View Full Version : Alien v Ape
porshiepoo
09-Oct-06, 19:38
Had quite an interesting conversation over the weekend with reference to human evolution.
A friend I was talking to had no doubts whatsoever that we evolved from apes and I have to say I am more inclined to go along with that theory after having done quite alot of research into human evolution and the machiavellian hypothesis for a psychology course.
However, there are still alot of questions unanswered on this subject and there are many other theories of mans appearance that go around.
I have even heard of the theory that we were planted here by aliens as an experiment, which when you think about it, isn't as hard to believe as you might think. There are many sightings of what people believe to be alien spaceships worldwide which surely must be something more than coincidence? Are these guys keeping tabs on us? Charting our progress or lack of it? Or are we simply the evolution of the great ape?????
What do you think? Apes, Aliens or something else??????
willowbankbear
09-Oct-06, 19:41
Im an alien, coz half the time I think Imn in another planet[lol]
porshiepoo
09-Oct-06, 19:43
And so you are!
The org is just about it's own religion I'm sure it won't be long before they declare this planet org!!!!!!:lol:
rockchick
09-Oct-06, 19:56
I've always found that bit in Genesis that states that sons of gods took daughters of men as wives interesting, and also the statement that "giants walked the earth in those days", and these would support your alien theory if taken literally (but that's another thread...) Who knows, maybe the space folks cloned Eve out of Adam's rib...
Im an alien, coz half the time I think Imn in another planet[lol]
But what if you are in "The Planet of the Apes"? ;)
willowbankbear
09-Oct-06, 22:37
But what if you are in "The Planet of the Apes"? ;)
Ye ever seen a bald monkey?:Razz
human evolution and the machiavellian hypothesis for a psychology course.
However, there are still alot of questions unanswered on this subject and there are many other theories of mans appearance that go around.
I have even heard of the theory that we were planted here by aliens as an experiment, which when you think about it, isn't as hard to believe as you might think. There are many sightings of what people believe to be alien spaceships worldwide which surely must be something more than coincidence? Are these guys keeping tabs on us? Charting our progress or lack of it? Or are we simply the evolution of the great ape?????
What do you think? Apes, Aliens or something else??????
I believe that whatever else may have happened, at the very least evolution happened. Theres physical evidence to collaberate the idea.
An idea that aliens may have planted us here is still only an idea with absolutely no other kind of evidence, apart from the fanciful ideas of musicians and housewifes and millions other normal people. ;)
Theres no harm in coming up with fanciful ideas but until these ideas are supported with some kind of scientific evidence they can only be taken half seriously in the quest for mankinds origins.
Evolution on the other hand can be confirmed.
Mind you, even then, some of you will still not believe it. I'm the same when it comes to UFOs. Although I have seen the evidence on a few occasions, I still dont believe it. Its the same with spooks.Ive seen them too but I dont believe its anywhere but in my own head.
Once I become objective about my own beliefs and visions, my relationship to apes becomes more apparent. :eek:
I'm an alien, I'm an illegal alien........ I'm a portuguezer in Wick (Imagine Sting here, and yes, I know my singing voice is not one of my charms).
Ofcourse it makes sense that humans were planted here by aliens when human DNA differs by 1% from chimpanzes. What are the chances of that happening?
brokencross
10-Oct-06, 07:57
The Horizon programme on BBC2 tonight at 2100 "Chimps are people too" investigates this 99.4% DNA match etc. http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programmes.shtml?day=today&service_id=4224&filename=20061010/20061010_2100_4224_9776_50
porshiepoo
10-Oct-06, 08:38
Ah but chimps are different to Great apes, which is where scientists have us believe we evolved from.
Gleeber, why do you not trust your own eyes???? You say you have seen evidence of aliens, spooks etc but yet you choose not to believe! Why??
I have one experience of what I believe to have been some kind of UFO and if my mums on here at any point she can verify what I believe I saw.
My father was bringing me home from work one night and I saw 3 strange lights in the sky in a very strange V formation. At first I thought just an aeroplane but it moved in the most mysterious way, certainly not like any plane I've ever seen. Then all of a sudden the lights literally went out (in the sky not in my head. lol). When I got home I told my mum straight away what I thought it was and a few days later she showed me a bit in the local paper that was saying that a few others had made a sighting of a UFO in that exact area at the same time. Spooky!
