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View Full Version : Won't someone please think of the children... I hate crap like this



RecQuery
11-Oct-11, 09:31
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/11/pornography-internet-service-providers - (Pornography to be blocked by internet service providers unless users opt in - David Cameron unveils deal with big four providers based on charity's proposals to protect children from sexual content). This also deals with blocking 'provocative' adverts.

Why do parents feel that they have the right to essentially censor society for the rest of us. I have an idea take responsibility for your children instead of sitting them in-front of a TV or computer, expecting that to raise them and then wail incessantly when something happens.

Besides the obvious implications of blocking a large part of the internet for the entire population there are many, many things wrong with this policy:


It is extremely rare for one to stumble upon adult content on the internet. If children are looking at adult content, they are probably looking for adult content. (As much as the charity in question would refuse to believe).
Children already know how to use proxy sites to bypass blocks on social networks. This will render the entire policy completely useless for those intentionally seeking out this kind of content. And of they somehow find a way to stop proxying then there are still about twenty other methods that immediately come to mind.
Some ISPs already offer an opt-in service to block adult content. Alternatively, you can use parental control software to block whatever type of content you wish. Failing that, you could actually be a parent and parent your child, educate them, or even disallow them unsupervised internet access if you must. The promotion of these existing options would be much easier, cheaper, and far less authoritarian.
Who will maintain the list of blocked sites? As regular users of the internet on mobile phones may know, the blocking solutions employed by phone providers, for example, often block perfectly acceptable content. This is not a black & white issue: anyone who has used the internet for more than a few minutes can tell you there are not clearly-defined "porn sites" and then clearly-defined "100% family friendly sites". So who decides which is which, and how?
David Cameron has previously said he would like to create a British Silicon Valley. Leaving tech startups at the mercy of a government department which decides which sites are banned and which are not (and will, almost certainly, frequently get it wrong) is not a good way to promote this. I've run perfectly innocent websites that have been incorrectly categorised as "adult" by existing blocking solutions that workplaces and schools use. Losing visitors from schools and workplaces can be bad enough... but the thought of an entire country of 60 million people being unable to access your website because of a single government employee (or automated system) deciding your website isn't "family-friendly" enough is terrifying.
I thought the current government was opposed to a nanny state.

This policy is not going to save any children's lives or prevent children from being sexually abused. It is not going to stop parents dressing their children in revealing clothing or buying their children makeup. It is not going to stop anything believed to be morally abhorrent by the government or the involved charities. This is a dangerous, poorly designed policy dreamt up by technologically illiterate people who have as much credibility deciding tech policy as a child would have deciding tax policy.

Also is the fact that children could potentially see naked people really that big of a deal.

Here's another idea: Why don't we make all food a tasteless mush so that children don't choke on anything(!)

weezer 316
11-Oct-11, 09:42
Waste of time. And money.

Torvaig
11-Oct-11, 09:48
RecQuery, I started by good repping you but I also want to say in public that I agree with what you have written. If we have children, it is up to us and teachers etc., to protect them from material we don't wish them to see. I know it is not possible to do so entirely but, as parents, we have to make our best efforts. That what parents and responsible adults do.

I know it is not easy with the amount of "unsuitable" material easily accessed but then nothing is in this world is.....it's called "human rights".

John Little
11-Oct-11, 10:01
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/dec/20/web-filtering-will-not-work?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

RecQuery
11-Oct-11, 10:10
It's related to a another problem, basically the government needs some science and technology advisors/civil servants that actually know what they're talking about. Every IT/science mess in this government and previous governments can be tracked back to that.

orkneycadian
11-Oct-11, 19:01
I think O2 started doing this a few years ago - Around about the same time as my phone started blocking completely innocent webpages! I mind being south at a bull sale once and tried to look up B&B accommodation on the phones web browser. Half the pages were blocked and wouldn't show due to O2's filter. And that was just looking up Bed and Breakfast webpages! Not used it much since then as the filter has made it worthless for even the most innocuous webpages

Wonder if e Org will get blocked on account that its just 1 letter shorty of orgy?

