PDA

View Full Version : Field Marshal Keith's statue.



John Little
26-Aug-11, 11:24
Apparently Peterhead Council can find no money to restore their statue of Field Marshal Keith - one of Scotland's considerable roll of great commanders.

A people should be proud of their history if it holds people like Keith.

Someone has started a Facebook page to show support to save the statue.

If any Facebookers think Keith's memory deserves his statue, please 'like' this page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-The-Field-Marshal-Keith-Statue-Peterhead/118055711591399

golach
26-Aug-11, 11:33
Sadly his military genius did not do very much for the country of his birth, he left very quickly after the 1715 Jacobite rising

cramock
26-Aug-11, 11:46
in this day and age with the recession and cuts i don't think personally that statues are not the number 1 thing we should be spending money on!

i have nothing against statues they are a great thing to look at but instead of cutting the budget for hospitals and the likes this is the very thing they should be cutting the budget for, we can survive fine without a statue but hospitals and schools we cant do without, im sure if the statue is well loved by the community instead of getting together to try and force the council to restore the statue you should all chip in and restore it yourself you could probably do a better job than the council anyway and would be quicker too!

RecQuery
26-Aug-11, 11:56
I agree with the sentiments that it would be nice to maintain statues and monuments, but not at the expense of funding for other things. In the case of the statue or monument generating tourism revenue then the businesses benefiting should help with their upkeep.

cramock
26-Aug-11, 12:12
I agree with the sentiments that it would be nice to maintain statues and monuments, but not at the expense of funding for other things. In the case of the statue or monument generating tourism revenue then the businesses benefiting should help with their upkeep.

yes agree great idea, the businesses that benefit from the tourists that view the statues etc... should chip in to upkeep them

i like it rec sensible sensible

pmcd
26-Aug-11, 12:16
Let statues crumble and history become forgotten and there will be no country of which to be proud. Or bother to create again, or nurture, or build roads, schools and hospitals for.

After all, what is a nation but the sum of its peoples and their actions - both past and present. Past glories, victories and successes are the flywheel which provides the momentum for the present generation to study, cherish and emulate.

Or you can leave those empty hulks of shut churches, derelict cottages, and closed shops, and just give up and slink away through the piles of defacing litter into a bleak sunset.........

sids
26-Aug-11, 12:41
What's supposed to be wrong with the statue, that requires money?

RecQuery
26-Aug-11, 13:20
Let statues crumble and history become forgotten and there will be no country of which to be proud. Or bother to create again, or nurture, or build roads, schools and hospitals for.

After all, what is a nation but the sum of its peoples and their actions - both past and present. Past glories, victories and successes are the flywheel which provides the momentum for the present generation to study, cherish and emulate.

Or you can leave those empty hulks of shut churches, derelict cottages, and closed shops, and just give up and slink away through the piles of defacing litter into a bleak sunset.........

And on the pedestal these words appear --
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains.

pmcd
26-Aug-11, 14:01
I agree. If you like a "colossal wreck, boundless and bare", just keep rootin' for inertia, the culture of snapshot gratification, and effortless achievement. Then indeed will "the lone and level sands stretch far away".

Me, I'm looking forward to the erection of a jeely piece statue of the Baboon of Brigadoon sat astride an Edinburgh tram, his windswept remaining locks flowing freely in the wind generated by 10,000 partially efficient cash-cow wind turbines, serenaded by a massive pipe band playing the only National Anthem which cannot accurately be played by its own national instrument.

Wake Up Scotland! Love the Real Heritage! Whisky! Tartan! Shortbread! McGonagall! Oor Wullie and The Broons!

John Little
26-Aug-11, 15:11
Published: 11/11/2010



A prolonged campaign to fund the restoration of a landmark north-east sculpture has so far drawn a blank.
The statue of Prussian soldier Field Marshal Keith has loomed over Broad Street at Peterhead for 140 years.
The prominent bronze artwork was installed as a tribute to a member of Peterhead’s founding family, but its condition has deteriorated over the years, thanks to gulls flying overhead and fumes from passing cars.
Last year, local councillor Sam Coull, who is Keith’s biographer, called on Aberdeenshire Council and the town’s Feuars’ managers to help pay for the restoration, but was told there were no funds available.
German-based discount supermarket chain Lidl was also approached, but was unable to help.
It was thought Keith’s own links with Germany may have moved the retailer into action.
Keith was killed in the battle of Hochkirk, Germany, and 2008 marked the 250th anniversary of his death.
Now, Mr Coull hopes that organisations outwith the north-east, including the Scottish Arts Council, may be able to assist.
“There are suggestions that the council may have a pot of money for this kind of thing,” he said.
“But it looks like we will have to go outside of Aberdeenshire for funding.
“The statue features on nearly every Peterhead postcard, but it is just being left to deteriorate. Cleaning it will be a big operation. I imagine it would have to be temporarily removed while it is worked on.”
It is estimated the job could cost about £60,000.
The statue was presented as a gift to the people of Peterhead by Wilhelm I, King of Prussia, in August 1868.
Keith was born at the castle of Inverugie, near Peterhead, in 1696 and became a Jacobite outlaw and fought with the Prussian army. He was a descendent of George Keith, the fifth Earl Marischal of Scotland, who founded Peterhead – then known as Peter Ugie – in 1593.





