Windpower! It would be funny if it wasn’t so serious!

[ywindythesecond]

Windpower! It would be funny if it wasn’t so serious!

Last weekend, National grid forecast almost 100% output from the windpower it monitors, but had to shut much of it down because we had too much unwanted electricity. We will soon learn how much that cost us.
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/3589/reuters1392011.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/reuters1392011.jpg/)


Once again, NG is forecasting ZERO output for tomorrow.http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5086/forecast2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/695/forecast2.jpg/)

It would be funny if it wasn’t so serious!

[Even Chance]

If you spent the same amount of effort devising a storage solution for the wind power as you have slating it we'd be sorted.

[NickInTheNorth]

Windpower! It would be funny if it wasn’t so serious!

Can you tell me why you are so surprised that sometimes there is a ZERO windpower output forecast?

Do you not know that sometimes the wind don't blow?

[Rheghead]

And the fact that wind power has been supplying 10% of our electricity for this week has been totally lost on ywindy.

[Walter Ego]

"Will someone rid me of this meddlesome priest!"

[secrets in symmetry]

Can you tell me why you are so surprised that sometimes there is a ZERO windpower output forecast?

Do you not know that sometimes the wind don't blow?Lol! Have you read his report that the John Muir Trust (Stupid and Gullible Branch) have been running with? There's a similarly stupid assumption in it, and, not only that, he makes a big fuss about testing it - and finding it's wrong! You couldn't make it up...

[Corrie 3]

This weeks star prize for the biggest NIMBY of all time..............

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-14923612

Get used to it Donnie boy.....we all have to!!!

C3.................:mad::eek:[disgust]

[ywindythesecond]

Can you tell me why you are so surprised that sometimes there is a ZERO windpower output forecast?

Do you not know that sometimes the wind don't blow?

I’m not surprised Nick. But see the following extracts from the report SiS is rubbishing;

http://www.jmt.org/assets/pdf/Report_Analysis%20UK%20Wind_SYoung.pdf
(It’s a cracking good read!)

“2. The wind is always blowing somewhere.

Extract from the Executive Summary of a Report by the Environmental Change
Institute for the Department of Trade and Industry “wind power and the UK wind
resource”.
(Found at http://www.eci.ox.ac.uk/publications/downloads/sinden05-
dtiwindreport.pdf and linked to from Scottish Government’s “Onshore Wind Frequently asked
questions” at http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Business-Industry/Energy/Energysources/
19185/17852-1/WindFAQ ):
“Extreme lows or highs in wind speed are a natural feature of the UK wind
climate; however a diversified wind power system would be less affected
as it is rare that these extreme events affect large areas of the country at
the same time. This report found that:
• Low wind speed conditions affecting 90% or more of the UK
would occur in around one hour every five years during winter;”

“3. Periods of widespread low wind are infrequent.

See 2 above.
Also, taken from yes2wind website at http://www.yes2wind.com/explore/debunking-the-myths :

Myth 5 - Wind power isn't reliable
“A great advantage of wind power is that the available wind resource is
much greater during the colder months of the year, when energy demand is
at its highest. And the wind will never stop blowing everywhere in the UK at
once!”

BTW SiS, I should be grateful if you would point out the “stupid assumption etc”. The wind industry appears to have failed to pick it up. I am sure they would have mentioned it if they had.

[orkneycadian]

I think the intermittency of many natural resources is shocking. Take daylight for example. Here I am writing this by natural light streaming through the window - But yet, I can forecast with 100% confidence that come 9pm tonight, this useless resource will have disappeared and I'll have to resort to artificial light! Not only do I have to pay to have an artificial light installation in my house, the national grid have to be on standby to meet the demand of all these artificial lighting installations when daylight, once again, lets us down. And its not just here in the North - The entire country, and even worse, an entire hemisphere can experience near total absence of daylight simultaneously! Now that I think is shocking, and we should be campaigning to put an end to this highly intermittent resource we call daylight that lets us down, country wide, once every 24 hours, for up to 18 hours at a time. How on earth we are expected to work with a natural resource that is so intermittent is beyond me....

[gerry4]

I am no expert on wind power but there was a feature about it on last nights Radio Scotland evening news program. It seems the reason where there can be too much power and the turbines closed is that the power lines can't cope. Once the new lines down to the south and the extra lines to the continent to export power are built then the down time will be far less.

