View Full Version : Definition of an 'Incomer'
Its funny how different people have different ideas about what incomers are!
Most assume them to be from Englandshire but, of late I have heard they are from outside of Scotland as well as outside of the Highlands.
Now, does this include the islands.
My interpretation is (untill corrected) Someone who has moved into the County!
Therefore incomers who have children here create Caithnessians.
Therefore Caithnessians who have children in Raigmore create an incomer/s
How long 'generation wise' is it before you lose the incomer 'tag'?
What about mixed county marraiges where does it stop...
Clarification would be appreciated...
Angel...
Does it really make any Difference, I think not.
Totally second Kodiak, what is the point of this thread, I was conceived and born in Caithness, but no longer live there, I have cousins who were conceived elsewhere to a Caithness parent, and moved back to Caithness, went to school in Caithness, married a Caithnessian, do I consider them an outsider/ incomer....no I dont, I have many "incomer" friends on the org and I think none the less of them. In fact I am jealous of them. Without the "Atomics" Caithness would have died in the 1950's.
changilass
15-Oct-11, 21:32
Ouch, my ears are burning again lol
Gol does that make you and outgoer as you no longer live there??
I've been in and out that often, I think I'm doing the hokey cokey.
i am glad that kodiak and golach feel like that after all new comers are human and help to make a make a place what it is every one can bring somethng to where they live if allowed to
I totally agree... it doesn't make a difference... but people say it like it does, almost used as an insult or something. So I am trying to find out what differentiates 'them'... What credentials they do/don't have...
As a sample, an orger suggested I go back to whence I came (one of my recent threads) suggesting I was an 'incomer'. So that person must have based his assumption on something.
Angel...
Incomers............
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/pinklipspinkkisses/untitled.png
i am caithnesian born and bred to caithnesian parents but i took myself off walkabout to find employment many years ago and met my now wife who is half english half welsh...our three kids were born outside caithness and to cut a long story shorter i took my wife and kids here on hols and the wife loved it so much we moved back up here that was many years ago now.....would that make my wife and kids incomers or possibly me to for going walkabout for many years....i dont believe there is such a thing its just a saying that has no place in our modern society..
I totally agree... it doesn't make a difference... but people say it like it does, almost used as an insult or something. So I am trying to find out what differentiates 'them'... What credentials they do/don't have...
As a sample, an orger suggested I go back to whence I came (one of my recent threads) suggesting I was an 'incomer'. So that person must have based his assumption on something.
Angel...
Maybe they read your profile, that does tend to give it away :eek:
I remember a story a few years ago in Bettyhill where a retired Gent was wanting to represent the community (I'm not sure if it was for council) in some form or another. Apparently there was uproar as this pensioner was an incomer. He had moved to the village as a toddler.
Two full sets of Grandparents in the cemetery to be considered a local! ;)
Better move back to Bettyhill then Golach... oh heck... that long drive to the shops...
Angel...
I posted this in an earlier thread - Being a 'local' from birth (just incase anyone asks!), I firmly believe that people that move up don't lose the 'incomer' tag through time, only through attitude. When in Rome..........
I don't like the tag and don't agree with it at all.
I totally agree... it doesn't make a difference... but people say it like it does, almost used as an insult or something. So I am trying to find out what differentiates 'them'... What credentials they do/don't have...
As a sample, an orger suggested I go back to whence I came (one of my recent threads) suggesting I was an 'incomer'. So that person must have based his assumption on something.
Angel...
Yep that was me Angel, I based my assumption on reading your profile! I would like to know why you get upset at being called an Incomer? It's not a nasty term at all but just a name to call someone who has moved to the area from somewhere else. I have moved about many times in my life and often get called an Incomer but it doesn't worry or bother me in the slightest...get over it and move on!!
C3............:roll:;)
I remember a story a few years ago in Bettyhill where a retired Gent was wanting to represent the community (I'm not sure if it was for council) in some form or another. Apparently there was uproar as this pensioner was an incomer. He had moved to the village as a toddler.
