Ex servicemen sleeping rough

[Fran]

Watching the news tonight I was upset to see that 1000 ex servicemen who served their country in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are sleeping rough on pavements in London.
Their total belongings are all in a bag they carry around and they sit on pavements and sleep there in sleeping bags.
I find it hard to beleive this happens to our heroes in this day and age. Some have even committed suicide or are in mental hospitals because they cannot adjust to normal life after having everything provided for them in the services.
Some are lucky enough to find a bed in hostels, and the programme said some flats are being built for ex-servicemen.
With all the organisations, like SSAFA and The British Legion, the Earl Haig fund etcI dont know how this can happen. Surely they get army pensions and help from army welfare services.
, as well as social security payments. What a way to treat our servicemen .
Following the programme, I hope more will be done to give these poor men a comfortable home, especially for Christmas. Why are their families not doing something to help them?

[MadPict]

The help is there if they want it - many don't take it through stubborness or shame or some other reason. The 1000 ex servicemen are a drop in the ocean of all the other people sleeping rough. Not that it makes it right. They served their Queen and country and as a result have found adjusting to civvie life to much. Many have families, many have marriages which have failed, but all would probably get help from the various organisations if they only approached them....

[j4bberw0ck]

Ooooh, that's reassuring then; sacrifice your mental health on the altar of Mr Blair's Britain, and then realise through your illness that all you have to do is seek out one branch of thousands of the bureaucracy, where after filling out approximately two reams of paperwork, you may be given some help. Or not.

Wouldn't it be a little more confidence inspiring if the bureacracy sought out the ill, instead of sitting on their speading public sector backsides, drawing their generous pay and accumulating their index linked pensions, and twiddling pencils while waiting for those poor fools to come to their senses?

[dpw39]

After coming out of the sevices after 12 years in 1977, it took me nearly 20 years before I eventulaly settled down in Caithness my adopted home. It has been the longest place I have ever stayed in since my childhood, as the services can institutionalise you, as perfection in what we are trained to do, is not easily found in civvy street, and a lot of ex servicemen find it hard to cope with coming to terms with a society that keeps making the same mistake over and over again.

Clangers may have been dropped in the services, but only once, as the system would prevent it re-occuring, and I feel that personally due to some of the horrors I saw out in Hong Kong (Msao Tung (!) and the tortured bodies of men women and children being only 17 1/2 my self was quite traumatic, unfortunately, we never recieved counselling. Several tours in Northern Ireland, back in the dark days of 69/70 where quite stressfull as well, as the enemy looked and dressed like the locals, and the inbred culture of the countries children was horrendous to say the least.

So its no wonder our lads, whichever theatre of war they served in would end up with some psychological problems. Fortunatley, there is more help at hand these days, but still not enough.

These where once proud men and women who served our country and in some situations put their lives on the line for freedom and democracy, only to be cast aside through lack of understanding of what "institutionalisation" can do to any human being especially when they have served for several years.

After basic training (invariably 12 weeks) you can not be classed as a professional soldier until you have been under fire, bombed, spit at, and spent at least 5 years on active service in various parts of the world. Why we send "raw recruits" out to foreign countries with the minimum of training, and therefore putting their own and their comrades lives in danger, beggers belief.

I was army mad, and was a 22 year man, but got to a stage that the regular army was no longer a challenge I was looking for, and was seconded out on several occasions to various units, prior to being completely transferred out to the regiment of my choice, I bit my nose off to spite my face. One of the worst mistakes of my life, but with hindsight, one of the best, as I wasn't completely institutionalised, and from my military skills learnt to be able to survive better outdoors than I could in a city or town, sad as it may seem...

I'd hate to be a Chelsea Pensioner as I look awfull in a red tunic... :lol:

All homeless people have my sympathy, more so ex servicemen who seemed to have been left by the way-side of life in society.

Ciao,

[JAWS]

Just as a matter of interest, does anybody know where the figures have come from?

