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sandyr1
20-Nov-11, 00:09
Word from Europe////
Social Assistance is to be denied to those who are involved in the Occupy Wave....
If they can protest all day they can get a job!

golach
20-Nov-11, 00:35
Word from Europe////
Social Assistance is to be denied to those who are involved in the Occupy Wave....
If they can protest all day they can get a job!

I am for that Sandy........making the centre of Edinburgh look like a tinks camp

sandyr1
20-Nov-11, 04:10
What gets me is that these people who 'occupy' are mostly on Social Assistance and the homeless who are there for a good meal.
They live in unsanitary conditions and won't let other people enjoy the parks and adjacent grounds.
The sincere ones are there for what we all know is Corporate greed but this is not going to solve anything....There must be another way!

Our 'Occupy Lot' in Toronto are now marching to 'Evict' the Mayor of the City, who is trying to do exactly what they want and eliminate the Corporate Greed.. He is cutting back on perks for Officials.....Honestly they give the people who want real change a bad name.
Anyway it won't be too long before it's 10 & 20 below zero.....

brandy
20-Nov-11, 09:51
but yet in america where it was kicked off this is what the protectors and peace keepers are doing about it..
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/19/us/california-pepper-spray/index.html?hpt=us_c1
if the UK had to deal with what the american people do.. i can understand the protests... but the British have so much here!

sandyr1
20-Nov-11, 15:55
One isolated incident...So glad you are happy.

golach
20-Nov-11, 15:59
.. but the British have so much here!

Never thought I would see the day when I see an American being jealous of us Brits. [lol]

brandy
20-Nov-11, 16:16
i wouldnt say jealous, but having lived in both countries i cant express how much better off the British people have it as a whole. and as a one off incident.. check out youtube.. you will find its really not.
i love my adopted country and think that i am trully blessed to be able to live here.

sandyr1
20-Nov-11, 16:17
The difference between the US/ North America and the UK is the population. NA has close to 400 million people compared to the UK at 55 million.
Am a little surprised that B would put that pic/video up.
These were as I understand it, Campus Police who can be said to be 'less than well trained'.
And to highlight 'one' incident is 'less than fair'.
The US have no more probs that you see in Week or Kaitness ..... or Inverness, as I saw a few months ago!

Oh ma Gawd.. Now Youtube has taken over from Facebook! Ohhhhh Deary me!
You can get on Youtube whatever you want/...............


And I have also lived in 3 Countries and perhaps the 'customs' are a bit different, but there are good and bad around the World!..

Maybe another 'cop hater'!

brandy
20-Nov-11, 16:33
def. not a cop hater, umm wonder how you got that from my post?
i do not like the way that so called power corrupts those with authority.
i could tell you horror stories from back home, how the general populace are more afraid of the police
than the bad guys.
i can also tell you stories of how cops ive known have gone beyond the call.. to do things to help those who never even asked, yet needed.
there are good and bad every where.. but the video i put on above was to highlight, a very common problem that you get between police and protesters back home.
i saw a video the other day where a marine gave living heck to a whole group of NYPD finest. he was in uniform and laid into them for what they were doing to the protesters, and
it was strange to see a whole group of armed offices head bowed caught like children being bad, while getting a huge dressing down.

sandyr1
20-Nov-11, 16:36
Yup...my comment answered.....The American Police are 'Not' bad/ go live in a non Democratic Country and you will learn to love your enforcement people.

golach
20-Nov-11, 17:51
i wouldnt say jealous, but having lived in both countries i cant express how much better off the British people have it as a whole. and as a one off incident.. check out youtube.. you will find its really not.
i love my adopted country and think that i am trully blessed to be able to live here.

Having lived and worked in your country and sailed the world to many others, I do not necessarally agree with you Brandy, I see no harm in the way police treat demonstrators such as those in California and in Oakland.
We saw in the UK in June in London, Manchester ect what happens when the Police wear kid gloves, my thoughts are with the police, they are damned if the do and damned if the dont.

secrets in symmetry
20-Nov-11, 18:11
but yet in america where it was kicked off this is what the protectors and peace keepers are doing about it..
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/19/us/california-pepper-spray/index.html?hpt=us_c1
if the UK had to deal with what the american people do.. i can understand the protests... but the British have so much here!I watched the video, and I can only conclude that the campus police were guilty of a massive over-reaction. The students were sitting motionless, how can they have caused a safety issue? The other students just seemed to be watching.

