View Full Version : Thurso lifeboat to rescue 12 passengers from John O Groats RIB stranded on Stroma
captain chaos
26-Jul-11, 18:45
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/highlands-islands/263863-twelve-rescued-from-vessel-on-rocks-in-pentland-firth/Twelve rescued from vessel in Pentland Firth sea cave
A lifeboat has rescued twelve people trapped in a sea cave off the Isle of Stroma in the Pentland Firth.
Their rigid hulled inflatable boat, the North Coast Explorer, hit rocks and got into difficulty at Gloup Cave at around 3pm on Tuesday.
The Aberdeen Coastguard received the call and deployed the Thurso lifeboat, supported by the shore-based coastguard rescue team.
Since the swell was high inside the cave, a decision was made to take everyone off the boat and make a mayday broadcast.
The coastguard helicopter from Shetland was also scrambled and a yacht, ‘Gulan’ also went to the scene and stood by, ready to assist.
A coastguard spokeswoman said none of the people on board the boat were injured and that they had been rescued successfully.
She said that the ten passengers and two crew arrived safely at John O'Groats. It is believed that the people on board were tourists.
Pete Lowson, Aberdeen Coastguard Watch Manager says: "All of the crew and passengers are safe and well, having been taken back to John O’ Groats by the lifeboat.”
Stroma is the more southerly of the two islands in the Pentland Firth between Orkney and Caithness.
Text book rescue by the sounds of it; and yes, well done to everyone involved.
Text book rescue by the sounds of it; and yes, well done to everyone involved.
Not so well done getting stranded on a pleasure trip.
Not so well done getting stranded on a pleasure trip.
Ah but I was referring to the rescue, not the rescued.......
Hope both the operators of the rib and the customers dipped into their pockets, good to know that they are all safe and well.
annemarie482
27-Jul-11, 00:45
Well done folks!
Hope both the operators of the rib and the customers dipped into their pockets, good to know that they are all safe and well.
The operators should pay everyone's share. The customers already paid the operators and didn't get what they paid for, or got more than they paid for- depends how you look at it.
Well done, rescuers. Take a good look at yourselves, RIB "seamen."
northener
27-Jul-11, 08:34
......... Take a good look at yourselves, RIB "seamen."
Oh dear.....
The operators should pay everyone's share. The customers already paid the operators and didn't get what they paid for, or got more than they paid for- depends how you look at it.
Well done, rescuers. Take a good look at yourselves, RIB "seamen."
Having sailed on the RIB on many occasions, and seen much of the capability of the boat and crews, I assume the circumstances must have been such that the stranding was unavoidable and done to keep the paying passengers safe.
I'm sure they all went home with an exciting story to tell and none the worse for their adventure.
Text book rescue by the sounds of it; and yes, well done to everyone involved.
Yes Torvaig well done the crew of Thurso lifeboat, when their pagers go off, they drop everything and just go, not like some paramedic ambulence men these days, they need their uninterupted meal breaks. [disgust]
story of what actually happened here- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-14298856
I have been on this rib a few times,and they are highly professional!ALL mechanical forms of transport can fail,nothing to do with who is driving them,just one of those things
ps-not saying Captain chaos' OP isnt true either,just posting the news story x
annemarie482
27-Jul-11, 13:07
thanks for sharing thumper, could happen to the best of them.
handled perfectly by all.
orkneycadian
27-Jul-11, 13:54
Mental note to self - Remember not go on a pleaseure trip, in a notoriously strong current area, very near rocky bits, on a RIB that only has one engine....
northener
27-Jul-11, 14:46
Mental note to self - Remember not go on a pleaseure trip, in a sheltered and reasonably calm area, in 8m of water with no sharp rocks, on a RIB that only has one engine....
Fixed it for you.
Armchair admirals, don't ya just love them.
Armchair admirals, don't ya just love them.
Can only speak for myself, but I make no apology for taking a serious view of boats full of passengers getting into difficulties at sea. Any operator or skipper who doesn't is a much bigger menace than any armchair admiral.
I am sure the operators of this boat take it very seriously too,but as they havent been able to reply why should people assume there arent taking it seriously?x
This is just a small edit of video footage taken on a headcam worn by one of the guys on the Y-boat. They did a magnificent job getting all of them off the rocks and back to dry land.
http://www.rnlivideolibrary.org.uk/getvideo.aspx?vid=Y7bfZaOH
Can only speak for myself, but I make no apology for taking a serious view of boats full of passengers getting into difficulties at sea. Any operator or skipper who doesn't is a much bigger menace than any armchair admiral.