Also it was pointed out the payment to the wind companies for down time is very small in comparison to the amount paid to the other coal & gas power generation stations for their down time.

As I said I am no expert but it was nice to hear the other side of the argument by someone who seemed to know what they were taking about.

[Rheghead]

I’m not surprised Nick. But see the following extracts from the report SiS is rubbishing;

http://www.jmt.org/assets/pdf/Report_Analysis%20UK%20Wind_SYoung.pdf
(It’s a cracking good read!).

It was a good read but then Alice in Wonderland is a good read.

You took your data entirely from BMReports. BMReports have shown to be faulty in that data doesn't always get shown. Consequently load factors which were calculated via your report were significantly in error and pessimistic when compared to those calculated from the ROC register.

[weezer 316]

This weeks star prize for the biggest NIMBY of all time..............

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-14923612

Get used to it Donnie boy.....we all have to!!!

C3.................:mad::eek:[disgust]

Trump is an idiot! hes opening a golf course and then calling wind farms "enviromentally irresponsible".

BTW what exactly is the complaint from you bunch of whingers about wind farms? The fact they look ugly (they dont) isnt a valid reason btw.

[NickInTheNorth]

BTW what exactly is the complaint from you bunch of whingers about wind farms? The fact they look ugly (they dont) isnt a valid reason btw.

I hope I'm not included in that statement - I love 'em, would plant them everywhere!

[weezer 316]

No it was just aimed at the people who complain about winfd farms and wind power. I must accept i just totally dont get it at all, a bit like cricket. Im totally bemused why you woudlnt want them and the power they provide.

[Gronnuck]

No it was just aimed at the people who complain about winfd farms and wind power. I must accept i just totally dont get it at all, a bit like cricket. Im totally bemused why you woudlnt want them and the power they provide.

Most of my posts on the subject have undoubtably been negative. I admit to being sceptical regarding their real worth. Having seen them in various locations around the world I could get to quite like them; especially if they were to produce them in colours other than peely-wally grey! Pastel shades of blue, yellow, pink and purple might be nice.
What really irritates me is the money that is being made off the backs of the electricity consumers who have little or no choice regarding how they get their supply. The poor, the disabled and the elderly are being hit the hardest since a larger proportion of their meager income is spent on heat and light. IMO the funding of the whole enterprise is morally repugnant.

[weezer 316]

Gronncuk,

Forgive me but does anyone havbe a choice of how they get their supply? At the end of the day its better than fossil fuels surely!

[Gronnuck]

Gronncuk,

Forgive me but does anyone havbe a choice of how they get their supply? At the end of the day its better than fossil fuels surely!

No one has a choice since all the electricity supply companies are following the same state sponsored green agenda. The move from fossil fuels to wind power is laudable BUT the costs are being spread unfairly with the poor, the disabled and the elderly being hardest hit since a larger proportion of their meager income is spent on heat and light. This is what I find questionable. Increased electricity charges and green taxes are all very well but under the current regime we are putting many people in the position of having to choose between heating their home or having a meal. A situation that should not be tolerated in this day and age.

[weezer 316]

No one has a choice since all the electricity supply companies are following the same state sponsored green agenda. The move from fossil fuels to wind power is laudable BUT the costs are being spread unfairly with the poor, the disabled and the elderly being hardest hit since a larger proportion of their meager income is spent on heat and light. This is what I find questionable. Increased electricity charges and green taxes are all very well but under the current regime we are putting many people in the position of having to choose between heating their home or having a meal. A situation that should not be tolerated in this day and age.

How do you expect it to be funded ? Regardless of your point the poorest will always be hit hardest in just about anything, that not just a big windmill problem.

[Gronnuck]

How do you expect it to be funded ? Regardless of your point the poorest will always be hit hardest in just about anything, that not just a big windmill problem.

Curb the profits of the energy supply companies and land owners through taxation, ring fence the money to fund a 'social tariff' to help the poor, the disabled and the elderly pay their energy bills. Means test them if necessary. Fuel poverty is defined by the Government where households have to spend more than 10% of their household income on fuel to keep their home in a 'satisfactory' condition. No one should be suffering fuel poverty in this day and age.
I suspect taxing someone's profits might be anathema to you but having vulnerable people dying or suffering and needing expensive health care intervantion is anathema to many other people.