The theory of our evolution does make sense but I have trouble believing everything science claims it has discovered. Science is a work in progress and what it 'thinks' it knows now it may disprove later on.
Gleeber the alien theory may not be so fanciful. The theory of our Evolution from the great ape basically boils down to the fact that we resemble them in many ways genetically etc, if we'd had this kind of resemblence to a giraffe then we perhaps would have gone all out to prove our evolution to them instead.
Many people claim to have seen UFO's and aliens. Is it not arrogant of man to think we are alone in the universe? Surely there must be other life forms in such a great expanse? And IF there is and they do manage to visit us imagine how much more advanced than us they must be!
Gleeber, why do you not trust your own eyes???? You say you have seen evidence of aliens, spooks etc but yet you choose not to believe! Why??
Gleeber the alien theory may not be so fanciful. The theory of our Evolution from the great ape basically boils down to the fact that we resemble them in many ways genetically etc, if we'd had this kind of resemblence to a giraffe then we perhaps would have gone all out to prove our evolution to them instead.
Many people claim to have seen UFO's and aliens. Is it not arrogant of man to think we are alone in the universe? Surely there must be other life forms in such a great expanse? And IF there is and they do manage to visit us imagine how much more advanced than us they must be!
It's not a case of not trusting my own eyes, it's more a case of unravelling the interpretation my brain puts on something it doesnt understand. I spoke to a guy recently who has been in hospital for a couple of months after a serious car crash. He had been taking lots of morphine for the pain. On one occasion he had an out of body experience where he was looking down on his body and the rest of the room from the ceiling. No one else saw him hanging to the ceiling though.:eek:
What about dreams? Are we like the prophets of old and see dreams as some parallel reality?
I dont think we can be objective about our outer world until we are able to become objective about our inner world.
There is no reason to believe that aliens exist anywhere else in the universe. Evolution suggests life on earth was just a pure fluke. Theres no reason to debunk the idea of alien life but neither is there any evidence that it exists.
As for your Giraffe analogy. We share many peculiarities with giraffes and I am sure many genes. We share about 60% of genes with bananas. Evolution relates everything to everything else. I am no expert but once I start to question my own perceptions of life, other peoples perceptions become more clear.
Live long and prosper!;)
As Rockchick says, maybe we have been cloned. If there is life elsewhere in the Universe it is possible that they are further along the road than us and where we are just begining to clone life now, they have been doing so for a long time.
As someone said in a previous post, the scientists are seeing that some of our theories are now being proved wrong so who knows.....
So many theories, so many hypotheses and no facts.
Human beings left the planet many aeons ago and when they returned, the population of Earth had mutated into great apes. The space travelling humans were a bit more advanced than we are and were able to regress the apes back into humans again. They made us in their own image but without the godlike powers that they had developed. We are the descendants of this genetic manipulation. The Great Ape if far more advanced than we are. They fight only in defence, are vegetarians and do not destroy their invironment.
We were left to our own devices when the Gods(advanced humans) left for space again. There are, IMO, many populated planets in the universe but they are populated with the descendants of the original space travelling humans, not aliens as such. The accident/creation/evolution of homo sapiens took place on this planet.
I do not say that I believe the above scenario but, to me, it is as believable as all the other stories one hears and reads.[evil]
So many theories, so many hypotheses and no facts.
One of the srtong points of a good scientific theory is evidence. A scientific theory may start of as fanciful an idea as Glebers Planet of the great apes scenario, but then the scientist will start gathering evidence to support his original idea. Glebers theory lacks any scientific evidence whatsoever and he is to be applauded for not believing his own ideas.;)
For goodness sake it doesnt take a genuis to recognise the similarities between different species of animals on our planet. The human animal developed consciousness and its this trait that seperates him from our cousins in the animal world. Most animals have developed some trait peculiar to their own species. Birds can fly, fish breathe in water, bats have sonar, pigeons have a homing device. Humans developed language and culture.
Unfortunately superstition still reigns supreme on planet Zonk. However, science is exposing more truths about ourselves and the universe every day. Karma, reincarnation, ghosts, demons, angels and aliens. All of them are dangers to the mental health of the human animal. Theres plenty evidence available to support that theory.