Two full sets of Grandparents in the cemetery to be considered a local! ;)
Interesting, a large proportion of the people giving their time and efforts to the community councils in the county are er incomers.
Does this say anything about attitude LMS?
Doesn't bother me at all Corrie3... And I never took it as an insult... I was just trying to establish (if there is anything to establish) what makes an incomer...
And Ducati is quite right... why is this I wonder...
Angel...
Duncansby
16-Oct-11, 11:48
Anyone who uses the 'incomer' tag in a derogatory way, as secrets in symmetry said, is a 'dick'. I've moved to other counties and regions and would describe myself as an incomer because I am - I've 'come in' to an area. I'm proud of the fact I've come from Caithness and would describe myself as belonging to Caithness even though I don't live there at the moment.
Questions of identity are complex and depend on each individual person and come down to the attitude of that person. LMS to my mind has a very valid point attitude is very important and if you move into an area you are adopting the culture and attitudes of that area. I cringe whenever I hear 'Where I come we do it like this' or similar statements deliverd in a condesending manner. Yes incomers bring many skills and fresh ideas into the county but when it's delivered in a patronising manner it grates and it gives the rest a bad name.
Ducati, your right a large proportion of those giving their time on community councils are incomers and do a great job but that's to forget that a significant proportion of voluntary activity is not recorded. Many people give their time freely when asked and more often than not would not consider that they are 'volunteering' and this comes down to attitude. The Highland pysche tends to be one of not putting yourself forward and that needs to be understood by those not familiar with it. It doesn't mean that people are apatheic and not willing to make changes. It's just dealt with in a very different way, often quietly, directly and without a big fuss.
I had a wee chuckle to myself, at a meeting for one of local village things. lady beside me talked about all these blow-ins running things and could they not leave it to the locals - had a smile to myself, asked and how many village folk are here tonight, there were 2 out of 25!
The part I found funny was this lady discussing it with me - an incomer! She must have thought because I am from the Highlands I was OK in her mind, one minute I get treated as a local, next I am definitely a blow-in or incomer, could not care less what I am called as long as I am treated with civility.
secrets in symmetry
16-Oct-11, 13:16
Anyone who uses the 'incomer' tag in a derogatory way, as secrets in symmetry said, is a 'dick'.Clearly, I agree with you, but I'd shorten it to
Anyone who uses the 'incomer' tag is a 'dick'.
It's always derogatory, just like 'paki' or 'chinky' is.
changilass
16-Oct-11, 13:43
Whilst you may not like the incomer tag, it is very usefull at times to know who are the long term locals, especially if you are new to an area and want to garner some local information.
Having moved around all my life, I have always been an incomer where ever I have lived.
I still consider Caithness home and always will.
The only time I had any problems was in Cumbernauld, when I was told to go back to where I came from, the drunken lassie that said it moved down to London the next week to get a better paid job, hey ho.
Incomer is only derogatory when said by bigots, and they would only find a new (probably even more upsetting) word to describe incomers if the word was banned.
The thing to remember is that incomers are in the area because they made the desicion to do so, can that be said by all the locals?
secrets in symmetry
16-Oct-11, 13:47
I disagree with you changilass. It's like 'nigger', it's derogatory by common usage, whether you intend it to be or not.
Not only that, most of those that use your argument are the worst offenders. I don't include you in that category, of course.
If you want to know if someone is a local, then ask if they're a local. The word 'local' has positive connotations, 'incomer' has negative ones, and there's nothing you can do about that.
what is the point of this thread,
dina be so rude golach!! 'e lassie wis only askin a question.....
wi' 'at attitude, its no wonder some people da lek til start a conversation nowadays [disgust]
changilass
16-Oct-11, 14:05
To me a local is someone who has lived in a place long enough to give me directions or tell me something of the history of the town when I am visiting somewhere new.
An incomer is simply someone who is new to the area that would not have that insight, but has made a definate choice to move there.
I see incomer as a positive.