[chordie]

From today's Aberdeen Evening Express:

Wind turbine blades could ‘fly off’
Company warns of major defect
A WIND turbine company that has supplied generators in Aberdeenshire has warned blades could fly off.
Turbine company Proven Energy needs more than 600 of its turbines to be shut down.
Sales have been suspended amid fears of catastrophic mechanical failure, which could see blades breaking off Proven 35-2 generators in the worst-case scenario.

[weezer 316]

Curb the profits of the energy supply companies and land owners through taxation, ring fence the money to fund a 'social tariff' to help the poor, the disabled and the elderly pay their energy bills. Means test them if necessary. Fuel poverty is defined by the Government where households have to spend more than 10% of their household income on fuel to keep their home in a 'satisfactory' condition. No one should be suffering fuel poverty in this day and age.
I suspect taxing someone's profits might be anathema to you but having vulnerable people dying or suffering and needing expensive health care intervantion is anathema to many other people.

No I agree with most of that. Clearly there has been a cartel-like operation going on, with energy prices not falling when wholesale prices fell, yet they rise quick enough. Its a bit like the medical arena in the states where in reality people can charge what they want because you need the care they provide.

What I am trying to say I suppose is that you could avoid ring fencing things if they were regulated to ensure prices matched supply prices more closely. This would certainly bring energy prices down and with it get rid of the fuel poverty.

[upolian]

I could supply more power passing wind,more reliable aswell!!

[orkneycadian]

:eek: Wow, thats a fair claim! www.oref.co.uk at this second says Orkney is producing 27 MW vs about the 24 MW we are using! Your saying you have a 36,000 horsepower backside? :eek:

[ywindythesecond]

It was a good read but then Alice in Wonderland is a good read.

You took your data entirely from BMReports. BMReports have shown to be faulty in that data doesn't always get shown. Consequently load factors which were calculated via your report were significantly in error and pessimistic when compared to those calculated from the ROC register.

So you say Reggy, but this seems to be another "glaring error" the wind industry missed and failed uncharacteristically to point out.

[secrets in symmetry]

BTW SiS, I should be grateful if you would point out the “stupid assumption etc”. The wind industry appears to have failed to pick it up. I am sure they would have mentioned it if they had.Sure will, but not tonight.

Don't forget that much of the wind industry is too stupid to notice, and in this case it's not in their interest to pick it up. Since the Hogan Bitch has attacked you in public, you must have noticed how stupid she is. Have you ever seen her interviewed by a half competent journalist? She repeats the lies in her script like an Indian Call Centre drone, and I'm pretty sure this is because she's either too stupid and possibly too deluded and dishonest to answer the question properly. The only thing she's interested in is Hogan Career PLC. She fits perfectly into the corporate structure of her organisation.

[oldmarine]

I see so many windmills in our California desert I believe they are running out of space.

[secrets in symmetry]

I’m not surprised Nick. But see the following extracts from the report SiS is rubbishing;

http://www.jmt.org/assets/pdf/Report_Analysis%20UK%20Wind_SYoung.pdf
(It’s a cracking good read!)

“2. The wind is always blowing somewhere.

Extract from the Executive Summary of a Report by the Environmental Change
Institute for the Department of Trade and Industry “wind power and the UK wind
resource”.
(Found at http://www.eci.ox.ac.uk/publications/downloads/sinden05-
dtiwindreport.pdf and linked to from Scottish Government’s “Onshore Wind Frequently asked
questions” at http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Business-Industry/Energy/Energysources/
19185/17852-1/WindFAQ ):
“Extreme lows or highs in wind speed are a natural feature of the UK wind
climate; however a diversified wind power system would be less affected
as it is rare that these extreme events affect large areas of the country at
the same time. This report found that:
• Low wind speed conditions affecting 90% or more of the UK
would occur in around one hour every five years during winter;”

“3. Periods of widespread low wind are infrequent.

See 2 above.
Also, taken from yes2wind website at http://www.yes2wind.com/explore/debunking-the-myths :

Myth 5 - Wind power isn't reliable
“A great advantage of wind power is that the available wind resource is
much greater during the colder months of the year, when energy demand is
at its highest. And the wind will never stop blowing everywhere in the UK at
once!”

BTW SiS, I should be grateful if you would point out the “stupid assumption etc”. The wind industry appears to have failed to pick it up. I am sure they would have mentioned it if they had.I'm sorry for taking so long to get back to you ywindy, I have no excuse other than that I forgot.

