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Rheghead
08-Oct-06, 18:20
Ok. you are driving north home to Caithness and you are approaching Tore roundabout (Black isle). The sign that shows the exit to Wick shows a roundabout but the angle of the exit is greater than 120° but not quite 180° to the right therefore(almost straight on), isn't it protocol to stay in the left lane on approach and keep in lane and indicate left only as you leave the roundabout? So many times I have seen drivers approach in the right-hand lane and indicate right then indicate left as they leave the roundabout to go north.

Which is right? It is a long time since I took my test but I am sure that if the turn off on the sign indicates a more or less straight-on route then you should keep to the left lane unless there is very little traffic and you can approach in the right lane but not indicate right.:confused

MadPict
08-Oct-06, 18:25
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/17.htm#160

When taking any intermediate exit

* select the appropriate lane on approach to and on the roundabout, signalling as necessary
* stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
* signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.

So using lane 2 to proceed straight ahead is permissable...

changilass
08-Oct-06, 18:29
Going by the diagram on the link you posted it shows you should be in the left hand lane

Rheghead
08-Oct-06, 18:34
Thanks Madpict, so by the advice given, one should not indicate right if one is going to Wick because the exit north is not the last exit from the roundabout? Many do indicate right here.:confused

EDIT

Even the pic is confusing because the pink car is indicating right but it is not taking the last exit.

MadPict
08-Oct-06, 18:36
No - it states -
When taking any intermediate exit

* select the appropriate lane on approach to and on the roundabout, signalling as necessary
* stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
* signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.

So for example - the traffic in lane 1 (left hand lane) is all turning left, you are allowed to use lane 2 to approach the roundabout and as you are not turning left OR right you do not need to indicate UNTIL you have passed the 1st exit (to the left) then you indicate left to show that you are leaving the roundabout.

Obviously if you are the only vehicle using the roundabout you would use lane 1 and follow the course indicated in the diagram. But it does state "select the appropriate lane on approach to and on the roundabout" when using any intermediate exits.

Sandra
08-Oct-06, 18:43
I have always approached the roundabout in the right hand lane, and only indicate after passing the first left exit.

MadPict
08-Oct-06, 18:48
Thanks Madpict, so by the advice given, one should not indicate right if one is going to Wick because the exit north is not the last exit from the roundabout? Many do indicate right here.:confused

I am trying to remember the layout of this roundabout but using the clock face to simplify matters if you are approaching from 6 o'clock and there is an exit at 9 o'clock, 2 o'clock and 4 o'clock and you are exiting at the 2 o'clock exit, you do get people think that the should indicate right as they are going round the roundabout.
It can cause confusion for someone joining from the 9 o'clock junction wishing to take the 2 o'clock exit pulling out because they see a car with the right indicator on and they think they are going off at 4 o'clock, then get all annoyed because they get a blast of horn as they both try to go for the same exit.
But it also causes problems if you are indicating left as you approach and negotiate the roundabout - the car joining from 9 o'clock thinks you are leaving at the first exit so the pullout in front of you....

jacktar
08-Oct-06, 19:00
if memory serves me right,the road markings tell you to stay in the right hand lane if going north and to stay in the left hand lane if turning off left.

Rheghead
08-Oct-06, 19:12
If you are coming from the south, the exits are 8°clock, 10°clock, 1°clock and 4°clock. There are 2 lanes on the approach and one lane on the exit which leaves for Wick. So in theory, there is a potential conflict if two drivers are in lanes 1 and 2 and they want to exit at the same time! I think I have been there before...

I can't remember any road markings to indicate which lane to take on the approach, but the left hand land does extend round to the exit north.

emszxr
08-Oct-06, 19:30
To the last reply, the left hand lane 'extends' all the way round the roundabout.

The exit to the north is more than half way round the roundabout when coming from Inverness, regardless of the number of exits prior to that you should be in the right hand lane on approach and be indicating right until just before the last exit prior to your intended junction when you should change your signal to take the left turn off the roundabout.

