View Full Version : £600 a week and a Toy-Boy thrown in as well!!
Well, do you think this Woman deserves more benefit help?
I mean, how do we think she can manage on £600 per week, poor soul that she is!
I think we should start an E-petition to give her more benefits so she can feed and clothe her offspring!!
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/264670/264670
C3....just off to find myself a rich Widow.....:eek::cool:;)
I would like to give my opinion about her corrie but the moderator has a pick on me and i gota horrid red blob from him for giving my opinion recently so I would love to tell you what i think about that scrounger but i better be good and say nothing:)
I would like to give my opinion about her corrie but the moderator has a pick on me and i gota horrid red blob from him for giving my opinion recently so I would love to tell you what i think about that scrounger but i better be good and say nothing:)
Oh no.....You been a norty Gal Doreen????...Shame on you indeed....:lol:
What you need is a 19 yr old Toyboy, 10 kids and then complain you haven't got enuf to live on....it works for some doesn't it?
C3.......:eek:
Do you think if i gave up my jobs they would give me six hundred pound a week i dont think so how people can wake up every day sitting on their backside doing nothing and get it handed to them they should be disgusted with themselves wonder if she heard about a thing called contraception obvously not shame on her.
its so annoying there are real people in need out there than can not get nothing my daughter had her appendix out when she was younger and could not get any sick pay as she had not paid enough into the system as she had only left school for a year . yet some people never work and get everything , she still had bills to pay but had nothing for 6 weeks good old bank of mum and dad, i know a lot that use that bank ha ha
morvenview
20-Aug-11, 19:48
Nothing that a Smith and Weston cant fix
Oh no i gave my opinion thats me said i was gonna say nothing but could not stop mysel so if you dont see any more posts corrie the moderator has bumped me of so its nice knowing you.:lol:
Oh no i gave my opinion thats me said i was gonna say nothing but could not stop mysel so if you dont see any more posts corrie the moderator has bumped me of so its nice knowing you.:lol:
Dont worry Doreen, I will look after you and make sure the Mods dont bump you off....You are too valuable to this Forum!!
C3.....:roll:;)
Do you think if i gave up my jobs they would give me six hundred pound a week i dont think so how people can wake up every day sitting on their backside doing nothing and get it handed to them they should be disgusted with themselves wonder if she heard about a thing called contraception obvously not shame on her. i agree with you doreen so does most of the country the trouble is her ten kids will think its ok to do the same
Dont worry Doreen, I will look after you and make sure the Mods dont bump you off....You are too valuable to this Forum!!
C3.....:roll:;)Aw thank you corrie you get him told ;)
i agree with you doreen so does most of the country the trouble is her ten kids will think its ok to do the sameAnd shame on the kids but if thats the way they have been brought up their not going to bother either all my children are grown up now but they all work and im proud they are contributing to society ive heard a few of their friends bragging with all the benefits they get why should they go out and work oh how hard it is for me to keep my mouth shut Grr[evil]
It's not money she needs, it's her punani that needs stitched up, and also a slap for giving her kids awful names. :roll:
well th eahemm "punani" has been done.. grins.. she made news already for a 10 min sterilization
and i thought the same thing about the names and thats saying a lot when im called Brandy!
my mum had seven kids and my god parents had seven kids.. wow, to have gotten money for us!!!
i can remember my god mum stayed home with the kids so my dog father worked 3 jobs to make ends meet!
well th eahemm "punani" has been done.. grins.. she made news already for a 10 min sterilization
and i thought the same thing about the names and thats saying a lot when im called Brandy!
my mum had seven kids and my god parents had seven kids.. wow, to have gotten money for us!!!
i can remember my god mum stayed home with the kids so my dog father worked 3 jobs to make ends meet!
What did he do Brandy? Round up sheep? Pull a slead? and er sniff out explosives? he he
dragonfly
21-Aug-11, 10:33
lol Ducati!
back to topic, the likes of that should have all benefits cut until they make the effort and go and get a job, even a part time one to show they are making a contribution to society, then and only then should tax/child allowance payments be reinstated, it would be amazing how easy they would find it to get a job. Bet she's got money for fags and bingo tho!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrr!!! oh and the must have blackberry or iphone!!
It's not money she needs, it's her punani that needs stitched up, and also a slap for giving her kids awful names. :roll:Ive heard it being called many things but that made me crease myself punani excellent word for it thats all i will remember now hope i never have probs in that department and have to go to the doc imagine saying erm its my punani lol.:lol:
toffee_pie
21-Aug-11, 11:02
Well, do you think this Woman deserves more benefit help?
I mean, how do we think she can manage on £600 per week, poor soul that she is!
I think we should start an E-petition to give her more benefits so she can feed and clothe her offspring!!
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/264670/264670
C3....just off to find myself a rich Widow.....:eek::cool:;)
her pu$$y needs to be sewed up so she cant bring up any more kids, who no doubt, will follow her moms illustrious career path
lol, just seen i was beaten to it..
"Shardonnaie" aawwww bless!
