View Full Version : Will Apple ever be the same?
teddybear1873
06-Oct-11, 17:05
With Steve Jobs passing away and the so called Iphone 5 being the Iphone 4s, will Apple keep going strong or slowly go downhill?
Consumers here in the States were very surprised that there wasn't an Iphone 5 and they don't even know when that will be released. Other company's are breathing down Apple's neck and catching up fast. Some critic's reckon Samsung will hold up strong for the mobile phone and Amazon just releasing the Kindle Fire, which is priced at $199 instead of the Ipad 2 at $499.
Steve Jobs was maybe not an inventor, but he was a genius all the same.
Will Apple stay strong or will the other big guns overtake?
I think Apple will still be strong player because of the foundations laid down by Steve Jobs, but like you say, with other companies now catching up, how strong is hard to guage. At one time Nokia could do no wrong but over the last few years it seems to have lost it's way a bit, yet it's still a major force in the phone market. I can see a similar thing possibly happening to Apple, it just depends on what new products they release and more importantly, how the company is managed without Steve Jobs at the helm, perhaps the new CEO was chosen because he shared the same outlook as Jobs.
There seems to be a lot of disappointment because Apple decided to use the 4s name instead of 5, how fickle some people can be!
teddybear1873
06-Oct-11, 19:22
I think Apple will still be strong player because of the foundations laid down by Steve Jobs, but like you say, with other companies now catching up, how strong is hard to guage. At one time Nokia could do no wrong but over the last few years it seems to have lost it's way a bit, yet it's still a major force in the phone market. I can see a similar thing possibly happening to Apple, it just depends on what new products they release and more importantly, how the company is managed without Steve Jobs at the helm, perhaps the new CEO was chosen because he shared the same outlook as Jobs.
There seems to be a lot of disappointment because Apple decided to use the 4s name instead of 5, how fickle some people can be!
There would have been an outcry if they called it the Iphone 5 Jox. The phone is the same design as the 4, just a better camera, processor and other bits here and there. Everyone over here is about all new designs and major added features. A phone is a bloody phone. What more can they do, don't they do enough as it is?
NickInTheNorth
06-Oct-11, 19:33
well apple certainly struggled last time Steve Jobs was out of the company - Bill Gates actually bailed them out that time.
Lets hope they do better this time around!
It just shows it doesn't matter how rich and successful you are, when the ferryman calls, you go.
i think Apple will do just fine, however the Samsung is a FAR superior fone all round than the iPhone
oldmarine
07-Oct-11, 18:11
Never used Apple products or any Jobs products, but people using them strongly proclaim them.
Looks like Jobs has emerged as somewhat of a hero with the passing of a great one.
weezer 316
07-Oct-11, 18:23
urrgh, I DETEST apple. before anyone starts I use linux but I haev alwasy found (especially with the latest windows 7) microsofts operating system to be superior to thiers. PLus I am a (crap) programmer on the odd occasion with some perl, C# and java, and pc's destroy macs. Then their is the contstant costly upgrades from Apple......I coudl go on and on.
And lets not mention they think they are above the law and their worknig practices with thier suppliers and employes are an absolute disgrace shall we.
A triumph or marketing over actual substance if you ask me.
wiifungii
07-Oct-11, 19:26
urrgh, I DETEST apple. before anyone starts I use linux but I haev alwasy found (especially with the latest windows 7) microsofts operating system to be superior to thiers. PLus I am a (crap) programmer on the odd occasion with some perl, C# and java, and pc's destroy macs. Then their is the contstant costly upgrades from Apple......I coudl go on and on.
And lets not mention they think they are above the law and their worknig practices with thier suppliers and employes are an absolute disgrace shall we.
A triumph or marketing over actual substance if you ask me.
