Sell your granny for a poke o' chips...

[Humerous Vegetable]

Is there nothing that the Lib-Dems won't do to hang on to their wee bit of power? In their 2010 manifesto (the one the current poodles were elected by) they promised that they would hold a yes/no vote on EU membership. That was the same manifesto that promised no tuition fees for university students........
Are they allowing the electorate a vote on this very important question? The Tory whips, who tell them what to do, say no. So much for the Lib-Dems, who apparently can't find their own backsides without a Tory and a compass.

[Corrie 3]

It's just more evidence that they are only in it for themselves, no wonder John Thurso is keeping his head down these days.

Liberal Democrats will be no more after the next election, I can see UKIP and the BNP getting more votes than the Tory poodles!!

C3...........[disgust][disgust][disgust]

[tonkatojo]

Is this a serious question, even ming Campbell looks embarrassed not to mention Clegg squirming in his next to Cameron seat trying to look supportive like a nodding dog. But don't forget they inherited this.

[Rheghead]

Libdemian Rhapsody ♪♫Anywhere the wind blows...♫♪

[ducati]

Any half wit (not withstanding Tory backbenchers) can tell that this is not the time for half earsed attempts at causing rucksions about leaving Europe. Pure infantile shenanigans from peeps that should know better.

And if you are threatening to vote one way or another after the debate then what is the point?:roll:

[tonkatojo]

Any half wit (not withstanding Tory backbenchers) can tell that this is not the time for half earsed attempts at causing rucksions about leaving Europe. Pure infantile shenanigans from peeps that should know better.

And if you are threatening to vote one way or another after the debate then what is the point?:roll:

Taking your view, could you explain the point of the flagship crap on bringing these parliament debates through public requests by petitions if the government of the day says it does not matter about petitions it will not change tack anyway. What is wrong with trading with the rest of the world and the Great British Commonwealth with out the millstone of Europe union dictation.

[Humerous Vegetable]

Any half wit (not withstanding Tory backbenchers) can tell that this is not the time for half earsed attempts at causing rucksions about leaving Europe. Pure infantile shenanigans from peeps that should know better.

And if you are threatening to vote one way or another after the debate then what is the point?:roll:

It's not about whether we leave the EU or not, it's about the Lib-Dems reneging on yet another manifesto promise. The YouGov website was set up, rightly or wrongly, to give the ordinary citizen the right to raise online, issues which concerned them. If the issue raised 100,000 votes, they were obliged to debate it in the House of Commons. We won't get the chance to "vote one way or another" because the Tories have decided we're too stupid to decide for ourselves and the Lib-Dem sock puppets are running along behind, as usual.

[ducati]

Taking your view, could you explain the point of the flagship crap on bringing these parliament debates through public requests by petitions if the government of the day says it does not matter about petitions it will not change tack anyway. What is wrong with trading with the rest of the world and the Great British Commonwealth with out the millstone of Europe union dictation.

Because currently half our exports go to the millstone and half or more of the development funding that Scotland recieves comes from Europe. More than half current inward investment in the UK comes from Europe. There's three reasons, care to come back with a straight banana or a renamed meat pie?

[ducati]

It's not about whether we leave the EU or not, it's about the Lib-Dems reneging on yet another manifesto promise. The YouGov website was set up, rightly or wrongly, to give the ordinary citizen the right to raise online, issues which concerned them. If the issue raised 100,000 votes, they were obliged to debate it in the House of Commons. We won't get the chance to "vote one way or another" because the Tories have decided we're too stupid to decide for ourselves and the Lib-Dem sock puppets are running along behind, as usual.

Any party has the right to expect the majaroty of members to tow the party line in any debate. Why should this be any different? Labour are doing the same.

[Humerous Vegetable]

It wasn't their party line in their manifesto when they were trying to get us to vote for them. It's only become their party line since the Tories told them it was.

[ducati]

It wasn't their party line in their manifesto when they were trying to get us to vote for them. It's only become their party line since the Tories told them it was.

I dont know why I am arguing, a hundred thousand sun readers can't be wrong

[Rheghead]

Because currently half our exports go to the millstone and half or more of the development funding that Scotland recieves comes from Europe. More than half current inward investment in the UK comes from Europe. There's three reasons, care to come back with a straight banana or a renamed meat pie?

I would hazard a guess that nothing will change in two of those respects after cessation, of course Scotland will not get development funding from EU but then the UK will be able to cut the middleman on that front.

I would hazard a guess that the EEC was our biggest trading partner before joining and will continue to be if we ever leave.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-EU, the EU is a force for good in a lot of ways, it is just that if we are to be proud of our democracy then they should give us a vote on the future of our country instead of leaving it up to a bunch of MPs.

[tonkatojo]

I dont know why I am arguing, a hundred thousand sun readers can't be wrong

Not to mention the party that brought in these useless petitions.

[tonkatojo]

Any party has the right to expect the majaroty of members to tow the party line in any debate. Why should this be any different? Labour are doing the same.

Aye but three (3) wrongs don't make it right. But hats off to the ones speaking their own minds.