[caithness import]

I quote "many don't take it through stubborness or shame or some other reason"

Easy to say if you've never been in a streesful, change of life situation. I'm not assuming anything or judging but I'll shake any ex servicemans hand for having to put up with some of the things they experience and see.

I read recently that more falklands conflict veterans have committed suicide than actually lost their lives (255 i think) in 1982. That is a shamefull inditement on our government and the MOD.

Enough said. I don't have a great deal of experience on these things but I reckon that over a thousand people sleeping rough might.

[Ann]

Thanks for your inside story DPW; none of us who haven't served in the Forces can possibly know what it is like.

It is disgraceful in this "enlightened" age that our ex-service personnel don't get the support they truly deserve as soon as they leave the services. Surely that is the time to contact and follow up any support that they need?

[northener]

Just had my posting pulled for using a ..ahem.. naughty word. Apologies if I offended anyone.

Got told when I left the Royal Navy that it would take me at least the amount of years I had served to fully adjust to civilian life. I was at least 10 years out before I stopped thinking of the people around me as 'civvies'!

It's hard to adjust really, you are trained to think as a team and live as a team along with all the toleration and 100% trust that this entails. Suddenly you are plonked into a society (i'm talking mainly about work here) that is selfish, two faced and, although parroting the concept of teamwork, wouldn't know the true meaning of this if it stood up and smacked them between the eyes.

The result is that many ex-forces are left feeling that they do not belong to the society they are now in and many withdraw from it completely rather than admit defeat. Thats not to say that there aren't the usual issues regarding mental health etc.

For my sins, I am a member of the South Atlantic Medal Association which was formed for all servicemen and women who saw action during the Falklands war, I couldn't comment with a 100% authority on the suicide figures quoted by Caithness Import, but I'm pretty certain I've come across those figures myself.

Is there an easy answer? The reply to that is no.

Society has, for hundreds of years, dumped it's fighting men, its so-called 'heroes', as soon as thay are surplus to requirement. It will be the same after Afghanistan and Iraq, lots of tripe about 'our brave boys' and then dump 'em on the streets as quick as we can. No use to the normal world. Who wants to listen to some has-been with his war stories? - probably making most of it up.

Sound familiar?

Am I bitter about my experiences? No.

Am I bitter about how society rewards those who literally risk death or disablement? You bet I am.

[Ann]

"It's hard to adjust really, you are trained to think as a team and live as a team along with all the toleration and 100% trust that this entails. Suddenly you are plonked into a society (i'm talking mainly about work here) that is selfish, two faced and, although parroting the concept of teamwork, wouldn't know the true meaning of this if it stood up and smacked them between the eyes."

Thanks for that Northerner; gives us a bit of an insight into what ex-service people have to endure and how petty people can be when not faced with "real" adversity.

Maybe it is time that more people like yourself were given a voice for the media to take up. After all they are always looking for stories to tell and it would be good if they were true ones which don't need exaggeration or "media adjustments".

[MadPict]

I quote:
Easy to say if you've never been in a streesful, change of life situation.

Been there, done it and got the T-Shirts.

I didn't post my original reply lightly - I wondered if it might be taken in the wrong light, but the support is there for servicemen and women. NOT from the government but from other charitable organisations.
Yes there are many servicemen living rough, unable to cope with the transition from service life, maybe suffering problems as a result of what they may have seen or done, and it can be a shock to go from the 'safe arms' of the forces to the big wide world but 100,000's ex service personnel make the move each year without a problem.

The plight of the homeless is a serious one, be they 30 year old ex squaddies or 17 year old girls. In light of the support illegal immigrants get when they enter the UK it is a disgrace that we are unable to look after our own citizens first.....

Ducks down into me trench.....