Totally disagree on that.......used windows for over a decade, built my own so it always was the cheaper option.......then one day I got sick of the messy hashed together style of windows and the way programs are written for it so i got a Mac and I definitely feel the relief that after a year it has very rarely been turned off and has never crashed, never lost any important files and all hardware runs perfect updates run smoothly.....I could go on and on lol
wiifungii
07-Oct-11, 19:32
I dont know about the Apple companys practices but hey I bet if you digged deep enough you find a pattern emerging with them all.....thats business i guess, not meaning to be distasteful.
No substance really? Why are all the Pro's in all sorts of sectors using Apple products. Answer: Because they work on a pro level with pro standards for pros. If there was no substance then this would not be the case, anyway I just disagree, not getting into an arguement or anything, just think your a little too opinionated about the whole Apple thing really.
toffee_pie
07-Oct-11, 20:08
apple have pulled wool over the eyes for years now with the i phone, clearly a mass marketing product sold en masse.
It is not even very good, well yes its good but there are many many better products out there. consumers now are leaving apple behind and android is a dominant force in the mobile market.
even before steve passed away apple were lagging behind and they knew they were screwed, hence blocking the sale of galaxy tabs in europe.
wouldnt mind it but apple get most of all the ICs for their products from companies like samsung... makes of that what you will .:eek:
the galaxy s2 is just as good if not better than the i phone 4, 4s or whatever you want to call it.
the restrictions and limitations on the apple iOS dont appeal to everyone and more importantly its (apple iphone 4s) priced like a maybach in the mobile world...
computer says no.
toffee_pie
07-Oct-11, 20:12
i think Apple will do just fine, however the Samsung is a FAR superior fone all round than the iPhone
the galaxy s2 is incredible, even some apple fan boys i have heard moved to android .
thats like getting a celtic supporter to make breakfast for a troupee of rangers lads
secrets in symmetry
07-Oct-11, 23:55
urrgh, I DETEST apple. before anyone starts I use linux but I haev alwasy found (especially with the latest windows 7) microsofts operating system to be superior to thiers. PLus I am a (crap) programmer on the odd occasion with some perl, C# and java, and pc's destroy macs. Then their is the contstant costly upgrades from Apple......I coudl go on and on.
And lets not mention they think they are above the law and their worknig practices with thier suppliers and employes are an absolute disgrace shall we.
A triumph or marketing over actual substance if you ask me.
Lol! I didn't expect a religious rant from you weezy! I thought you weren't into religion, whether it be the religion of God or the religion of the OS. Were you drunk when you wrote that, or does the OS that you typed your rant on not provide you with a spell checker?
I only noticed yesterday that I type the dear departed one's surname at the Unix command line several times an hour....
[QUOTE=weezer 316;894003]urrgh, I DETEST apple. before anyone starts I use linux but I haev alwasy found (especially with the latest windows 7) microsofts operating system to be superior to thiers. PLus I am a (crap) programmer on the odd occasion with some perl, C# and java, and pc's destroy macs. Then their is the contstant costly upgrades from Apple......I coudl go on and on.
And lets not mention they think they are above the law and their worknig practices with thier suppliers and employes are an absolute disgrace shall we.
But Weezer/ shouldn't they have a 'spell check system')????? Just jokin!
With Steve Jobs passing away and the so called Iphone 5 being the Iphone 4s, will Apple keep going strong or slowly go downhill?
Consumers here in the States were very surprised that there wasn't an Iphone 5 and they don't even know when that will be released. Other company's are breathing down Apple's neck and catching up fast. Some critic's reckon Samsung will hold up strong for the mobile phone and Amazon just releasing the Kindle Fire, which is priced at $199 instead of the Ipad 2 at $499.
Steve Jobs was maybe not an inventor, but he was a genius all the same.
Will Apple stay strong or will the other big guns overtake?
This was all a planned event.....They knew that Jobs was ill/ terminal, thus the 4S.
The Kindle Fire (only being released in the US) is of lessor quality, no Camera etc etc and is really the Blackberry Tablet again is lessor form...A cheaper Unit/ made at the same factory as the Blackberry Tablet! Methinks there is a 'game' being played here....we will just have to wait and see....
