View Full Version : Is Dave blackmailing African nations?
Whether you think that aid to Africa is right or wrong, is it right that our Prime Minister should interfere in those countries laws and rules?
Either give aid on humanity grounds or don't give aid but please don't blackmail those countries by saying aid will be cut if you don't follow our way of thinking!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15524013
And its interesting that 41 out of 54 of these countries believe that their law on homosexuality is correct and proper, who is to say they are wrong, not our Prime Minister surely?
C3...........:eek:
Shouldnt be any foreign aid, regardless of what their Governments view of homosexuality is.
As usual C3 you are only reading the headlines. It is quite right that as a leader in the voluntary organisation that is the Commonwealth, that countrys that don't adhere to the civil and human rights rules that theyre signed up for,we hold to account. If aid that is freely given can be used as leverage then why not?
We are not talking about gays not being allowed in B & Bs here. Some of these countries enforce a 10 year prison sentence just for being gay. Should we just leave them to it?
As usual C3 you are only reading the headlines. It is quite right that as a leader in the voluntary organisation that is the Commonwealth, that countrys that don't adhere to the civil and human rights rules that theyre signed up for,we hold to account. If aid that is freely given can be used as leverage then why not?
We are not talking about gays not being allowed in B & Bs here. Some of these countries enforce a 10 year prison sentence just for being gay. Should we just leave them to it?
At the end of the day Duke it's foreign countries we are talking about and we have no right to interfere with their laws and rules whatever we do or do not donate to them.
Once again we are getting involved with the running of other countries instead of sorting our own problems out. I am sure Dave would be very miffed if some African leader started poking his nose into Britain's laws and rules!
Either give aid or don't but please don't blackmail countries into running them as our leader would like them run!!
C3............:eek:
Whether you think that aid to Africa is right or wrong, is it right that our Prime Minister should interfere in those countries laws and rules?
Either give aid on humanity grounds or don't give aid but please don't blackmail those countries by saying aid will be cut if you don't follow our way of thinking!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15524013
And its interesting that 41 out of 54 of these countries believe that their law on homosexuality is correct and proper, who is to say they are wrong, not our Prime Minister surely?
C3...........:eek:
I take a different view in that the countries that have a poor record in terms of human rights whether that be gay rights or the recognition of the contribution of women in society tend to be some of the poorest in the world. They are preventing these sections of society from fulfilling their respective role in their country's society. Human rights is therefore essential to prosperity for a country. We also need to reduce deficits so it is a win-win 'carrot and the stick' situation imho.
weezer 316
31-Oct-11, 20:28
At the end of the day Duke it's foreign countries we are talking about and we have no right to interfere with their laws and rules whatever we do or do not donate to them.
Once again we are getting involved with the running of other countries instead of sorting our own problems out. I am sure Dave would be very miffed if some African leader started poking his nose into Britain's laws and rules!
Either give aid or don't but please don't blackmail countries into running them as our leader would like them run!!
C3............:eek:
lol @ bazeye. I guarentee you think the uber rich should be taxed more too you utter hypocrite!
As for you eck, im quite fine with with holding aid for foreign governments under a few conditions, such as corruption, lack of transparen and a basic violation of human rights. North korea is probably the most glaring example, but I for one am happy we have someone trying to help the poeple who are being oopressed in these countries. Thats miore important than the fact its accross a national boundry surely?
Cameron is not my favourite person but he has a point. We should not give humanitarian aid to those that aren't humanitarian. Considering most aid is lost to corruption anyway we really need to give it to communities or certain charity organisations. Even if 99% of people think something that doesn't make it right.
Whether you think that aid to Africa is right or wrong, is it right that our Prime Minister should interfere in those countries laws and rules?
Either give aid on humanity grounds or don't give aid but please don't blackmail those countries by saying aid will be cut if you don't follow our way of thinking!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15524013
And its interesting that 41 out of 54 of these countries believe that their law on homosexuality is correct and proper, who is to say they are wrong, not our Prime Minister surely?
C3...........:eek:
Hmmm...let me see if I understand this: it is not OK for David Cameron to tell the Ugandan government what they should be doing but it is OK for the Ugandan government to tell two consenting adults what they can and cannot do in private? Talk about a double standard there, Honey.
Either give aid on humanity grounds or don't give aid but please don't blackmail those countries by saying aid will be cut if you don't follow our way of thinking!!!
I don't see it as blackmail. I consider it as terms and conditions. Take it or leave it.
And its interesting that 41 out of 54 of these countries believe that their law on homosexuality is correct and proper, who is to say they are wrong, not our Prime Minister surely?
