

There is no such thing as Caithness Council anymore, it is all Highland Council. Highland Council has no policy regarding distance of turbines from houses, and I don't think England has either. Scottish Government says that the starting point for consideration of major windfarms is 2km from towns cities or villages, but each case is judged on its own merits so Baillie windfarm is being built with dozens of houses much closer. You might take some comfort from this, but perhaps your neighbours aren't quite as influential.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-15871885

[Penelope Pitstop]

Thanks for your responses.

I hadn't heard anything about the one that was proposed at Mey, but planning rejected it. Anyone know what size it was?

Thanks.

[Gronnuck]

The original application was for the installation of one 20KW wind turbine 20.6 metres high to hub. Details are here (http://wam.highland.gov.uk/wam/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=LCAEUFIH7R000)

[ywindythesecond]

Thanks for your responses.

I hadn't heard anything about the one that was proposed at Mey, but planning rejected it. Anyone know what size it was?

Thanks.
Out of interest Penelope P, what do you (or for that matter any other reader) know about Wathegar Wind Farm?

[Rheghead]

Thanks for your responses.

I hadn't heard anything about the one that was proposed at Mey, but planning rejected it. Anyone know what size it was?

Thanks.

Why would you want to reject to it given the positive repercussions that wind farms will contribute to reducing our carbon footprint which are predicted to kill a third of the the Earth's creatures?

[bekisman]

Reggy, you need to get on Sandyr1 back, seems Canada is opting out of Kyoto!:eek:

Canada declared four years ago that it did not intend to meet its existing Kyoto Protocol commitment - to bring annual emissions in the period 2008-12 down by 6% from their 1990 level.

They have in fact risen by about one-third since 1990.

And just a few hours after talks began in the Durban conference hall, Canadian environment minister Peter Kent was confirming to reporters in the capital Ottawa that its involvement with Kyoto was over.
"We will not make a second commitment to Kyoto," he said. "We don't need a binding convention."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15930562 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15930562)

[Rheghead]

Reggy, you need to get on Sandyr1 back, seems Canada is opting out of Kyoto!:eek:

Canada declared four years ago that it did not intend to meet its existing Kyoto Protocol commitment - to bring annual emissions in the period 2008-12 down by 6% from their 1990 level.

They have in fact risen by about one-third since 1990.

And just a few hours after talks began in the Durban conference hall, Canadian environment minister Peter Kent was confirming to reporters in the capital Ottawa that its involvement with Kyoto was over.
"We will not make a second commitment to Kyoto," he said. "We don't need a binding convention."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15930562 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15930562)

Oh come on Bekisman, Alberta tar sands and all that and our Governments reluctance to acknowledge the damaging effect that that will cause on the world. Dirty Canadian tar sands will contribut to 40 ppm on the Earth's CO2 portfolio equivilant to a high rise to global temperatures. Don't give me a head-in-the-sand response, honour me with a reply which I think you are worthy of your investigative nature.

[mi16]

Why would you want to reject to it given the positive repercussions that wind farms will contribute to reducing our carbon footprint which are predicted to kill a third of the the Earth's creatures?

I am yet to see proof that a wind turbine can even cancel out its own carbon footprint let alone reduce the nations.

[secrets in symmetry]

I am yet to see proof that a wind turbine can even cancel out its own carbon footprint let alone reduce the nations.This will be because you haven't looked, or because you ignore the facts and just believe what you want...like many (most?) of the posters on this forum....

[mi16]

This will be because you haven't looked, or because you ignore the facts and just believe what you want...like many (most?) of the posters on this forum....

I have done research in the past, however I have never found an independantly produced article that takes all the factors into account, i.e. groundworks, structural, fabrication, construction, maintenance, corrective works, decommissioning and green field re instatement.

I agree pro winfarms have their stance and go all out to push that, the same goes for anti.
Its the nature of the beast.

[secrets in symmetry]

I've seen a few independent estimates, but I can't find them right now.

There are plenty of estimates by anti-windies, the relatively sensible ones put a lower limit on the CO2 saved.

[bekisman]

Oh come on Bekisman, Alberta tar sands and all that and our Governments reluctance to acknowledge the damaging effect that that will cause on the world. Dirty Canadian tar sands will contribut to 40 ppm on the Earth's CO2 portfolio equivilant to a high rise to global temperatures. Don't give me a head-in-the-sand response, honour me with a reply which I think you are worthy of your investigative nature.Rheghead - you asked me to reply..

You do me a disservice! I was simply pointing out the reluctance of other nations to follow Kyoto, I'm afraid your 'head-in-the sand' comment was absurd..