NickInTheNorth
21-Aug-11, 11:30
As always I am very happy to be vilified :)
Firstly, we only have the story as told by a right wing tabloid newspaper, so there is an audience to feed, and therefore it should not be assumed that we have a full and accurate story.
There first really interesting statement is that she gets £3120 per child per year.
Utter tripe. She may get a total payment of £31200, but the rent for a 4 bed council house in Gillingham is about £800 per month, so the money she has to "spend" from the total income figure given can swiftly be reduced to £21600.
Then there is council tax say £1000
So £20600 per year for everything else.
So keeping to nice round numbers she has £400 per week to feed and clothe a family of 12. Lets say £20 per week for heat / light / phone.
£380 per week so that gives about £4.50 per person per day.
How many of you self righteous individuals would like to bring up a family of 10 kids on that amount of money? It can be done, but far from easy. It takes hard work, know how, and dedication. From what we see in the article those are not likely to be characteristics with which the unfortunate woman is imbued.
So do I think her getting £31200 per year in various benefit payments i right?
A big loud YES to that one. In fact she should probably get more than that.
Do I think society has served the woman well.
A big loud NO to hat one.
Where were the social workers when she was repeatedly pregnant with no means of support (or perhaps in the past there has been good support - a wealthy partner perhaps?)
Why do we not have the right as a society to limit childbearing to "reasonable" numbers unless there is the ability to pay for them (again we don't know the history, and there could have been the means previously)?
Do we as a society really want to see a family of 12 people living on the streets and begging? If Dragonfly's course of action was followed that would be the more likely outcome than someone suddenly finding a job. Anyone that has any experience of human resources must surely know that a woman of 34 that has never worked, or a 19 year old "man" that has never worked are hardly going to top of the list of potential employees.
Yes something needs to be done about this type of situation, but what is needed is not knee jerk reactions with 20/20 hindsight. What is needed is for this society to recognise the problems that can arise in a society which quite rightly has a benefits safety net. It needs to be proactive in the education of people like this woman and her equally feckless partners. It needs to ensure that people know about their responsibilities, not just their rights. Society also needs to ensure it has the powers required to make sure those who seek to take up those benefits that are available also take up their responsibilities.
Should this woman have been allowed to breed in the unchecked manor that she has - quite clearly no.
But try to get legislation passed that has any limit on peoples rights to procreate and see how far you get :)
Oh and just in case anyone should think that we could kick the adults out on the street and take the kids into care that would costs about £25000 per week for this little brood!
dragonfly
21-Aug-11, 11:52
Sorry NITH but I stand by what I posted, she chose to have that many children, and why should/would social services be involved unless she is of limited understanding as to why she is having all these children by different partners or is having problems in raising these children?
Not sure why my past profession has been brought into your post but in Gillingham I am sure there are far more opportunities to find part time work whether you have previous experience of work or not, after all after having that many children I am sure she has plenty cleaning experience or she could even volunteer at one of the charities she is trying to get clothing from for a few hours a week, giving something back and increasing her chances of employability at the same time.
edit to add, just had a look on her facebook profile and not suprised to see that Moira has downloaded the "facebook for iphone" application! she can afford a luxury like that but not clothes for her children????
Curiously no mention of the fathers and their responsibility in all this.
Utter tripe. She may get a total payment of £31200, but the rent for a 4 bed council house in Gillingham is about £800 per month, so the money she has to "spend" from the total income figure given can swiftly be reduced to £21600.
Then there is council tax say £1000
So £20600 per year for everything else.
So keeping to nice round numbers she has £400 per week to feed and clothe a family of 12. Lets say £20 per week for heat / light / phone.
£380 per week so that gives about £4.50 per person per day.
How many of you self righteous individuals would like to bring up a family of 10 kids on that amount of money? It can be done, but far from easy.
!
Thats just the point, if she cant afford them she shouldnt have kept popping them out like a toaster.
To hell with the fathers, I mean they're dicks and I'm willing to guess she's hitting them up for child support anyway. Ignoring all that though she has to take some personal responsibility.
I'm a fairly liberal guy on most things, and as Nick said this reeks of right-wing sensationalism. That being said my own opinion on stuff like this is that I have no problem supporting kids that were conceived before you went on benefits, but having children aren't a right and why should everyone else have to support kids you conceived after going on benefits.
NickInTheNorth
21-Aug-11, 12:50
Thats just the point, if she cant afford them she shouldnt have kept popping them out like a toaster.
The point is we live in a society where the benefits system allows it to happen. We are big on rights, not so big on responsibilities. That is why I suggest the balance needs to be redressed.
Given that she has 10 kids, and is never going to get a job what does anyone suggest should be done?
The reality is that the choice that needs to be made is continue paying benefits at current levels - alternatively put them on the street and let them beg.
The current boyfriend would likely be out of there like a shot if he had to work - and there's no way of making him stay. He's not going to pay anything for the upkeep of his kids 'cos he'll just be signing on and getting his own house, so the costs to society will increase.
If she gets a part time job she will then be entitled to more benefits not less, for a start there will be working tax credits, there will also be child care payments - again the costs to society will increase.