Of course not. But we've made a habit of changing the ways other countries run their affairs. Forcing our democracy on them.
Whether you think that aid to Africa is right or wrong,
I think, in general, it's wrong. As is giving "aid" to countries with nuclear weapons.
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
John Little
31-Oct-11, 22:35
Interesting read...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/30/nuclear-powers-weapons-spending-report
Should Scotland be giving aid and not 'Britain!
Angel...
bluechesse
01-Nov-11, 08:54
I take a different view in that the countries that have a poor record in terms of human rights whether that be gay rights or the recognition of the contribution of women in society tend to be some of the poorest in the world. They are preventing these sections of society from fulfilling their respective role in their country's society. Human rights is therefore essential to prosperity for a country. We also need to reduce deficits so it is a win-win 'carrot and the stick' situation imho.
That's quite a well thought out view on the situation. I hadn't considered it in that context before.
I would add that, if no pressure is exerted on countries such as this to change their ways and improve human rights, more and more people will leave their home country and seek refuge in countries where they will be treated better. The UK is an example of such a country. Some will do this legally, but many will come illegally as immigrants. This, as we are all aware, is costing this country a fortune.
So if no pressure is brought on these countries to change, and we keep up the flow of foreign aid regardless, we loose two fold.
bluechesse
01-Nov-11, 08:57
Should Scotland be giving aid and not 'Britain!
Angel...
Maybe Im missing something obvious here, but could you explain what you mean by this?
lol @ bazeye. I guarentee you think the uber rich should be taxed more too you utter hypocrite!
Go on then, I give up, youve got me there. :confused
John Little
01-Nov-11, 17:53
Weezer - here's summat to get thee teeth into.
http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20110824.htm
Yes I could bluechesse!
Angel...
weezer 316
01-Nov-11, 22:06
Interesting read. I agree entirely the US is declining, its little wonder with people like old marine in congress and in the whitehouse for the past 30 years bar clinton. This blaming of the rich, banks and large institutions is pretty stupid and short sighted and just another form of ignorance to me.
I own my own house yet I only earn £15k a year and have a child to look after, or rather a teenager. Last year I was on holiday in turkey, and I have Sky HD, an Xbox, PC, a fully fuitted kitchen, a converatory/sunroom, and i am learnign to drive. My debt is £0 bar my mortgage which i can afford on less than my wage , and I can afford to do all these things becuase I budget properly and dont spend what I dont have. The amount of people i know that blame the banks/govt/everyone else for their money woes when they earn what I earn or more but are totally unable to beave themself financially is crazy,and many of them have have far less financial pressure than me.
So in short, I think peoples, and when i say people I mean rich and poor, greed and their inability to plan, be repsonsible and not spend what they havent got is the issue the world faces, not the big companies or governments. My younger cousin wouldnt get out his bed after 2 days to wash the dishes in his job he had, despite the fact hes totally without slkills and then sits back and mains about how bansk screw people.
Like I say, its the poeple that are the problem.
Interesting read. I agree entirely the US is declining, its little wonder with people like old marine in congress and in the whitehouse for the past 30 years bar clinton. This blaming of the rich, banks and large institutions is pretty stupid and short sighted and just another form of ignorance to me.
I own my own house yet I only earn £15k a year and have a child to look after, or rather a teenager. Last year I was on holiday in turkey, and I have Sky HD, an Xbox, PC, a fully fuitted kitchen, a converatory/sunroom, and i am learnign to drive. My debt is £0 bar my mortgage which i can afford on less than my wage , and I can afford to do all these things becuase I budget properly and dont spend what I dont have. The amount of people i know that blame the banks/govt/everyone else for their money woes when they earn what I earn or more but are totally unable to beave themself financially is crazy,and many of them have have far less financial pressure than me.
So in short, I think peoples, and when i say people I mean rich and poor, greed and their inability to plan, be repsonsible and not spend what they havent got is the issue the world faces, not the big companies or governments. My younger cousin wouldnt get out his bed after 2 days to wash the dishes in his job he had, despite the fact hes totally without slkills and then sits back and mains about how bansk screw people.
Like I say, its the poeple that are the problem.
Well done weezer but never ever forget that it's the top 50 earners of this country that pay for the services that you consume!!!
(or so I have been lead to believe)...lol
C3.............:roll::lol:;)
weezer 316
01-Nov-11, 22:22
Oh they do indeed. I coudlnt afford healthcre without subsidy from the highest earners, and neither could you.
Like I say, you can do alot when you budget properly. I mind hearing some mroon on the radio a few weeks ago moaning about the interest on her load she had taken out. She thne said "i suppose I better get a job" and f you dont belive me martin1 I think his username is was there and heard it with me. its people liek that who are causing the world to fall apart, not Warren buffett.