Another thing about the human animal is his longing to be something he isnt. A hamster is too busy being a hamster to worry about tomorrow. Elephants dont build nests in trees. They know what being an elephant means. Leave it to the human animal to come up with something so ridiculous that he cant tell his art from his elbow. St Paul and muhamed, Billy graham and the Pope, fortune tellers and psychics, tea leaf readers and astrologers. These guys fantasies have imprisoned the human animal no more or no less than mankinds zoos have imprisoned the great apes.
Science is the new religion and evidence the holy book.
A truly educated man never believes anything with certainty because he knows that further learning might challenge any, or all, of his beliefs.
mostlyharmless
10-Oct-06, 23:49
So are you saying that truth is perception?
And if so if I perceive a possibility does it rely on evidence for its basis or does it not need evidence until the possibility of its truth?
Or in clearer terms is the truth something we perceive but is beyond our capacity to understand or produce evidence for.
tiggertoo
11-Oct-06, 00:30
we probably evolved from apes and we are still evolving today and hundreds of years from now we could be different to survive climate change, infact i reckon man will live on mars in the future once this planet dies out its mans instinct to survive by all means even if we have to move to another planet and evolve into alien like humans to survive on that planet, that is probably why people want to find out if there is sources of life on mars or im smoking to much canibis:lol:
I’m with you on this one Gleeber, science is fact. How far forward would we be if Darwin wasn’t a scientist?
“Unfortunately superstition still reigns supreme on planet Zonk”
I couldn’t agree with you more, but we are in still in the minority. There will always be religion unless someone disproves it, which is impossible as the existence of God can only be proved.
Back to the main question, the evidence between humans and apes are overwhelming.
Humans are not exempt from the evolutionary cycle and we are still evolving.
Here is a thought. It has been proved that there is no life in our solar system apart from Earth. Our next planetary system is 4 light years away (that’s 300,000 km per second times 4 years) and the chances of life on that solar system are ultra thin at the most. So, is there a better chance statistically that humans evolve and science gets so advanced that the image that we are given by alleged witness’s of “aliens” is of humans of the future travelling back in time?
BTW, I’m only joking don’t lock me up just yet. But, if you get the right salesman he could sell it no bother. There is no hard proof of aliens, (don’t want to say god as it would upset this thread) but there is proof that humans evolved from apes.
rockchick
11-Oct-06, 05:45
Here is a thought. It has been proved that there is no life in our solar system apart from Earth.
There is no evidence for life as we know it in the solar system - this is not proof tho; for all we know gaseous angel-type creatures may be floating around in/on Jupiter or Saturn!
So are you saying that truth is perception?
And if so if I perceive a possibility does it rely on evidence for its basis or does it not need evidence until the possibility of its truth?
Or in clearer terms is the truth something we perceive but is beyond our capacity to understand or produce evidence for.
If your asking me I'm not saying truth is perception. On the contrary. Gleber percieves a morally deficient ethic amongst meateaters. He also has set a criteria for judging who may be truly educated. Those are subjective prejudices formed from psychological dynamics and I dont share those opinions with him. Mind you if anyone was to suggest a theory of vegetarianism along with a theory of what may make someone truly educated, science would be all ears to see the evidence for such a theory. Although scientific truths are objective the subjectivness of the scientist can never be removed from the equation.
Its important that science stands up for its truths and continues to discuss its weaknesses. Scientific truths will always change but until the time comes when science discovers God it would be prudent to use the knowledge gained from scientific evidence to understand our - selves and the universe.
There are some wonderful things have been discovered about our universe.
Its an amazing place and I can understand the so-called superstitious angle some people put onto their lives, but there is no proof for any of it.
Give science a go!
I’m with you on this one Gleeber, science is fact. How far forward would we be if Darwin wasn’t a scientist?
but there is proof that humans evolved from apes.
Ac of course Darwin was right and we did evolve see attached, which one are you Ac? the middle one I think :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Og8VZLXC_w
If an all-encompassing God exists then surely the scientists and their discoveries/theories are all part of God's plan.
It is better to keep an open enquiring mind than sit back and leave it all to a God who may or may not exist....