Accept reality, and try and get the system changed for the future.
So Nick in the north your just as much saying she may as well sit at home and stay on benefits because if she goes to work she will earn more benefits child tax and other benifits well would you not think of her better if she was going out and doing somthing for society instead of getting it handed to her. And its ridicules that people can go on and on bringing kids into the world knowing they cant afford it.
NickInTheNorth
21-Aug-11, 17:44
So Nick in the north your just as much saying she may as well sit at home and stay on benefits because if she goes to work she will earn more benefits child tax and other benifits well would you not think of her better if she was going out and doing somthing for society instead of getting it handed to her. And its ridicules that people can go on and on bringing kids into the world knowing they cant afford it.
I'm pointing out the reality of the situation.
I would much prefer that she went out to work, I think it would be of immense benefit to her, to all her children, to the current and doubtless future live in boyfriends, and most of all society. However I also accept that it would cost the taxpayer more is she does so. Most posters on this thread seem to think she already gets enough so I'm not sure everyone would want her getting more...
I suggested that the system should be changed to prevent people bringing more and more mouths into the world to be fed, housed, clothed etc. at public expense. No one seems interested in discussing that, I wonder why...
I know that the hang 'em flog 'em starve 'em brigade don't much like reality, but that is the way it is.
This woman did not create the system, she merely benefits from it. If you are dismayed at what she gets then get in touch with your MP and ask him or her to get the system changed.
Tell me how you suggest the system could be improved. What checks and balances can be put in place to improve matters. But please test all your suggestions against cold hard reality before making them. Any changes need to work in the real world.
Remember this poor vacuous breeding machine is not really the problem, she is merely a symptom of the broken benefits / wages / tax system in this country. As long as the government and the media can make scapegoats like her look bad then it stops the public looking to closely at the system itself.
A lot of what your saying is right but how on earth you get these people to stop havig child after child they know that thats the easy way of getting benefits and the taxpayers has got to stump up for it so some people are quiete happy to sit back firing child after child out them and have no guilt .My daughter has worked since she was 15 and is now 27 and has been made redundent she has two little ones 6 and 2 she has paid her taxes all that years and now gets very little help and actually feels ashamed to get benefits which is buttons then you hear of people have never lifted a hand and brag about how much benefits they get [evil]
NickInTheNorth
21-Aug-11, 18:13
A lot of what your saying is right but how on earth you get these people to stop havig child after child they know that thats the easy way of getting benefits and the taxpayers has got to stump up for it so some people are quiete happy to sit back firing child after child out them and have no guilt .My daughter has worked since she was 15 and is now 27 and has been made redundent she has two little ones 6 and 2 she has paid her taxes all that years and now gets very little help and actually feels ashamed to get benefits which is buttons then you hear of people have never lifted a hand and brag about how much benefits they get [evil]
Well there's always Depo-Provera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depo-Provera), a long acting reversible hormonal contraceptive birth control drug that is injected every 3 months.
It would need legislation, and I guess it would only be used after someone shows a total dis-regard for "guidance" but it could done with sufficient political will.
As always I am very happy to be vilified :)
Firstly, we only have the story as told by a right wing tabloid newspaper, so there is an audience to feed, and therefore it should not be assumed that we have a full and accurate story.
There first really interesting statement is that she gets £3120 per child per year.
Utter tripe. She may get a total payment of £31200, but the rent for a 4 bed council house in Gillingham is about £800 per month, so the money she has to "spend" from the total income figure given can swiftly be reduced to £21600.
Then there is council tax say £1000
So £20600 per year for everything else.
So keeping to nice round numbers she has £400 per week to feed and clothe a family of 12. Lets say £20 per week for heat / light / phone.
£380 per week so that gives about £4.50 per person per day.
How many of you self righteous individuals would like to bring up a family of 10 kids on that amount of money? It can be done, but far from easy. It takes hard work, know how, and dedication. From what we see in the article those are not likely to be characteristics with which the unfortunate woman is imbued.
So do I think her getting £31200 per year in various benefit payments i right?
A big loud YES to that one. In fact she should probably get more than that.
Do I think society has served the woman well.
A big loud NO to hat one.
Where were the social workers when she was repeatedly pregnant with no means of support (or perhaps in the past there has been good support - a wealthy partner perhaps?)
Why do we not have the right as a society to limit childbearing to "reasonable" numbers unless there is the ability to pay for them (again we don't know the history, and there could have been the means previously)?
Do we as a society really want to see a family of 12 people living on the streets and begging? If Dragonfly's course of action was followed that would be the more likely outcome than someone suddenly finding a job. Anyone that has any experience of human resources must surely know that a woman of 34 that has never worked, or a 19 year old "man" that has never worked are hardly going to top of the list of potential employees.
Yes something needs to be done about this type of situation, but what is needed is not knee jerk reactions with 20/20 hindsight. What is needed is for this society to recognise the problems that can arise in a society which quite rightly has a benefits safety net. It needs to be proactive in the education of people like this woman and her equally feckless partners. It needs to ensure that people know about their responsibilities, not just their rights. Society also needs to ensure it has the powers required to make sure those who seek to take up those benefits that are available also take up their responsibilities.