UC Davis is one of the top public universities in the United States, its students are future leaders of the USA, the protestors were surely not rioters! American Campus Police usually deal with low level issues, so I would bet in this case that they were out of their depth, and they (or perhaps just one officer) made a massive error of judgement.

The University Chancellor has defended the campus police in public. I predict that she will not have much support from her peers, and she will be forced to resign sooner rather than later.

sandyr1
20-Nov-11, 18:13
Brandy....Power, however it may manifest itself is inclined to 'corrupt'.
Fortunately, in all walks of life, be it....Business, Politics or the Polis, it is quite few and far between. My objection to your Graphic example of the Pepper Spray is that out of all the S........... that Law Enforcement takes at these Demos one bad example is given!....And it is not Mace or CS Gas, it is finely ground Cayenne Pepper, which really does not hurt one at all.. just a bit of eye watering. I have experienced it as I have the Gas, and there is no comparison.
Police, Bye Law Enforcement, Sanitary people etc etc are tied up with this and as always the Real Criminals are 'doing their thing'...whatever that may be.
My previous post shows that in Toronto they are now going after the Mayor of the City, who is the one trying to do away with excess spending.

Yes they are probs but this type of action does no good to anyone...
Generally they are damned if they take them out of the Parks and they are damned if they leave them there....I think it was Vancouver where they left them and a woman died of a Drug Overdose..so the Cops are blamed for allowing that.
Perhaps I am a wee bitty biased but I have 'been around the block', perhaps a bitty like Golach, and altho' I don't agree with everything that is done by everyone, we have to support the status quo....or else..................

And SIS you may be correct... They may never have seen anything like this/ Campus Polis are not used to anything like this....and everyone thinks differently about these issues...on the other hand there may, as in some cities, people on the other side who want them out. And by sitting there and the other side demanding they leave, confrontations have arisen whereby, 'Force may be used to combat a Breach of the peace'..
That is Common Law/ guess where we got that....Britain!

secrets in symmetry
20-Nov-11, 19:16
And SIS you may be correct... They may never have seen anything like this/ Campus Polis are not used to anything like this....Yes, they probably haven't seen anything like that - on the campus, at least. American campus police do the job that university/company security do in this country. They run the CCTV, they police the cycle paths, they dish out parking tickets - and they give on the spot fines for not coming to a complete stop at a Stop sign on empty campuses at 3am. Yes, this happened to a friend!

The officer who sprayed the students is finished at UC Davis - because no one will respect him - and if (as I suspect) he was not justified in his actions, I hope he (or whoever gave the order to spray) is charged with a serious offence.

Has winter come to Canada yet? When is your next Florida trip?

sandyr1
20-Nov-11, 21:37
Firstly Winter is somewhere, but it is 15/60 degs today and has bee quite warm for the past few weeks.
But rest assured it is somewhere out there. The West has been taking a hammering but the 4 Seasons is what makes Canada.

A thought from another source.
Many parks have trees/ shrubs/plaques honoring people of all ilk....and it seems a park in Toronto where the Occupy group are occupying is no exeption!
So this man goes down to the park every Sunday to tend the tree that was planted in his wife's memory severel years ago, and finds himself nearly ankle deep in Urine and other bodily fluids. Both from dogs and Humans!
He's a Tad upset that such desecration of his Wife's memory. Do you blame him...And secondly the bandits and thieves are making a comeback due to the huge numbers of Police being tied up with 'Occupy'.

Yes Florida.....sooner than later!

bekisman
20-Nov-11, 23:39
The officer who sprayed the students is finished at UC Davis - because no one will respect him - and if (as I suspect) he was not justified in his actions, I hope he (or whoever gave the order to spray) is charged with a serious offence.Oh you are SO prophetic http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15809742

Margaret M.
22-Nov-11, 19:58
i could tell you horror stories from back home, how the general populace are more afraid of the police
than the bad guys.


Brandy, I strongly disagree with your statement. As one of the general populace, I can assure you I have never been fearful of the police here and I have never personally heard anyone say they are or have been afraid.

sandyr1
22-Nov-11, 21:50
[QUOTE=brandy;905751]def. not a cop hater, umm wonder how you got that from my post?
i do not like the way that so called power corrupts those with authority.
i could tell you horror stories from back home, how the general populace are more afraid of the police
than the bad guys.