http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2003829http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/assets/img/advertising/174x150_BookOnline.gif (http://bookadsonline.ajl.co.uk/book/step_1.php?siteid=3&sid=)
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/assets/img/advertising/yourlife copy.gif (http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/)


Sic transit gloria mundi.

John Little
26-Aug-11, 15:22
Sadly his military genius did not do very much for the country of his birth, he left very quickly after the 1715 Jacobite rising

The large numbers of Scots in the Prussian army, denied an outlet for their military ambitions because they did not wish to serve a Hanoverian King, and the honour in which they and he were held throughout Europe? Were I a romantic I might say that he added glory to Scotland's reputation and filled the world with admiration of her martial qualities. A master strategist and tactician, a great general and a great Scot.

But hey - what price romantics these days?

History, obviously, is bunk...

sandyr1
26-Aug-11, 16:15
And on the pedestal these words appear --
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains.

Interesting....was just reading Oxymandias and 'The decline of Empires and the Grand Arrogance of Rulers'.

And Adam Smith famously commenting ...........There's a lot of Ruin in a Nation!

golach
26-Aug-11, 16:55
John Little, many Scots served as mercenaries all over Europe in dark ages, of all ranks, few are recognised. Even in 1936 to 1939, the International Brigade fighting in Spain had nearly 550 Scots, how many of them have statues build to them?

" Daniel Gray’s “Homage to Caledonia” is about the Scottish men and women who mobilised against fascism in the Spanish Civil War of 1936-39 – either by going to fight in Spain itself, or by building support ‘on the home front’ for the anti-fascist forces.
The Scottish desire to intervene in Spain, writes Gray, was “typical, though in its scale unique.” Around 2,400 British nationals fought in the International Brigade in Spain. Although Scots accounted for only 10% of the British population, over 20% of British volunteers – just under 550 – were Scottish. And many of them never returned."

John Little
26-Aug-11, 17:01
I would not deny what you say. Scots fought all over the world - and in Gustavus Adolphus's time they probably saved European Protestantism.

But how many had a career as distinguished as this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Francis_Edward_Keith

And the point surely is that no-one is proposing to erect a statue but to restore one which already exists.

orkneycadian
26-Aug-11, 19:50
If any Facebookers think Keith's memory deserves his statue, please 'like' this page.

Do "Facebookers" ever get out to see things like statues?

sandyr1
26-Aug-11, 20:15
Do "Facebookers" ever get out to see things like statues?

Aye......Weel Sed! And a Mercenary...(Interesting reading)...He opined that his Rewards were not commensurate with His Merits....

ducati
26-Aug-11, 20:16
Let statues crumble and history become forgotten and there will be no country of which to be proud. Or bother to create again, or nurture, or build roads, schools and hospitals for.

After all, what is a nation but the sum of its peoples and their actions - both past and present. Past glories, victories and successes are the flywheel which provides the momentum for the present generation to study, cherish and emulate.

Or you can leave those empty hulks of shut churches, derelict cottages, and closed shops, and just give up and slink away through the piles of defacing litter into a bleak sunset.........

Lighten up dude, it's only a statue! :lol:

iain
26-Aug-11, 22:29
All things Keith deserve large amounts of money spent on them ;)

John Little
27-Aug-11, 10:07
So... a man in a uniformed service, wishing outlet for his ambitions that he cannot have in his native land, leaves and enlists in the uniformed services of another country where he works for pay. This is a 'mercenary' a word with pejorative overtones that sort of detracts from his achievements.

Are we to take this as a rule for all such men?

Especially if they would like a payrise?

sandyr1
27-Aug-11, 15:46
As Golach stated, he quickly took his leave of the UK..... I am not a History buff and obviously I won't/can't match my skills in that category with you or others of your like, but when one goes as a Mercenary(widely acclaimed as such) to a foreign land to Fight and Kill for money, to me it it perhaps smells a bit. Makes one think of Sir Mark et cetera!

As you are promoting the 'Facebook' situation, this again seems to be an exercise in Futility....35 'hits' when 'Heidi' The Cross Eyed Possum got 47,000 'hits'. Does that go to a credible issue!

Many of us leave and go on to another life, but those who 'fight and Kill' for money in another Country? I admit I don't know who or what he was fighting for, but it is not particularly loyal to his Country.