Should this woman have been allowed to breed in the unchecked manor that she has - quite clearly no.
But try to get legislation passed that has any limit on peoples rights to procreate and see how far you get :)
Oh and just in case anyone should think that we could kick the adults out on the street and take the kids into care that would costs about £25000 per week for this little brood!
The year is 1972, my dad died aged 45, leaving my mum to raise 6 of 8 kids, the two oldest being 18 and 16 and having left school, my youngest sibling was aged 3 then so hadn't started school. Because my mum was 3 months short of being 41 she didn't qualify for the full widows pension, so whatever it was at that time, plus family allowance, was what she had to raise us on. Also, she didn't get any help from social services regarding clothing grants, furniture grants etc. because of what we began to realise was two dirty words: widows pension, as well as my mum being too proud to ask for help anyway. The times she did ask for help, as soon as she mentioned those words she was automatically refused, even though she didn't get the full amount pension. And my dad had worked all his life paying taxes, for what? For my mum to be continually whammied by every bloody government until my youngest sibling had left school, by which time my mum had a part-time job but paid more tax because of, you guessed it, the widows pension. But she never complained, she was raised to live on what you had, not what you think you should get. We were clothed, fed and had a roof over our heads, We didn't have any luxuries, but then again, neither did most people.
I don't care whether a story is published in a right wing, left wing or centre supporting paper, similar stories surface every so often; I'm sick of people sponging from society when they've contributed sod all to it and expect the tax payer to fund the lifestyle they think they are entitled to.
I can see both sides to the story, society could and should do more to help people in her position but giving them more money isn't the answer, a radical overhaul of the 'system' is needed, even if that means limiting the number of kids a woman/couple can have. Until then it will continually be a bugbear to the taxpayer.
Quite unbelievable....How long has this been going on?
I think this couple win first prize as Britains biggest scroungers and wow....................... what a lovely house they have.
They win the booby prize though for naming their kids.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-470335/Jobless-couple-12-children-given-500-000-home.html
C3.......[disgust]:roll:
Bobinovich
21-Aug-11, 18:44
I'm sure it's been mentioned before but what about limiting benefits for only the first 2 or 3 children? If you can afford to have more kids then by all means do so, if you can't then make sure every precaution is taken not to!
NickInTheNorth
21-Aug-11, 19:02
I'm sure it's been mentioned before but what about limiting benefits for only the first 2 or 3 children? If you can afford to have more kids then by all means do so, if you can't then make sure every precaution is taken not to!
you can afford to, and therefore choose to have say 8 kids.
Out of the blue the bank you work for closes down due to the greed and stupidity of a single trader in one of the far eastern centres...
Suddenly you are out of work, with no income, and you only get benefits for 3 of your 8 kids...
Reality check required.
Corrie thats even worse than the original scroungers did ye have to put that up thats unreal they must be Britains worst scroungers lips are sealed im gonna get carried away and then im in big trouble.[evil]
John Little
21-Aug-11, 19:12
I think this couple win first prize as Britains biggest scroungers and wow....................... what a lovely house they have.
They win the booby prize though for naming their kids.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-470335/Jobless-couple-12-children-given-500-000-home.html
C3.......[disgust]:roll:
That piece is dated July 2007.
Are they still there and still getting that much?
NickInTheNorth
21-Aug-11, 19:15
once again it's the system at fault. Yes they are rather stupid, and yes they really should not have had the kids, but they have had them.
The system then has to deal with it. The minimum bedroom requirement would be 8, and the benefit amounts are about right, according to the rules.
These people are not doing anything illegal. Have a go at the system, but not them.
It is not there fault the system is so stupid. There are many instances in which people cannot afford to work due to the stupidity of the benefits system.
purplelady
21-Aug-11, 19:38
And shame on the kids but if thats the way they have been brought up their not going to bother either all my children are grown up now but they all work and im proud they are contributing to society ive heard a few of their friends bragging with all the benefits they get why should they go out and work oh how hard it is for me to keep my mouth shut Grr[evil]loving it doreen agree with everything you have said and why shud you be banned for saying what most of us are thinking x
Thank you Purple lady god if i could only let rip but mod disna like what ive said he has given me a warning dont think he likes my opinions on here and ive seen a lot worse im on three months probation never mind if you could read my mind well you have probably guessed how i feel about this thread.
Thank you Purple lady god if i could only let rip but mod disna like what ive said he has given me a warning dont think he likes my opinions on here and ive seen a lot worse im on three months probation never mind if you could read my mind well you have probably guessed how i feel about this thread.
