View Full Version : care aware part 2
bobandag16
06-Oct-11, 18:48
further cuts in care for elderly, warden cover reduced by half, 2days a week no cover, adds to lack of care. old people choice like it or lump it. who dares to care].
Check out the John O Groat Journal tomorrow, they are running the story. Good for you standing up for the old folks.
Sincerely hope when the council do the maths for your discounted warden service they work it out by the number of visits you are due compared to what you now get. There is a huge difference doing it per visit not per day now warden has been cut to one visit per day on five days out of seven. Keep on fighting for safe care of our vulnerable elderly.
secrets in symmetry
08-Oct-11, 15:59
further cuts in care for elderly, warden cover reduced by half, 2days a week no cover, adds to lack of care. old people choice like it or lump it. who dares to care].I read the article in the Groat. Good for you Bob, much kudos to you.
orkneycadian
08-Oct-11, 17:55
Not surprising given the country is skint beyond belief. Over this side of the burn, the word "austerity" is believed to be just something you hear on the news when they are talking about Greek riots.....
"Oh yes, I understand that savings have to be made, as long as its not [insert pet project here - see below for possible options] that gets cut"
Healthcare
Pre-school nurseries
Classroom assistants
Education
Further education
Sports facilities
Road maintenace
Housing provision
Public transport
Care of the elderly
Policing
Seal sanctuaries
Grass cutting and dog doo collections in the local park
ad infinitum
Yep - One mans favourite service is another mans cost cutting target. No matter where savings are attempted to be made, someone will not be happy! As a country, we have been living beyond our means for decades, and now the chickens come home to roost.
Also, decades ago, care of the elderly was effected by that old fashioned concept, the family. If we are looking for care of the elderly and to live within our means again, maybe we should look at how it was done a generation or 2 ago.
Well said.............................
Over the past 40+ years of returning to Caithness, I have seen the huge change in the way people live...I always thought there was either really good money or really good credit.....now we know, as does many other Countries, and even we in Canada are trying it...
The World will have to cut back and stop expecting handouts.........
Well said??????Wardens and home helps save money by helping people stay in their homes rather than going into very expensive care homes where the cost is met by the council. How we care for the weak and vulnerable eh?
Agree wth all you have said Orcadian, cuts have to come somewhere and people only really voice their concerns about the cuts when it is something which affects them personally.
Cuts have to be made.
Recently was speaking to a friend - accountant in England, of the 440 Limited companies does the books for, only 14 of those companies are paying tax this year, normally all of those firms are paying tax - the governement will really be feeling the pinch, if the money is not coming in it cannot be spent.
Be warned there will be more cuts coming around.
Personal care (shower, dressing, breakfast and medications) is free to those who qualify and live in the community. The warden service has to be paid for over and above rent and council tax costs, currently warden fees per person is around 90 quid a month.
There are some folks in sheltered housing who do not have any family at all and rely entirely on the services they qualify for or pay for.
The red cord to pull in emergency goes to warden when on duty, but is directed to family when she is not.
I came home to care for my parents and my disabled husband was happy to retire here and we all lived in the family home until mum died. My OH was diagnoised with cancer and required five operations in Edinburgh while dad was in residential care as he could not cope at home alone. He did not wish to stay in residential care, we had been rehoused just round the corner to be support whilst my OH was recovering, then social services decided sheltered housing was his only option and he is now on the other side of town.
Prone to falls the warden has been a godsend, but it is not the first time my phone has gone off from the Aberdeen hub asking me to pick dad up from the floor as the warden was off duty.......usually when we are down the line.
Dignity and care in their 90`s is not a lot to ask. Keep up the good fight Dad.
orkneycadian
09-Oct-11, 13:15
Individual circumstances will always vary, but the underlying issue that people want and want costs.
On the one hand, people want free top notch care for their elderly relatives, on the other hand, those working in the care industry want better pay, better conditions, more time off, free pensions, etc. Result, spiralling costs to be met from budgets that can't cope with them. Those funding the budgets (us taxpayers) want lower or at least frozen council tax rates, lower income tax, lower VAT and we don't want our elderly relatives bank accounts plundered or houses sold to pay for the care they want, and we want them to have. Its an impossible situation, that on the face of it seems "solveable" by local authorities and Governments if they would just spend some money on it - Money that they do not have. UK total debt is expected to hit 10 trillion pounds by 2015 (source = Telegraph webpage). For those struggling to understand what that means, maybe this will help....
£10,000,000,000,000
Its like having no money in your pocket, your credit cards maxed out to the limit, money lenders banging on your door every day wanting their re-payments plus interest, and still wanting that 60" plasma and Playstation!
Thank God there is no longer a workhouse!