Here is the offending assumption:



This Report set out to test a few assumptions. One hypothesis which seemed likely is that if wind
farms generate at 30% of their rated capacity on average, then it might be reasonable to expect that
they will generate over 30% for about half the time and under 30% for about half the time.
However, it is now clear that wind behaviour is not so simple.



I'd intended to explain why your hypothesis is obviously very, very wrong, but I've changed my mind. I'll set you a challenge instead...

Having gathered and analysed the data that proves beyond reasonable doubt that it is wrong, can you explain in simple terms why it is so obviously wrong?

[Rheghead]

Myth 5 - Wind power isn't reliable
“A great advantage of wind power is that the available wind resource is
much greater during the colder months of the year, when energy demand is
at its highest. And the wind will never stop blowing everywhere in the UK at
once!

How is this a myth?

[ywindythesecond]

How is this a myth?

There you go again Reggy. The MYTH as described by yes2wind on its website http://www.yes2wind.com/explore/debunking-the-myths (http://www.yes2wind.com/explore/debunking-the-myths)
is that "Wind power isn't reliable". The STATEMENT made by yes2wind "And the wind will never stop blowing everywhere in the UK at
once!" is clearly not supportable but who said it was a myth? Not me. On 15th September 3696MW worth of windmills produced only 21MW for a short period. I know that this shows that there was some wind somewhere, but the objective is to power the nation.
On reflection, wind power is reliable. It can be relied upon to be frequently absent at unknown times and dates in the future. It is the only generation source we use which can be totally absent and which is completely outwith our control.

[orkneycadian]

the objective is to power the nation.

Does any of the amps that comes out of sockets in Caithness originate from nuclear power stations? If not, does that mean nuclear power is a dead loss too?

[Rheghead]

There you go again Reggy. The MYTH as described by yes2wind on its website http://www.yes2wind.com/explore/debunking-the-myths (http://www.yes2wind.com/explore/debunking-the-myths)
is that "Wind power isn't reliable". The STATEMENT made by yes2wind "And the wind will never stop blowing everywhere in the UK at
once!" is clearly not supportable but who said it was a myth? Not me. On 15th September 3696MW worth of windmills produced only 21MW for a short period. I know that this shows that there was some wind somewhere, but the objective is to power the nation.
On reflection, wind power is reliable. It can be relied upon to be frequently absent at unknown times and dates in the future. It is the only generation source we use which can be totally absent and which is completely outwith our control.

Reread the sentence because I am sure you misunderstand it.

And the wind will never stop blowing everywhere in the UK at once

The sentence doesn't say that there will never be any periods of zero or very near to zero wind.

It says the wind will never suddenly stop producing power in a matter of seconds or at once, it will take several hours to run down to zero, in which time other forms of generation will have enough time to respond from hotstandby or cold standby.

In contrast, large generators such as Torness and Sizewell B do have outages which happen in seconds and that is why they are unreliable and require 3GW of spinning reserve constantly present so that such outages can be accomodated by a quick response in output.

[Fly]

If wind farms are so efficient why are countries such as Germany and Denmark getting rid of them?

[Rheghead]

If wind farms are so efficient why are countries such as Germany and Denmark getting rid of them?

That is the popular anti-wind myth but there is little evidence to support it, Germany and Denmark continue to expand their wind energy sectors.

[Fly]

That is the popular anti-wind myth but there is little evidence to support it, Germany and Denmark are expanding their wind energy sectors.

Not what I was told the last time I was in Germany.

[Rheghead]

Not what I was told the last time I was in Germany.

In that case you must be right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_by_country

[bekisman]

In 2009, the Institute for Energy Research commissioned the Danish think-tank CEPOS to report on electricity exports from Denmark and the economic impact of the Danish wind industry. This report states that Danes pay the highest residential electricity rates in the European Union.. Surely not!!!:eek:

[Rheghead]

In 2009, the Institute for Energy Research commissioned the Danish think-tank CEPOS to report on electricity exports from Denmark and the economic impact of the Danish wind industry. This report states that Danes pay the highest residential electricity rates in the European Union.. Surely not!!!:eek:

Of course we'd have to take a careful look at the detail, as often happens, people tend to cherry pick their truth. Indeed, you are right, Denmark does have the highest domestic electricity rates in the EU but to make any sense out of it you have to find out what is the causal factor and/or why that is so, you are obviously trying to put the blame on wind energy.