It is someone who has visited, fallen in love with the area and its people and chosen to come and live there.
Incomers can become locals by integrating into the society to which they move, becoming a long term local takes time and roots.
Even though I no longer live in Caithness I still consider myself a local, I wasn't born there, neither were my parents but I do have roots and a personal history with the place.
secrets in symmetry
16-Oct-11, 14:11
Those may be the meanings of those words to you, but a 'local' is a native (both born and bred, and speaking with a discernable Caithness accent) to most Caithness folk, and an incomer is, well, er, everyone else - mostly with negative connotation.
I prefer your interpretations, but common usage is otherwise.
secrets in symmetry
16-Oct-11, 14:17
I had a wee chuckle to myself, at a meeting for one of local village things. lady beside me talked about all these blow-ins running things and could they not leave it to the locals - had a smile to myself, asked and how many village folk are here tonight, there were 2 out of 25!
The part I found funny was this lady discussing it with me - an incomer! She must have thought because I am from the Highlands I was OK in her mind, one minute I get treated as a local, next I am definitely a blow-in or incomer, could not care less what I am called as long as I am treated with civility.A 'blow-in'? Lol! I imagine that's derogatory, but at least it's funny!
Are there jobs for blow-ins?
I would have thought that in a small, remote community, if there werent any incomers, everyone would be walking round with webbed feet or six fingers.
cuddlepop
16-Oct-11, 17:17
I found when I married a "local" I became a "local" of Skye even though I'm from Glasgow.
What is different I've found in the Highlands is a "them" and "us" attitude almost akin to the football divide down in Glasgow.
My daughter lives and works in Glasgow but is born and brought up in Skye but because im from glasgow she's a local.
clear as mud lol.
It's always derogatory, just like 'paki' or 'chinky' is.
I'd have to disagree with that.
I go for a chinky once a month. I love it and have nothing derogatory to say about it.
Tnight I might go for a chippy. I hope nobody is offended.
secrets in symmetry
16-Oct-11, 17:32
I'd have to disagree with that.
I go for a chinky once a month. I love it and have nothing derogatory to say about it.The word "chinky" is derogatory to ethnic Chinese - it doesn't matter what it means to you!
The word "chinky" is derogatory to ethnic Chinese - it doesn't matter what it means to you!
Do you speak for all these ethnic chinese?
I ask because I grew up with the son of the owner of a chinese restaurant who was quite proud that his dad owned the only "chinky" in Thurso.
The term is only derogatory if used in a derogatory manner.
I might go for my chippy with my ozzy mate.
secrets in symmetry
16-Oct-11, 17:42
Just because one person wasn't offended doesn't mean several billion wouldn't be. The term is generally derogatory.
You are using the same sort of logic that climate change deniers use when we get one or two cold winters in this country.
You are using the same sort of logic that climate change deniers use when we get one or two cold winters in this country.
The boy's gone way off thread again, tut tut.
Just because one person wasn't offended doesn't mean several billion wouldn't be. The term is generally derogatory.
Maybe.
But I think I've got my point across.
You've changed your statement from "always derogatory" to "generally derogatory". I would say "sometimes derogatory".
The meaning or impact of a word changes with context and intent.
at least with incomers it keeps the gene pool from going too stagnant *G* but seriously.. im an incomer but ive been here for 12 years now.. and this feels more like home than where i grew up!
i love wick.. and wouldn't want to leave it anytime soon..
i always get asked where im from.. and im happy to tell them.. a few times ive been asked.. where do you call home? Wick of course! *G*
secrets in symmetry
16-Oct-11, 18:40
Maybe.
But I think I've got my point across.