Both my parents served their country during WW2, worked all their days until retirement. Got no help with housing costs as dad has a private pension which now pays his rent, council tax and warden fees. Never in a position to buy a house or build up loads of savings to have plundered. They did not have a huge family, just me, who has done my level best to get the balance right between care for my husband and my dad, making my own health suffer as a result.
Wish I had all the answers, not just for Dad but for the rest of the old folks who wait at night for the warden to see them locked in safe for the night. Some of them don`t know which day of the week it is, so are unable to know when the warden is due or not.
There are many quite well off people in these care homes. Their families just put them in there for free.......should they be there? And what is 'help with housing costs'?
I have lived in 3 Countries and I never even thought of help.. If you cannot afford it you don't do it!
Am just again trying to fathom this all out...
I personally know of one care home with the Warden...perhaps not the proper description....but out of approx 12 people, 8 of them come from families who could afford to look after them! And then lets get into Mobility vehicles....car/ petrol/ insurance/ driving lessons all paid for. Something has to give here/ I spoke of this 3/4 years ago on here and was chastised for being too.....whatever you one to call me!
orkneycadian
09-Oct-11, 15:09
I don't disagree with you Poppet - I just see that for everyone to have what they really, really want will cost more than our governments and local authorities have. I don't agree with some of the reasons they are strapped for cash - Spending it on foreign aid and fighting other folks wars for them in other countries - But thats the governments we have collectively voted for, and if they see fit to spend money abroad, whilst our own elderly go short, theres not a lot I can do about it till the next election comes round.
I can see Britain becoming an awful lot more broken yet - In the last 10 years, something like 3.5 trillion US dollars on fighting the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Would pay for a lot of care!
The government, and I mean any of the parties who may be voted in have no idea that there is such poverty in this country so would have not the first clue how to tackle this rising issue. Better healthcare means folks live longer and it is a problem which needs sorting.
Any government also have the first problem on the to do list has to be sort out the mess the last lot made, no clean slate so to speak.
Oh to win the euromillions big style, but even that would only make a small dent in the shortfall in budget.....Oh, and I would have to buy a ticket first.!
poppet I like your stance but I don't have a solution . some of our learned orgists might enlightenist us thank you ???
Well said??????Wardens and home helps save money by helping people stay in their homes rather than going into very expensive care homes where the cost is met by the council. How we care for the weak and vulnerable eh?
Well said Squidge. You've said it all in very few words as usual.
Bob, the OP of this thread, obviously in charge of all his faculties and in his 90's, is so upset by these changes that he felt the need to post on here. Bob's concerns were also published in last week's John o'Groat Journal. I applaud him.
I don't think that any of us who are still of working age are under any illusion that our next few working years or our retirements will be rosy. I'm already anticipating that I'll have to work another 5 years longer. I'd rather that than have the most vulnerable among us denied the help they need and deserve.
You're a star Bob, keep it up. :)
poppet I like your stance but I don't have a solution . some of our learned orgists might enlightenist us thank you ???
Cut backs, cut backs, cut backs...The system we live under is unsustainable.....
I am not against people who are in need. Don't get me wrong.
But I had Insurance for that proverbial 'rainy day'. I had Insurance so that if I was hurt I would be looked after, I had Unemployment Insurance, I paid into the Gov't Pension, and a private Pension Plan. Could I afford it when I was married and starting off, and then 2 kids and then to London and then to Canada!!!!
I was barely able to live, but I ensured that old age would be looked after...and all the medical issues.
We cannot depend on our Gov't......Then, and now it 'hath come to pass'. So sayeth the Bible methinks.......
And when I was offshore sailing I had Insurance in case...You cannot go thru life expecting other people to foot the bill...read my previous post #12... Am I wrong?
orkneycadian
09-Oct-11, 22:31
I don't think that any of us who are still of working age are under any illusion that our next few working years or our retirements will be rosy.
I'm worried that we are not talking about the next few years being "unrosy" but the next few decades. And even then, I don't know what it will look like thereafter. Unless the whole thing just repeats on another cycle and we go back to "spend, spend, spend" for a few more decades and try and forget the pickle it got us in last time!
Yes, you are right orkneycadian and we could debate the points you raise until Kingdom Come and still not reach a resolution.
The fact that a man of 90 + years of age opens a thread on these forums because he is concerned about his day-to-day care disturbs me. I appreciate you don't live in Caithness - is the situation for the care of your elderly much different in Orkney? Whatever the arrangements are, please share. We could learn from your model.
If you want a debate on the economy and the long-term projections of such you could open a new thread....
I was just reading the BioDiversity thread and comments made by >>>>>>>>> , about the disdain that some people have for wild life....was thinking perhaps those people who stand up and shout about animals, would be better suited to stand up and help the elderly and those who need assistance.