Denmark does have one of the highest VAT rates in Europe and other taxation burdens which pushes up the price of their electricity to the highest in the EU but the underlying cost of their electricity, net of taxation, tells a different story as this graph from Fullfact shows.

http://fullfact.org/sites/fullfact.org/files/styles/large/public/EU%20household%20electricity%20prices%20and%20taxe s_0.png

EDIT Institute for Energy Research is largely funded by Koch Industries and Exxon who spend zillions on climate change denial publications.

[secrets in symmetry]

Reread the sentence because I am sure you misunderstand it.

And the wind will never stop blowing everywhere in the UK at once

The sentence doesn't say that there will never be any periods of zero or very near to zero wind.

It says the wind will never suddenly stop producing power in a matter of seconds or at once, it will take several hours to run down to zero, in which time other forms of generation will have enough time to respond from hotstandby or cold standby.

In contrast, large generators such as Torness and Sizewell B do have outages which happen in seconds and that is why they are unreliable and require 3GW of spinning reserve constantly present so that such outages can be accomodated by a quick response in output.That's an interesting spin on an old argument. With your interpretation of the "never" claim, and your definition of "unreliable", you are right.:cool:

I'm still waiting for ywindy's explanation of why his silly assumption was obviously wrong, but I'm patient. It's better that the answer is right than it is to answer the question quickly.

[bekisman]

Of course we'd have to take a careful look at the detail, as often happens, people tend to cherry pick their truth. Indeed, you are right, Denmark does have the highest domestic electricity rates in the EU but to make any sense out of it you have to find out what is the causal factor and/or why that is so, you are obviously trying to put the blame on wind energy.

Denmark does have one of the highest VAT rates in Europe and other taxation burdens which pushes up the price of their electricity to the highest in the EU but the underlying cost of their electricity, net of taxation, tells a different story as this graph from Fullfact shows.

http://fullfact.org/sites/fullfact.org/files/styles/large/public/EU household electricity prices and taxes_0.png

EDIT Institute for Energy Research is largely funded by Koch Industries and Exxon who spend zillions on climate change denial publications.
What's a zillion? you sure you're not exaggerating Rheggy? sounds a lot to me, I always try to get things accurate (as much I can - not being a scientist).. Wonder if the Danes are happy paying that much for their leccy anyway - VAT and all.. I see France (Nuclear) are not too bad..

[ywindythesecond]

Reread the sentence because I am sure you misunderstand it.

And the wind will never stop blowing everywhere in the UK at once

The sentence doesn't say that there will never be any periods of zero or very near to zero wind.

It says the wind will never suddenly stop producing power in a matter of seconds or at once, it will take several hours to run down to zero, in which time other forms of generation will have enough time to respond from hotstandby or cold standby.

In contrast, large generators such as Torness and Sizewell B do have outages which happen in seconds and that is why they are unreliable and require 3GW of spinning reserve constantly present so that such outages can be accomodated by a quick response in output.

That is an interesting exercise in semantics Reggy, but the speed of reaching near zero output for individual elements of a generation technology is not important overall. You correctly point out that major thermal plants can fail instantly and the system is in place to deal with this. However, only windpower can be effectively completely absent across all its generating units at the same time. How often have all nuclear, or all coal, or all hydro or all gas etc. etc. plants been simultaneously unavailable? (Perhaps coal courtesy of Mr Skargill).
How sensible is it to place reliance on an energy source which is demonstrably so unreliable that you must make plans for its complete absence in times of need?

[ywindythesecond]

I'm sorry for taking so long to get back to you ywindy, I have no excuse other than that I forgot.

Here is the offending assumption:


This Report set out to test a few assumptions. One hypothesis which seemed likely is that if wind
farms generate at 30% of their rated capacity on average, then it might be reasonable to expect that
they will generate over 30% for about half the time and under 30% for about half the time.
However, it is now clear that wind behaviour is not so simple.



I'd intended to explain why your hypothesis is obviously very, very wrong, but I've changed my mind. I'll set you a challenge instead...

Having gathered and analysed the data that proves beyond reasonable doubt that it is wrong, can you explain in simple terms why it is so obviously wrong?
Sorry to have taken so long to reply. I am developing a self contained flat within the house using kitchen units from the house whilst simultaneously renewing the house kitchen. Like most major projects, it is behind programme and over budget and the client is making increasingly unreasonable demands.
However, I have not ignored or forgotten your challenge and I will provide a reasoned response. Meantime, please note that my study set out to "test a few assumptions" not to prove a hypothesis. If you Google hypothesis WIKI says "A hypothesis is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon." A hypothesis is a starting point in an exercise to find the real answer.

