View Full Version : Solar Power
travelling man
09-Sep-11, 10:02
Do you have solar panels and if so what do you think of them? We've been approached by Solar Energy Savings about panels and are swithering as it's a lot of money to put out.We're told it is supposed to pay for itself in 6-8 years. Has anyone had dealings with them?
I have to admit I haven't seen many roofs in caithness sporting a natty line in solar panels. I think the thought of losing them in the high winds might put people off. I too would be interested in hearing of peoples experiences of them hereabouts.
Duncansby
09-Sep-11, 13:03
Is the 6-8yr figure based on a UK average, south of England figure or the amount of actual solar energy available in Caithness? It would also depend what your using the energy for and what if any storeage system you'll be using - as during the winter you'd need something to supplement the lower generation during winter. Would Pentland Energy Advice be able to advise you?
Here in Lewis my neighbouring house have installed quite a few on their roof - the photovoltic panels have made them quite a bit of money and all their power for their own personal use. Panels have been in for a few months now, they are happy with the returns so far.
The couple have really studied this, as part of employment, before investing the money.
Do you have solar panels and if so what do you think of them? We've been approached by Solar Energy Savings about panels and are swithering as it's a lot of money to put out.We're told it is supposed to pay for itself in 6-8 years. Has anyone had dealings with them?
Look at it this way, if you had say £15,000 which I think can get you the largest PV array and it is sat in the bank for 6-8 years then you might get a £1000 return on your investment, now let us assume Solar Energy Savings are pulling a fast one and it actually takes 15 years for the PV to pay for itself then you still get £1000 back each year and a huge asset that saves you energy.
I say go for it and don't look a gift horse in the mouth because as from this year the Feed-in tariffs are set to decrease by 8.5% each year and now is the time to strike it good.
ywindythesecond
09-Sep-11, 21:05
Look at it this way, if you had say £15,000 which I think can get you the largest PV array and it is sat in the bank for 6-8 years then you might get a £1000 return on your investment, now let us assume Solar Energy Savings are pulling a fast one and it actually takes 15 years for the PV to pay for itself then you still get £1000 back each year and a huge asset that saves you energy.
I say go for it and don't look a gift horse in the mouth because as from this year the Feed-in tariffs are set to decrease by 8.5% each year and now is the time to strike it good.
Good financial advice indeed travelling man. Just be aware that the returns from this investment will be paid for by other electricity users and as time goes by your neighbours will come to resent your good fortune at their expense, particularly when their bills rise and you make a profit from them.
http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/FITs/principles/funding/
Quote from the Feed in Tariffs website http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/
"The money doesn't come from the Government, but from the energy market
Who pays my tariffs to me?http://dev.fitariffs.co.uk/library/Money.jpgAlthough the FITs are established in law, rather than coming from the government, the tariffs are actually paid by the energy suppliers.
Where does the money come from?It comes out of the pockets of the supply companies because they are really nice guys!
No seriously...
The suppliers pass on the cost of the Feed-In Tariffs scheme to all their electricity customers.
... so the bottom line is that people who don't install renewable energy systems pay for those who do!"
Fair point that there is a good return, approx 8-10%. However, at the end of x years, you can't get your initial investment back. You could say that it is like purchasing an annuity as the money is gone for good. Prudent investment would reap good, albeit smaller returns, whilst retaining the money for future use.
Do you have solar panels and if so what do you think of them? We've been approached by Solar Energy Savings about panels and are swithering as it's a lot of money to put out.We're told it is supposed to pay for itself in 6-8 years. Has anyone had dealings with them?
Well I looked in this morning hoping to see someone local extolling the virtues of their photovoltic array, but it looks as if homeowners in Caithness are as cautious and perhaps as cynical as I am.
travelling man
10-Sep-11, 19:11
Thanks everyone for your opinions. They've certainly given me food for thought. I think I'll look into it a bit more before committing myself.
dragonfly
11-Sep-11, 07:41
my dads got them installed (house in Thurso) in July and he's a canny investor so reckon if he thinks there's money to be made from it then there is. Its a large investment at first but like said above he reckons he'll get a return within 8 years and has already seen a drop in his consumption.
Necessity breeds innovation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBWi3NtND68&feature=youtube_gdata_player
... so the bottom line is that people who don't install renewable energy systems pay for those who do!"
Then there is the economic effect of reducing demand on fossil fuels which reduces the cost of electricity from those sources or energy price stabilisation. And so the neighbours of people who have renewable energy systems will also benefit.