I just read Margaret M's comment and then re-read yours.....Am Amazed Brandy... Of course, perhaps certain areas and lifestyles may have precipitated these thoughts!

Perhaps a SURVEY of those on the org...Please comment on the Brandy's statement.

brandy
23-Nov-11, 03:02
i see that the neg part of the post has been quoted, but the positive part ignored.
your right sandy it could very well be a lifestyle and area thing.. it usually is the lower class and poor who find it harder.
demographically, i come from a very poor state that has a lot of cowboy law enforcement.
an example i can give you off the top of my head.. a young man that our family knew called emergency services for help.. he was talking about killing himself.. the police came out in force.stopped at the bottom of the drive, he walked out with a knife.. and they shot him 6 times in the chest and head as his mom and dad watched. i was pulled over for speeding one night, going 45 in a 35 zone at about 2am.. btw i knew most of the local cops as i worked in the 24hr shop they all came to for coffee....i was 20 years old had never been pulled in my life and scared to death.. the first officer was very nice.. older man.. asked for my licence and reg. no sooner had he said that, a young cop.. flys up in his car.. jumps out pulls his gun and puts it to my face. i could not even blink i was so scared. the older officer finally got him to put his gun away and move his car from the road.. and to tell you the truth.. im in shock at this stage.. shaking, crying and trying to find my licence and registration. the older cop.. just shakes his head and says .. dont worry about it.. and to feel free to sit there on the side of the road until im ok to drive. then leaves me.. middle of the night, in shock, alone on the side of a road with a pat on the hand.. saying lesson learned be a good girl.
saying that, the towns sherrif is still a friend on my facebook... my aunt speaks to him daily
went to church with half the police force,
and a several of my friends from school are in some form of law enforcement.. including a couple of my brothers who work for the police as private detectives.
so no..dont hate cops.. but do have a healthy fear of them.

brandy
23-Nov-11, 03:13
just out of curiosity sandy.. the post i made about being good and bad cops.. what makes it a terrible post? because i didnt stand up and say.. all men and women in law enforcement are outstanding citizens? i do understand its a very hard job, and it eats away at people to have to do the hard things they do. dosent mean they are all beyond reproach. they are people just like everyone else.
also, did want to comment on your post about pepper spray being harmless.. its not you know. it has even proved fatal in some cases.
this is just the def. of it and a list .. nothing graphic..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray

sandyr1
23-Nov-11, 04:02
Walking down the road can also be fatal on occasion/pepper spray is just that.. Pepper!
You have your opinions/ I have mine, and I am sure there is nobody on this site or nearly no one, who would make a comment such as yours.

I have worked with your 'cowboy cops'/ and lived around them and I am from Caithness/ Weapons were Uzis/Mac10's/Sawed off shotguns/ AK 47's., etc etc.,yes they are not perfect but neither are many of us!
The waitress/ staff/ Manager/ females in the Casper Wyoming Hilton Hotel carried 2 shot derringer in their boots or purses.. Guns are quite prevalent.
One cannot read the Road Signs in parts of Wyoming and Utah, as the signs are full of bullet holes! True!
Cops there have to be much more forewarned than in Canada or the UK.
Perhaps one should take a more balanced approach when commenting on very people who protect us. Again, not perfect like some people! and........
What you said was not balanced......

Incognit0
23-Nov-11, 13:54
Walking down the road can also be fatal on occasion/pepper spray is just that.. Pepper!

But it isn't just that - it is exremely concentrated and has carries added to aid absorption into the skin. Pepper spray is between 3 and 5 times hotter than a scotch bonnett pepper. The biomechanism of pepper is to cause respiratory discomfort via absorption into the mucus membranes. The pepper in nature irritates the mouth - inhalation can cause severe respiratory distress and even death...

sandyr1
23-Nov-11, 13:59
So can exhaust fumes, and as I said walking down the road....

Incognit0
23-Nov-11, 19:54
So can exhaust fumes, and as I said walking down the road....