The Mods / Admin do not give out infractions for nothing Doreen, you must have upset a few other Orgers, so no crocodile tears please
Now now Golach i will have less of yer lip and i thought you were nice now im gonna cry you really have upset me you always get one tut tut lol:lol:
Now now Golach i will have less of yer lip and i thought you were nice now im gonna cry you really have upset me you always get one tut tut lol:lol:
Doreen , my post was not intended to upset you, I was just stating the facts, hey I have had my share of infractions too, took them, and sat on the naught step and reflected my naval
Golach i was only joking ive got broad shoulders i know there was no malice intended im still on the naughty step an my bum has gone numb am i alloud to say bum ;)
dragonfly
21-Aug-11, 20:44
Golach i was only joking ive got broad shoulders i know there was no malice intended im still on the naughty step an my bum has gone numb am i alloud to say bum ;)
you'll soon find out lol, anyway you're part of a large group getting put on naughty step but mine like yours Doreen have always worked from a young age, its the way we've been brought up and in turn brought ours up, to be socially respectable to earn our rights in society not for them to be handed to us on a plate whenever we whinge!
My poor granny was widowed at the age of 30 with 3 small children to bring up, she scrimped, saved, worked 2 jobs to provide for her children, there were no state handouts other than her widow's pension, she made do and mended, if it wasn't needed it was a luxury. Just because its there doesn't mean it HAS to be taken.....grrrrrr from me too
Your dead right Dragonfly at 12 i had to work if i needed things coz my mother had nothing i did not moan i just went and worked if not i did without life today is to easy for some teenagers who just cant be bothred so they get money given to them just to smoke and drink it.Not all kids but i know a few thats quiete proud of the fact they dont want to work as they get more than enough from the goverment how bad is that they should be made to do things for our local communnity in return for their benefits.
linnie612
21-Aug-11, 21:38
Tabloids survive on printing 'the best-of-the-best' and 'the worst-of-the-worst' stories, and we ALL read them. The point is not every story is an extreme
Bobinovich
21-Aug-11, 21:39
you can afford to, and therefore choose to have say 8 kids.
Out of the blue the bank you work for closes down due to the greed and stupidity of a single trader in one of the far eastern centres...
Suddenly you are out of work, with no income, and you only get benefits for 3 of your 8 kids...
Reality check required.
Fine it was simply one idea, but the system has got to change somewhere, so what do you suggest? The state can't afford (and I think I'm fairly accurate in saying that the vast majority of taxpayers don't want) the continued scrounging by families breeding simply for the benefits which many appear to do - especially those who don't work and/or have never worked at all!
Maybe families going above the 3 child benefit limit should be forced to take out sufficient insurance against loss of income (whether it be through your example, or death/long term illness of the breadwinner(s)) - there are already income protection policies out there to cover such eventualities.
linnie612
21-Aug-11, 22:04
Doreen , my post was not intended to upset you, I was just stating the facts, hey I have had my share of infractions too, took them, and sat on the naught step and reflected my naval
I'm impressed - what on?:D
secrets in symmetry
21-Aug-11, 22:58
Tabloids survive on printing 'the best-of-the-best' and 'the worst-of-the-worst' stories, and we ALL read them. The point is not every story is an extreme
We don't "ALL" read tabloids. I don't read them, nor do (most of) the people I know.
linnie612
21-Aug-11, 23:26
We don't "ALL" read tabloids. I don't read them, nor do (most of) the people I know.
Oh, yes you do! You saw the (sensationalist) OP, looked at, read through and posted yourself! Can't speak for (most of) your pals though
secrets in symmetry
22-Aug-11, 00:07
Oh, yes you do! You saw the (sensationalist) OP, looked at, read through and posted yourself! Can't speak for (most of) your pals thoughNo I didn't. I saw it was published in the Express, so I ignored it. Yours was the last post, and your claim was incorrect, so I corrected it.
I hope you don't think I actually read much of the crap posted in this thread!
There are many instances in which people cannot afford to work due to the stupidity of the benefits system.Choose! Choose not to work.
Tabloids survive on printing 'the best-of-the-best' and 'the worst-of-the-worst' stories, and we ALL read them.No. Many choose to pay for this titillation and crap.
I switched off pretty much completely after the whole Diana bullshit.
The tabloid masses have been sold an extreme titbit, which the politico's (of any persuasion) want you to bite on. They can then posture their political soundbites to play on your senses to make you vote for them. Again.
Generally we want to hear robust rhetoric, or indications of strong action. We happily pay to be fed the bullshit we want to hear, we will sign up to 24 months of contract shite, spewing these kind of extremes. Yet, while we sit in judgement of others in our armchairs, based on this titillation that we accept as fact, we ignore the reality.
And whilst we're all up in arms over an insignificant someone, another war is started or obscene tax law is passed.
We'll all vote at the next election based on the biggest numbers the politico's falsely pitch to the tabloid masses which sound like an attack on 'them'. The 'them' include this wifey and the 'rich' or whatever 'you' want 'them' to be. etc. etc. But the reality is you've all bought (Yes. your paying for this) into a political BS exercise where the numbers don't add up but sound good.
linnie612
22-Aug-11, 01:49
No I didn't. I saw it was published in the Express, so I ignored it. Yours was the last post, and your claim was incorrect, so I corrected it.
I hope you don't think I actually read much of the crap posted in this thread!