Metalattakk
08-Oct-11, 02:52
But Weezer/ shouldn't they have a 'spell check system')????? Just jokin!
The Kindle Fire (only being released in the US) is of lessor quality, no Camera etc etc and is really the Blackberry Tablet again is lessor form...A cheaper Unit/ made at the same factory as the Blackberry Tablet! Methinks there is a 'game' being played here....we will just have to wait and see....
I call Muphry's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry%27s_law) on this one.
I call Muphry's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry's_law) on this one.
Oh dearry me/ it was a Joke!!!! I guess you didn't get it.......
The world has really lost a great man.. Steve Jobs will remain as one of the most influential technology innovators of all time.
Illuminating read - http://gawker.com/5847344/what-every...out-steve-jobs (http://gawker.com/5847344/what-everyone-is-too-polite-to-say-about-steve-jobs) (What everyone is too polite to say about Steve Jobs) - amazing how everyone becomes beatified upon death.
It's interesting to read that Jobs spent a year doing the alternative/Eastern medicine stuff before having the tumour surgically removed, his condition would still be serious but perhaps he would have lived longer. I knew it must be getting to that point when he stepped down as CEO, which I think was partly due to pressure, they needed to have a chain of succession is place or their stock would have plummeted.
What Apple basically do is value form over function - a less polite person would say that they are vain and narcissistic - that's why it's difficult to get an Apple product with more than two USB ports or to replace a battery on something that isn't a laptop. They basically commoditised technology and turned computers into little walled-gardens; they become more like appliances than computers. Which I think is a bad idea on many levels and for so many reasons. What they do is sell a lifestyle: buy this product and be like the people in this advert.
On a side note, from what I keep reading and based upon predictions, the Kindle Fire will outsell all other tablets.
EDIT: Tons of things are made at the same factory and many pieces of technology use the same constituent parts. So that isn't a valid argument for anything.
Also despite all this I still say Steve Jobs was an interesting guy with a different way of looking at things. I just wish people would stop treating him like a cult leader, inflating his accomplishments and generally being fawning sycophants.
Agree with some of your 'thoughts'. Had people on TV tonite who said he was a very difficult man to deal with/ And from what is known, was not much of a benefactor/ none actually unless he did it secretly, which one of his associates said he didn't.
Now the Kindle is 7" as is the BB which has not sold well at all, but at least it had 'toys'....camera etc.
Perhaps Kindle Fire and Touch will do well....but at the moment it won't work outside the US.
"geniuses" are often flawed. Sometimes seriously so. Whether he was truly a genius will be debated over and over but he was obviously driven. We don't know what his legacy will be. I would have hatedto work for him but I like my iPhone. I hope apple continue to produce beautiful pieces of technology and to offer an alternative to Microsoft. I also hope they become more socially responsible and treat their staff better. It will be interesting to see.
Everyone seems to forgot about Woz (Steve Wozniak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Wozniak)) who was a major factor in the early days of Apple, it's as if they've brushed him under the carpet because he's too much of a geek, which doesn't match with the lifestyle Apple sell.
Steve Jobs was basically a high-level designer and marketing guy. He didn't program, didn't do circuit layouts or electrical design, beyond some basic stuff in the early days which was mostly done by Woz. All he did was say 'I want something that does this and this and sort of looks like this' and to be honest a lot of the designs borrowed heavily from the utopian science fiction of the 80s and 90s. You can called that genius if you want but it just seems a bit hyperbolic to me. I have an idea for a starship that travels through hyperspace and time, if only someone could build it for me.
He didn't invent the smartphone, MP3 player, tablet or even OSX which basically builds upon FreeBSD. He didn't even make the best smartphone, MP3 player or tablet all he did was lead the people who built the most marketable smartphone, MP3 player and tablet (they sell a lifestyle) and that looks nice to people with certain ascetic sensibilities. He also gave some presentations.