Surely people in need should be supported first.....especially if things are as bad as being stated!
Personally I volunteer for Heart and Stroke, Cancer and other Charites who truly need out help.
Nature is part of our Universe, but people come first....Obvious to me anyway!
cuddlepop
10-Oct-11, 09:29
could someone tell me who answere the emergency call if the "resident" has no family when the wardens not on duty?
Where's the call diverted to.
I could add to this thread about the carry on over on Skye,which beggers believe but I'll just get banned as it involves the HC....know suprises there then.
bobandag16
10-Oct-11, 10:36
Well said Squidge. You've said it all in very few words as usual.
Bob, the OP of this thread, obviously in charge of all his faculties and in his 90's, is so upset by these changes that he felt the need to post on here. Bob's concerns were also published in last week's John o'Groat Journal. I applaud him.
I don't think that any of us who are still of working age are under any illusion that our next few working years or our retirements will be rosy. I'm already anticipating that I'll have to work another 5 years longer. I'd rather that than have the most vulnerable among us denied the help they need and deserve.
You're a star Bob, keep it up. :) thank you no star just upset to see people upset and can do nothing.
In answer to CP`s question I am not entirely sure as when the helpcall was set up for Dad we were told we HAD to have two contacts who would turn out in an emergency. My best friend took on this role as hubby and I were in Edinburgh at the time and now she shares that role with me, although I am the first person they would phone if she is at home she lives nearer to Dad than I do and can be there quicker.
Having said that, neither of us can lift him after a fall and the warden was never expected to lift him either, just be there with him and call for the ambulance crews.
cuddlepop
10-Oct-11, 16:13
Thanks for the reply Poppet .
I wonder if you had no one you'd not get an emergency bell.
When we talked about it for mum her neighbourgh was willing to do it but would be at least 30mins away before she'd get there if there was cover at work so she could go.
orkneycadian
10-Oct-11, 19:07
YI appreciate you don't live in Caithness - is the situation for the care of your elderly much different in Orkney? Whatever the arrangements are, please share. We could learn from your model.
I am afraid its no different over here. In fact, maybe worse - There was a huge stushie last year when it was planned to withdraw the wardens on 3 sheltered housing schemes and redeploy them, and the money saved, into a "mobile responder" service. There was uproar, and eventually the council backed down after a significant protest campaign. Not sure how long for though.
As far as I understand it, the "Mobile Responders" cover the whole of the mainland and the linked isles - And there is only 1 on call at anytime - So if they are deployed to one end of the island, and you need them at the other, you either have to wait, or the "HQ" pages the family.
Is it concerning? Yes, of course it is, and I can understand how the elderly themselves would be some of the most concerned. Will it get any better just because we are concerned about it? Probably not in the short term, or even the medium term unless more money can be found. One of the reasons all the elders in our family have to date been "family cared for", in either their own homes, or in their offsprings homes or even "granny flats". At least that way, we know they are, and have been, cared for in their twighlight years, better than having to depend on the state.
Before Dad was in sheltered housing he had the alarm call system in the old family home and relied on three or four neighbours who had keys and were retired so no problem with availability.
We were told that without these keyholders we would not have been allowed the call system for Dad. As it turned out the twice he really needed it when he fell down the stairs in one case the neck pendant didn`t go off and he lay for hours until the next door neighbour saw the lights on at 4am and came to see what was wrong, and the other time he got mum to press the alarm and when the voice came on the line she said "sorry to bother you, we`re fine" and they believed her, even knowing she had severe dementia and a morbid fear of authority. Luckily, the same neighbour saw the curtains were shut mid morning the next day and phoned me to ask should he call round and check.
....or should this be part 3?
Deputy warden due to go on holidays very soon, and surprise, surprise, there will be no warden cover in her absence!
oldmarine
14-Oct-11, 16:33
I have read many interesting comments made by various ones on caring for the elderly. It has become very difficult for younger people who have their own children to raise (can be quite costly) and still look after their elderly parents. The USA (under FDR) devised a system called Social Security for retirement and later set up another system called Medicare (with funds taken from Social Security to pay the costs). Many people refer to this as Socialism and that may be an accurate term. I am not privy to what Great Britain has for retirement & medical for older people, but I hope it is something similar to the USA. The point I try to make is: older people have long been a burden to the younger ones and most often quite a challenge regardless of the circumstances. I personally tried to make investments from which I could survive when I got older without being a financial burden to my children, grandchildren, etc.
blackcat777
16-Oct-11, 21:27
One of the things that strikes me on this matter is who exactly in the family unit will care for the old folk? The problem is that it is usually the "woman". (not always of course) Now in times gone by that might be difficult in anyones book, caring for elderly family members, rearing children, keeping house... but it some point in society women were at home to be able to do these things. Now however most women have to work as well as their husbands to make ends meet.