You've changed your statement from "always derogatory" to "generally derogatory". I would say "sometimes derogatory".Lol! Ok, it's derogatory when used generally or in public, but sometimes not when used between friends. :cool:
Have 'White settlers' been mentioned yet - I understand that folks from Inverness are called 'grey settlers'?
thanks for 'e reputation points golach, ye ken that ma wee deeg at ye earlier.....
dina be so rude golach!! [disgust]
......wis choost an excuse til speak til ye....!
i do lek til get yer attention now an' again (blows a kiss)
My partner was told by a very rude customer to go back to where he came from. That would be thurso! The customer was talking about business's and how people like the owners of the new place that used to be indian palace, are stealing all the buisness from the locals. My partner had been telling him about his pc buisness and he was told to go back to where he came from. My partner was born here but because he isn't pale white it was assumed that he had not been born here. My partner held his tongue and did not tell the customer how insulted he felt or what he was thinking. It is people like this customer that makes my blood boil. Such a closed of, backwards attitude just stinks.
To base on appearance and skin colour only is low and shallow.
Whitewater
16-Oct-11, 22:03
I have lived in Caithness all my life and moved from Thurso to Wick 40 odd years ago when I got married to a 'Wicker'. I still get referred to as the guy from Thurso. It doesn't offend me and it has never been said in a derogatory manner. However, I have noticed from time to time that people from outwith the county often get mild abuse, perhaps no malice is intended but I'm sure it must hurt the person receiving it.
'Bekisman', I had to read your post twice, at first Ithought you said Invernessians were called 'Gay' settlers
My mam used to call people not from Shetland 'soothmoothers' ...dont think it was used as a derogitory term (usually), just a way to say they weren't 'locals'. I've been in Thurso now for 13 years, since I was 16 years old, so I kinda feel like I grew up here and dont feel like an incomer...although I still call shetland home :)
S-i-S - re your post of ages ago -
Yes, there are jobs for "blow-ins" - they certainly seem to get more of the jobs than folk born here!
Many of the senior people in work situations here are "blow-ins".
secrets in symmetry
16-Oct-11, 23:20
Thanks pat. Although some locals will feel hard done by - rightly or wrongly - I actually think it's good that blow-ins can get good jobs. It prevents the community leadership from become stale and stagnated like it is in Caithness.
linnie612
16-Oct-11, 23:39
It depends what you mean by 'good' jobs?
To me a local is someone who has lived in a place long enough to give me directions or tell me something of the history of the town when I am visiting somewhere new.
An incomer is simply someone who is new to the area that would not have that insight, but has made a definate choice to move there.
I see incomer as a positive.
It is someone who has visited, fallen in love with the area and its people and chosen to come and live there.
Incomers can become locals by integrating into the society to which they move, becoming a long term local takes time and roots.
Even though I no longer live in Caithness I still consider myself a local, I wasn't born there, neither were my parents but I do have roots and a personal history with the place.
You've got it almost right Changi. Now..... when are you coming back?........
It's the distinction between Emmets an' Grockles he he
secrets in symmetry
17-Oct-11, 00:26
Is it not more like Emmets and Janners?
It's the distinction between Emmets an' Grockles he he
Is it not more like Emmets and Janners?
No it's ########### and ******************. Or it might aswell be. As i haven't a clue, what you two, are on about.
secrets in symmetry
17-Oct-11, 00:48
Oops, I think I should have said Grockles and Janners. The vernacular of the Celtic heartland found south west of England is a richer tapestry than I can weave.
Google is your friend.
I think if insiders call outsiders anything, it is a sign of a stagnant area. It is just not something discussed in other areas. You would think with a mobile population spanning hundreds of years with the clearances, the herring industry and lately the nuclear industry. People born and bred in Caithness would find something else to talk about. :roll:
'scuse me secrets in symmetry. I have never been a grockle might be classed as an emmet by some but have always been a janner and proud to be so.