[tonkatojo]

Because currently half our exports go to the millstone and half or more of the development funding that Scotland recieves comes from Europe. More than half current inward investment in the UK comes from Europe. There's three reasons, care to come back with a straight banana or a renamed meat pie?

If you are that confident of quoting figures show some proof instead of hearsay. I personally think the remaining European EEC would still want to sell us their goods and there is no reason why not reciprocate the same deal. But does not Salmond think Scotland can stand on its own two feet with out subsidies, If he gets his way that could be with in 4 year or so. The funding Scotland receives is nowt compared to the billions going the other way mainly French farmers in the ridiculous CAP payments.

[ducati]

If you are that confident of quoting figures show some proof instead of hearsay. I personally think the remaining European EEC would still want to sell us their goods and there is no reason why not reciprocate the same deal. But does not Salmond think Scotland can stand on its own two feet with out subsidies, If he gets his way that could be with in 4 year or so. The funding Scotland receives is nowt compared to the billions going the other way mainly French farmers in the ridiculous CAP payments.

Look it up, I just keep abreast of current affairs. I'm sure our farmers would enjoy trying to do business without the subsidies, and Salmond is adament Scotland needs to be in Europe.

[ducati]

Motion was defeated so no referendum. Maybe next time (when we arn't fighting for economic survival).

[ducati]

Not to mention the party that brought in these useless petitions.

Why useless? The petition called for a backbench debate, a backbench motion, it was debated. Just because the result wasn't what you wanted, doesn't make it useless.

[tonkatojo]

[QUOTE=ducati;898679]Why useless? The petition called for a backbench debate, a backbench motion, it was debated. Just because the result wasn't what you wanted, doesn't make it useless.[/QUOTE

In your wisdom what is the purpose then, they would be better discussed in the pub at least the publican would get a result.

[highlandglen]

I don't often poke my head above the parapet, but..... Hi everybody
A short story for you..

Some years ago, when the origional referendum was held, I was sitting one Saturday evening in a Suffolk pub with my Father and five of his friends watching them play cribbage.
As I was "the lad" my job was to get in the rounds and sit in for anyone that needed to water the flowers.
As such I was allowed to venture my opinions sometimes, when asked by the older generation.

This particular day the subject was the Referendum, and having listened to the conversations all evening, I was asked my opinion.
I had been studying this over a number of weeks with the kind of fervour that only a young person, new to the idea that somebody could vote these important people seen on the T.V. in or out of a job, could have.

So, I then pronounced that I was against the U.K. joining and gave some. in my opinion, valid arguments to support this.
They listened in silence to this ( these mixed group of mainly working class men) and then after a glance at my Father to guage his likely reaction, they laughter and ridicule started.
O.K. it was lighthearted and designed to show that I was young and "would soon grow out of it" and was soon forgotten.

Fast forward to a couple of years later.
I was visiting home, having been living and working away for some time and was sitting in the same pub with a slightly larger group of people which included the people that were there that eventful night.
They eventually got onto the subject of that "bl**dy european interfering "something, something" government.
I casually mentioned that most of the same group had voted for this to happen some years previously.

Heated denials from all concerned and after more ridicule that I could possibly have remembered the evening so wrongly, I went to the bar to get a round in.
I was now a slightly older and very much older young man.

Sorry if I have bored you with this anecdote, but I have always found since then, that people, once having been fooled into doing something they regretted, put up large barriers of denial around the fact.

This e.u "thing" has been going on so long now that most people have these "skeletons" to hide on the subject and that is why it is so hard to get clear resolution.

As for which way I would vote, if you get a round in I will tell you what I think you want to hear !!

[ducati]

[QUOTE=ducati;898679]Why useless? The petition called for a backbench debate, a backbench motion, it was debated. Just because the result wasn't what you wanted, doesn't make it useless.[/QUOTE

In your wisdom what is the purpose then, they would be better discussed in the pub at least the publican would get a result.

The purpose is for the public to effect what is discussed in parliament. Don't get me wrong, just because I think this debate and the subject was illtimed doesn't mean I don't like the idea of the petitions. The signees can be justifyably satisfied. It made the grubbiement discuss something it didn't want to, it sparked a backbench revolt that has coursed DC some discomfort and no doubt given him pause for thought. Overall, a very significant result.

[tonkatojo]

[QUOTE=tonkatojo;898690]

The purpose is for the public to effect what is discussed in parliament. Don't get me wrong, just because I think this debate and the subject was illtimed doesn't mean I don't like the idea of the petitions. The signees can be justifyably satisfied. It made the grubbiement discuss something it didn't want to, it sparked a backbench revolt that has coursed DC some discomfort and no doubt given him pause for thought. Overall, a very significant result.

Aye that's probably all Cameron did paused for a moment in his thinking.

[ducati]

[QUOTE=ducati;898704]

Aye that's probably all Cameron did paused for a moment in his thinking.

Before continuing to poke his granny with a chip?

[tonkatojo]

[QUOTE=tonkatojo;898789]

Before continuing to poke his granny with a chip?