I like the E-Ink Kindles but not the Kindle tablet, it's not the tablet I'd go for, that being said I do expect it to sell well.
Apple isn't the only alternative to Microsoft, there are about six viable alternatives by my count. Apple have traded on the perception that they're a more free, individualist, open and underdog alternative to Microsoft which just isn't true. If anything the opposite is true Apple are a lot more scarier and closed than Microsoft.
I use a bit of everything though I lean towards things based on Linux or Free Libre and Open Source Software.
EDIT: Forgot to say that other companies aren't playing catch-up, they've lapped Apple at this point. That's what Apple is good at: marketing, convincing the general public that their products are better. Apple is about to release the iPhone5 which will be similar in spec to the Samsung Galaxy S2 (GT-I9100) or the HTC Sensation, but both of those companies are ready to release newer models and the Nexus Prime is coming, it was supposed to be this week or next but they delayed it because it would seem crass given that Jobs had died. That's why they're doctoring photos and trying to ban the products of competitors.
Apple always claims everyone is copying them, when they copy everyone else just look at this YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq-e0getf4M). There's nothing wrong with copying it happens the whole time in industry but Apple try to take some sort of moral high-ground.
secrets in symmetry
09-Oct-11, 16:45
One advantage of OS X over Linux is that you can run Microsoft Office - without resorting to trickery like VirtualBox.
I love irony. :cool:
You can run Microsoft Office on OSX, I recommend you make a cup of coffee while you wait for it to startup. Up until recently it was a cut down version also.
I'd make the argument that people should be using open and standardised document formats anyway, that way no matter what office suite you use you can read them. Imagine if some other things in your daily life were as closed and proprietary as some of the software out there.
If you have to read MS Office files then beyond virtualisation, you can install MS Office using Wine, Cedega or Crossover. Or LibreOffice (the better version of OpenOffice after Oracle took over Sun) can read them fine, the only way you'd have problems is if you were a legal office or something with some complicated macro setup. I suppose Google Docs is an option also.
David Banks
09-Oct-11, 18:23
Steve Jobs was nothing less than a visionary. His focus on users' experiences was above average.
From what I've heard, I would NOT have liked working for him.
I have never owned an Apple product.
He was the super salesman/evangelist for very expensive products, and without him, Apple has only one way to go - down, down, down
in my opinion.
secrets in symmetry
09-Oct-11, 18:44
You can run Microsoft Office on OSX, I recommend you make a cup of coffee while you wait for it to startup. Up until recently it was a cut down version also.Microsoft Office performs well under OS X, and it's reasonably well integrated into the OS. In fact, Office 2011 is the best version of MS Office I've used.
I'd make the argument that people should be using open and standardised document formats anyway, that way no matter what office suite you use you can read them. Imagine if some other things in your daily life were as closed and proprietary as some of the software out there.In principle, yes. In practice, in the real world, that sort of idealism is simply not practical at present.
If you have to read MS Office files then beyond virtualisation, you can install MS Office using Wine, Cedega or Crossover. Or LibreOffice (the better version of OpenOffice after Oracle took over Sun) can read them fine, the only way you'd have problems is if you were a legal office or something with some complicated macro setup. I suppose Google Docs is an option also.What you say about Libre Office reading most MS Office documents is not correct in my experience. I would guess that you are a one (or very few) man operation who doesn't have to read and modify other people's MS Office documents on a regular basis. A large proportion of Word documents don't display properly in Libre (or Open) Office, and in my experience, any document with Word forms is almost guaranteed not to work. Similarly, the majority of Excel spreadsheets don't work properly in Libre Office. A significant fraction don't work at all. Maybe they're badly produced Word or Excel documents, but I still have to deal with the godforsaken things, and Libre Office doesn't do that job without a lot of pain.
In my experience, Wine is buggy, Microsoft Office with Wine is slow, and it crashes a lot.... I haven't tried the others.