RecQuery
11-Oct-11, 22:15
That's one of the major problems, any country wide filter could potentially block innocuous sites, or sites that are part of an advertising network and happen to have a dodgy advert, sites that get hacked etc.

The decisions would be totally at the whims of those who manage the blocklist, it could ruin a business that gets accidentally put on there, you'd need an entire bureaucracy or government department to manage it anyway. And there are obvious net neutrality concerns.

Plus it won't stop anything. Children seeing porn is in no way related to sexual abuse or the sexualisation of children. It all stems from a false memory of the past, people seem to think that the past is some utopian rose-tinted place, it's not.

Actually that den of harridans: Mumsnet (what a stupid concept) tried to push one of these blocks on us before, they quickly back-pedalled when they realised breast feeding sites would be on the list though.

ducati
12-Oct-11, 08:24
Personally I think that the Gov. are making the right noises but should concentrate their internet blocking efforts on terrorism and groups that seem to freely distribute unacceptable materiel.

ducati
12-Oct-11, 08:26
Actually that den of harridans: Mumsnet (what a stupid concept) tried to push one of these blocks on us before, they quickly back-pedalled when they realised breast feeding sites would be on the list though.

You're not for anything goes then? Just stuff that doesn't interest you.

RecQuery
12-Oct-11, 09:31
You're not for anything goes then? Just stuff that doesn't interest you.

I'm fine with anything goes provided no one gets hurt that doesn't want to be hurt, just no one else seems to be. I consider any blocking unacceptable.

weezer 316
12-Oct-11, 10:54
Child pornograpgy websites persist despite monumental co-ordinated international effort the likes of which doenst exist for anything else. if that doenst telly you the effectiveness of filtering nothing ever will. The peer to peer nature of the net that is its biggest strength is also the feature that makes it virtually impossible to control.

RecQuery
12-Oct-11, 11:28
Child pornograpgy websites persist despite monumental co-ordinated international effort the likes of which doenst exist for anything else. if that doenst telly you the effectiveness of filtering nothing ever will. The peer to peer nature of the net that is its biggest strength is also the feature that makes it virtually impossible to control.

Exactly, all these blocking efforts have done is improve the technical skill of criminals, we only catch the idiots or those that get complacent now. Instead they should have just done a surveillance operation on any dodgy sites and collected evidence on the infrastructure and customers.

RecQuery
12-Oct-11, 13:13
I forgot to mention that this recommendation comes from the Bailey Report – written by Reg Bailey, CEO at the Christian charity Mothers' Union. So there's no chance of dodgy or biased findings at all(!)

oldmarine
13-Oct-11, 18:23
Waste of time. And money. Fortunately everyone does not agree with you.

theone
13-Oct-11, 23:24
For me, this shows the ridiculous society we have become.

Parents - take responsibility for your own children and what they access on the internet.

Enough of this blame culture, where can I get compensated, what's the goverment going to do attitude.

dx100uk
14-Oct-11, 01:52
you've got my vote req

same tech background as you know.

dx

squidge
20-Oct-11, 08:46
Several years ago I found that the history on my computer listed pagethree.com or something similar as a website that had been visted. My big boys were around 10 or 12 at the time. I called in the oldest ( always a bit interested in "girls" lol) and asked had he been mooching around the smutty sites and he denied it absolutely. WhenI asked my younger son he was very upset. They were doing a project on the solar system at school and he had put "the sun" into google and was slightly surprised by what he found. We still laugh about it now.

Im not a techie - Im just a mum but even i know that these things wont work. Its all smoke and mirrors - do something even if its ineffective and people will think you are tackling the issue in hand. Governments are ALWAYS doing this and it annoys me. Protect children from sexual content - have you seen the state of some of the music videos???? These are in our homes much more easily and more likely to create role models for children than some pornography they might stumble upon on the internet. By the time they are the age where they are finding the "sexual Content" on the internet they have been exposed to sexual content all over the place. It is up to us as parents to manage that and place it in context and have frank and open discussions with kids on sex and pornography.