Just for info, my husband took a police driving course some years ago and on that course the same subject regarding the Tore roundabout came up, the police instructor told them that you should be in the right hand lane when approaching the roundabout from the south if you were intending to take the A9 north or turn right to Tore.

footie chick
08-Oct-06, 19:33
I just go in the middle and hope for the best :eek: lol

MadPict
08-Oct-06, 19:45
emszxr,
That approach is technically correct but bear in mind that not every driver has the advantage of any form of advanced training and also consider that the A9 goes from dual to single carriageway to the north of this roundabout. Also it appears that there are TWO exits prior to the A9 north one. The first is the A832 and the second is the A835.

As there are two exits prior to the A9(N) I would probably make use of lane 2, remaining in lane 2 until passing the 2nd exit then indicate left and move to lane 1 to exit the roundabout. IF the A9(N) was dual after this roundabout you could stay in lane 2 on exiting.

Google Map (http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=57.540672,-4.335802&spn=0.004129,0.008583&om=1)

Rheghead
08-Oct-06, 19:51
The exit to the north is more than half way round the roundabout when coming from Inverness, regardless of the number of exits prior to that you should be in the right hand lane on approach and be indicating right until just before the last exit prior to your intended junction when you should change your signal to take the left turn off the roundabout.Just for info, my husband took a police driving course some years ago and on that course the same subject regarding the Tore roundabout came up, the police instructor told them that you should be in the right hand lane when approaching the roundabout from the south if you were intending to take the A9 north or turn right to Tore.

But as the Highway code points out, that is not strictly the correct procedure unless you were taking the last exit or you were doing a u-turn.:confused

It is very confusing, I guess there may not be a hard rule but just to keep one's wits about yerself and 'honk' where necessary.[smirk]

saxovtr
08-Oct-06, 19:52
are you serious?people having a go because of me doing 15mph over the limit to over take and you dont even know the highway code,that cud cause a serious accident!!!

sweetpea
09-Oct-06, 02:11
I guess I do it all wrong. I go into the right lane appraoahing the roundabout cause I'm sure it says north on the road, then I turn off.

The Big Fish
09-Oct-06, 03:37
On the approach to the roundabout heading to Wick you are instructed to take the right hand lane prior to reaching the roundabout also the sign shows the exit as past 12 o'clock , often at roundabouts the sign will show an exit as after 12 but in reality it is before 12 , the reason for this is to guide the driver into the desired lane for traffic management the rule being you obey the sign not what you believe in your in built natural ability to predict angles..

It is immaterial how many junctions are before or after your turning. The simple rule is if you are travelling in a straight line south to north of from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock , unless directed otherwise by prior notice (signs on the roadside or marked on the roadway) you are at liberty to select either lane. If your exit is left of 12 you take the left lane if your exit is after 12 you take the right lane.

If you are my good lady you buy a bright car and extend an apologetic hand as you drive quickly across the middle smiling a "please forgive me as I know no better!" glance at everyone............:Razz

sweetpea
09-Oct-06, 04:00
What is the correct lane then, never mind the technical stuff?:D

The Big Fish
09-Oct-06, 04:25
The right lane like all the signs say

Muir of Ord and Dingwall - left
Wick and Tore - Right

sweetpea
09-Oct-06, 04:27
Thanks Big Fish! I was doubting my own driving for a minute;)

mareng
09-Oct-06, 08:12
I think it is allowable to use the right hand entry lane when the intention is to exit for Wick. It is also allowable to use the left hand entry lane for this.

The main thing to appreciate, is that in any conflict - the driver in the right hand lane (if crossing the left hand lane to exit) is responsible.

Therefore, the driver in the right hand lane must be far more vigilant.

(I use the right hand lane by preference)

kenimac1
09-Oct-06, 09:04
I live quite near this roundabout and the normal local protocol is drivers taking the North exit 3rd (Wick) or the Munlochy exit (4th) take the RH lane. Drivers heading for Muir of ord (1st exit) or West (2nd exit) take the LH lane.
I don't recall if there are any signs to indicate this.

mareng
09-Oct-06, 09:09
are you serious?people having a go because of me doing 15mph over the limit to over take and you dont even know the highway code,that cud cause a serious accident!!!