This thread was surely directed at the great efforts of the Lifeboat...theres always one
Well done to the Thurso Lifeboat crew.
This thread was surely directed at the great efforts of the Lifeboat...theres always one
Well done to the Thurso Lifeboat crew.
Has the thread got a skipper and a plotted course too then?
This is just a small edit of video footage taken on a headcam worn by one of the guys on the Y-boat. They did a magnificent job getting all of them off the rocks and back to dry land.
http://www.rnlivideolibrary.org.uk/getvideo.aspx?vid=Y7bfZaOH
Excellent footage
Fixed it for you.
Armchair admirals, don't ya just love them.
""Mental note to self - Remember not go on a pleaseure trip, in a sheltered and reasonably calm area, in 8m of water with no sharp rocks, on a RIB that only has one engine that could stop working and cause lots of people to have to come and rescue us at great hassle and expense"
Now thats it fixed, sorry but mucking about in the firth with only one engine is stupid at best. The proof is in the title of the thread. Well done to all concerned on the rescue side though.
How many years have those trips been on the go? This is the first time anything has happened. I've been out on the north sea explorer many a time and will go again. I'm sur3e extra seafety precations will be taken now.
I'm sur3e extra seafety precations will be taken now.
I don't want to sound argumentative, but were they waiting for something to go wrong before taking these extra precautions?
How far do they go with precautions?
Take two identical vessels out, one with passengers and one on standby? With a third safety vessel just in case, oh, lets throw in some air support on standby too. Trip round Stroma in a RIB, yes sir, £6,365.00 each please!
It seemed the incident was dealt with effectively, to me it seemed a 'genuine' mishap with an outfit prepared to a certain degree for such incidents. Unlike the idiots that go hill walking in flipflops without checking the weather, or the jokers that go to sea in a kiddies blow up dingy.
I've not noticed the similar shouts of 'menace' about the fishing vessels that get towed in with engine failures or props getting clogged.
How far do they go with precautions?
Take two identical vessels out, one with passengers and one on standby? With a third safety vessel just in case, oh, lets throw in some air support on standby too. Trip round Stroma in a RIB, yes sir, £6,365.00 each please!
Two or more rubber boats might make things worse, under some circumstances. Your money argument is a bit backwards. If making it safe is disproportionately expensive, you cancel the trip, rather than sail without precautions to save money.
These boats don't really only have one engine do they? Even my old Dad had a second outboard at the creels.
I've not noticed the similar shouts of 'menace' about the fishing vessels that get towed in with engine failures or props getting clogged.
That's worth some thinking about.
Fishing boats don't deliberately sail into "interesting" waters or see how close they can get to rocks and caves, just to impress people. They also don't get loaded up with people who have no need to be there.
Brilliant clip, well done thurso lifeboat. The tourists would have drowned if the tide came in.
Duncansby
28-Jul-11, 01:06
This is the first time anything has happened.
Except it's not - passengers were also rescued a few years ago.
Another great job!
When I was 'oot in a wee boatie' at Lybster, some years ago (more than once), we had a 'sail' as the auxiliary propulsion.
Walter Ego
28-Jul-11, 06:58
Most of the 'Adventure' RIBs I've seen around the UK coast appear to have only one engine. Also, most of the fishing boats I've seen have only one engine. The boats I have been aware of that have grounded or towed in by the RNLI tend to be small fishing boats -with one engine.
Maybe it's time for a 'two engine' ruling? For everyone? Many private angling boats appear to have two.
Regarding the comment about fishing boats not going into dodgy areas? Don't make me laugh.
Plus I'd love to see Sids and Orcadian stood at the harbourside berating those who are towed in by the RNLI for being poor seamen and not knowing what they are doing, I'd pay money to see the result of that conversation, I would.:Razz
Regarding the comment about fishing boats not going into dodgy areas? Don't make me laugh.
Plus I'd love to see Sids and Orcadian stood at the harbourside berating those who are towed in by the RNLI for being poor seamen and not knowing what they are doing, I'd pay money to see the result of that conversation, I would.:Razz
I dont really have an opinion about the rights and wrongs of playing with danger because its a part of our makeup as human beings.