I get the feeling that Apple's competitors are encouraging the question about whether Apple will be the same after Steve Jobs because they know their customers will say to themselves that the next Apple gadget is not the same since Steve Jobs died.
teddybear1873
09-Oct-11, 20:16
I get the feeling that Apple's competitors are encouraging the question about whether Apple will be the same after Steve Jobs because they know their customers will say to themselves that the next Apple gadget is not the same since Steve Jobs died.
Your probably right Rheg. Apple was Steve Jobs and that's why people buy will alway buy them, well until further notice. People here are buying the new Apple iphone 4s left right and centre, not because it isn't the best phone, but It's the Apple and it's brand new....It's all to do with fashion, and how cool someone looks.
Hi,
The demise of Steve Jobs is indeed sad news, especially more for the fans of Apple devices. It remains to be seen whether Apple will be the same...
Renald
...People here are buying the new Apple iphone 4s left right and centre, not because it isn't the best phone, but It's the Apple and it's brand new....It's all to do with fashion, and how cool someone looks...
I've never understood this, and it happens with more than just Apple products. Why would anyone buy an overpriced (iPhones have a 50% margin, they cost about $250 per unit to make (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/01/18/apple_may_see_50_percent_margin_on_each_iphone_sal e.html) and that's being conservative) and inferior product and then act all elitist over it. If anything buying something because everyone else, or all the 'cool' people have one would be a disadvantage to me, again this goes back to my comments about them selling a lifestyle and focusing too much on marketing.
It's possible that with increasing competition from superior products and with the death of Steve Jobs that Apple will start to wither, so much of their success with based upon a cult-of-personality. What doesn't help is that Jobs never mentored or groomed a successor, partly because they were afraid that the contenders not chosen as his successor would jump ship or be head hunted by Google.
EDIT: Just reading the Telegraph obituary on Steve Jobs (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/technology-obituaries/8810037/Steve-Jobs-obituary.html), it's surprisingly balanced, still inaccurate in places but it seems like one of the most balanced I've read.
weezer 316
10-Oct-11, 11:38
Grown arms and legs since the last time I looked!
Spot on RecQuery. Built on FreeBSD is exactly what it is. I have been using windows 7 on my work machine for about 8 months and its never crashed yet.
As for the open formats, there is absolutely no reason this cant be accomplished bar coporate wishes to crown their format as king. The webpage you are viewing this on is an open standard that all can comply with just fine. No reason other documents cannot be the same.
And if crashing machines bothers you that much, I recommend linux, whcih has the added advantage it is free and you can make it look like your apple machine with avant window navigator and various other bits and bobs.
Plus the worst thing about apple is the very people who buy their products. I have never seen such smug eejits in all my life. I swear their machines wont turn on unless you answer 10 question from the book of jobs.
For the record and to make me a total hypocrite I own an iphone ,which I will be binning in 4 moths time when my contract is up.
Rant over
I've never understood why people don't just buy microsoft and stop being berks.
teddybear1873
10-Oct-11, 20:48
I've never understood why people don't just buy microsoft and stop being berks.
If Apple lowered the price of the IMac so it's far more affordable, Microsoft would be in serious trouble.
If Apple lowered the price of the IMac so it's far more affordable, Microsoft would be in serious trouble.
They'll never do that, I think they purposely over price to enhance the perceived elitism factor. Gamers pretty much have to use Windows. You can try workarounds on both OSX and Linux and there is the odd native or crossplatform game, but you have to keep a Windows partition handy.
OSX really doesn't scale well either with regards to server stuff, it's not Linux or Windows. It tries to be a bit of both but never quite makes it.
Various businesses have some in-house archaic and esoteric software. I mean granted you could virtualise that but they won't. OSX has some big security bugs also, somehow they've managed to punch holes in the security that is FreeBSD or any other Unix-style OS. They just haven't been exploited yet because the return on investment isn't worth it.
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