Gleber2 might have a point here --- found this
Origin of Man
Gonna tell you a story about the Origin of Man,
about Darwin and aliens and God’s master plan.
I'm gonna tell you all how it began.
I’m gonna tell you all about the Origin of Man.
In the beginning there was Adam & Eve,
in the Garden of Eden with the birds and the bees.
Everything was fine, everything was at peace,
’til Eve took the apple from God's own tree.
Eve said to the Lord, "The Serpent made me do it!"
The Lord said to Eve, "Girl you just blew it!
I cast you out into the land, and
you shall be the Origin Of Man."
Don't care what you say,
I don't give a damn,
I got my own opinion on the Origin of Man.
Don't care what you say,
I don't give a damn,
’cause I know the truth about the Origin of Man.
Along came Darwin with his Theory of Man,
and tried to tell us all how he thought it began.
We descended from apes, we crawled out of the slime,
over millions of years we evolved over time.
But in the middle of it all is the missing link,
to tie it all together Darwin didn't think.
He didn't know the truth, he didn't know the plan,
he didn't quite know about the Origin Of Man.
Don't care what you say,
I don't give a damn,
I got my own opinion on the Origin of Man.
Don't care what you say,
I don't give a damn,
’cause I know the truth about the Origin of Man.
I say we came from outer space.
We were put here by an alien race,
and left to grow upon the land.
Now that’s the truth about the Origin of Man!
mostlyharmless
11-Oct-06, 12:47
'scientfic truth always changes?' This seems a contradiction in terms.
Surely truth is eternal and unchanging?
Truth is surely not whatever we have the best evidence for? Is it perception then depending on the intelligence or origin of an individual.
Or is it how closed minded and fearful we are?
Our perception of reality may change our understanding of truth forever.
Does the battlefield of evolution properly explain the altruism of some animals such as Greyfriars Bobby?
All things in the evolution world should be towards survival of the fittest or indeed the preservation of the genes shouldn't they?
BMcGillivray
11-Oct-06, 13:06
science has changed what the "facts" are many times, coming up with new evidence that show old "facts" to have been incorrect... and theres still a lot scientists disagree about... theres a lot of theoreticals and guesswork going on... scientists once thought the world was flat, until they learned otherwise... and theres still a lot out there to learn.
People can hold current science as being fact all they want, they can claim evidence is there to prove what they say, but new evidence could be discovered at any time, that could show what scientists currently believe to be incorrect... so even with science, you cant know the truth, in that sense, its no different from religion.
science has changed what the "facts" are many times, coming up with new evidence that show old "facts" to have been incorrect... and theres still a lot scientists disagree about... theres a lot of theoreticals and guesswork going on... scientists once thought the world was flat, until they learned otherwise... and theres still a lot out there to learn.
People can hold current science as being fact all they want, they can claim evidence is there to prove what they say, but new evidence could be discovered at any time, that could show what scientists currently believe to be incorrect... so even with science, you cant know the truth, in that sense, its no different from religion.
Here here!!!!
No facts only beliefs which change with changing evidence.
Gleeber, I became a vegetarian because evidence suggested a better standard of health as a vegetarian and I put it to the test and found this to be right as my health improved considerably. I also noticed a distinct change in my mental state and began to view the moral issue of meat eating totally differently inso far I became more aware of the wanton cruelty inherent in our methods of creating the meat that we eat. I then became vegan and again I noticed the benefits both physically and mentally. I am not so concerned with the fate of the animals as I am with the fate of the meat consumers who are incurring kharmic debt with every bite. You don't know what it is like to breathe fresh air until you take your head out of the sand and if you never take your head out of the sand you will never see the real truths whatever they maybe for you and you will refuse to accept the existance of freh air because you have never tasted it. However much we can fool ourselves with wise words and rhetoric, the truth remains unchanged whether we believe it or not.
My standard of education quote was not mine but says what I believe from a common sense view point. If one's beliefs do not change when the basis for them is proved wrong then one is not only uneducated, one is down right stupid.
BTW way I started training as a scientist when I left school but saw the light early. I've tried science have you tried the alternatives?