[Rheghead]

That is an interesting exercise in semantics Reggy, but the speed of reaching near zero output for individual elements of a generation technology is not important overall.

It is not my interpretation, I'm not the one mixing up the terms variability with unreliability. Wind is very stable and reliable and is a very important feature, in fact it is probably the most important feature of wind for the balancing boys at the national grid to know that the output from wind will be firm from within a few hours of any given point.

[secrets in symmetry]

Sorry to have taken so long to reply. I am developing a self contained flat within the house using kitchen units from the house whilst simultaneously renewing the house kitchen. Like most major projects, it is behind programme and over budget and the client is making increasingly unreasonable demands.
However, I have not ignored or forgotten your challenge and I will provide a reasoned response. Meantime, please note that my study set out to "test a few assumptions" not to prove a hypothesis. If you Google hypothesis WIKI says "A hypothesis is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon." A hypothesis is a starting point in an exercise to find the real answer.Yes, you're right about hypothesis versus assumption. I was loose with my choice of words.

Good luck with the kitchen project!

[ywindythesecond]

Thanks for that. The kitchen is just about there now. For hypothesis, I should have said "expectation". Am I off the hook now?

[secrets in symmetry]

For hypothesis, I should have said "expectation". Am I off the hook now?Not until you explain why it was a silly assumption/expectation. :cool:

[Rheghead]

Not until you explain why it was a silly assumption/expectation. :cool:

I am rather looking forward to this. :D

[Neil Howie]

I'm thinking this isn't the first in a series of threads, e.g.


Nuclear Power! It would be funny if it wasn't so serious!

etc

[bekisman]

Oh my gosh!! (Today's news)

'Renewable energy production drops in Scotland'

Well I never:

'The total amount of renewable energy produced from wind and hydro power schemes in Scotland fell last year. And despite a sharp increase in the number of wind turbines installed, there was only a 6% increase in the amount of power they produced.
Scottish Labour leader Iain Gray MSP called for the Scottish government to set interim annual targets on renewable energy production. He said: "Alex Salmond's overblown rhetoric on energy needs to match reality.
"This week he hailed Scotland's renewables revolution as a 'paradigm shift', the greatest in 10,000 years, equivalent to the 'change from hunter gathering to agriculture' but he is failing to come up with the goods or even outline milestones towards 2020."
Mr Gray said Scotland had "colossal" renewable energy potential which must be seized.
He added: "It is not good enough for the SNP government to simply cross its fingers and hope it is breezy in 2020."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-15122699 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-15122699)

[orkneycadian]

Hydro power down by 33%
Oil production down by 16%
Gas production down by 25%
Wind power up by 6%

Looks like we are heading in the right direction!

[bekisman]

Hydro power down by 33%
Oil production down by 16%
Gas production down by 25%
Wind power up by 6%

Looks like we are heading in the right direction!

Don't remember any new hydro schemes coming on steam, "And despite a sharp increase in the number of wind turbines installed" must not forget that bit.

[orkneycadian]

Don't remember any new hydro schemes coming on steam, "And despite a sharp increase in the number of wind turbines installed" must not forget that bit.

Well, Glendoe did come on line in 2009, and 2010 should have been its first full year of production! But then it broke, and won't be producing again till well into next year! Good job we have wind power which doesnt have 3 year shutdowns within a few months of commisioning!

[Rheghead]

Wind power reaches record share of UK electricity generation.

http://www.rechargenews.com/energy/wind/article280973.ece?WT.mc_id=rechargenews_rss

[orkneycadian]

"And despite a sharp increase in the number of wind turbines installed" must not forget that bit.

Hmmm, Wikipedia suggests that by the end of 2010 there was 8.5% more onshore wind generation capacity than at the end of 2009. Not exactly a "sharp increase" and reasonably consistent with the 6% increase in power production from them.

It very much looks like the more turbines you have, the more power production you get from them. All in the face of ever decreasing oil and gas production, and, as it appears, declining hydro production.

[secrets in symmetry]

I am rather looking forward to this. :DDiana Ross can say it better than I can:

Diana Ross (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTAZh4Sccsk)