Hardly comparable... Try again :roll:

sandyr1
23-Nov-11, 22:29
Hardly comparable... Try again :roll:

Don't have to...I know!

sandyr1
23-Nov-11, 22:37
One should read the 'Egypt' thread....
I wasn't going to comment but methinks the Avatar says it all/ part of the 'stooges'...Wowee!

gleeber
23-Nov-11, 22:47
I just love the org. It reminds me to be more grateful.
Its a good job the police are there but in Brandys link although one of them was doing the spraying there were plenty others doing nothing to stop him. Protests are not designed to be friendly although ive been on freindly porotests. Well ive only been on one but it was friendly. :lol:
He should be done for assualt and his workmates should get a severe talking to. Once the protestors start getting violent then let them have it up the nose.

sandyr1
23-Nov-11, 22:58
I agree with you.....Unless there is something which we don't know, then 'Assault with Weapon' it is.
I was on the Anti Vietnam one in I think '69 in London, where a woman beat me with a piece of wood on a stick...It said...'Equal pay for men and Women'!
Cut me up, but there was several hundred thousands of people there, so most who attacked the Police got away with it.
Hey.......Cops aint perfect, but who would you call when you are in trouble....

sandyr1
23-Nov-11, 23:03
Anyway getting back to reality...I just heard that the UK devalued the Pound approx 20 years ago/ I never knew that/ this was all brought up again today in Int'l news as 35% of German Bonds were not bought...
Seems Germany doesn't have the cash to bail out Italy.....we are all in for some trouble.....I also hear that our Banks are now going to take a hit...
So it's back to the issue of Social Assistance!

gleeber
23-Nov-11, 23:08
.....we are all in for some trouble.....
So it's back to the issue of Social Assistance!
What kind of trouble and whats it got to do with social assistance?
The pound was devalued in the 60s or early 70s.

sandyr1
23-Nov-11, 23:12
Int'l report out today which says that Italy and the UK devalued 20 years ago/ maybe they are wrong....there was also talk of doing it again/ thus the prob! Affects everyone/ everything.

gleeber
23-Nov-11, 23:13
Your right cheerful tonight sandy.

sandyr1
23-Nov-11, 23:20
Yes of course.....it's the news!!
Like to know what has and is going on around the World!
I mean I hung abound with women who carried small revolvers in their...wait for it..... Boots, and men, who were alledgely Street Musicians, who carriied UZIS and AK47's in their Guitar Cases! It does affect one. something like Cayenne Spray!

oldmarine
23-Nov-11, 23:25
I remember watching a person spitting on a Marine who had just returned from Vietnam. I scolded her and told her that he was only following orders and did only what he was told.

gleeber
23-Nov-11, 23:27
I imagine moving in those kind of circles increases the bloodflow. Theres a fine line between right and wrong although the lines wider between good and bad. I agree we need the police but they have to be kept under control. On the whole they do a great job but they need to show restraint up to a point.

sandyr1
23-Nov-11, 23:29
I remember watching a person spitting on a Marine who had just returned from Vietnam. I scolded her and told her that he was only following orders and did only what he was told.

Yes so true....I have heard about it and seen a few examples of the way those who were in Vietnam were treated.
I think one can only put it down to the ignorance of people.....No one knows how serving in some of these 'wars' affect people and then to get blamed for being there....very sad!

sandyr1
23-Nov-11, 23:34
I imagine moving in those kind of circles increases the bloodflow. Theres a fine line between right and wrong although the lines wider between good and bad. I agree we need the police but they have to be kept under control. On the whole they do a great job but they need to show restraint up to a point.

The comment of Bloodflow, and the skewed up lines of right and wrong are very well said by you. Like Oldmarine, no one knows how you will respond until you are in a situation//I dealt with it fairly well. Mind you I had practice in Lybster School...Ducking and weaving when Miss Robertson threw chalk and the odd duster, and getting the Belt from Brooks and MacIntyre...But they say that is what makes you strong!!
Lybster School in the 50's was such a fun place!
To Hector Millers for One fag! Mind you if we worked at nights we had money for 5 at the weekend! Those were Woodbines!

Oh...we also have an Independent Watchdog here and rightly so...

secrets in symmetry
23-Nov-11, 23:36
Int'l report out today which says that Italy and the UK devalued 20 years ago/ maybe they are wrong....there was also talk of doing it again/ thus the prob! Affects everyone/ everything.

The pound wasn't devalued 20 years ago, it was held artificially high in the ERM, supported by stupidly high interest rates - the policy that eventually led to John Major's demise. Because of this lunacy, the pound was essentially ejected from the ERM by the markets in September 1992. It then floated to a sensible level, and about 15 years of economic stability followed.

