View Full Version : A Warning to Jobseeker's.
When applying for jobs make sure your application letters are up to scratch............
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-14709433
C3..............:(
Oh look another one of those kids-today-we-were-so-much-better-in-my-time-threads.
What a sad indictment on how standards are falling. The truth is that probably many of those seemingly illiterate people are not lacking in brains, just an understanding of what is required to make an impression on possible employers. If they can't make themselves understood on paper, what chance do they have in a work situation?
Language is the way we understand each other and there has to be a universal standard acceptable to all and it just isn't happening in this age of texting and other shortcuts in communicating. These methods are ok among those who are just socialising with like minded people but does not work in everyday life where your written and spoken word is important and has to be understood by all.
English language teachers do their best but in an era where "being cool" is king, they are fighting a losing battle with many youngsters. Folks have to understand that they have to keep to the standards taught in schools. More publicity (as above) is necessary to get the message accross to those who use these shortcuts in working life that it is just not acceptable and is not an excuse for complaining that they are being unfairly discriminated against.
Even for people whose leaning is not towards spelling there are dictionaries and Thesauruses available to help and the more they use these the easier it becomes to communicating effectively.
Oh look another one of those kids-today-we-were-so-much-better-in-my-time-threads.
Not from me Rec, I just feel sad that kids cant get jobs because of their poor English. If you don't put the effort in at school then don't expect to get a good job later on, as the title says...it's just a warning. I was one of the lucky ones that had English and Maths "beaten" into me and I am glad that I did, the pain was well worth it for me later on in my life! If just one person takes note of this and improves their English and it helps them get a job later on then the thread would be well worth it!
C3.......:roll:;)
Oh look another one of those kids-today-we-were-so-much-better-in-my-time-threads.
This is the kind of statement that dismisses any attempt to help. Silly person!
Oh look another one of those kids-today-we-were-so-much-better-in-my-time-threads.
If we as a Society don't help those who are struggling then who will?
C3....[disgust]
I spse tht u woodnt fnd it rong if sm1 rote 2 u in shrthnd? imagin if u gt a lttr frm yr bnk mngr in ths wy u woodnt hv lss rspct fr hm? if ths wy of cmnctng ws usd u wood prbbly dsms hm as nts! tht s f u cood reed hs lttr! ;)
NickInTheNorth
30-Aug-11, 11:09
I spse tht u woodnt fnd it rong if sm1 rote 2 u in shrthnd? imagin if u gt a lttr frm yr bnk mngr in ths wy u woodnt hv lss rspct fr hm? if ths wy of cmnctng ws usd u wood prbbly dsms hm as nts! tht s f u cood reed hs lttr! ;)
If I received an SMS text message from a friend written like that I wouldn't even bother trying to read it. Mind you no friends of mine would send a text written like that!
If I received an SMS text message from a friend written like that I wouldn't even bother trying to read it. Mind you no friends of mine would send a text written like that!
Same here! And I am sure that not many people will be able to read it as I don't know the rules of texting!
NickInTheNorth
30-Aug-11, 11:21
Same here! And I am sure that not many people will be able to read it as I don't know the rules of texting!
and there was me thinking you looked fluent!
and there was me thinking you looked fluent!
You've found me out N.I.T.N., I'm just a big fake! ;)
Tugmistress
30-Aug-11, 11:26
It's nothing new. About 12 years ago when we lived south and a friends son was in high school, we saw his homework one evening and the spelling and punctuation was atrocious, his comment was that the teachers didn't care because if they understood what was being said then they ignored spelling mistakes! it seems this has been class room protocol for too long now and the kids are suffering.
I remember having spelling tests at junior school let alone senior!
If we as a Society don't help those who are struggling then who will?
Does the above apply when relating to people who come to the UK when escaping persecution in their own country?
I ask because of some of the recent posts you have made
e.g.
Too late, they are already here !!! (Now, how long before I get called a Racist)???
