View Full Version : Please treat the maternity ward with respect.
No I am not referring to Caithness General!
This is the time of year when The Atlantic Grey Seals haul out to have their pups, there are numerous sites around the county but the best known must be Sannick Bay out by Duncansby.
By all means go and have a look but keep to the top of the dunes and please give the beach a wide berth and leave them in peace.
Would you appreciate it if your OH was in labour and folk came charging through the maternity ward, I think not so give a little respect to the seals please.
Some great pictures have been posted by seabird on the biodiversity section for those of you who don't have the oppurtunity to go and view for yourselves.
Perhaps this is not the proper place, but I shall comment anyway.
Recent lows in Cod/Fish stocks are being blamed on two(2) aspects of seal survival due to the lack of seal hunting.
1. Seals eat Cod/Fish
2. Seals damaging cod stocks by spreading 'Cod Worms'.
Numerous papers have been released on this issue....How can we continue to protect Seals whom we cannot eat, and allow our Cod Stocks to disappear?
Seals hunt in the sea, which is their only source of food. We, (humans), found a way to harvest what lives in the sea, but we don't have a right to it. We, unlike seals, have access to other sources of food, and the cod stocks are down to over-fishing by us, not seals. So the best way for fish stocks to rise is for us to call a halt to fishing, but that'll never happen because too may people will lose jobs.
Or is that too naive an outlook?
No, we believe what we are 'fed'.
There is irrefutable evidence that the two reasons Cod Stocks are down are
1. Overfishing
2. Seals......
Your arguement on the fact that we don't have a right...Why did we nearly 'exterminate' foxes. They meant no harm to the Human being.
Don't think you are naive....But I think that we should all get better versed to the reality of what is occurring.
Yes I remember many years ago, off the coast of Caithness, fishing boats in pairs, dragging nets between the....maybe a mile apart and cleaning everything they could get.
And the amount of 'Black Fish' that leaves the North of..........amazing.
But seals have been allowed to 'prosper'...and thus consume Cod....One grey seal consumes 1.4 tons of Fish per year, and seals have been increasing 7% each and every year. I am not saying to kill all the seals/ like everything in life we should 'manage' problems such as these.
As the guy in the film said.. Houston we have a problem!
Some great pictures have been posted by seabird on the biodiversity section for those of you who don't have the oppurtunity to go and view for yourselves.
Thanks Lizz, I've not had a chance to go for a peek myself this year, yet.... :)
weedonald
03-Oct-11, 07:44
I agree with you Lizz.
Manage....now that's a provocative word.
What gives any species the right to control another?
If the human race was less destructive of it's environment they world would not be in such dire straits with regard to feeding it's self and don't get me started on fishing methods and the ludicrous rules that are applied such as quotas.
A few years ago the seal numbers crashed due to a particularly nasty virus and they have only recently regained their numbers in certain areas.
All I am asking is that they are given respect for a few weeks and a chance to breed with out disturbance..
I would also point out that they do have an economic value as they attract tourism, just because we don't eat them does not mean they are they are of no worth.
No, we believe what we are 'fed'.
There is irrefutable evidence that the two reasons Cod Stocks are down are
1. Overfishing
2. Seals......
Prior to comercial fishing ( and in co-exitance with seals) cod stocks were what nature intended. Seals eat many different types of sea animals, not just fish. The predator that upset the marine balance for cod was the human and not the seal.
Manage....now that's a provocative word.
What gives any species the right to control another?
If the human race was less destructive of it's environment they world would not be in such dire straits with regard to feeding it's self and don't get me started on fishing methods and the ludicrous rules that are applied such as quotas.
A few years ago the seal numbers crashed due to a particularly nasty virus and they have only recently regained their numbers in certain areas.
All I am asking is that they are given respect for a few weeks and a chance to breed with out disturbance..
I would also point out that they do have an economic value as they attract tourism, just because we don't eat them does not mean they are they are of no worth.
Humans do control...take my aforementioned issue on foxes....
The Issues in fishing were agreed to by 'your Gov't' the one that rec'd the Majority....You have to take responsibility for that one!
Yes perhaps they should be born in peace..
I doubt if seals attract tourism/ whale watching does but seals///practically any coast line in the World has them...
Perhaps some objectivity of the 'seal thing'.................
Humans do control...take my aforementioned issue on foxes....