I'd hold fire. There are companies who will install them for free and share the profit. They haven't reached Caithness yet though.
http://www.freesolarpanelsuk.co.uk/
Then there is the economic effect of reducing demand on fossil fuels which reduces the cost of electricity from those sources or energy price stabilisation. And so the neighbours of people who have renewable energy systems will also benefit.
Hummmmmph - if you believe any energy supplier is going to reduce the price of electricity you must be very naive.
Hummmmmph - if you believe any energy supplier is going to reduce the price of electricity you must be very naive.
Not so much naivity but mere observation of past trends.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Rheghead/unknowns/energyprices.jpg
oldmarine
13-Sep-11, 02:14
my dads got them installed (house in Thurso) in July and he's a canny investor so reckon if he thinks there's money to be made from it then there is. Its a large investment at first but like said above he reckons he'll get a return within 8 years and has already seen a drop in his consumption.
If it takes 8 years for me to to get a return, at 86 years of age I doubt whether I live that long.
Walter Ego
13-Sep-11, 06:44
........ Just be aware that the returns from this investment will be paid for by other electricity users and as time goes by your neighbours will come to resent your good fortune at their expense, particularly when their bills rise and you make a profit from them....
[/h]
And people who don't start up new businesses and receive funding to help them are funding those who do, presumably you find this a problem too? Tin of beans for 9p in Lidaldescos? The bloke down the aisle is paying for your discount with his purchase.
Incentives are offered across private and public sectors all the time and one 'consumer' is always funding a discount somewhere else - either directly or indirectly.
... so the bottom line is that people who don't install renewable energy systems pay for those who do!"
Here's a thought, Windy. If we ALL install......;)
Not so much naivity but mere observation of past trends.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Rheghead/unknowns/energyprices.jpg
Is this the Hockey Stick they're talking about?
Not so much naivity but mere observation of past trends.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Rheghead/unknowns/energyprices.jpg
Interesting chart - where did it come from?
You will have noticed the unprecedented increase in electricity and gas costs since 2004. I doubt very much whether that will ever reduce as dramatically no matter how green we become.
Given the escalating costs of electricity does anyone know of a company that is prepared to rent my roof for 25 years in exchange for free electricity and an indemnity against roof damage?
Interesting chart - where did it come from?
You will have noticed the unprecedented increase in electricity and gas costs since 2004. I doubt very much whether that will ever reduce as dramatically no matter how green we become.
It comes from Energy in Brief 2010.
Certainly the energy prices have been increasing dramatically since 2004 and I doubt prices will come down if we continue to rely heavily upon the finite resources of coal and gas. Too many countries are industrialising and there will be many fingers in the pie. Competition for resources is something that we have to deal with.
ywindythesecond
13-Sep-11, 22:09
And people who don't start up new businesses and receive funding to help them are funding those who do, presumably you find this a problem too? Tin of beans for 9p in Lidaldescos? The bloke down the aisle is paying for your discount with his purchase.
Incentives are offered across private and public sectors all the time and one 'consumer' is always funding a discount somewhere else - either directly or indirectly.
Here's a thought, Windy. If we ALL install......;)
Hi Walter,
You quoted this from my post:
"........ Just be aware that the returns from this investment will be paid for by other electricity users and as time goes by your neighbours will come to resent your good fortune at their expense, particularly when their bills rise and you make a profit from them...." That was my words.
And you quoted this:
".. so the bottom line is that people who don't install renewable energy systems pay for those who do!" These were not my words but an extract from the Feed in Tariffs website http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/FITs/principles/funding/ (http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/FITs/principles/funding/)
So if we all install PV, we will all be poorer for it. Apart from the salesmen, installers, shareholders of associated companies etc.
GrannyMags
13-Sep-11, 22:24
sorry to say i got mine about 8years ago and would not have them again and wouldnt recommend to any1 to buy them
Well the Feed in Tariffs are estiblished in law and I assume that to be the Kyoto protocol and we are stuck with them for the next 25 years. So no point in bleating about them as they cannot be changed.
sorry to say i got mine about 8years ago and would not have them again and wouldnt recommend to any1 to buy them
Why not? Please explain.
ywindythesecond
13-Sep-11, 23:52
Well the Feed in Tariffs are estiblished in law and I assume that to be the Kyoto protocol and we are stuck with them for the next 25 years. So no point in bleating about them as they cannot be changed.
Why not? Please explain.