Rheghead, I am not a self-proclaimed scientist. But YOU, my good fellow, are. But may I respectfully suggest that you ease off chastising folk such as Penelope Pitstop - among many others. For goodness sake, she only asked the height and output of a few turbines, your tart response was uncalled for, the Org is not a platform to denigrate and mock innocent posters, ad hominem comes to mind.
Anyone reading these threads can well believe there is a division among Orgers whether Global Warming is man made(anthropogenic) or by natural causes. Each to their own.
Considering you were a doubter:

February 2005 on this very Org;

"Fair enough, but I would be a lot happier about the scientists who claim that humans are causing Global Warming if they present one piece of evidence to prove without doubt that we are doing so. So far they haven't. I am not sure that we are causing Global Warming, and if we are why should we try to stop it?" -

I think this is a very fair post, as it tells us all that you were a doubter until your relatively recent road to Damascus moment. No one derided your comments, your quasi-hysterical stance on Global Warming and CO2 may be well intentioned, but to denigrate others who have doubts as you did yourself, reads very much like a crusade.


In July 2005 you were in New York - did you swim or was it in a big smelly CO2 polluting Jumbo?

On 16th Jan 2010 "I'm retiring from wind farm/ global warming threads from now on if it causes such bitterness. I think I'll be doing my homelife a great service tbh".
Hmm, I also understand from an earlier posting you stated you were "Environmental consultant for Local Government" which may go some way to explaining your dogmatic stance.

And finally I don't want to be pedantic but contribut is spelt contribute and equivilant is spelt equivalent.

Me thinks the diction is lost in your enthusiasm to post shall we say your 'mission statement'?

[Rheghead]

And finally I don't want to be pedantic but contribut is spelt contribute and equivilant is spelt equivalent.

It is often said that cherry picking old phrases and out of context is a poor way to make a debate and if ones last resort is to pick up on spelling mistakes then they've lost the argument. Well done.

[Rheghead]

I am yet to see proof that a wind turbine can even cancel out its own carbon footprint let alone reduce the nations.

Dr John Hetherington the High Priest of the anti wind movement says in The Case against Wind Farms

" It is often said that wind turbines fail to pay back the energy and CO2 cost of their manufacture and erection, or even that the CO2 emission from cement manufacture alone is enough to offset the lifetime saving of CO2 by a turbine. All of these assertions are untrue. Don't repeat them"

[oldmarine]

Hi everyone

I know there are a lot of you on here that are knowledgeable about wind turbines and wondered if I could pick your brains.

Does anyone know how high the wind turbines are at Forss? Also what MW they are?

Also, what is the minimum distance stipulated by Caithness Council Planning department for distance of a wind turbine from a residential property? Is it 1000m if the turbine is above 25m high, or is that for England and Wales?

Sorry for all the questions, but any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

PP
I'm not familiar with wind turbines in Caithness, but I know they are popular in the California desert where there are not too many people living to complain.

[mi16]

Dr John Hetherington the High Priest of the anti wind movement says in The Case against Wind Farms

" It is often said that wind turbines fail to pay back the energy and CO2 cost of their manufacture and erection, or even that the CO2 emission from cement manufacture alone is enough to offset the lifetime saving of CO2 by a turbine. All of these assertions are untrue. Don't repeat them"

Like I said I am yet to see proof that a wind turbine can even cancel out its own carbon footprint let alone reduce the nations.

[Rheghead]

Like I said I am yet to see proof that a wind turbine can even cancel out its own carbon footprint let alone reduce the nations.

There's credible studies online that suggests that wind farms repay their carbon footprints within a few months, if you find a credible one that suggests that they don't repay their carbon then I will make John Hetherington look like Chris Huhne.

[bekisman]

It is often said that cherry picking old phrases and out of context is a poor way to make a debate and if ones last resort is to pick up on spelling mistakes then they've lost the argument. Well done.
Well done? I thank you, but 'Cherry picking'? nah it's a whole blinking tree young chap!

I said I didn't want to be pedantic, your reply surely gives an indication that you're attempting (but failing) to divert off the main thrust of my post.. Please read it.

Rheghead, I am not a self-proclaimed scientist. But YOU, my good fellow, are. But may I respectfully suggest that you ease off chastising folk such as Penelope Pitstop - among many others. For goodness sake, she only asked the height and output of a few turbines, your tart response was uncalled for, the Org is not a platform to denigrate and mock innocent posters, ad hominem comes to mind.
Anyone reading these threads can well believe there is a division among Orgers whether Global Warming is man made(anthropogenic) or by natural causes. Each to their own.
Considering you were a doubter:

February 2005 on this very Org;

"Fair enough, but I would be a lot happier about the scientists who claim that humans are causing Global Warming if they present one piece of evidence to prove without doubt that we are doing so. So far they haven't. I am not sure that we are causing Global Warming, and if we are why should we try to stop it?" -

I think this is a very fair post, as it tells us all that you were a doubter until your relatively recent road to Damascus moment. No one derided your comments, your quasi-hysterical stance on Global Warming and CO2 may be well intentioned, but to denigrate others who have doubts as you did yourself, reads very much like a crusade.