A £ for everytime I've heard 'I don't look at the tabloids, but....'
Aaldtimer
22-Aug-11, 03:10
I don't buy the tabloids either...but how's about this then?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2025895/Housing-benefits-Somali-asylum-seeker-Saeed-Khaliifs-family-2m-house.html
Ignoring the potential eugenic undertones. There's something to be said for giving these people a one-off payment of say 10k if they get sterilised. It's a coerced choice granted, but still a choice or as Nick hinted at regular free injections of some sort of birth control.
John Little
22-Aug-11, 09:02
Choose! Choose not to work.
No. Many choose to pay for this titillation and crap.
I switched off pretty much completely after the whole Diana bullshit.
The tabloid masses have been sold an extreme titbit, which the politico's (of any persuasion) want you to bite on. They can then posture their political soundbites to play on your senses to make you vote for them. Again.
Generally we want to hear robust rhetoric, or indications of strong action. We happily pay to be fed the bullshit we want to hear, we will sign up to 24 months of contract shite, spewing these kind of extremes. Yet, while we sit in judgement of others in our armchairs, based on this titillation that we accept as fact, we ignore the reality.
And whilst we're all up in arms over an insignificant someone, another war is started or obscene tax law is passed.
We'll all vote at the next election based on the biggest numbers the politico's falsely pitch to the tabloid masses which sound like an attack on 'them'. The 'them' include this wifey and the 'rich' or whatever 'you' want 'them' to be. etc. etc. But the reality is you've all bought (Yes. your paying for this) into a political BS exercise where the numbers don't add up but sound good.
You've been reading Chomsky again!
It won't make you a happy bunny. :lol:
I'm reading a lot of the above and forming the impression that there are some people who feel themselves to be somewhat superior to others by virtue of what they read, view, or hear from their preferred sources.
I have to tell you that you are NOT superior. Many people who know long words are no use in the real world, and many opinions from superior sources can't wash the dishes, split the atom, build a wall, or nurse a baby.
Please stop announcing how clever you are. You are not. You still go to the toilet. You still need food. And you all - WE all - go out the same way we came in - naked, without a penny, and a bit wrinkled.
The only difference in death is that we may go out with a big smile knowing that we had a few laughs along the way. Like laughing at people who think they are better than anyone else.
NickInTheNorth
22-Aug-11, 11:00
very insightful. Moves the debate along nicely.
What was it you said about benefits...
while I dont agree with what this woman is doing,I can understand why,if you have ever tried to live on benefits you will know that it is bloody hard going,unless you have some way of getting more than most! It goes on all the time,up here is no different from anywhere else,you got those who do abuse the system,and all the while they live better lives while others pick up the bad label that seems to be attached to anyone who is out of work these days! Do you know how hard it is to find work? I do.....I am desperate to get back into paid employment,but as simple as it sounds,its not! I have 3 kids,who were born in what i thought was a happy marriage,would I have had them if I could have known a few years down the line that their dad would sod off and I would be left to clothe,feed and care for them?Not a hope! Would I happily live of benefits for the rest of my life? Nope....anyone who has had to go and "sign on" will know exactly what I mean,you are left feeling like the biggest scum on earth because you cant find a job that either fits in with the hours you can do,or has enough hours to be able to live from! I was told to take on a 10 hours job,lose my benefits completely and still be expected to be able to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table,as long as I was off their books they dont care if the employment is suitable or pays enough! I also have to work voluntary for a month to prove I am willing to work,which I already do every day,but apparently my voluntary work doesnt count,but with 2 places in Caithness that take on volunteers to work from the DWP how many can actually expect employment at the end of it? Why would they pay a worker when they can get them for free? Yet again its damned if you do...damned if you dont x
NickInTheNorth
22-Aug-11, 14:10
It is possibly worth mentioning that according to the governments own statistics there are over 4 million people currently looking for work in the UK.
Makes it quite tough to go out and get yourself a job!
while I dont agree with what this woman is doing,I can understand why,if you have ever tried to live on benefits you will know that it is bloody hard going,unless you have some way of getting more than most! It goes on all the time,up here is no different from anywhere else,you got those who do abuse the system,and all the while they live better lives while others pick up the bad label that seems to be attached to anyone who is out of work these days! Do you know how hard it is to find work? I do.....I am desperate to get back into paid employment,but as simple as it sounds,its not! I have 3 kids,who were born in what i thought was a happy marriage,would I have had them if I could have known a few years down the line that their dad would sod off and I would be left to clothe,feed and care for them?Not a hope! Would I happily live of benefits for the rest of my life? Nope....anyone who has had to go and "sign on" will know exactly what I mean,you are left feeling like the biggest scum on earth because you cant find a job that either fits in with the hours you can do,or has enough hours to be able to live from! I was told to take on a 10 hours job,lose my benefits completely and still be expected to be able to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table,as long as I was off their books they dont care if the employment is suitable or pays enough! I also have to work voluntary for a month to prove I am willing to work,which I already do every day,but apparently my voluntary work doesnt count,but with 2 places in Caithness that take on volunteers to work from the DWP how many can actually expect employment at the end of it? Why would they pay a worker when they can get them for free? Yet again its damned if you do...damned if you dont x
I feel for you Thumper. Presumably because your voluntary work is with animals not people it doesn't count (or they don't get a free social worker!) I doesn't surprise me at all that the people running the employment office are idiots. But most of them will be fired soon leaving the one low paid person that actually does any work in charge.