Quite agree with you ducati and the majority of caithnessians do as they have better things to occupy their minds.
rob murray
17-Oct-11, 15:52
If you live within the confines of Caithness and can trace your local roots back to 1799, ie all your forefathers being bona fide Caithnessians, then your a local, ie local to where you currently live ie Wick Lybster Thurso etc etc as long as you can prove the heritage line. If for example you live in Thurso but your forebearers were from Wick, unless you have lived in Thurso for 212 years ( minimum ) then you are classified as an incommer, same applies to people from Wick and every other place in Caithness. We locals must protect the bloodline and our ancient heritage ( whatever that is ) !!!! lol lol lol
Alice in Blunderland
17-Oct-11, 18:07
If you live within the confines of Caithness and can trace your local roots back to 1799, ie all your forefathers being bona fide Caithnessians, then your a local, ie local to where you currently live ie Wick Lybster Thurso etc etc as long as you can prove the heritage line. If for example you live in Thurso but your forebearers were from Wick, unless you have lived in Thurso for 212 years ( minimum ) then you are classified as an incommer, same applies to people from Wick and every other place in Caithness. We locals must protect the bloodline and our ancient heritage ( whatever that is ) !!!! lol lol lol
aww well thats me stuffed then...Im a bleeding incomer sheesh ;)
tonkatojo
17-Oct-11, 18:32
aww well thats me stuffed then...Im a bleeding incomer sheesh ;)
I didn't realise you were still here Alice, here's me thinking you had taken off to sunnier climes or even Scouserland, as I went home to Geordieland LOL.
Alice in Blunderland
17-Oct-11, 20:11
I didn't realise you were still here Alice, here's me thinking you had taken off to sunnier climes or even Scouserland, as I went home to Geordieland LOL.
Yes Im still here.
This incomer (definition can be found in post 50) who married ....wait for it..... another incomer.....and worse hes a bleeding foreigner over here taking our good jobs...... is stuck here with the foreigner because he reckons he likes it here....for the momment. lol
Duncansby
17-Oct-11, 20:35
I think if insiders call outsiders anything, it is a sign of a stagnant area. It is just not something discussed in other areas. You would think with a mobile population spanning hundreds of years with the clearances, the herring industry and lately the nuclear industry. People born and bred in Caithness would find something else to talk about. :roll:
To be fair these threads aren't instigated by 'born and bred' Caithnessians. Granted - it's usually as a result of an encounter with someone with a prejudice against incomers but to imply that the majority of Caithness folk think like that is unfair and untrue.
Caithness is not the only place to have discussion's about, or use the term, 'incomers'. Here's an example from the Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8679642/Village-hits-back-after-incomer-claims-people-in-Suffolk-never-smile.html.
For those interested there is a very interesting paper discussing issues of identity between 'incomer' and 'local' which appeared in Scottish Affairs in 2007: http://www.scottishaffairs.org/backiss/pdfs/sa59/Sa59_Masson.pd (http://www.scottishaffairs.org/backiss/pdfs/sa59/Sa59_Masson.pdf)f.
secrets in symmetry
17-Oct-11, 22:41
'scuse me secrets in symmetry. I have never been a grockle might be classed as an emmet by some but have always been a janner and proud to be so.
Quite agree with you ducati and the majority of caithnessians do as they have better things to occupy their minds.Lol! I wasn't suggesting you were a grockle or an emmet LIZZ. I was thinking of janners as locals, and emmets/grockles as incomers.
secrets in symmetry
17-Oct-11, 23:06
To be fair these threads aren't instigated by 'born and bred' Caithnessians. Granted - it's usually as a result of an encounter with someone with a prejudice against incomers but to imply that the majority of Caithness folk think like that is unfair and untrue.I think you're right.
Caithness is not the only place to have discussion's about, or use the term, 'incomers'. Here's an example from the Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8679642/Village-hits-back-after-incomer-claims-people-in-Suffolk-never-smile.html.Lol! I can imagine the same article appearing in the Groat with the words Scotland and North interchanged with England and South. It seems to be a feature of rural or small-town communities - where the effect is more immediate?