Lifeboat men and anyone who makes a living from the sea have my highest regard.
when i first saw the reports on the org about this lucky escape it reminded of 2 letters sent to the Groat just before this venture enterprise was due to begin, One was sent by the then lifeboat coxsain and the other by a Stroma born man who has had connections with the sea all his life and still has. Neither were happy about the idea and both offered their concerns in public about the dangers.
Walter Ego
28-Jul-11, 09:15
Just a thought.
The CAA are more than happy for fare paying public to go up in single engined aircraft. Perhaps it's time they were banned?
any form of transport comes with dangers,everyone is happy enough when it is all going well,but as soon as anything goes wrong lots of people start saying "oh I knew it....could see it coming....was waiting for it to happen" etc,amazing how many people are "experts" as soon as something goes wrong! I am sure that the company who own this boat are well aware of the dangers,after all they have to get a license to operate legally,and I am sure they are more than aware of what they can and cant do with the boat,at the end of the day everyone came home safe,the RNLI did an amazing job,and nobody was harmed,so why do people feel the need to pull the whole thing apart? x
Yes Torvaig well done the crew of Thurso lifeboat, when their pagers go off, they drop everything and just go, not like some paramedic ambulence men these days, they need their uninterupted meal breaks. [disgust]
Lifeboatmen/women are professional volunteers who work long hours, are involved in dangerous situations involving risking their lives, go without sustenance for hours on end, are available (barring 2nd, 3rd callouts simultaneously) 24 hours a day and have the admiration and support of the many rescued personnel and the whole population. They are angels of mercy and a wonderful sight to anyone in peril on the sea and unversally admired and supported by all, including me.
Paramedics, women and men, are paid professionals who work long hours, are involved in dangerous situations involving risking their lives, going without sustenance for hours on end, are available (barring more callouts when all vehicles are already out) 24 hours a day and have the admiration and support of many people.
But not always the admiration and support of those being assisted. Paramedics get spat on, attacked, verbally abused, lowered over cliffs, crawl below crashed lorries with fuel all around, squeezed into nigh impossible corners, are at risk from body fluid contamination, and goodness knows what else. They face alcohol fuelled raving lunatics, drug fuelled idiots and drunk drivers who ruin many lives. They attend horrific accidents, suicides and are curtailed by stupid onlookers wanting to see the gory details, drunken fools who think they can interfere and make their job much more difficult and often delay emergency rescues. They are called out on 999 calls for cut knees etc., of drunks looking for a lift home.
They put up with ambulance chasers, irate, drunk/drugged supposed friends and relatives, miss many lunches, dinners and coffees/teas because they stay as long as the shout needs them. They have to hand over an immaculate vehicle to the next crew, then they can go home.
Paramedics are not volunteers, they are highly trained professionals just like the lifeboatmen/women, are on official duty for either 8 or 12 hours at a time, can often be out much longer than their shift hours and are employed by the Ambulance Service which is responsible for ensuring that there are ambulance technicians and paramedics available 24 hours a day.
If the Ambulance Service cannot see fit to use the taxes we pay to provide a full service with stand-by professionals always available when all shift crews are out on calls or having a necessary break to keep going, then maybe it is time that the public shouted, derided, and scorned the highly paid bosses instead of our valuable and professional ambulance technicians and paramedics.
Well said Torvaig - agree with you completely.
Yes I agree with Pat/ Well said T.
The only thing with 'paid' employees, likely the conditions that they work under was negotiated by their Union/ Association. Of course it had to be OK's by the Mgmt......
Lifeboat 'people' around the World are Special. I have been out in storms on the water(not on a lifeboat), and at that point I just wanted to get to port.....and at that time they are on their way out. Takes guts and dedication.
sorry Torvaig I disagree with on your stand about the paramedics, no Lifeboat man would ever do what they are doing at the moment is what I mean. And our Lifeboat men are volunteers not well paid ambulance drivers.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/health-news/2011/07/15/scots-paramedics-turn-down-tea-break-pay-offer-86908-23272537/
Just a thought.
The CAA are more than happy for fare paying public to go up in single engined aircraft. Perhaps it's time they were banned?
It's another subject I know little about, but I can see differences. 'Planes have to be very rigorously maintained, I do believe. Also, it's quite practical to carry a backup outboard motor, or even oars, on many small boats.
Is it easy to get a single engined plane licensed to carry the fare paying public? I don't know.
Most of the 'Adventure' RIBs I've seen around the UK coast appear to have only one engine. Also, most of the fishing boats I've seen have only one engine. The boats I have been aware of that have grounded or towed in by the RNLI tend to be small fishing boats -with one engine.