In July 2005 you were in New York - did you swim or was it in a big smelly CO2 polluting Jumbo?

On 16th Jan 2010 "I'm retiring from wind farm/ global warming threads from now on if it causes such bitterness. I think I'll be doing my homelife a great service tbh".
Hmm, I also understand from an earlier posting you stated you were "Environmental consultant for Local Government" which may go some way to explaining your dogmatic stance.;)

[Rheghead]

In July 2005 you were in New York - did you swim or was it in a big smelly CO2 polluting Jumbo?

Yes I was on holiday and flew by dirty jumbo but I also visited my older brother who had cancer, he died in the following October.

[ywindythesecond]

Dr John Hetherington the High Priest of the anti wind movement says in The Case against Wind Farms

" It is often said that wind turbines fail to pay back the energy and CO2 cost of their manufacture and erection, or even that the CO2 emission from cement manufacture alone is enough to offset the lifetime saving of CO2 by a turbine. All of these assertions are untrue. Don't repeat them"

I think you meant Dr John Etherington, and here is the quotation in context, which is quite different from your selective version.
"Failure to payback energy and CO2. It is often said that wind turbines fail to pay back the energy and CO2 cost of their manufacture and erection, or even that the CO2 emission from cement manufacture alone is enough to offset the lifetime saving of CO2 by a turbine. All of these assertions are untrue. Don't repeat them - there is enough to complain about in wind power without resorting to easily exposed misinformation but for more detail see Roads (below) and Payback time for energy and CO2 (section 5)."

http://www.countryguardian.net/The%20Case%20Against%20Wind%20%27Farms%27.pdf

[Rheghead]

I think you meant Dr John Etherington, and here is the quotation in context, which is quite different from your selective version.
"Failure to payback energy and CO2. It is often said that wind turbines fail to pay back the energy and CO2 cost of their manufacture and erection, or even that the CO2 emission from cement manufacture alone is enough to offset the lifetime saving of CO2 by a turbine. All of these assertions are untrue. Don't repeat them - there is enough to complain about in wind power without resorting to easily exposed misinformation but for more detail see Roads (below) and Payback time for energy and CO2 (section 5)."

http://www.countryguardian.net/The%20Case%20Against%20Wind%20%27Farms%27.pdf

Thanks for backing me up

[bekisman]

The link says this too: "Clean, renewable forms of energy, such as wind power, are essential if we are to tackle climate change. They are also vital in ending the threat of nuclear power, which would leave a legacy of nuclear waste that will remain a threat to our health and the environment for hundreds of thousands of years
." Yes2Wind website Untrue. The variable nature of wind power prevents it from displacing nuclear generation which provides continuous peak output and is best suited to ‘base-load’ supply. Wind power is irrelevant to any discussion of nuclear as it cannot provide such uninterrupted generation.

But then this is just an opinion...

[Rheghead]

But then this is just an opinion...
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]

kudos to you that it is just opinion.

[mi16]

To be fair if we will require an alternate power source as a back up for the wind turbines but nuclear is not the solution.
You cant just switch a nuclear power station on and off like that.
I guess we would need fossil fuel powered stations as the back up.

[sids]

I will make John Hetherington [sic] look like Chris Huhne.

Can you really do that?

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46962000/jpg/_46962274_etherington_226.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-T3si-7tCZss/TlGNKGO-7TI/AAAAAAAAXpM/rGM23bDxCsk/s1600/chrissie-hynde.jpg

[ywindythesecond]

I will ask again. Who knows anything about Wathegar Windfarm?

[sids]

I will ask again. Who knows anything about Wathegar Windfarm?

Is it a windfarm at Wathegar?

What do I win?

[Rheghead]

Can you really do that?

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46962000/jpg/_46962274_etherington_226.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-T3si-7tCZss/TlGNKGO-7TI/AAAAAAAAXpM/rGM23bDxCsk/s1600/chrissie-hynde.jpg

You bad boy for destroying my teenage dream

[ywindythesecond]

Thanks for backing me up
This is the important bit you missed out
"Don't repeat them - there is enough to complain about in wind power without resorting to easily exposed misinformation but for more detail see Roads (below) and Payback time for energy and CO2 (section 5)."