For those interested there is a very interesting paper discussing issues of identity between 'incomer' and 'local' which appeared in Scottish Affairs in 2007: http://www.scottishaffairs.org/backiss/pdfs/sa59/Sa59_Masson.pd (http://www.scottishaffairs.org/backiss/pdfs/sa59/Sa59_Masson.pdf)f.Thanks for the link. I don't know Kimberley, but I think we have some mutual acquaintances - and I think she might be a member of this forum! :cool:
As a "born and bred" probably like most i've not a problem with anyone moving into the area who fit in. An incomer is someone who says "we don't do it like that down south" "that wouldn't happen down south" "everything is better down south" blah,blah, blah.
The worst are those "locals" who move away to Aberdeen or wherever for a couple of years and come back and say "we don't do it like that down south" :-)
canadagirl
18-Oct-11, 03:10
So, what if someone says 'so and so is of______' as opposed to not 'of______'. Not calling them an incomer but not quite 'quite' either.
And what happens if I move back to where my grandparents came from? Would I still be an 'incomer'? Even if I was polite and didn't intrude?
For anyone who's interested, here we call them 'subdivision people'.
Similar to Alice, I was an incomer that married another incomer; I was from Barrhead, she from Brora. Our son was born in Caithness General so does that make him a Wicker, (God forbid), even though he's been raised in Thurso? ;) I have to say though, in the 11 years I lived in Thurso I can't recall ever being called an incomer, nor did I ever hear of anyone being referred to as such, or perhaps it was only said outwith earshot.
Alice in Blunderland
18-Oct-11, 18:28
perhaps it was only said outwith earshot.
As is most little comments passed about incomers lol ;)
secrets in symmetry
18-Oct-11, 22:39
As a "born and bred" probably like most i've not a problem with anyone moving into the area who fit in. An incomer is someone who says "we don't do it like that down south" "that wouldn't happen down south" "everything is better down south" blah,blah, blah.
The worst are those "locals" who move away to Aberdeen or wherever for a couple of years and come back and say "we don't do it like that down south" :-)You could be describing my mate...after he moved down to Inverness! These Outgoers should be sent straight back to where they came from! Oh...err...oh dear....
oldmarine
19-Oct-11, 05:51
All the comments passed over my head. Guess I'm getting too old to comprehend.
porshiepoo
19-Oct-11, 09:04
Personally to me (an incomer) the tag means nothing! I don't think of myself as an incomer or any other kind of mover innner lol.
Am I local? yes. Was I born here? nope but does it really matter as long as we appreciate and contribute to the area?
In my experience of the area I have found very little use of the term however we were made aware right from day one that we would always be considered 'incomers' by the locals (though it was never said in a nasty way, more of a simple fact of life). Seems a bit stupid to me, why feel the need to label anyone who lives here? Is it really about who's born and bred here in caithness or is it more about a North/south divide?
Mind you I'm not sure how much longer the label will be warranted. With so many southerners moving up and locals moving away I don't think it will take too long before the majority of the Caithness population are those 'incomers' from Englandshire ;)
Seriously though the 'incomer' label in my opinion is only really used by those people who feel the need constantly remind the newcomers that they'll never be truly accepted here and to make sure that the locals never truly accept them. Sad really, it's a division that is not really warranted in this day and age.
It IS a derogatory term IMO simply because of the history behind it and the context it's used in.
I would add though that I personally haven't found the label used that much by the born and bred locals, in fact I've found more prejudice and arrogance from some Southern Scots that have moved up here.
No such thing as an incomer,such a ridiculous word!! Everybody is the same whatever their origin,i believe we are all human(i think)
I don't think it will take too long before the majority of the Caithness population are those 'incomers' from Englandshire ;)
Hmm...Wonder why so many English are leaving England.
Hmm...Wonder why so many English are leaving England.
er...... is it for the weather?:cool:
porshiepoo
19-Oct-11, 20:03
Hmm...Wonder why so many English are leaving England.
Well for us personally it was smog, traffic, ridiculously fast pace of life, immigrant invasion, crime rate and the fact that we could afford to buy somewhere and have no mortgage here.
Duncansby
19-Oct-11, 20:10
Personally to me (an incomer) the tag means nothing! I don't think of myself as an incomer or any other kind of mover innner lol.