My understanding is that apes and humans have a common ancestor. So we are descended, if you like, from ape-like creatures. But even more awsome is to think that every life form on the planet began with bacteria, or bacteria like creatures. The original form of life on the planet is called by geneticists the LCA which stands for Last Common Ancestor. Imagine a form of life at bacterial level. It used to be thought that life originated in the primordial sludge at the bottom of some primeval ocean. But recently bacteria have started turning up in volcano vents. Examining the genetics of these bacteria - scientists now believe that there was en even earlier candidate for LCA and may have originated on land.
For those of you who are atheists you are not off the hook Not by a long shot. Because if all of life can be traced back to this piece of - what? - cosmic sperm perhaps - then God is back in the picture, big time.
porshiepoo
11-Oct-06, 19:24
I go along with the ape theory at the moment but consider myself open minded as to it's reliability.
All these theories are determined by man, who is flawed itself.
A known fact today may be disproved tomorrow so to me it's only sensible to bear in mind that this evolution theory is based on facts and abilities we have today at this point in time.
Just as we once 'knew' the earth was flat and that we were the centre of the universe! Theories are constantly evolving and i have no doubt that sometime in the future we'll look back and think how ridiculous it was that we actually believed we evolved from great apes. It's all we have at the moment but the futures open to further discoveries and theories.
Humans and therefore, I would assume, Chimpanzees share 60% of our DNA with Bananas.
Does that mean that we are all decended from Bananas even further back in time?
Humans and therefore, I would assume, Chimpanzees share 60% of our DNA with Bananas.
Does that mean that we are all decended from Bananas even further back in time?
LOL.... may I point out that the languge used is completely wrong and has been throughout the thread. We do not descent from apes, but descend from a common ancestor that was neither ape nor human. So, we don't descend from banas, but from a distant common relative that was neither banana nor human.... however, some humans are more banana than anything! ;)
Does that mean that we are all decended from Bananas even further back in time?
I see now why football fans had inflatable bananas back in the 1980s, they were being racially abusive to any player that still had a banana skin!:lol: I'm glad the game doesn't tolerate such behavior anymore.
Cedric Farthsbottom III
11-Oct-06, 20:35
I'm still a monkey....obsessed wi bananas...just hivnae evolved yet!!:lol: :lol:
percy toboggan
11-Oct-06, 20:39
I see now why football fans had inflatable bananas back in the 1980s, they were being racially abusive to any player that still had a banana skin! I'm glad the game doesn't tolerate such behavior anymore.
My own once beloved Manchester City F.C. were the first to have supporters who embraced the inflatable banana. I had weaned myself off slavish devotion to football by then and viewed the trend with a little dismay, and some baffled amusement. In my day we had banners. ('Man.City - Pride of the North' was my rather splendid creation) okay I know some of you will berate me for having the temerity to think we're in the north!
An interesting topic this . Last night two England players complained their German opponents had called them 'monkeys'. It wouldn't worry me - how about you? I might respond with a similarly childish retort but more likely content myself counting my wages. If someone had likened me to banana though I may have considered it something of an accurately contrived compliment. Who knows?:eek: :lol:
If someone had likened me to banana though I may have considered it something of an accurately contrived compliment. Who knows?:eek: :lol:
Just think, it might just be a Freudian slip on your banana skin?
Had quite an interesting conversation over the weekend with reference to human evolution.
A friend I was talking to had no doubts whatsoever that we evolved from apes and I have to say I am more inclined to go along with that theory after having done quite alot of research into human evolution and the machiavellian hypothesis for a psychology course.
However, there are still alot of questions unanswered on this subject and there are many other theories of mans appearance that go around.
I have even heard of the theory that we were planted here by aliens as an experiment, which when you think about it, isn't as hard to believe as you might think. There are many sightings of what people believe to be alien spaceships worldwide which surely must be something more than coincidence? Are these guys keeping tabs on us? Charting our progress or lack of it? Or are we simply the evolution of the great ape?????