I think perhaps the local Council or whoever won't fund the restorations maybe knows what the future holdeth. I understand that much cuts have been proposed but 90% have not yet been initiated. There are tough times coming and before someone says that I am slagging the UK, The Province of Ontario is approx $250 Billion in the red with little hope of solving the near term problem. Methinks there will be a lot more 'projects' put off around the World!

AND it would be nice to hear from those who are reluctant to Post. The more thoughts the better!

John Little
27-Aug-11, 17:26
So it follows then that in order to be a 'great Scot' you must remain loyal to the country of your birth.

And no matter how dazzling your achievements, how Hibernian your antecedents, how great your victories or how much of a genius you were, your native land shall not have any further interest in you or what you did.

However pronounced your brogue.

Well now there's a pity.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to fulfill it"

sandyr1
27-Aug-11, 17:34
So it follows then that in order to be a 'great Scot' you must remain loyal to the country of your bir

And no matter how dazzling your achievements, how Hibernian your antecedents, how great your victories or how much of a genius you were, your native land shall not have any further interest in you or what you did.

However pronounced your brogue.

Well now there's a pity.

That is not what I said/ or, not what I meant to say..............Mercenary conjures up 'distaste'.
I don't even know if he was a genius. He failed in Scotland, he also failed in far flung fields!

Of course there is Donald Trump, and Richard Branson who have bankrupted more Companies than they have had success with......who knows what success is? It is a flighty fella!

John Little
27-Aug-11, 17:45
I don't even know if he was a genius.

Say you so?

He failed in Scotland, he also failed in far flung fields!


So a man who rises from nothing, makes fortune and rank in the Russian service then attains the rank of field marshal in the Prussian army, of which he was the real commander, is a failure.

Under Frederick the Great he creates an army that can beat anything 3 times its size.

He leads that army, with his adopted King and defeats a confederation composed of Russia, Austro-Hungary, France, Saxony and most of the `german states, not once but repeatedly.

He declined to take part in the '45 because he thought it a hare-brained venture.

He dies in battle and is buried by his enemies with full military honours and is mourned as a hero on both sides. He is then exhumed and reburied in the garrison church in Berlin with full military honours.

Frederick the Great erects a statue to him.

But he was a failure then?

Some failure.

sandyr1
27-Aug-11, 18:33
Failure...I never uttered the word.
'Mercenary' as he was known, is the operative word.

And lauding someone like Frederick The Great who had his own set of problems!

Kim Jong ll is said to have 'aced' all 18 holes at golf on his first round! People believe that.....Pinch o' salt ma' mannie!

But back to the costs of refurbishing the Statue/ A decision was made and likely it will stick unless private money comes up.

John Little
27-Aug-11, 18:50
He failed in Scotland, he also failed in far flung fields!

True - you never said 'failure'.

As to the statue's future - that is precisely why some folk have set a Facebook page up.

To 'like' it costs nothing.

And if it helps a nano- bit to save the statue, then why not?

ducati
27-Aug-11, 19:07
So Sandy, he was an idiot! Not only shouldn't the statue be saved, it shouldn't have been erected in the first place. :mad:

ducati
27-Aug-11, 20:22
And while we are on the subject, I want rid of the statues to General Wade. He was an idiot too. The Romans built the roads in England and they have Watling Street or the M6 M56 as we like to call it, in Scotland we have the A836 :Razz

sandyr1
28-Aug-11, 00:03
So Sandy, he was an idiot! Not only shouldn't the statue be saved, it shouldn't have been erected in the first place. :mad:

Na..na......But it would appear there comes a time when we have to get our priorities straight. Spend "60,000 pounds on a Statue, the Toon Library, or help for the poor. We cannot do it all.....Money does not grow free on trees....It has to be earned/ budged for those priorities in life..... We are beginning a sad state of affairs with our finances...maybe, just maybe someone will come up with a solution.

For those of you had had to deal with a budget.....If you have only so much money one has to spend it wisely. If one spends extra on one thing it has to come off something else......

From my perspective/ the way I dealt with it.....If we had to spend $1million on a 'project', then we had to find that money somewhere else. From another part of our organization. So one day someone says we need 60,000 pounds....where does it come from?

And no Duc. I didn't say he was an idiot. He was a paid Mercenary.....Perhaps as brave as one could be....who knows which fable we read!

John Little
28-Aug-11, 07:40
Sure - totally correct. Our political masters have much better ideas for £60,000....


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23802360-mp-golden-couple-andrew-mackay-and-julie-kirkbride-to-repay-pound-60000.do

pmcd
28-Aug-11, 09:01
Oh dear, John! "Our political masters". I hope not. I thought we at least had a small say in electing them to serve us nobly and honestly for the good of all.

If not, see the impossible happen. The end of State Communism 80/90s. The Arab Spring of 2011. The world turned upside down. Even the English riots - not on the same political level, but a barometer of discontent.