I believe you could fire one in five public sector workers pretty much at random and have no effect on services.
Thumper your situation is different than the said people who are ripping of the taxpayers you by the looks of it has not had an easy time and really feel it for you and i can tell its through no fault of your own and doing voluntary work is good but it should count and you should not feel like scum. My daughter was made redundant and has two little ones and gets hardly anything and she has worked for 12 years its so unfair she feels the same way as you do but dont it through no fault of your own.:)
NickInTheNorth
22-Aug-11, 18:51
Thumper your situation is different than the said people who are ripping of the taxpayers you by the looks of it has not had an easy time and really feel it for you and i can tell its through no fault of your own and doing voluntary work is good but it should count and you should not feel like scum. My daughter was made redundant and has two little ones and gets hardly anything and she has worked for 12 years its so unfair she feels the same way as you do but dont it through no fault of your own.:)
But Doreen you and many others seem to believe that people like Thumper are the small minority, and that most folk on benefits are scrounging scum. The opposite is the truth, the vast majority of benefits claimants are decent law abiding and hard working people who through no fault of their own need some help. Sometimes short term, and sometimes long term.
The bad ones take advantage of the system. But even they didn't make the rules up. The politicians are the ones that deserve the anger, but it is always directed at some poor unfortunate that the media pick on. Anyone, that is anyone at all that is:
a) on benefits, and
b) well off
Is a lying cheating thieving scumbag. That is a simple fact. Even the benefits that are often pointed out as being generous are in reality not. If anyone is getting rich on benefits they are either working and earning more than they declare (which is a crime), or carrying out other criminal activities.
Yes the woman with 10 kids is annoying, but seriously in the scheme of things she is no making a blind bit of difference to any tax payer in this country. Far more concerning should be the crooks that are milking the system to the tune of hundreds of thousands of pounds.
Here are a few links about the real benefit cheats:
23 people £250000 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1363162/Benefit-cheat-UK-How-just-day-court-saw-staggering-23-cases-welfare-fraud.html)
family cheated £130000 caught out on holiday (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1136382/Shameless-Benefits-cheat-family-netted-130k-caught-Spanish-holiday.html)
£1 million love rat (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2919174/Britains-biggest-love-rat-exposed-as-a-brazen-benefits-cheat.html)
Top ten benefits cheats (http://www.totallymoney.com/news/index.php/2009/05/the-uks-top-ten-benefit-scandals/) Some of these ones I would categorise as honest, but annoying, others are outright criminals.
The big benefit cheat (http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2008/04/average-earnings-incomes-tax)
Some interesting reading amongst that lot!
Some more!
£1 million pound housing benefit scam (http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/housing-management/gang-nets-%C2%A31m-from-housing-benefit-scam/6513845.article)
£53,000 housing benefits scam (http://www.harrowobserver.co.uk/west-london-news/local-harrow-news/2011/02/08/brothers-guilty-of-housing-benefits-scam-116451-28133542/)
Highland councillor jailed (http://www.highland-news.co.uk/News/Inverness-councillor-sentenced-for-43K-benefits-frauds-11082011.htm)
Thats over my head Nick in north but you are to cleaver for me but what im trying to say is our country is to generous to idle people and the needy dont get hardly any help ive worked since i was 12 now im in my late 40s when i retire what am i going to get pension wise and my husband who works 12 hours 7 days a weekand pays 40 percente tax to keep the lazy gits in drink and fags and thousands more that pays there taxes and grudges it we have worked hard all our lives and what for nothing.
linnie612
22-Aug-11, 21:19
The needy are overlooked, the greedy will find a way
Thats over my head Nick in north but you are to cleaver for me but what im trying to say is our country is to generous to idle people and the needy dont get hardly any help ive worked since i was 12 now im in my late 40s when i retire what am i going to get pension wise and my husband who works 12 hours 7 days a weekand pays 40 percente tax to keep the lazy gits in drink and fags and thousands more that pays there taxes and grudges it we have worked hard all our lives and what for nothing.
The vast majority of the idle people want to work but cannot find work and that is what makes them needy. They do not get a lot of money to live on just above the poverty level. On top of that they are now being made to feel like scroungers for claiming what they need to live on, no one with any self respect wants to be idle. Of course there are those who manage to play the system but they should be dealt with and where people are aware of what is going on they should report them but they are in the minority. Those who evade paying tax without the excuse of living in poverty are even worse and cost the country a great deal more money yet little is said about them in the media.
What about this one then? I hope she goes to prison for a very, very long time and is forced to pay back all the money that she has taken from honest taxpayers!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-14622918
C3...[disgust][disgust]
NickInTheNorth
23-Aug-11, 17:28
What about this one then? I hope she goes to prison for a very, very long time and is forced to pay back all the money that she has taken from honest taxpayers!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-14622918
C3...[disgust][disgust]
nasty little thief and liar. Get her strung up!