What do you think? Apes, Aliens or something else??????I think your friend is right and most humans evolved from a common ape-like ancestor but there's a growing feeling that some of us have a little bit more which maybe is alien. Went to see a woman yesterday who lives on the back road between Helensburgh and Rhu who's an expert in DNA and its origins. She had a sample of mine analysed in my pal's hubby's lab at the Beatson in Glasgow. It seems a fraction of my DNA is similar to that found in the debris of the tail of a comet that passed by Earth 20 years ago. It's a common occurrence in witches' DNA according to her group. I'm happy because I was beginning to feel I was forcing the witch thing upon myself but now I find that it's there naturally after all. I love evolution but I love extraterrestrial
I'm dead chuffed. :)
porshiepoo
14-Oct-06, 17:17
I think your friend is right and most humans evolved from a common ape-like ancestor but there's a growing feeling that some of us have a little bit more which maybe is alien. Went to see a woman yesterday who lives on the back road between Helensburgh and Rhu who's an expert in DNA and its origins. She had a sample of mine analysed in my pal's hubby's lab at the Beatson in Glasgow. It seems a fraction of my DNA is similar to that found in the debris of the tail of a comet that passed by Earth 20 years ago. It's a common occurrence in witches' DNA according to her group. I'm happy because I was beginning to feel I was forcing the witch thing upon myself but now I find that it's there naturally after all. I love evolution but I love extraterrestrial
I'm dead chuffed. :)
O....M....G, you've seriously lost the plot Crayola! lol
Maybe that comet was a well disguised UFO? And maybe that UFO carried your true relatives that you know nothing of??????? lol.
science has changed what the "facts" are many times, coming up with new evidence that show old "facts" to have been incorrect... .
Science has changed no facts at all. Facts are facts. Our perception, as humans and scientists, of those facts are what have changed. Science has had different explanations for the same thing over time, because of the new and different ways we have of percieving, observing, measuring and processing the data generated due to technological advances.
O....M....G, you've seriously lost the plot Crayola! lol
Maybe that comet was a well disguised UFO? And maybe that UFO carried your true relatives that you know nothing of??????? lol.Maybe lol.
Maybe all this talk of alien DNA is fanciful but it's worthy of consideration. If Sir Fred Hoyle thought life came from comets why shouldn't I?
BMcGillivray
16-Oct-06, 13:55
Science has changed no facts at all. Facts are facts. Our perception, as humans and scientists, of those facts are what have changed. Science has had different explanations for the same thing over time, because of the new and different ways we have of percieving, observing, measuring and processing the data generated due to technological advances.
And in the future, as technology advances even further, the perceptions of Scientists around the world are just as likely to change again.
You say that facts are facts, but yet these facts can no longer be facts if the scientists decide to change their mind because they've found something that makes more sense?... The only time a fact can stop being a fact, is if things physically change to stop it being true, not because peoples perceptions change, if it stops being a fact because people change their mind, then it was never a fact to begin with.
An example, if a scientist walks across sand that he knows for a "fact" is solid enough to walk across, then realizes his feet are actually sinking into quicksand, then the "fact" that he thought he knew was not fact at all, he was incorrect.
If however, a scientist walks across sand that he knows for a "fact" is solid enough to walk across, then a sudden cascade of water pours down making it no longer solid, resulting in the scientists feet sinking into it, then what he believed before was indeed a fact... its just that events occured to make that fact no longer apply.
You say that facts are facts, but yet these facts can no longer be facts if the scientists decide to change their mind because they've found something that makes more sense?... The only time a fact can stop being a fact, is if things physically change to stop it being true, not because peoples perceptions change, if it stops being a fact because people change their mind, then it was never a fact to begin with.
For centuries, millions of people believed that the world was flat. Nothing was going to change that fact, it was an unchangeable truth. Even today, there are many People (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org) who still believe it to be true despite the best efforts of Magellan and Grigarin.:lol:
BMcGillivray
16-Oct-06, 16:46
Even today, there are many People (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org) who still believe it to be true despite the best efforts of Magellan and Grigarin.:lol:
Oh wow.. just wow :eek: ... ok.. i just looked in the "other alternative science" section... and i nearly died looking at some of the topic titles... i guess for every possible belief there could possibly be, there will be at least one person that honestly believes it.
The desire to register there is too great, and too futile... ill just walk away and pretend i never saw it... everyone has their beliefs... everyone has their beliefs... *repeats*
. everyone has their beliefs... everyone has their beliefs...
But some believe more than others.:D
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