There is however no doubt there is some nastyyyyyyy stuff around on the internet. Watch what your children are doing and check their activities. Laptops in rooms are a dangerous thing in my view and not something I encouraged in my kids. Computers should be ffor family spaces. Children's bedrooms should not have locks on the doors or be "out of bounds" for parents in fact, I dont think any room in a house - excepting the bathroom should have a lock on it. I am more likely to be alarmed by suicide websites or websites glorifying violence or torture than pornography. I do beleive that as a parent I have the right to check my children's emails, facebook page, text messages, browsing history and behaviour and whether i do that overtly or covertly is up to me. To be honest - i have done both! But it is MY responsibility to manage the internet for my family not the governments. The only time there is a place for officila involvement is if I was doing something illegal.

Koi
20-Oct-11, 10:48
Several years ago I found that the history on my computer listed pagethree.com or something similar as a website that had been visted. My big boys were around 10 or 12 at the time. I called in the oldest ( always a bit interested in "girls" lol) and asked had he been mooching around the smutty sites and he denied it absolutely. WhenI asked my younger son he was very upset. They were doing a project on the solar system at school and he had put "the sun" into google and was slightly surprised by what he found. We still laugh about it now.

Im not a techie - Im just a mum but even i know that these things wont work. Its all smoke and mirrors - do something even if its ineffective and people will think you are tackling the issue in hand. Governments are ALWAYS doing this and it annoys me. Protect children from sexual content - have you seen the state of some of the music videos???? These are in our homes much more easily and more likely to create role models for children than some pornography they might stumble upon on the internet. By the time they are the age where they are finding the "sexual Content" on the internet they have been exposed to sexual content all over the place. It is up to us as parents to manage that and place it in context and have frank and open discussions with kids on sex and pornography.

There is however no doubt there is some nastyyyyyyy stuff around on the internet. Watch what your children are doing and check their activities. Laptops in rooms are a dangerous thing in my view and not something I encouraged in my kids. Computers should be ffor family spaces. Children's bedrooms should not have locks on the doors or be "out of bounds" for parents in fact, I dont think any room in a house - excepting the bathroom should have a lock on it. I am more likely to be alarmed by suicide websites or websites glorifying violence or torture than pornography. I do beleive that as a parent I have the right to check my children's emails, facebook page, text messages, browsing history and behaviour and whether i do that overtly or covertly is up to me. To be honest - i have done both! But it is MY responsibility to manage the internet for my family not the governments. The only time there is a place for officila involvement is if I was doing something illegal.

Poor lad. Not what he expected at all lol.

I completly agree with you.

Koi
20-Oct-11, 10:50
For me, this shows the ridiculous society we have become.

Parents - take responsibility for your own children and what they access on the internet.

Enough of this blame culture, where can I get compensated, what's the goverment going to do attitude.

Well said. Compeltly agree. If alot more parents took responsibility instead of passing the buck i'd like to think some children would certainly be behaving alot better.

Mad1man
20-Oct-11, 14:11
Squidge, you hit the nail on the head!! We as parents have to get off our behinds and know what our children are involved in, and be proactive in preventing awkward situations coming up.

theone
20-Oct-11, 20:07
WhenI asked my younger son he was very upset. They were doing a project on the solar system at school and he had put "the sun" into google and was slightly surprised by what he found.

The boy's a genius!

I wish I could come up with believable answers to get me out of trouble so easily ;-)

Rheghead
20-Oct-11, 20:38
The boy's a genius!

I wish I could come up with believable answers to get me out of trouble so easily ;-)

Nah, the boy's a dunce if he has got to the ripe old age of ten and doesn't know how to clear out the browser history!! :D