Orkneycadian said will Britain be telling the Lybians to come here and claim dole and be given free housing. I made the point that they are here already, well, a few of them at least. No harm intended in my post!!
weezer 316
30-Aug-11, 12:18
Anfield,
Please dont confuse him! Hes a nationalist, its ok to be a hypocrite or didnt you notice by the fact holyrood is now run by a party full of them?? All he wants to do is blame others for everything (tories, schools now, educational standards, green men of mars) not actually suggest fixes or take responsibility!
I would have filed that in the bin immediately.
I spse tht u woodnt fnd it rong if sm1 rote 2 u in shrthnd? imagin if u gt a lttr frm yr bnk mngr in ths wy u woodnt hv lss rspct fr hm? if ths wy of cmnctng ws usd u wood prbbly dsms hm as nts! tht s f u cood reed hs lttr! ;)
Spot on the above is a perfect example of what is wrong. Maybe all job applications should be via text, MSN or Facebook.
Does the above apply when relating to people who come to the UK when escaping persecution in their own country?
I ask because of some of the recent posts you have made
e.g.
Everyone deserves to be taught good English, no matter where they come from Anfield!! I would have thought that in the UK it is a Human Right!!
It is up to us, society as a whole, to do something about it like lobby our MP's and MSP's but most of all it is down to parents to make sure they give the best English help and advice to their children. I used to check all of my 3 kids homework and show them the error of their ways, thankfully all 3 have good careers and I like to think that my help and advice helped to get them where they are today!!!
C3........:cool:;)
Anfield,
Please dont confuse him! Hes a nationalist, its ok to be a hypocrite or didnt you notice by the fact holyrood is now run by a party full of them?? All he wants to do is blame others for everything (tories, schools now, educational standards, green men of mars) not actually suggest fixes or take responsibility!
It is a very very thin line between Nationalism and overt Racism.
Some posts on this forum cross this line
I've had some pretty crappy teaching in my time, but in those situation I've usually taught myself more than usual. Personal responsibility has to factor into it.
I think part of the problem is the 'feminisation' of education but again that's a different argument. The Linguistics semantic drift/natural language change argument would also be an interesting one to have.
orkneycadian
30-Aug-11, 18:08
Maybe I dreamt it, but is it not usually around this time of year, or a little earlier, that we get told on all fronts that those leaving school are brighter than ever on the strength of "record high" exam results?
Maybe I dreamt it, but is it not usually around this time of year, or a little earlier, that we get told on all fronts that those leaving school are brighter than ever on the strength of "record high" exam results?
That's grade inflation for you, it happens all over the world. Usually 'top' universities in the US where people pay a ton of money for education are the worst. I expect it to get worse in England when they increase fees, if you treat people like consumers they start complaining about the service.
It's not normal for 20% to get an A, if that's legitimately happening and people are actually getting smarter then the grading curve needs to be made harder.
On a more happy note my 13 year old male cousin has just achieved 2 A-grades in English - well done Jack!
That's grade inflation for you, it happens all over the world. Usually 'top' universities in the US where people pay a ton of money for education are the worst. I expect it to get worse in England when they increase fees, if you treat people like consumers they start complaining about the service.
It's not normal for 20% to get an A, if that's legitimately happening and people are actually getting smarter then the grading curve needs to be made harder.
Surely if the examination standard is amended then a higher gained in 2012 woudl be worth more than a higher gained in 2010, hardly a level playing field is it?
or to look at it another was you need three B's to obtain your chosen universtiy course, in 2010 you would have got the three B's but they change the standards and in 2012 you fail to get the results, again its hardly fair is it?
Goalposts are just that and cannot and should not be moved. Why not just create another tier of achievement like A++ or something?
Surely if the examination standard is amended then a higher gained in 2012 woudl be worth more than a higher gained in 2010, hardly a level playing field is it?
or to look at it another was you need three B's to obtain your chosen universtiy course, in 2010 you would have got the three B's but they change the standards and in 2012 you fail to get the results, again its hardly fair is it?
Agreed and it's already happening - looking back at my GCSEs I got decent grades but nothing particularly special or near what I was capable of achieving. I did what I had to to get the grades I needed to go a step higher and no more. I was perfectly capable of gaining A* - I was just a lazy teenager who only needed Cs to get into college so I put exactly that amount of effort in. If I had needed higher grades I would have worked harder... Kids nowadays have to do just that - there is such competition for places that the colleges/universities can be highly selective and as a result teens find themselves faced with needing to achieve higher grades to actually get anywhere.