The Issues in fishing were agreed to by 'your Gov't' the one that rec'd the Majority....You have to take responsibility for that one!
So then you agree that the fishing issues are man made?
Humans like to think they do control.Unfortunately their intentional short sightedness never quite gets the whole picture of "unintended" cosequences to their control.
Of course they control, most of the time out of necessity....
It is normally agreed by Consensus, but then there is 'quid pro quo', but it never seems to be equal!
I still feel that allowing unlimited numbers of seals is not the way to go. Things seemed to be OK years ago...well I did know someone who was a fisherman all his life/ very objective smart man from the Capital of the North, and he felt that seals were a problem/ then read the reports of the amount a seal eats, and the increase in numbers, including the natural diseases, and there are many who think we have a deteriorating problem.....yes of course overfishing by all and sundry also adds up, but something should be done in conjunction with other decisions.
So you agree that Seals should be exempt from control?
orkneycadian
03-Oct-11, 22:34
Funny creatures humans.....
In one thread, they get all uptight about spiders that will do no harm to them, and wont steal their food supply - In fact, they will help humans by scavenging pests.
In another, they get all protective of vermin that will eat their food.
Tis a funny old world.....
Now that is a very valid point......well said.
For goodness sake what is the matter that you cannot appreciate the value of wild life!
Whilst I do not advocate that all species should be protected, especially the human one, at least show some respect for the biodiversity of this planet without which we humans would be on the endangered list.
??????????????????
Have no idea of what you talketh!
Then may be you should check it out!
For goodness sake what is the matter that you cannot appreciate the value of wild life!
Whilst I do not advocate that all species should be protected, especially the human one, at least show some respect for the biodiversity of this planet without which we humans would be on the endangered list.
I appreciate wild life/ my grandfather was a gamekeeper and my father a fisherman. I have sailed the ocean, been surrounded off the Azores by 60-70 foot whales and porpoises, in a 34 foot sailboat. I have taken people 'whale watching' off Cape Cod.
And the word 'Manage' is provocative to you.....? We should all be working together to preserve one of our most important food sources, not closing our eyes to accurate statistics!
And I do respect the Biodiversity site on Caithness.org.....But that being said there is a problem and it should be addressed.....
And I know what Thumper does, and have heard good things about such efforts, especially when I come to Kaitness, altho' I don't announce my itinary each and every day! And you don't want to protect the Human species...or is that just a 'dig'?
And the Endangered list, another Misnomer.
Anyway it has been good conversing about such.
So are you saying that as long as wild life is managed for the benefit of the humans that's to be applauded?
As regards the human species there are times when I think a cull would be in order as we have become an infestation of the planet but that is not to say I have no regard for my fellow man I just despair for them at times and that's a whole new can of worms that I do not propose to open on this thread.
So are you saying that as long as wild life is managed for the benefit of the humans that's to be applauded?
As regards the human species there are times when I think a cull would be in order as we have become an infestation of the planet but that is not to say I have no regard for my fellow man I just despair for them at times and that's a whole new can of worms that I do not propose to open on this thread.
Necessity........
oldmarine
04-Oct-11, 22:52
Seals hunt in the sea, which is their only source of food. We, (humans), found a way to harvest what lives in the sea, but we don't have a right to it. We, unlike seals, have access to other sources of food, and the cod stocks are down to over-fishing by us, not seals. So the best way for fish stocks to rise is for us to call a halt to fishing, but that'll never happen because too may people will lose jobs.
Or is that too naive an outlook?
For people who depend on fishing for their livelyhood that is being too naive. However, even over fishing has to be controlled or we will run out of fish for re-production. Then where we be?
I still feel that allowing unlimited numbers of seals is not the way to go. Things seemed to be OK years ago...well I did know someone who was a fisherman all his life/ very objective smart man from the Capital of the North, and he felt that seals were a problem/ then read the reports of the amount a seal eats, and the increase in numbers, including the natural diseases, and there are many who think we have a deteriorating problem.....yes of course overfishing by all and sundry also adds up, but something should be done in conjunction with other decisions.
So you agree that Seals should be exempt from control?
Seals numbers are controlled by the limitations imposed by their environment. They cannot grow beyond their critical mass, after which nature takes over and culls any excess. Because we have developed agriculture, technology and manipulate the environment, we feel like these natural laws do not apply to us. Humans have gone over their critical mass long ago and we think we are stable, established and in control. That we manage and manipulate nature to our will. I probably will not be here to see it, but one day we will go over that tipping point and nature will cull what it needs from us. The seals are not in excess. We are.