Quite right - it cud.

Doug Country
09-Oct-06, 12:44
I go in the right hand lane as directed going North.

However, I use the right hand lane going south too!

jaykay
09-Oct-06, 12:53
Ok. you are driving north home to Caithness and you are approaching Tore roundabout (Black isle). The sign that shows the exit to Wick shows a roundabout but the angle of the exit is greater than 120° but not quite 180° to the right therefore(almost straight on), isn't it protocol to stay in the left lane on approach and keep in lane and indicate left only as you leave the roundabout? So many times I have seen drivers approach in the right-hand lane and indicate right then indicate left as they leave the roundabout to go north.

Which is right? It is a long time since I took my test but I am sure that if the turn off on the sign indicates a more or less straight-on route then you should keep to the left lane unless there is very little traffic and you can approach in the right lane but not indicate right.:confused

You should be in the LEFT lane!!

MadPict
09-Oct-06, 15:19
You should be in the LEFT lane!!

ONLY if you are going to go to Muir of Ord or Dingwall - apparently the signs indicate the lane. Also if the lane markings indicate it you should be in the correct lane - so if there are road markings showing a 'left arrow' in the left lane that means you can only turn left. If it is a combined left/straight ahead arrow then you have a choice.


The right lane like all the signs say

Muir of Ord and Dingwall - left
Wick and Tore - Right
Reply With Quote

See what you've started Rheghead.... :D

jaykay
09-Oct-06, 15:56
[quote=MadPict;144388]ONLY if you are going to go to Muir of Ord or Dingwall - apparently the signs indicate the lane. Also if the lane markings indicate it you should be in the correct lane - so if there are road markings showing a 'left arrow' in the left lane that means you can only turn left. If it is a combined left/straight ahead arrow then you have a choice.

You are 100% correct MadPict! If you are headed to Wick you shuld be in the RIGHT lane.

j4bberw0ck
09-Oct-06, 16:04
Always the right lane. To go that many exits round the roundabout in the left lane exposes you to too many risks of people cutting across you to exit to Muir of Ord and Dingwall. My ha'porth, anyway.

Rheghead
09-Oct-06, 16:09
But the thing is not to indicate right because it is not the last exit, no?

bremkins
09-Oct-06, 17:01
i passed my motorbike test about 2 years ago in inverness and i did the car one about 6 months ago in inverness also. both instructors told me that any exit past the 12 o'clock position is classed as turning right so you should approach in the right hand lane and indicate right initially. i passed both tests first time in the 'metropolis' of inverness so the advice must be correct.

northener
09-Oct-06, 17:14
Big Fish

Where are the lane allocation signs you are on about and how long have they been there?

Must be old age as i cannot recall them.

northener
09-Oct-06, 17:48
I'll redirect my question to everyone - where are the signs and lane markings?

Don't say at the side of the road and on it!

jean
09-Oct-06, 17:59
my daughter took her test in inverness as did I, you have to indicate right and then after the dingwall exit left . I lived in balck isle for years and all the locals drive like this. its a bad roundabout and notorious for accidents.

Rheghead
09-Oct-06, 18:41
I'll redirect my question to everyone - where are the signs and lane markings?

Don't say at the side of the road and on it!

I can't recall there being any at Tore, but there are some at kessock may be that's where folks are getting mixed up with.


you have to indicate right and then after the dingwall exit left . I lived in black isle for years and all the locals drive like this. its a bad roundabout and notorious for accidents.

If the locals are not doing what they should be doing then could that be a reason for why it is an accident blackspot? just a thought

jean
09-Oct-06, 19:01
very few locals are in accidents here as we know what a mess other drivers make of going round it ..overtaking after it .. the list goes on. plus theres the fact that the dual carrigeway stops and some people get a bit confused.
put yourself in the position of same roundabout heading south if you were turning off at the 3rd exit ( as the A9 is going north) youd indicate right wouldnt you. its past 12.00 . simple really. its the same no matter which direction you are going in if your exit is past 12.00 indicate right.

MadPict
09-Oct-06, 19:20
Rheghead,
Just stick your hazards on - then everyone will steer clear....