The Caithness climate is more appropriate for wind turbines than solar panels, keep in mind that with solar panel manufacturers their figures for efficiency etc are usually the spec for ideal conditions, ie no cloud cover and sun high in the sky as it is at the equator. For practical info go see the Wick Harbour Authority and ask them for the statistics on the solar panels on the fish mart roof, they have been there for several years now.
Now if you are not going to produce electricity with your solar panels but instead get the kind that has liquid circulating in them for warming up your hot water, or prewarming before it reaches your actual boiler, you are looking at a completely different set of problems, but it might still be the more efficient way to go.
Above all, do your own research, what works for one may not be the best for you but there can be a better solution round the corner.
Walter Ego
14-Sep-11, 12:05
Hi Walter,
You quoted this from my post:
"........ Just be aware that the returns from this investment will be paid for by other electricity users and as time goes by your neighbours will come to resent your good fortune at their expense, particularly when their bills rise and you make a profit from them...." That was my words.
And you quoted this:
".. so the bottom line is that people who don't install renewable energy systems pay for those who do!" These were not my words but an extract from the Feed in Tariffs website http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/FITs/principles/funding/ (http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/FITs/principles/funding/)
So if we all install PV, we will all be poorer for it. Apart from the salesmen, installers, shareholders of associated companies etc.
Yup, I've definitely decided now.
Windy, I don't think you really give a hoot about how power is produced.
I believe you just want the cheapest possible electricity for yourself and cannot hack the thought that someone (ie: not you) is making money from electricity production.
The Caithness climate is more appropriate for wind turbines than solar panels, keep in mind that with solar panel manufacturers their figures for efficiency etc are usually the spec for ideal conditions, ie no cloud cover and sun high in the sky as it is at the equator. For practical info go see the Wick Harbour Authority and ask them for the statistics on the solar panels on the fish mart roof, they have been there for several years now.
Now if you are not going to produce electricity with your solar panels but instead get the kind that has liquid circulating in them for warming up your hot water, or prewarming before it reaches your actual boiler, you are looking at a completely different set of problems, but it might still be the more efficient way to go.
Above all, do your own research, what works for one may not be the best for you but there can be a better solution round the corner.
Unfortunately not everyone is going to be able to erect a wind turbine in their garden because there are rules regarding how close they can be to any building. Whereas most people have a roof that could accommodate PV panels.
keep in mind that with solar panel manufacturers their figures for efficiency etc are usually the spec for ideal conditions, ie no cloud cover and sun high in the sky as it is at the equator.
That may be true for the manufacturers of the panels but it is untrue for the installer who will give projected hours of sunshine data for the Caithness area which is based upon Met office satellite data thus allowing the customer to make an informed choice whether to buy or not.
roadbowler
14-Sep-11, 22:43
I don't see solar panels making even a shallow dent in the average household usage up here. I'm not prepared to say wind turbines do either from what I've seen. Solar arrays are still expensive. ie. an 80 watt mono-crystalline panel = £150 a piece give or take a few quid. I use solar, but, from autumnal equinox to vernal equinox, forget it. If you want lower electricity bills, using less electricity is the answer, whether it's through better efficiency or just plain using less.
ywindythesecond
14-Sep-11, 23:08
Unfortunately not everyone is going to be able to erect a wind turbine in their garden because there are rules regarding how close they can be to any building. Whereas most people have a roof that could accommodate PV panels.
I'm not sure there are any rules about how close a wind turbine can be to a building Gronnuck. There certainly should be rules, but I am not aware of any.
ywindythesecond
14-Sep-11, 23:16
Yup, I've definitely decided now.
Windy, I don't think you really give a hoot about how power is produced.
I believe you just want the cheapest possible electricity for yourself and cannot hack the thought that someone (ie: not you) is making money from electricity production.
Walter, if I wanted the cheapest electricity possible for me, I would install a small wind turbine. It would impinge on my neighbours, and they would subsidise my good fortune for 20 years, inflation proof, but I would have the cheapest electricity possible. Come to think of it, I could install the largest possible turbine I could in the space I have and stuff the neighbours.
However, I don't want the cheapest electricity possible. I like my neighbours, and I don't want to sponge off them through FiTs.
Before any turbine is erected over here on Lewis, even a small private one, clearance has to be given by council, buildings have to be quite a long way away, it is not a simple case of just erecting a turbine and using the electricity.
Know I cannot erect a turbine on the acre+ as not enough clearance with neighbours buildings.