The pound has fallen significantly against the US dollar and the Euro since the current crisis began, but this wasn't an instant devaluation like the one in the 1960s.

As for the connection between walking down the street breathing exhaust fumes and getting sprayed with a pepper gun by out of control campus police for sitting down in the open air.... Er, there isn't one!

You're not having a good day Sandy. Could it be time to book a cheap flight to Miami? :cool:

sandyr1
23-Nov-11, 23:51
I did not equate getting hit with Spray and walking down the Street... I believe a charge of 'Assault with a Weapon' would fit well on the Dummmy...
What I said was that Cayenne Spray and walking on the Street would be close..
A study done when I lived in London, England in the late 60's revealed that one whiff of diesel fumes..the black ones, were equated to smoking 100 fags.
Cayenne pepper is the safest use of force deterrant used around the World...It has been researched muchly and Enforcement can now leave the CS Gas etc., which was extremely dangerous. We had to run thru CS Gas with a mask on, Mask off and then take it off and put it on several times. Appalling!
I am having a wonderful day...it was coolish today but warm again tomorrow for a few......

Sorry I got so excited about the Pepper I forgot to thank you for the info on the ERM..Is that like a left one with a hand or the rite one?

gleeber
23-Nov-11, 23:57
The big difference between spraying pepper in someones face and driving a vehicle that expels fumes is intent. Intent takes pepper into a completely different league.

gleeber
24-Nov-11, 00:12
Jim Callaghan was the labour chancellor who went cap in hand to the international monetary fund. You must have still been in England in those days Sandy.

secrets in symmetry
24-Nov-11, 00:19
Cayenne pepper is the safest use of force deterrant used around the World...It has been researched muchly and Enforcement can now leave the CS Gas etc., which was extremely dangerous.I would have tortured the starving students with the smell of free coffee and donuts - until they were tempted and imbibed.... It's a non-violent solution, and probably cheaper too. :cool:

ERM - European Exchange Rate Mechanism.

Seen on another thread: KW postcode = Key West? I like it. :cool:

secrets in symmetry
24-Nov-11, 00:20
Jim Callaghan was the labour chancellor who went cap in hand to the international monetary fund. You must have still been in England in those days Sandy.He was PM by then - not just chancellor!

sandyr1
24-Nov-11, 04:24
The big difference between spraying pepper in someones face and driving a vehicle that expels fumes is intent. Intent takes pepper into a completely different league.

Yes 'Intent', with the force of the law behind one.
The law of the land decrees that as much force as necessary may be used, or as little force as necessary may be used to effect a lawful purpose....

Left England in 71...Had heard of the ERM but didn't know much about it...interesting..Heard his name.....
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh Cops and Coffee and Donuts....Like a Horse and carriage!

Self appointed finest...eh SIS. Am very surprised that so many people on here are against relatively honest people doing an honest days work...A job that most people haven't got the guts to do...or cannot get into the occupation.....
It doth show one bones doesn't it! You of that ILK can have a little Circle .........!

sandyr1
24-Nov-11, 18:04
It is very sad to see how some of our so called Professionals have such attitudes towards certain people/ professions/ and the Law of the Land, which I feel is very evenly and fairly administered.......
We live in a wonderful civil society where we are safe and sound most of the time/ just think....we could have been born and brought up in one of those Countries that have no Civil Rights and Right of Redress. But the nay sayers are always at it...no wonder some of the younger people have an attitude towards any direction being given.

secrets in symmetry
24-Nov-11, 23:47
Could someone in Ontario please take that spade off Sgt Pepper before his hole gets so deep that the walls collapse on top of him?

bekisman
25-Nov-11, 00:08
Got a son in Richmond Hill; that close enough?;)

sandyr1
25-Nov-11, 04:22
I shall reply on this thread only. It's sad when the Three Stooges get together and gang up on someone because .....well you can add the rest.
Very very sad............
I thought we were having an intelligent conversation, but it seems not. Perhaps you should get out a wee bitty and see the World.......Yes Richmond Hill/enough said.
Again, why is it that someone with an independent mind has to buckle under to people that say....'I couldn't ever bring myself to hate you as I like'....Is that code for something? You didn't go to Lybster School! It's a wee bitty funny really.......

sandyr1
25-Nov-11, 04:28
Actually, it is as well to close this Thread as no useful purpose is had by keeping it open.. You are posting your garbage on another thread, so why would anyone want to duplicate same.