PS: Do I think seals should be exempt from control? I think that where there is a conflict between animal and human populations, that the animals will always "be controlled", because of what we percieve as our superiority. Seals do not need to be controlled, but they will be. Just as Elephants in Africa or rabbits on farms. And yes, some of these need to be controlled so that we do not loose too much of our food to them. Again it is our parctices ( for example agriculture|) which induces the imbalance (food abundance) which makes certain scavanger species like rats and rabbits grow beyond what nature allows.
Now I will ask you a question: where does disturbing wild animals in a natural behaviour, such as giving birth or raising young, contitute population control? It does not. And it is cruel and against animal welfare. Measures taken to control animal populations are not supposed to be cruel.
Not superiority////common sense and necessity.
And who spoke of disturbing anything.......
I deliberately stayed away from the Biodiversity thread/ I am not against who they are/what they say and what they do....I commend Thumper for what is done/
What I say is one cannot ignore the problems of food shortage..
And BTW ...You sent Heather Mills to Canada to pose with the seals!!!! Now that was a coup!
oldmarine
05-Oct-11, 21:30
Not superiority////common sense and necessity.
And who spoke of disturbing anything.......
I deliberately stayed away from the Biodiversity thread/ I am not against who they are/what they say and what they do....I commend Thumper for what is done/
What I say is one cannot ignore the problems of food shortage..
And BTW ...You sent Heather Mills to Canada to pose with the seals!!!! Now that was a coup!
Looks like you are being very cautious with your comment. I don't blame you. this could be a topic that could get you in trouble. :lol:
I think you are being too kind as usual Oldmarine. The OP was posting a timeous warning to those of us who may have the privilege of enjoying the North coasts and beaches of Caithness at a time which is crucial to the Seal birthing community.
The message was "respect".
The fishing industry is an entirely different topic.
I don't know about Sandy but a certain person from a certain Island won't be happy until every non human specie is wiped out. Judging from previous threads :eek:
Yes, Ducati. But this thread is about the Seal pups.
Pay attention! ;)
Yes, Ducati. But this thread is about the Seal pups.
Pay attention! ;)
As I mentioned, I didn't 'touch' the BioDiversity thread......This is the open 'Forum' or so I am led to believe and therefor brought up a 'thought' that affects us all.
I have seen you do it on occasion, and the word 'respect'. Interpretation!.
As I mentioned, I didn't 'touch' the BioDiversity thread......This is the open 'Forum' or so I am led to believe and therefor brought up a 'thought' that affects us all.
I have seen you do it on occasion, and the word 'respect'. Interpretation!.
It doesn't affect me, I don't eat fish.
fatmaggie9
06-Oct-11, 19:47
Stupid Title - they are only useless animals which we cant even eat - Stop comparing them with humans - Am really beginning to despair of all the 'goody goody' folk
with their selfishness & 'you are all wrong unless you believe in the c*** that I do' crowd. try & live in the real world not 'nerdy land' !!
Stupid Title - they are only useless animals which we cant even eat - Stop comparing them with humans - Am really beginning to despair of all the 'goody goody' folk
with their selfishness & 'you are all wrong unless you believe in the c*** that I do' crowd. try & live in the real world not 'nerdy land' !!
I'm sure if you started a thread about what is important to you, we would all be facinated.
Aaldtimer
07-Oct-11, 03:33
fm9..."Stupid Title - they are only useless animals which we cant even eat"...tell that to the Innuit![disgust]
fm9..."Stupid Title - they are only useless animals which we cant even eat"...tell that to the Innuit![disgust]
Well now, methinks the Native people get their food flown in..I am sure they still do the traditional thingy but not the way it was, but you are correct....
orkneycadian
07-Oct-11, 18:18
I don't know about Sandy but a certain person from a certain Island won't be happy until every non human specie is wiped out. Judging from previous threads :eek:
[lol] Nah, farmers can't do that - Nothing left to do!
I just smile at the hypocrisy of "yeuuch, a spider, kill it!" versus "aw, cute little seals, lets save them!"
It doesn't affect me, I don't eat fish.
I don't eat fish either.
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