Not sure what your implying with above, but what your saying is parliament is about as much use as "question Time" is on bbc1 with that dimbilby bloke acting as speaker and every tom dick and mary acting as professional as a muppet show and depending on where the show is broadcast from as to what party yes men/women are in the audience. Come to think of it a perfect view of politics in the UK.

[ducati]

[QUOTE=ducati;898790]

Not sure what your implying with above, but what your saying is parliament is about as much use as "question Time" is on bbc1 with that dimbilby bloke acting as speaker and every tom dick and mary acting as professional as a muppet show and depending on where the show is broadcast from as to what party yes men/women are in the audience. Come to think of it a perfect view of politics in the UK.

I thought that was what you were saying. If the Eurosceptics had won the debate (which they didn't) and caused a bill to be brought before the house then about four years down the line there was an in/out referendum then you would be happy?

[secrets in symmetry]

I don't often poke my head above the parapet, but..... Hi everybody
A short story for you..

Some years ago, when the origional referendum was held, I was sitting one Saturday evening in a Suffolk pub with my Father and five of his friends watching them play cribbage.
As I was "the lad" my job was to get in the rounds and sit in for anyone that needed to water the flowers.
As such I was allowed to venture my opinions sometimes, when asked by the older generation.

This particular day the subject was the Referendum, and having listened to the conversations all evening, I was asked my opinion.
I had been studying this over a number of weeks with the kind of fervour that only a young person, new to the idea that somebody could vote these important people seen on the T.V. in or out of a job, could have.

So, I then pronounced that I was against the U.K. joining and gave some. in my opinion, valid arguments to support this.
They listened in silence to this ( these mixed group of mainly working class men) and then after a glance at my Father to guage his likely reaction, they laughter and ridicule started.
O.K. it was lighthearted and designed to show that I was young and "would soon grow out of it" and was soon forgotten.

Fast forward to a couple of years later.
I was visiting home, having been living and working away for some time and was sitting in the same pub with a slightly larger group of people which included the people that were there that eventful night.
They eventually got onto the subject of that "bl**dy european interfering "something, something" government.
I casually mentioned that most of the same group had voted for this to happen some years previously.

Heated denials from all concerned and after more ridicule that I could possibly have remembered the evening so wrongly, I went to the bar to get a round in.
I was now a slightly older and very much older young man.

Sorry if I have bored you with this anecdote, but I have always found since then, that people, once having been fooled into doing something they regretted, put up large barriers of denial around the fact.

This e.u "thing" has been going on so long now that most people have these "skeletons" to hide on the subject and that is why it is so hard to get clear resolution.

As for which way I would vote, if you get a round in I will tell you what I think you want to hear !!
You remembered one major thing wrongly - the referendum wasn't about joining the EEC. We'd already been in it for nearly two and a half years - the referendum was about whether we should stay in it.

See United Kingdom European Communities membership referendum (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=uk eec referendum&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUnited_ Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum %2C_1975&ei=WuunTunKFY2JhQeJ9fmLDg&usg=AFQjCNGLZXBsRJyEZ7Nq5kgwuzCZZ7sfGQ&cad=rja)

[sandyr1]

It's just more evidence that they are only in it for themselves, no wonder John Thurso is keeping his head down these days.

Liberal Democrats will be no more after the next election, I can see UKIP and the BNP getting more votes than the Tory poodles!!

C3...........[disgust][disgust][disgust]

Don't you know by now that whoever is in Power, just more of the same!

[tonkatojo]

[QUOTE=tonkatojo;898950]

I thought that was what you were saying. If the Eurosceptics had won the debate (which they didn't) and caused a bill to be brought before the house then about four years down the line there was an in/out referendum then you would be happy?

You should look again at that"debate", there was non, the whips made sure it wasn't worth debating as per the non vote instructions, Cameron was crap scared to debate it, I wonder why. And yes I would be happier still if it was next month. A perfect example why, the Greeks have secured a 50% write off of there national banks debt paid for by who ?? watch this space for the Italians and Spanish vying for next place.

[highlandglen]

You remembered one major thing wrongly - the referendum wasn't about joining the EEC. We'd already been in it for nearly two and a half years - the referendum was about whether we should stay in it.

See United Kingdom European Communities membership referendum (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=uk eec referendum&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUnited_ Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum %2C_1975&ei=WuunTunKFY2JhQeJ9fmLDg&usg=AFQjCNGLZXBsRJyEZ7Nq5kgwuzCZZ7sfGQ&cad=rja)

I stand corrected ! In mitigation, it was a long time ago and there was beer involved at the time.

[secrets in symmetry]

I stand corrected ! In mitigation, it was a long time ago and there was beer involved at the time.If you get a round in, I'll forgive you. :cool:

I enjoyed your anecdote, you should post more often.

[sandyr1]

Hum Veg...FYI....

Your headline on this subject somes up on my Netbook as ....wait for it...Sell your Granny for a Poke! When I first saw it I did a treble take, but then when I opened it the whole story was there!