Take my chosen career path when I was a youngster - veterinary medicine. When I was doing work experience the vet I worked for told me he got on the course with 4 D grades and 6 weeks work experience. Now adays you need 4 A's and work experiences in every field before you even get a look in. I was predicted 2 As and 2 Bs (despite getting 4 As in my mocks and coursework) so didn't get any offers at all - and there is no clearing in veterinary medicine.
My actual career now is graduate entry to the basic level, plus on the job training and a professional exam and then masters level for promotion. Yet only 20 years ago the job was HNC/D entry and on the job training for your professional exams and you didn't need to do any further degree to progress. People in my career are forced to do multiple degrees to progress, as well as on the job training and professional exams due to the goalposts being moved. It's not that the exams have been dumbed down, it is that you are expected to demonstrate knowledge to a higher degree before you can even get a foot in the door. It's not necessarily a bad thing...
NickInTheNorth
31-Aug-11, 11:42
It's just about impossible to finely judge attainment over time. Surely the best way is to award grades based on performance judged against your peer year group.
So no matter what percentage you get you are awarded a grade based on the result judged against your peers.
So the top say 10% get an A, next 10% a B etc, that way the results have some meaning.
Quite frankly evolution does not work at the rate required for the year on year improved results that have been seen for over 20 years now. If they were a true reflection of ability then we were all totally stupid when I took my exams 30 plus years ago.
It's just about impossible to finely judge attainment over time. Surely the best way is to award grades based on performance judged against your peer year group.
So no matter what percentage you get you are awarded a grade based on the result judged against your peers.
So the top say 10% get an A, next 10% a B etc, that way the results have some meaning.
Quite frankly evolution does not work at the rate required for the year on year improved results that have been seen for over 20 years now. If they were a true reflection of ability then we were all totally stupid when I took my exams 30 plus years ago.
That is a pretty decent idea Nickinthenorth, I like it
orkneycadian
31-Aug-11, 18:10
Surely if the examination standard is amended then a higher gained in 2012 woudl be worth more than a higher gained in 2010, hardly a level playing field is it??
As it stands at the moment, it appears that a Higher gained in 2010 will be worth more than one gained in 2012 - Not a level playing field either....
Before long, everyone will be coming along with Masters Degrees, even those who came bottom of the class.....
if it is the same examination then how can it be worth more?
To be honest there are lots of worthless degrees aroung also
orkneycadian
31-Aug-11, 19:16
But its not the same examination. If it were, then the pass rate may be even higher!
But its not the same examination. If it were, then the pass rate may be even higher!
No reason why it would unless you are suggesting that folk may cheat!
I meant that the examination would be of the same standard
orkneycadian
31-Aug-11, 22:46
So, do you think its to the same standard, given that pass rates are higher, yet employers are complaining with increasing frequency, that school leavers can't read, write, spell or count to an acceptable standard?
I havent seen these complaints of illiteracy or innumeracy amongst school leavers.
I would be interested to see their exam results if this is the case.
I have sat highers thirty years ago and then around ten years ago and neither was easy, if anything the standard was higher the second time around. What I did see was teachers and youngsters working hard to achieve good results. Youngsters today know that they have to work to achieve and well done to those who have studied and achieved the results they have earned.
oldmarine
01-Sep-11, 01:10
Sure good to be retired at 86 years of age with sufficient income to get by in my retired life. I would hate to be looking for a job today.
Exactly, many moons ago only the well heeled got to go to uni the rest left school at 15 and worked for a living, hence the school results were less important, nowadays every Tom, Dick and Harry goes to uni to study art or some other worthless degree.
Exactly, many moons ago only the well heeled got to go to uni the rest left school at 15 and worked for a living, hence the school results were less important, nowadays every Tom, Dick and Harry goes to uni to study art or some other worthless degree.