[Rheghead]

This is the important bit you missed out
"Don't repeat them - there is enough to complain about in wind power without resorting to easily exposed misinformation but for more detail see Roads (below) and Payback time for energy and CO2 (section 5)."


Oh ywindy I've a lot to say about the other bits, I was just confirming Etherington's misinformation that the anti wind stuff are guilty of spreading, you are not guiltless either are you?

[ywindythesecond]

Is it a windfarm at Wathegar?

What do I win?
It is two actually, and unless you are the landowner, developer or generator, then I'm afraid you are the loser. Do you know where Wathegar is?

[bekisman]

kudos to you that it is just opinion.
But then this is just an opinion...
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE] Eh? whats triple SIZE?
Anyway I'm off to bed, doing me bit to save the planet, by turnng me PC and monitor off (you should try it)

[ywindythesecond]

Oh ywindy I've a lot to say about the other bits, I was just confirming Etherington's misinformation that the anti wind stuff are guilty of spreading, you are not guiltless either are you?
Its a fair cop Reggy! I am guilty of spreading truthful verifiable information. Please have mercy on me GUV!!

[Rheghead]

But then this is just an opinion...
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE] Eh? whats triple SIZE?
Anyway I'm off to bed, doing me bit to save the planet, by turnng me PC and monitor off (you should try it)

You may think that being a poster boy for energy frugelness is the key for saving the planet? We all like to think we are doing our bit but getting our political leaders to act on our attitudes is more effective than getting them to act on our behavior.

[mi16]

Having flicked through his carbon payback section, I note he has not quoted the numbers involved in the construction, instead opting for a sweeping statement.
I note his Co2 saving calculation is based on a dirty coal fired power station and not some of the cleaner methods (or even an average figure)

Have a look at this government document from 2006 http://www.parliament.uk/documents/post/postpn268.pdf
Which details that free flowing hydro tops the table of C02 followed by onshore wind, nuclear and then offshore wind with the rest bringing up the rear.
What is more intresting is the future figures which puts biomass head and shoulders in front of the rest.

[mi16]

It is two actually, and unless you are the landowner, developer or generator, then I'm afraid you are the loser. Do you know where Wathegar is?

For those who cannot be bothered to google it http://www.whirlwindrenewables.com/wathegar-site-layout-2.pdf
Windy give us the story!

[ywindythesecond]

I give up!

[mi16]

I give up!

your call dude

[Penelope Pitstop]

Out of interest Penelope P, what do you (or for that matter any other reader) know about Wathegar Wind Farm?

Wathegar Wind Farm? Only that it is 8 km west of Wick!


Your question sounds a little accusing if you don't mind me saying so.

[ywindythesecond]

Wathegar Wind Farm? Only that it is 8 km west of Wick!


Your question sounds a little accusing if you don't mind me saying so.

I'm very sorry if my question sounded accusing PP, it certainly wasn't meant that way. As you said some of us on the.org are knowledgeable about wind turbines, but we are also knowledgeable about the planned wind farm development for Caithness. I was curious to know what you knew about Wathegar because that is the biggest wind development issue in Caithness at the moment, and it has the ability to affect all our lives in the future. I know nothing about current issues around playgroups, care of the elderly, bus services, schools closing down or any other local hot issue which may be of general concern at the moment so I don't expect you to know about the things which concern me at the moment. But this particular issue is something which will concern you in the future, and now is the only time you would be able to do anything to influence the outcome.
Caithness has become used to the two relatively small wind developments at Bilbster and Achairn. They are not particularly intrusive and do not seem to have generated much opposition or resentment. They are proportionate to the landscape and the needs of the County.
Wathegar Wind Farm doesn't exist at present, but Planning Permission was granted for five turbines next to Bilbster (Flex Hill) Windfarm earlier this year, and these will appear between Bilbster and Achairn (Stirkoke) Windfarm in due course. Before Wathegar Windfarm has even been started to be built, an extension has been applied for for another nine turbines (Wathegar 2) which will fill the space between Achairn and Bilbster, and actually extend beyond Achairn in the view from Tesco. What is presently 6 acceptable turbines are on the brink of becoming 20. This would be the view from Tesco's car park. http://www.caithnesswindfarms.co.uk/Wath 2.jpg Achairn windfarm is looking to add a further three turbines.
A windfarm bigger than Causeymire between Watten and Haster that most people in Caithness are unaware of, and will get unless Caithness wakes up now to what is in the pipeline.

[orkneycadian]

For someone that insists that the Wathegar Wind Farm thread be kept on topic, havn't you dragged this Forss Wind Turbine thread well off the beaten track into duplicate posting territory ywindy?