Cazaa
09-Oct-06, 19:34
There are signs/markings going North before the Kessock Bridge. You have to be in the right lane here for going North (straight ahead). So I stay in the right hand lane at Tore. Never done me any harm (in fact - didn't a lorry drive straight through the roundabout last year?)

northener
09-Oct-06, 19:40
Hmmm...

The reason I ask about the signs is because the very first time I drove North it threw me!

Since then I've never looked for any signs as I know which exit I need but I'm pretty dam' sure Reghead is right about the confusion over the roundabouts. If I'm wrong then fine.

The problem arises because anyone who is unfamiliar with the road will expect the A9 North of the roundabout to be a continuation of the dual cabbageway, so therefore it would not matter which lane you approach in - bearing in mind I am of the opinion that there is no positive direction on lanes given on approach. Result - a Highland version of the Wacky Races.

Local knowledge is only any good if you are a local with the knowledge!

Regarding the rights and wrongs of approach and positioning/signalling bear in mind the Highway Code is a general guide. In itself it does not constitute law, it merely highlights various aspects of the Road Traffic Act and other laws regarding the road and its users.

It would be worth adding the words generally speaking when discussing the application of the Highway Code to a particular junction. The Highway Code cannot cover every situation.

In its simplest form the approach in the right hand lane with right indicator/then left indicator would be correct for anyone who understands that the road narrows into one lane.

Bear in mind there is no exit at 12 o' clock as is the case on the majority of roundabouts. The two previous exits are definitely pre-12 o' clock so therefore the left hand lane is correct for these, but the A9 North could be constituted as a grey area as it is so close to 12 o' clock.

It would not be incorrect (but not the best choice) for someone who expected the road to continue in two lanes to continue in the left lane giving a right (or no) indicator then left indicator - bearing in mind the apparent dearth of information on approach. Not ideal as you stand being cut up by people with local knowledge in the right hand lane!

Can anyone give us a definite location for these road markings and signs on approach?

BTW if its busy I use the right hand lane and prepare to give way to any traffic on my left when exiting. If theres no-one there I use the left lane!

Saxo01
09-Oct-06, 19:41
I never no where im going or what lane i should be in so i slow down before the roondaboot then gas it 2 get clear of whos behind me, Gives me a bit of breathing space, Made it to Glasgow & back a few months back wi only one toot on a horn from a chicky in a gti

MadPict
09-Oct-06, 20:47
Regarding the rights and wrongs of approach and positioning/signalling bear in mind the Highway Code is a general guide. In itself it does not constitute law, it merely highlights various aspects of the Road Traffic Act and other laws regarding the road and its users.



Double "Hmmm"...


Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison.

Also....

Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, it itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under Traffic Acts to establish liability.

The Big Fish
10-Oct-06, 02:22
Northerner ..sorry for the delay but I had to work. Simply you are instructed to take the right lane by virtue of the sign showing you that the exit is clearly past 12 o clock, I cannot recall any other signs at this time other than that simple rule that everyone should know. Example for safety is this....2 cars approach heading north side by side if the one in the left lane turns to either Muir of Ord or Dingwall and the one in the right lane turns to either Wick or Tore there cannot possibly be a collision , hence why this is the rule as indicated by the markings on the sign showing the exits on the round about.LEFT OF CENTRE GO LEFT RIGHT OF CENTRE GO RIGHT....OOPS AM i SHOUTING NOW?.........take the train its slower but no roundabouts.[evil]

calish6
10-Oct-06, 09:43
Common sense dictates that you take the right hand lane.
The amount of times while travelling around the country I have come across
some real idiots at round-abouts and the worst are the ones who sit in the
left hand lane for more than 1 exit. They are the ones who block the exits for the drivers that are in the right hand lane.
You are driving on the inside of the roundabout, there is a car next to you on the outside - you expect that car to pull off at the next exit therefore freeing up the outside lane and making it safe for you to pull over and exit.
Wait a minute, that car has not taken that exit, your exit is next, you indicate but that other car is in your way and bang, you have to slam on the brakes and possibly causing an accident because of the cars behind you.

emszxr
10-Oct-06, 10:02
I never no where im going or what lane i should be in so i slow down before the roondaboot then gas it 2 get clear of whos behind me, Gives me a bit of breathing space, Made it to Glasgow & back a few months back wi only one toot on a horn from a chicky in a gti


may be some advanced driving wouldn't go a miss then

northener
10-Oct-06, 10:12
Mad Pict,

You are of course correct regarding the Highway Code, so am I!