[bigpete]

Did 15 years in the cake, saw things (dogs eating kids in Aden after we reached a village that had been shelled, I was 19 then, helping to pick up bits of people after bombs in NI, etc) yes it is hard to adjust after serving in a military environment for any length of time. I was lucky. I went straight into the Fire Service immediately on discharge. It (was) run on Naval lines in that there was discipline, quite funny in that in the 12 week training they could not pick me up on room inspection, immaculate bedpack etc - I was once caught as I had "dirt inside my room lightbulb".?
Being with a group of like-minded blokes, some ex-services, where you have to rely totally on your mates is very similar to a military environment, the start of Watch shift; parading, saluting (sometimes) calling seniors 'Sir'.. it was a gradual wind-down. The sights were similar, in the Forces, it happened;' 'bang!' done, immediate. Fire Service it was the aftermath, house fires, smoke deaths, but there was a similarity to the Forces; we attended one incident where a minibus had smashed into the back of a stalled lorry, the mini bus driver got out but the one passenger was trapped by his legs, the van caught fire, by the time we arrived he was dead. Using shovels to lever the body out to lay on a salvage sheet our task was interrupted by a divisional officer who had just arrived. "any probies [probationers] here"? he asked. Yes we said "Harry" he's in the appliance listening for the radio, (well he'd only finished training a week ago) "get him here" says the D.O. Harry duly arrives whereupon the D.O. grabs Harry by the scruff of the neck drags him past us lot and rams Harry's face down to within a couple of inches of the smouldering body "get used to it boy, you'll see a lot of this"! and away he went.
My point is that the Forces and Fire Services outlook/mentality/twisted humour are intertwined and I for one am bloody glad I managed to get into that kind of Job.
One interesting thing after 11 years in the Brigade I had a rather nasty accident which left me crippled, but the funny thing was I had perfect health by way of blood pressure, lungs heart etc, but the minute I left the Service I developed High Blood Pressure! - still have.. Hmm.
But yes This Government does not give a toss about the cannon fodder they send to war zones or the after care later, it takes a hell of a lot to wind down after such life-changing events.. They are getting so short of blokes in the Army that my Son who did all the Active service areas; NI, Kosovo, Bosnia, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, and finally Iraq, he came out, was living in Canada, married a Canadian girl, in process of applying for Canadian citizenship then gets a letter from MOD "your services are required" and he was back over to Iraq for another six months, his wife not well pleased! But he's adjusting to civvy street, being in a different country experiencing new sites and sounds, although I know he's had periods of reflection and a certain amount of depression, but his new life has countered this.
Sorry for burbling on, but it is fully understandable that a number of blokes find it very hard to adjust, but then the great majorty of ex-services do.

[JAWS]

Northerner, don't apologise for being in the South Atlantic. Nobody from the Armed Forces should be expected to have to apologise for where they serve. People who join the Armed Forces do so to Serve their Country. If, where and when they see "active" service is decided by the politicians elected by us, not by them.

Bigpete, "dirt inside the light bulb?" You know darned well what you were punished for. You were punished for not having been punished, "and see that it doesn't happen again!"

Both of you, and others who have been in similar circumstances know that, even if you don't admit it openly, it never completely goes away. For most, it finds a level that they can live with but, even decades later, there are things which, out of the blue, will bring certain things flooding back. An odd comment, a picture, a news item, a film, something totally unexpected will suddenly slam into you and occasionally you won't even know what it is.

Ending up being like that doesn't always have to be caused by any single horrific or extremely dangerous situation. Sometimes it is as a result of a build up of things which, as individual incidents, can be coped with quite easily. The damage is done by the cumulative effect of one on top of another added to another and so on, in effect "Death from a Thousand Cuts".

What will not help matters in present day society is that the warped humour and sick jokes, which were previously used as a safety valve, are not now tolerated by society. That particular release has been sealed off, which only adds to the pressure.

I can understand how easy it is some ex-service people to feel unwanted by society and to see the only alternative as withdrawing themselves completely.

[jemmima-june]

I feel a great sadness for the ex servicemen out there wandering the streets as they find it hard to cope with "civvie st" but i also feel heart sore for the families of these people.
There are just as many mothers and wives bewildered by their leaving home and some dont even know if they are dead or alive. Not only do the service
personnel go through a rough time but families suffer as well and need as much help as the ones on the street.
I do have to agree though if you are of a different religion or nationality you have more chance of having something done to help you and it is wrong to be penalised for being British for ten generations