Oh they do indeed. I coudlnt afford healthcre without subsidy from the highest earners, and neither could you.
Like I say, you can do alot when you budget properly. I mind hearing some mroon on the radio a few weeks ago moaning about the interest on her load she had taken out. She thne said "i suppose I better get a job" and f you dont belive me martin1 I think his username is was there and heard it with me. its people liek that who are causing the world to fall apart, not Warren buffett.
But surely weezer you have spent money you don't have by having a mortgage? Isnt a mortgage a loan? You have bought a house that you cant afford? Sorry but it sounds like a bit of double standards there....you borrow money to buy a home yet brag that you can afford holidays abroad, have sky and xbox etc, etc!!
Sorry Weez but I think you have been sussed!!!
C3..............(Debt free, always has been and always will be)!!!....:roll:;)
weezer 316
01-Nov-11, 22:40
well i can afford it, thats the point. You need to pay to live somewhere dont you? I can either pay a council never ending rents, or pay a nice bank who are nice enought to loan me tens of thousands of pounds. Its a loan alright but you consider it a loan like something off an advert then I am at a loss. Bare in mind my morgage is cheaper than the council rent I was in 6 years ago!
Also, my mortgage will end. Rent never will.
So how is that any kind of double standards?
But surely weezer you have spent money you don't have by having a mortgage? Isnt a mortgage a loan? You have bought a house that you cant afford?
I don't think an affordable mortgage should be seen as a debt.
It is an expense. Even an investment.
In most cases I think it is better to buy a proper with a mortgage than consign yourself to (ever rising) rent until the day you die.
bluechesse
02-Nov-11, 09:20
Yes I could bluechesse!
Angel...
And shall you? Or am I doomed to for ever ponder you inner thoughts on this subject?
...It is an expense. Even an investment...
I don't think people should view a house as an investment I think that's part of the problem that caused all the recent economic stuff. The reality is this. The housing market crashed because a house is built so that people can live in it. Not so that real estate tycoons can buy and sell them like stocks and bonds pushing their value into the stratosphere or rent them out at extortionate prices, that's when they stopped being homes, and started being the housing market.
Another problem I have with mortgages is that it ties you to a location.
I own my own house yet I only earn £15k a year and have a child to look after, or rather a teenager. Last year I was on holiday in turkey, and I have Sky HD, an Xbox, PC, a fully fuitted kitchen, a converatory/sunroom, and i am learnign to drive. My debt is £0 bar my mortgage which i can afford on less than my wage , and I can afford to do all these things becuase I budget properly and dont spend what I dont have. The amount of people i know that blame the banks/govt/everyone else for their money woes when they earn what I earn or more but are totally unable to beave themself financially is crazy,and many of them have have far less financial pressure than me...
...Like I say, you can do alot when you budget properly. I mind hearing some mroon on the radio a few weeks ago moaning about the interest on her load she had taken out. She thne said "i suppose I better get a job" and f you dont belive me martin1 I think his username is was there and heard it with me. its people liek that who are causing the world to fall apart, not Warren buffett.
I preface this by saying that I'm fairly left leaning though to be honest I have opinions all over the political spectrum and some at both extremes.
I kind of agree (though I do think some rich people are to blame for some problems); At some point personal responsibility has to enter into it, that's not to say greed and profiteering by financial institutions and corporations doesn't cause problems though. A while back I heard people on the radio making 40k and more complaining when the extra money they got for having children was being cut. I was quite frankly shocked as I lived fairly comfortably as a student on a lot less than that (somewhere between 5-7k a year depending on summer and part time jobs), granted I wasn't paying council tax, being taxed on that and didn't have children.
weezer 316
02-Nov-11, 13:31
I certianly view it as an investment, as in it provides a place to stay and some measure of financial security. Why you would pay rent is beyond me when you can buy. You are literally shooting yourself in the foot, particularly long term.
You are tied to a location, but at the same time you also tied to a location renting. If you own you can rent your house out and move or sell.
I suppose what I trying too say after all that is that the current capitalist system isnt the issue, as it enables people of modest means to buy a home, which simply wasnt the case many years ago. And the anger towards the bankers is a bit stupid when the current cuts of the govt are based on the fact the govt has spent loads of money it didnt have, without a plan to pay it back. Anger should be directed there.
The rich are certianly to blame for some probelms of society (the pay of ceo's rising 50% in a year is pretty ludicrous to say the least) and contributes towards the attitude of some of the more short sigthed people on this forum.
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