Quote:
"Many of the rules are legal requirements, if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence"

In other words the Highway Code relates to various Acts but in itself is not a
legal document.

Quote:
Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, it itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under Traffic Acts to establish liability

"May be used". In other words it depends on what has occurred and where. There will always be grey areas in certain situations and this is where discretion comes in.


Big Fish:

Please read my post again!

"In its simplest form the approach in the right hand lane with right indicator/then left indicator would be correct for anyone who understands that the road narrows into one lane."

I'm in agreement with you regarding use of the right hand lane.

BUT

I said to approach in the left hand lane - although not ideal - wouldn't be incorrect to someone who is used to approaching roundabouts on dual cabbageways.

My point regarding approaching in the left hand lane is that to anyone who does not appreciate it goes down to one lane could easily assume that the road continues in two lanes.
I can think of lots of examples down South where there is a turn off just after 12 o'clock that would still be correct to approach in the left hand lane.


Regarding approaching a roundabout, the Highway Code does not say "right hand lane and right indicator for after 12 o'clock".
This is a general assumption that is taught to drivers but doesn't cover every junction.

What it actually says is this:

Rule 162


"When taking any intermediate exit select an appropriate lane....signalling as necessary"

"When taking the last exit or going full circle (which we are not) signal right and approach in the right hand lane"

So therefore the Highway Code does not tell us definitely to use the right hand lane at Tore roundabout or, even, which is the correct lane! It tells us to use our judgement regarding selection (the ultimate cop out).

Neither is absolutely right or wrong, thats why I made the point of saying I use both lanes!.


I've been asked this question a countless number of times.

The real problem is the lack of clear lane allocation on approach - we cannot select the correct lane in this instance if we don't know the road!


Think about this:

You're heading North and you don't know the road, its mega-busy in both lanes.

You are in the left hand lane and see the sign for Tore roundabout. There are no lane allocation signs telling you which lane to use.

You are boxed in and cannot get into the right hand lane even if you wanted to (remember, you don't know the road and are, quite reasonably expecting to go onto a dual cabbageway after the roundabout).

You would have to proceed with caution and attempt to make your intentions clear. If upon entering the roundabout you realised that to continue would create a serious hazard you should abort, take the previous exit and double back on yourself. Otherwise you could carry on and be prepared to give way to any traffic on your right that wishes to take the same exit as you.

If you're in the right hand lane going for the A9 exit and you've got someone on your left hand side heading for the same exit then you can quote the Highway Code incorrectly until you are blue in the face. It won't change the situation you are in. It doesn't mean that you are right and they are wrong. The cemeteries are full of drivers who should have the following words on their headstone.

"I Had Priority"

Take care.

Sorry it's such a long post!

northener
10-Oct-06, 10:20
Sorry Folks, don't know how i managed to send it twice.

how do I remove one without the other?

jaykay
10-Oct-06, 10:29
Common sense dictates that you take the right hand lane.
The amount of times while travelling around the country I have come across
some real idiots at round-abouts and the worst are the ones who sit in the
left hand lane for more than 1 exit. They are the ones who block the exits for the drivers that are in the right hand lane.
You are driving on the inside of the roundabout, there is a car next to you on the outside - you expect that car to pull off at the next exit therefore freeing up the outside lane and making it safe for you to pull over and exit.
Wait a minute, that car has not taken that exit, your exit is next, you indicate but that other car is in your way and bang, you have to slam on the brakes and possibly causing an accident because of the cars behind you.

I couldn't agree more!! Well said Calish6!!!
This is something I have noticed especially in the north of Scotland. There seems to be a lot of drivers who do not understand the rules when it comes to round-abouts. In fairness this is hardly surprising as there are vey few round abouts north of Inverness.