We are, as the Irish curse tells us, doomed to live in interesting times. If it means the end of intrusive, patronising, and social engineering government, and instead a house full of elected representatives who do what we tell them to do, then the future could be bright, or even orange!

In the meantime, statues still look better than most urban architecture......

John Little
28-Aug-11, 09:43
Ah but Fiscal utilitarianism is the dominant creed of the day where success, genius and glory is measured against playing golf, sailing, motor racing and filthy lucre, so History segues effortlessly into 'myth' that has no further importance.

This is the idea of our age.

So the average feels impelled, even entitled to pass judgement on the great dead and find their feats not worth remembering; does not know what they did, does not care and will not bother to find out

This being so, let us sweep away all graven images and let the new religion be philistine and iconoclast.

pmcd
28-Aug-11, 09:47
Ozzy Osbourne or Ozymandias? Discuss.

ducati
28-Aug-11, 09:50
And that tw21t on the top of e hill at Golspie.

He was a real hero :roll:

ducati
28-Aug-11, 09:58
So a man who rises from nothing,

He was born in a freekin' castle!

just to show I am paying attention :lol:

gleeber
28-Aug-11, 09:59
This is the idea of our age.

So the average feels impelled, even entitled to pass judgement on the great dead and find their feats not worth remembering; does not know what they did, does not care and will not bother to find out

This being so, let us sweep away all graven images and let the new religion be philistine and iconoclast.
I think your being a bit harsh there John. Mind you I didnt know it until I looked up the meaning of some of your words. :confused
Its good to know the history of individuals but their deeds are of little consequence to modern man other than those with an interest in history. No man could ever be so important to have achieved whatever they have acheived, on their own.
Sir William Smith was the founder of the Boys Brigade and he was born in Thurso. There's a plaque at his birthplace at Pennyland, and thats plenty. I dont think the community would ever not have a plaque there.
The future of the statue of the field marshall is entirely up to the people of Peterhaed.
Facebook seems to be getting too big for its boots.

gleeber
28-Aug-11, 10:01
He was born in a freekin' castle!

just to show I am paying attention :lol:
Aye, but he was nothing before that.

John Little
28-Aug-11, 11:44
He was born in a freekin' castle!

just to show I am paying attention :lol:

Not enough. Read on.

His family lost everything - estates, money and were obliged to flee.

He had nothing.

John Little
28-Aug-11, 11:52
Ozzy Osbourne or Ozymandias? Discuss.

Osbourne definitely.

Quod demonstrandum.

But thank goodness that not all Scots share that view of their country's past.

http://heritage.scotsman.com/robertthebruce/City-carves-a-thank-you.3476336.jp

golach
28-Aug-11, 12:41
I am begining to think John Little must be the Orgs modern version of Don Quixote, he like to ride around the Heelans tilting at his modern day windmills, Dounreay's dome, now Statues in Peterhead, I wonder who your Sancho Panza is?

John Little
28-Aug-11, 12:48
Today's motto from my calendar; a quote from Albert Schweitzer. (Boring dead guy - not worth remembering...and certainly does not deserve a statue...)

'An optimist is a person who sees a green light everywhere, whilst the pessimist sees only the red stoplight. The truly wise person is colourblind.'

Seems to me there's an awfu' lot of red lights up there.

Could spend £20,000 on such as this for Thurso castle...
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/photos/peer-asked-keep-controversial-graffiti-mural-walls-familys-photo-112436296.html

sandyr1
28-Aug-11, 14:02
Ah but Fiscal utilitarianism is the dominant creed of the day where success, genius and glory is measured against playing golf, sailing, motor racing and filthy lucre, so History segues effortlessly into 'myth' that has no further importance.

This is the idea of our age.

So the average feels impelled, even entitled to pass judgement on the great dead and find their feats not worth remembering; does not know what they did, does not care and will not bother to find out

This being so, let us sweep away all graven images and let the new religion be philistine and iconoclast.

Are you playing fancy games with Names etc...Do you mean the band or the anti Capitalists? Geeze you will have to explain 'ursell' better!

And who are the Average/ Us who comment on such things?

sandyr1
28-Aug-11, 14:06
I am begining to think John Little must be the Orgs modern version of Don Quixote, he like to ride around the Heelans tilting at his modern day windmills, Dounreay's dome, now Statues in Peterhead, I wonder who your Sancho Panza is?

My money is still on Heidi the cross eyed possum! 47,000 hits!

John Little
28-Aug-11, 14:40
My money is still on Heidi the cross eyed possum! 47,000 hits!

Over 100,000 I think...

Here is your idol in action...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNTHqxRQ49w

sandyr1
28-Aug-11, 14:56
Over 100,000 I think...

Here is your idol in action...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNTHqxRQ49w

Thankx!!! It does throw a wrench(spanner) into some of our thinking tho'.