Am I local? yes. Was I born here? nope but does it really matter as long as we appreciate and contribute to the area?
Well for us personally it was smog, traffic, ridiculously fast pace of life, immigrant invasion, crime rate and the fact that we could afford to buy somewhere and have no mortgage here.
It always amazes me when 'incomers' complain about being referred to as 'incomers' yet in the same breath cite the reason they left the place of their birth was down to 'incomers' coming in!
It always amazes me when 'incomers' complain about being referred to as 'incomers' yet in the same breath cite the reason they left the place of their birth was down to 'incomers' coming in!
I think porshiepoos "as long as we appreciate and contribute to the area" is the difference between an incomer and the immigrant invasion they were talking about.
secrets in symmetry
20-Oct-11, 00:15
I have realised that the word "incomer" is applicable to environmental vandals who deny global warming, who don't understand the first thing about CO2 balances between peatland and woodland, and who close active discussion threads when they have lost the argument.
So, :confused, an Atomic's "half" life will last until 2101 (? at least). But is this in any way diminished by the number of grand parentage doing the daisy thing in the 'local' cemetery?
I have realised that the word "incomer" is applicable to environmental vandals who deny global warming Is that the same as windymills are the result of 'incomers'? In the context that all the turbines being planted up here are for the financial benefit of incomers.
Is that the same as windymills are the result of 'incomers'? In the context that all the turbines being planted up here are for the financial benefit of incomers.Hmm, quite agree, be nice if the 'local community' i.e. individuals actually had money from these wind things going into their own pockets instead of the millions generated which, for example will go into the 14 pockets of absentee landlords with the Strathy North, Strathy South and Strathy Wood wind 'farms'..
Oh yes sis, liked your post #47 "The vernacular of the Celtic heartland found south west of England is a richer tapestry than I can weave"
As I'm from kernow, Durdalada whye!
It always amazes me when 'incomers' complain about being referred to as 'incomers' yet in the same breath cite the reason they left the place of their birth was down to 'incomers' coming in!
Same here..........when Caithness is full of immigrants is it time for the locals to leave??
C3............:confused:confused
I know-
It's someone with an income, isn't it!
Duncansby
20-Oct-11, 18:32
I think porshiepoos "as long as we appreciate and contribute to the area" is the difference between an incomer and the immigrant invasion they were talking about.
I don't understand your logic. There are many people who move to Caithness and don't contribute anything, just as there are lots of immigrants in the south who do contribute to their adopted home.
porshiepoo
20-Oct-11, 21:58
It always amazes me when 'incomers' complain about being referred to as 'incomers' yet in the same breath cite the reason they left the place of their birth was down to 'incomers' coming in!
Slight difference between an immigrant invasion and an 'incomer'.
No English person I know of in England would class a Scot, a Welshman or an Irishman as an 'incomer'. We are all part of Great Britain and this ridiculous notion that you would always be classed as an 'incomer' unless you can prove several generations of locally bred relatives simply is not the general consensus in England. If you are a native Britain then you belong anywhere in Britain that you choose to live and should not be excluded on grounds of lineage.
The immigrant population I spoke of has been done a death in many other threads suffice to say that although people in the EU may have the legal right to explore other EU countries that does not make them a Brit. In fact most of the immigrants I speak of did not know a word of English nor did they have any wish to learn it and I fail to understand how any non English speaking community (and they were huge communities) can contribute to an area. If they're not contributing to it then they are leeching off it.
Now if you would care to take the time to re-read my original post you will notice that i said the 'incomer' tag means nothing to me and I don't believe I complained about being referred as one either. In fact I went on to say that I haven't come across that term personally so much though I am aware it exists.
'Incomer' is simply a word, a term, a phrase. yes it is derrogatory IMO but it only has as much power to insult as we wish to give it.
secrets in symmetry
20-Oct-11, 22:50
this ridiculous notion that you would always be classed as an 'incomer' unless you can prove several generations of locally bred relatives simply is not the general consensus in England. It's not the general consensus in Scotland either, but it may be the general consensus in small remote communities in both countries. There are similar ideas in traditional working class areas, and also in very rich ones. They are generally idiotic in each case.