MadPict
10-Oct-06, 11:40
Sorry Folks, don't know how i managed to send it twice.

Maybe you were in the wrong lane ;)


how do I remove one without the other?

Done :)


So therefore the Highway Code does not tell us definitely to use the right hand lane at Tore roundabout or, even, which is the correct lane! It tells us to use our judgement regarding selection (the ultimate cop out).

Neither is absolutely right or wrong, thats why I made the point of saying I use both lanes!.


I expect that to include every roundabout configuration a driver is likely to encounter would make the HC a weighty tome....

And while we are both technically correct regarding the 'legal status' of the HC, your statement "...bear in mind the Highway Code is a general guide. In itself it does not constitute law, it merely highlights various aspects of the Road Traffic Act and other laws regarding the road and its users." is slightly misleading (a bit like the HC advice on R/As maybe?) and is contradicted by the preface to the HC which states "Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements..." (my emphasis). So to dismiss the HC just as a guide book is wrong.

At the end of the day, if a driver approaches and negotiates a roundabout in the wrong lane and comes out the other side with nothing more that an irate toot or two, then everyone around that driver was doing what they were taught to do and that is to drive according to the conditions and with consideration for other road users, even the old and flaky, who can't make their mind up as to which lane is best for them (not insinuating that Rheghead is old or flaky BTW )

Dusty
10-Oct-06, 12:16
Its all about common sense and being a courtious road user surely when the road is so ambiguous.

A couple of things I remember from way back when I was learning to drive are a Public Service Anouncement that went:
He was right oh so right as he drove along,
But now he's as dead as if he'd been wrong.

And my dad's mate who taught me to drive advised,
"Always keep an eye on the idot behind the car in front"

JAWS
10-Oct-06, 17:50
Well said, Dusty. I was also taught to treat everybody else on the road as a absolute idiot who is likely to do anything.

That was not meant as an excuse for arrogance because the implication was that everybody else should treat you in the same manner.

With respect to roundabouts I was told to treat them as a "one way street" which only had exits on the left. Basically, if you intend taking the one of the first couple of exits use the left hand lane and for any turn further than that then the right hand lane until you reach your exit.
Of course, where you can see that the vast majority of vehicles are obviously taking the first exit then I would consider using the right hand lane to get to the second exit.

northener
11-Oct-06, 10:09
Ta for sorting the prob Mad Pict.

Without wishing to sound pedantic, I never said the HC is just a guide book. The point I am making is that the section on roundabouts is not quoted as law. All sections of the Highway Code that are quoting law include the words must/must not and give a reference to the relative act below that paragraph in red. You'll note that there is no law reference in section 162. All non-act sections are open to different interpretation depending on the circumstances at the time (refer back to my earlier scenario) because, as you rightly say, otherwise it would be a weighty tome indeed.

The core of my argument is that in this case neither is 100% right or wrong according to the Highway Code (or for that matter the Driver Standards Agency manual 'Driving - The Essential Skills'). Yes, commonsense would tend to lead people to use the right hand lane but in cases of indecision people could use either and still be making a reasonable choice - providing they made their intentions clear.


Put it this way, if it's so simple (always right hand lane mantra) how come it keeps coming up in discussions around the county? Not everyone I have had this conversation with is someone who rarely ventures South, so we cannot assume lack of knowledge because of inexperience in every case.


Here's an example of the 12 o' clock rule being incorrect.

You're coming down the Cliff in Wick from the lights and you wish to proceed onto Bridge Street.

This roundabout exit is after 12 o'clock, so if you blindly follow the after 12 rule you will indicate right.

You have now just told anyone exiting Bridge St that your intention is to cross in front of them, therefore possibly causing them to wait unecessarily.

This is an example of interpretation, technically indicating right should be correct (after 12) , but not necessarily the best option in this case.

Regarding posts dealing with other drivers who are 'in the wrong lane' (whether it's left or right)-

Providing you are carrying out good all round observation, travelling at a speed that allows you to make an accurate assessment of other road users intentions and are prepared to give priority to that road user, you will never have a problem with anyone on a roundabout!