PhotoVoltic is the way to go - neighbour has quite a few and is making quite a bit of money since installation even on very cloudy overcast days here on Lewis.
roadbowler
15-Sep-11, 11:08
I don't find that wind turbines impinge on the neighbours. I am a neighbour to quite a large turbine (2.5kw), it is only 4 meters from our boundary. Yes, it can be very noisy in high winds but, it's not particularly a horrible noise. Other than that, overall, I don't find it impinges on my existence at all. If the Merton rule starts to be applied more regularly in planning, residences and commercial properties all over Scotland will be forced to start using more on site renewable energy to make up a certain proportion of their energy by condition. Don't really see much wrong with that, it would make people think more about their usage and efficiency.
Back to the subject, does anyone here use one of these solar hot water systems? If so, do you find they are economical and does it work sufficiently in winter?
Do you have solar panels and if so what do you think of them? We've been approached by Solar Energy Savings about panels and are swithering as it's a lot of money to put out.We're told it is supposed to pay for itself in 6-8 years. Has anyone had dealings with them?
Their salesman came around today. Too much hard sell for our liking.
Doing a few Google and BT searches for their Glasgow office comes up with zilch, the same applies for the 360 degree money firm they deal with. I think they are just after our deposits and then will disappear rapidly. They do not appear in any of the lists of the MSC certified installers, so say goodbye to your feed in tarrif.
Having said that the idea of the solar panels and FIT looks OK and maybe pay out somehting - not the exaggerated figures they give of course but still not bad. However I would look up a reputable company that you initiate contact rather than a firm that cold calls you and seem very suspicious.
The head office which we did find eventually seems to be a small building shared with several other companies near Manchester Airport.
Their website tells you very little and has no contact details other than a single phone number for all areas.
My instinct would be to AVOID "Solar Energy Savings". I get the feeling it is a scam. Do not avoid the idea of solar panels but a company that is extremely difficult to find contact details for is not the best bet.
Can you really trust an ever changing governments ability to meet a 25 year commitment?
Can you really trust an ever changing governments ability to meet a 25 year commitment?
Yes because there is a legal requirement to have the Feed in Tariff for 25 years.
oldmarine
17-Sep-11, 16:27
I don't have the space for windmills or solar panels. Looks Like I'll have to go with what I currently have.
Do you have solar panels and if so what do you think of them? We've been approached by Solar Energy Savings about panels and are swithering as it's a lot of money to put out.We're told it is supposed to pay for itself in 6-8 years. Has anyone had dealings with them?
Give a serious thought to the long term reliability of these 'things'.
6-8 years...I doubt if they will last that long, particularly on a roof, exposed to the wind/ sun/ snow/ sleet etc.
And every Month they are coming out with new products which are much better, and I see that quite a number of these companies are going bankrupt...and where is your Warranty then!
Its is a rapidly evolving product which has not yet met the required standards.
Give a serious thought to the long term reliability of these 'things'.
6-8 years...I doubt if they will last that long, particularly on a roof, exposed to the wind/ sun/ snow/ sleet etc.
And every Month they are coming out with new products which are much better, and I see that quite a number of these companies are going bankrupt...and where is your Warranty then!
Its is a rapidly evolving product which has not yet met the required standards.
We shouldn't buy cars then or anything else for that matter for fear of it breaking down? :confused
No. that is not what I meant.....
Cars....vehicles have been around for a while...Solar is new.....
The reason I know about the Solar Companies, is that I invest/play the stock market and they regularly go bust.
You can have the very latest photovoltaic panels and modules and in 3 months they are obsolete and where are you then?! SOL.
I'm not saying all is bad...but I bought a solar panel for my sailboat and it cost quite a bit and it was pretty useless/ that was several years ago but I was reading on here about the cost average over I think it was 6/8 years.
And I know they 'ain't' lasting that long.
As it is a new 'science' they are getting better and better, but they are not there yet...in my humble opinion! And you know how humble that is.................
For those who want to invest in this.....Buyer Beware!
Well you either get busy doing it or keep waiting for something better to come along and never get to do it.
We have them here in quite an abundance......They are set on pedestals which turn and follow the sun....and we have lots of that.
Yes perhaps we should all invest in them, but so far they need lots of sun and as I know a wee bitty about Kaitness, I know how much sun there is.
I was just reading about a new company that is developing a newer version that needs less sun...but Caithness??? I was there for nearly 3 weeks and saw it twice ..in the same day!
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