Did anyone read the Kimberley Masson article that Duncansby drew our attention to?
For those interested there is a very interesting paper discussing issues of identity between 'incomer' and 'local' which appeared in Scottish Affairs in 2007: http://www.scottishaffairs.org/backiss/pdfs/sa59/Sa59_Masson.pd (http://www.scottishaffairs.org/backiss/pdfs/sa59/Sa59_Masson.pdf)f.
It's so good that it had me ROFL several times. Kimberley is a smart lassie, in both senses of the word. :cool:
Duncansby
20-Oct-11, 23:16
Slight difference between an immigrant invasion and an 'incomer'.
Why is it different?
No English person I know of in England would class a Scot, a Welshman or an Irishman as an 'incomer'.
See the link to the Telegraph I posted earlier. I lived in Edinburgh for 10 years and was used to banter about being a teuchter. Did it offend me? No. I'm proud of my heritage and culture and if that means I'm a teuchter so be it. I 'fitted in' by moderating my accent and losing a lot of the dialect words I'd normally use - although I'd still use them unconciously and end up confusing folk. This is especially true when I lived in the states - in fact I was regularly told how good my English was! The Highands are very different to the lowlands and although as a country each region may have British traits every region has it's unique character and to fail to realise that is to loss what makes Britain Britain. We are a nation of immigrants and this can be seen in the differences and similarities between regions. Although I may be British, I'm also Scottish but first and foremost I'm a Highlander.
We are all part of Great Britain and this ridiculous notion that you would always be classed as an 'incomer' unless you can prove several generations of locally bred relatives simply is not the general consensus in England. If you are a native Britain then you belong anywhere in Britain that you choose to live and should not be excluded on grounds of lineage.
The only people I ever hear stating generations of ancestors in the cemetry as a definition of local is 'incomers' and how do you define a 'native Britain'? How many generations do you need to have buried in British cemetries before you can call yourself a Brit?
The immigrant population I spoke of has been done a death in many other threads suffice to say that although people in the EU may have the legal right to explore other EU countries that does not make them a Brit. In fact most of the immigrants I speak of did not know a word of English nor did they have any wish to learn it and I fail to understand how any non English speaking community (and they were huge communities) can contribute to an area. If they're not contributing to it then they are leeching off it.
So are you saying that although people from the EU may have the legal right to be here they shouldn't be because they aren't British? Lots of British people work all over the world and they wouldn't class themselves as non-British would they? And why should they! I have worked with immigrants from all other the world and several people who came from eastern Europe to work in the UK, all of whom were hard working, upstanding members of society - one of whom had very little English to begin with but learned very quickly.
Now if you would care to take the time to re-read my original post you will notice that i said the 'incomer' tag means nothing to me and I don't believe I complained about being referred as one either. In fact I went on to say that I haven't come across that term personally so much though I am aware it exists.
'Incomer' is simply a word, a term, a phrase. yes it is derrogatory IMO but it only has as much power to insult as we wish to give it.
I have re-read your post and your right labels only really apply if you let them but you do state it is a derogatory term and shouldn't be used so why then is it ok to complain about immigrants from outwith the UK? You criticise the parochial attitude of 'locals' towards 'incomers' in Caithness but have a narrow outlook as far as Britain is concerned - there is an awful big world out there!
Big N Rich
21-Oct-11, 11:40
I'm not gonna read through all the posts in this, but my understand would be that an Incomer is someone who has come in to the area and has not lived in the certain area all their life.
So it wasn't just a pointless thread after all as lots of people have different ideas and veiws of what 'incomer' actually means.
The general feel it is used openly as a positive thing but on the quiet it is a negative thing.
Therefore I can assume it is a prejudice thing that nobody wishes to admit to.
And furthermore there is resentment to 'incomers'.
Correct me if I am wrong...
Angel...
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.