Easy innit!

MadPict
11-Oct-06, 11:11
Here's an example of the 12 o' clock rule being incorrect.

You're coming down the Cliff in Wick from the lights and you wish to proceed onto Bridge Street.

This roundabout exit is after 12 o'clock, so if you blindly follow the after 12 rule you will indicate right.

You have now just told anyone exiting Bridge St that your intention is to cross in front of them, therefore possibly causing them to wait unecessarily.

This is an example of interpretation, technically indicating right should be correct (after 12) , but not necessarily the best option in this case.


Ahhh, but thats a mini-roundabout ;)

I think we're "arguing" in circles over this wee book - so we're both right in our quoting.


It's not just drivers 'interpretation' of how to deal with a roundabout - it's also local councils / Highways Agency. We have a roundabout on a fairly busy junction near me. Until maybe four years ago there were no markings ON the roundabout but after some "road improvements" on the approach/departure roads some bright spark decided to add 'filter lane' markings.

Courtesy of Google Maps and Photoshop I can illustrate the junction in question. The green 'car' is taking the correct path round the roundabout and off that there is no doubt. It is even indicating as advised in the HC.

On the other hand the red 'car' is following, what they perceive to be the correct route, as indicated by their interpretation of the road markings.

This IS WRONG. The 'filter lane' marking is actually intended to 'guide drivers' into following the correct route (that of the green 'car'). Due to the camber on this R/A taking the route of the red 'car' actually forces you outwards from the centre, causing some drivers to brake and adding yet another element of fun into the daily joy of driving here in the sooth....

But drivers think they have to move to the outside of the R/A, which if they are driving the car in front of you means they travel a further distance, which in turn means you almost 'overtake' them. They then cut back in front of you to take the same exit as you.

And you think the Bridge Street R/A is a problem? And why that was put in place? Someone had a spare mini-roundabout sitting on a shelf?
Planner A - "Hmmm, what shall we do with this last mini R/A?"
Planner B - "I know, stick it in Wick - they don't have any R/As. Then if we have a spare set of traffic lights we'll confuse them with those...Muahahahahaha...."

northener
11-Oct-06, 15:23
Yup, it's a mini roundabout!

Same theory on approach regarding Signal though, just only one entry lane.

Regarding the lovely piccie you attached, looks like fun....

Wick roundabout, always a hoot. 3 ways of dealing with it - go regardless of who is where, stop regardless of who is where and once you have stopped, let the whole world go first.

Just one more thing for you to think about regarding the Highway Codes' status as a legal document...

The Driver standards Agency Theory Test for Approved Driving Instructors has the following question:

"Q: Failure on the part of a person to observe a provision of the Highway Code shall:

A: not of itself render that person liable to criminal proceedings."

In other words you cannot be prosecuted for failing to observe a provision of the Highway Code in itself, only those sections that are stated as law. All other sections may be used to arrive at a correct decision and used in a court of law as a guide to arrive at a conclusion depending on the circumstances at the time. Doesn't mean you should ignore the HC, though. Thats different.


Yeah, we are definitely going round in circles now!

MadPict
11-Oct-06, 20:11
Think I'll take the first exit now....:D

northener
11-Oct-06, 21:34
Nah, close your eyes and go for it!
There's got to be more to life than this.....

Errogie
12-Oct-06, 15:22
My head is spinning on this one and any certainity about the correct procedure on roundabouts completely evaporated. I also have to confess to meeting my first roundabout ever on the south coast of England with "L" plates on a newly acquired motor bike and of course went round it the wrong way and survived!
However am trying to work out a route to Wick via Strathalladale and the north coast avoiding all roundabouts and if that can't be done there's always the ocean alternative. And what about the give way rule on continental roundabouts they are a serious nightmare.

Errogie
12-Oct-06, 21:21
Well, I studied the motor vehicles book on my flight over, so I shall give everyone interested a lesson on this subject when we meet at that private club in Wick on Saturday. Cedric I may need you to sign me in.

Canuck writing on Errogie's account.

Now I shall turn in back to the org to respond to his previous post.