Okay before I get shouted at for trying to keep women tied to the kitchen sink - that is not the case! I work myself and enjoy doing that. the problem is that in my own experience its not as easy as saying we should be looking at how it was done years ago! because years ago there was usually a family member able to do it.
I'm not passing moral judgement or trying to make any particular statement about women working, - that's not an issue at all, its just for someone in the family to Care for their elderly parents, they have to be there at fixed times of the day - not always easy if you're at work, and its impossible to stop work and pay the bills, thats the real dilemma.
bobandag16
17-Oct-11, 16:54
care outwith family. some have nobody. but wish to be independant. rely on promises from .government .cannot help themselves.
As folks live to be much older now the sons and daughters caring for their elderly parents are sometimes in need of care themselves. There are not always grandchildren to take up the slack, and in this day and age the elderly have to be so careful of who they befriend, not like the olden days when children went shopping/did chores for elderly neighbours because they wanted to and enjoyed learning at the feet of the older generation.
I am told I am a pretty good cook, but that is not thanks to my beloved mother, but an old lady who used to live across the road from us. The rest of the children round the doors my age were all boys. I played a fair few games of cricket, football and could hold my own in a rugby scrum, but enjoyed the two days after school I went to the neighbours house and learned to cook. All from scratch, no shortcuts.
As of Monday 24th the council`s replacement for the warden is to be a daily phone call to check the resident is well and there are no household repairs to be reported to the maintenance department.
Interesting to see how this works, especially with hard of hearing residents who either don`t hear the phone over the tv or radio or can`t hear what is being said.
The council will still not confirm what (if any) discount is being given for no warden service, but as it was lumped together last April into the rent accounts there is probably no way of doing any discount as it is all shown as Rent.
cuddlepop
22-Oct-11, 17:47
My fear is that this lack of holiday cover is a "wee experiment" and if they manage to pull it off without incidents then well,Is there a need for a permanent Warden.
My own mother hated phones and wouldnt answere unless someone else was in the house to make her.
You are a DIY expert CP. You have hit the nail firmly on the head.
Fully expecting that I will get the call to my mobile as when Dad got the tenancy it was me who set up all the direct debits etc., for him therefore my contact number the council have. Will wait and see.
Still have homecarers who are new to clients goint to old addresses where careplans haven`t been updated, in our case four years ago, until new one came this week. Managed to get address right, but some of the content is more fairytale than reality.
oldmarine
22-Oct-11, 19:07
There are many problems that surface when people grow older and infirm. I saw it with my mother and I now am concerned for myself. As I age (now 86 years old) I don't want to be a burdon to my young wife 17 years younger than me, or to my children. It's a valid problem for we older folk.
[QUOTE=oldmarine;898078]There are many problems that surface when people grow older and infirm. I saw it with my mother and I now am concerned for myself. As I age (now 86 years old) I don't want to be a burdon to my young wife 17 years younger than me, or to my children. It's a valid problem for we older folk.[/QUOTE
OMarine...I am and regularly come to South Fla....It is so sad to see the Vietnam Warriors/ Soldiers with no one to look after them.
Was in a bar one night and had conversation with two. What thy did and what they saw.....The World never prepared people for that. A great lesson to be learned......
When I was a youngster we had a man who used to drop in to see us/ Condition at that time was 'shell Shocked'. An awful World sometimes!
In addition...People should remind themselves every so often, that two Thirds of the inhabitants of this World, don't have enough to eat, no real bed to sleep on, no clean water, no hot water, maybe no water at all, and the rest goes on.
Imagine being born in the Horn of Africe/ imagine fighting in a war and then being tossed aside when you get out....there are many worse things than living in a home, getting 2/3 hot meals a day, getting free medical care, getting free everything, including that 'thing' that I still do not understand....Mobility Cars, petrol, Insurance, Driving Lessons, welfare and 'job seekers allowance'!
Methinks we are all too well off!.
Go to Southern Florida when I presently am and see that Vietnam War Vets/ they have nothing and nowhere to go/ they have seen and likely did the most disturbing things imaginable..or unimaginable! I have seen some and it is not pleasant.
What are we all complaining about....
I think that we should be thanking GOD, or whomever you believe in that we have what what we have and stop bitching about every little thing.
It seems the more we have the more we want. That is the way of the World, and you can include me to a point.
Want a bigger house, a second vacation home, a Turbo in my cars to suck more gas and to get 10 miles more per gallon, and this leads me to pay more fines for speeding.
Lets just be satisfied with what we have....and thank someone for it/ perhaps share a 'wee bity'.
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