Bobinovich
23-Aug-11, 17:42
NITN, I've suggested one change and followed it up with a provisio based on your theoretical (but not uncommon) scenario, yet I notice you've not answered my previous question as to what you'd do to reduce the benefits bill. Yes catching and punishing those who are defrauding the system (as per your numerous links) goes without saying, but what changes to the rules, if any, would you implement to reduce the relentless burden on the taxpayer?
nasty little thief and liar. Get her strung up!
Yes Nick, especially as she has a foreign sounding name, these immigrants are all the same....oop's ...sorry, I am not a racist, honestly!!!
Now then, pass me the rope will you?.......:roll:
C3....;);)
NickInTheNorth
23-Aug-11, 18:24
NITN, I've suggested one change and followed it up with a provisio based on your theoretical (but not uncommon) scenario, yet I notice you've not answered my previous question as to what you'd do to reduce the benefits bill. Yes catching and punishing those who are defrauding the system (as per your numerous links) goes without saying, but what changes to the rules, if any, would you implement to reduce the relentless burden on the taxpayer?
To be honest Bob I don't actually have too much of a problem with the benefits system. The burden on the taxpayer due to the benefits system is not that onerous in the scheme of things, and if the government do their job properly and create a business climate which increases the jobs available in the UK to allow far more people to work then the costs will reduce drastically and the tax take increase dramatically too.
I for one am quite happy to pay tax at current levels to maintain a benefits safety net that befits a decent society.
I would certainly provide far higher levels of funding to the fraud investigation sections of the departments responsible for paying benefits. They have proven to be very cost effective - I cannot immediately find a reference but recall that the last time I saw a study of their effectiveness they were recovering more than 8 times their costs! The government cut their funding!
I would like to see a scheme introduced which does take action against people who rely on benefits and yet choose to have large families. Something along the lines first child accepted, as everyone has a right to reproduce. Second child serious discussion with the authorities regarding responsibilities. Third child final warning. Fourth child legally enforced birth control using something like depo-provera as I mentioned before. Any religious objections can be accepted provided the religious order responsible for the doctrine accepts full financial responsibility for any further children.
An end to universal benefits, and a single unified benefits system which sets a figure required for a particular family group to live on taking into account acceptable social norms. So yes, broadband, sky tv, mobile phones etc should be available on benefits which many people seem to object to, but they are a required tool for job seeking, and for relaxation. Clearly the figure would differ from region to region and should also take account of medical needs.
Then when people should be encouraged to work. Let's say that a family with no special needs of 6 is allowed £24000 (just because it's a nice round number - and not actually far off what is currently allowed) per year to cover all costs; Housing, food, heat, light, transport, clothing, school meals, absolutely everything. For every £1 they earn reduce the benefits payment by say 80p until they get to whatever pre-set limit is imposed say total income, benefits and earnings of £30000.
That would encourage people to take any work available, without knowing that by doing so they will actually be worse off which does happen today.
Under the current system there is only one major change I would make; to the rules regarding local housing allowance which is paid to people in private rented accommodation. I would make it payable to people with a mortgage as well as to people renting a property. I don't see any difference in principle why the state will subsidise housing for someone in private rented, and thus provide a benefit to an owner of property, and not pay it to someone who has worked hard to buy a house but has found it necessary to claim some form of welfare benefit due to a change in their circumstances. Currently it is not unusual to find someone is forced to sell a property and move into rented accommodation. There is no financial benefit to the state a the rents generally are similar to a mortgage payment.
....oop's ...sorry, I am not a racist, honestly!!!Clearly you're not racist. Xenophobe would probably suit better. Dunno if this is better or worse, or legal / illegal, PC or non PC. It kinda falls in line with my Trebuchet Party manifesto though.
Clearly you're not racist. Xenophobe would probably suit better. Dunno if this is better or worse, or legal / illegal, PC or non PC. It kinda falls in line with my Trebuchet Party manifesto though.
Thanks Phill, that makes me feel a lot better !!
C3............;)
I like how they add in 'by four different men' Are they paying for their children????????
secrets in symmetry
27-Aug-11, 16:17
I'm reading a lot of the above and forming the impression that there are some people who feel themselves to be somewhat superior to others by virtue of what they read, view, or hear from their preferred sources.
I have to tell you that you are NOT superior. Many people who know long words are no use in the real world, and many opinions from superior sources can't wash the dishes, split the atom, build a wall, or nurse a baby.
Please stop announcing how clever you are. You are not. You still go to the toilet. You still need food. And you all - WE all - go out the same way we came in - naked, without a penny, and a bit wrinkled.
The only difference in death is that we may go out with a big smile knowing that we had a few laughs along the way. Like laughing at people who think they are better than anyone else.Your life and its consequences are not defined by its temporal boundary conditions!
I've seen that claim many times before, but rarely from someone with well connected synapses. :cool:
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