Sad to hear someone say that further education is worthless in any form even an art degree takes four years of hard work and study. The academic standard is no less than any other honours degree and requires both a portfolio and high grades to gain admittance to a course. Why denigrate the youngsters who work hard at school and then manage to gain their degree by saying what they have done is worthless. They may not all be well heeled and their name might be Tom, Dick or Harry but that does not change the value of thier achievement.
Unless I've missed it, no-one seems to have commented on this thread's title. "A Warning to Jobseeker's what ..?" Or does it mean A Warning to Jobseekers (plural) ? Why do so many people think anything with an s on the end needs an apostrophe? Where did this start? It appears everywhere.
Unless I've missed it, no-one seems to have commented on this thread's title. "A Warning to Jobseeker's what ..?" Or does it mean A Warning to Jobseekers (plural) ? Why do so many people think anything with an s on the end needs an apostrophe? Where did this start? It appears everywhere.Yes, my mistake Badger....This is what the warning is about, poor English and grammar. Perhaps that's why I struggled to get a job when I left school 50 years ago, my English and grammar were /are not up to scratch!!!
C3..........:roll:;)
Sad to hear someone say that further education is worthless in any form even an art degree takes four years of hard work and study. The academic standard is no less than any other honours degree and requires both a portfolio and high grades to gain admittance to a course. Why denigrate the youngsters who work hard at school and then manage to gain their degree by saying what they have done is worthless. They may not all be well heeled and their name might be Tom, Dick or Harry but that does not change the value of thier achievement.
Any degree is worthless unless it provides fruit at the end of it?
Any degree is worthless unless it provides fruit at the end of it?
No degree is worthless the education acquired to gain the degree is the fruit not the piece of paper. How the person makes use of this education is their choice but it does give youngsters a better chance of gaining employment in their chosen occupation, more so when jobs are hard to find.
No degree is worthless the education acquired to gain the degree is the fruit not the piece of paper. How the person makes use of this education is their choice but it does give youngsters a better chance of gaining employment in their chosen occupation, more so when jobs are hard to find.
I see your point here but if my kid did a degree that couldnt be utilised in their chosen occupation then I would be seriously displeased.
The degree chosen needs to be in your intended line of work or it is completely worthless, try getting a job in engineering with a performing arts degree it wont work.
The job/salary at the end of the day is the fruit.
I see your point here but if my kid did a degree that couldnt be utilised in their chosen occupation then I would be seriously displeased.
The degree chosen needs to be in your intended line of work or it is completely worthless, try getting a job in engineering with a performing arts degree it wont work.
The job/salary at the end of the day is the fruit.
When choosing a degree course then of course youngsters should be guided to take one which will be meaningful to their future. It is also very unlikely that they would gain a place on a course which would be irrelevant to them. When you spoke about degrees being worthless you did not say making a bad choice. What is important to one person may be worthless to another but that does not affect the worth of the degree.
oldmarine
01-Sep-11, 19:26
My first position of hire was as an Electronics Techincian related to my military experience. My second position was as an Electronics Engineer with the same company after I finished my education. Looks like I lucked out better than the average person in my pursuit of education and applying in the work force.
Tilly Teckel
01-Sep-11, 19:32
Just to return to the original topic of this thread, I offer a proofreading service at very reasonable rates: http://letseatgrandma.co.uk/ ;)
As for the worth of a degree in today's job market I believe the commitment required to complete a degree level course indicates to an employer that a person can see a job through from beginning to end; surely that has to be a positive, regardless of the degree subject matter?
(http://letseatgrandma.co.uk/)
Yes, my mistake Badger....This is what the warning is about, poor English and grammar. Perhaps that's why I struggled to get a job when I left school 50 years ago, my English and grammar were /are not up to scratch!!!
C3..........:roll:;)
Corrie - at least with you it was a typo and you know better :) . You do see it everywhere though and it puzzles me. Don't suppose kids today are taught punctuation any more - so long as they can "express themselves" that seems to be all that matters until they want a job.
It is a very very thin line between Nationalism and overt Racism.
Some posts on this forum cross this line
Not often I agree with you Anfield, but certainly do in this regard!
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