Maybe it's time for a 'two engine' ruling? For everyone? Many private angling boats appear to have two.
Nobody likes over-regulation. I just like to see masters take their passengers' safety seriously.
Regarding the comment about fishing boats not going into dodgy areas? Don't make me laugh.
Maybe it's only me that can see a difference between going into potentially dangerous waters to catch fish as a profession and going there with a boatload of tourists just to provide thrills.
Plus I'd love to see Sids and Orcadian stood at the harbourside berating those who are towed in by the RNLI for being poor seamen and not knowing what they are doing, I'd pay money to see the result of that conversation, I would.:Razz
It can't be unusual for rescued (especially repeatedly rescued) fishermen to be "berated" on the quayside.
As for your proposed encounter, I would very easily dish out a lesson in manners to them all, including Orkneysian, just for good measure. Why, even Chuck Norris is afr... aaaargh!
sorry Torvaig I disagree with on your stand about the paramedics, no Lifeboat man would ever do what they are doing at the moment is what I mean. And our Lifeboat men are volunteers not well paid ambulance drivers.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/health-news/2011/07/15/scots-paramedics-turn-down-tea-break-pay-offer-86908-23272537/
I apologise for deviating from the original posting but you brought up the subject of paramedics and proceeded to denigrate them.
Last word (I have highlighted sentiments similar to mine in my above post) from an Ambulance employee as quoted in your link:
"I have worked for the Scottish Ambulance Service for seven years. In that time I have abandoned my meal break and responded to emergency calls many times. I have never received an annual payment of £250, or a daily payment of £5, or 45 minutes overtime as the article suggests.
I have done this because I joined the ambulance service to HELP people.
It's not the staff of the ambulance service that people should be complaining about - it's the managers that try to do everything on the cheap.
There should be no problem with any of us having a break - after all 12 hours is a long time to work non-stop. The problem is either that there are not enough ambulances, or that too many people are phoning 999 when they do not need to. We used to be an emergency service. Now we go to people with sore wrists, or headaches, or people that are drunk / bored. That's why folks are dying, because all the ambulances are dealing with this sort of nonsense rather than being left for the genuine emergencies."
How many years have those trips been on the go? This is the first time anything has happened. I've been out on the north sea explorer many a time and will go again. I'm sur3e extra seafety precations will be taken now.
This is, of course, not the first instance of a problem. Having read the report in today's Groat and the comments of those on the boat there has to be safety concerns. Also I find it incredible that schools have been using this vessel for school trips with young children!
Good to see the RNLI doing well again (I only support two charities and they are one of them) interesting to note it was an inflatable that nosed in to get the folk..
These tourists did not go on the gentle 'wildlife trip' with JOG ferries, they preferred the excitement of bouncing about on a rig - they expected 'adventure' - the fact that the cotter pin went (?) on the prop is an incident that could have happened to that RNLI inshore boat.
The fact that all the necessary and successful actions by the rescue services was carried out efficiently is good news.. Tourists were willing.
Some may see danger in everything, but 'things' happen.. 1857 people killed on the roads - does that make it a dangerous pursuit?
the first time i went on it I asked whar would happen if it burst. i was told it had seven compartments. The other six would still keep it afloat. I replied 'that's what they said about the Titanic...'
Duncansby
29-Jul-11, 10:30
- the fact that the cotter pin went (?) on the prop is an incident that could have happened to that RNLI inshore boat.
I would think that the RNLI craft will be properly maintained so that such eventualities never arise.
1857 people killed on the roads - does that make it a dangerous pursuit?[/SIZE]
The way some people drive - yes!
I would think that the RNLI craft will be properly maintained so that such eventualities never arise.
The way some people drive - yes!
Hmm I thought a cotter pin actually was a device that stopped the prop falling off? any boat that hits a rock (like this one did) will shear the cotter pin to protect the prop, of course the prop won't turn but it's still there - just like the RNLI inflatable - not sure what you mean "Properly maintained" - do tell what happens if the RNLI boat's prop hits a rock?
Duncansby
29-Jul-11, 11:22
Hmm I thought a cotter pin actually was a device that stopped the prop falling off? any boat that hits a rock (like this one did) will shear the cotter pin to protect the prop, of course the prop won't turn but it's still there - just like the RNLI inflatable - not sure what you mean "Properly maintained" - do tell what happens if the RNLI boat's prop hits a rock?
The engine failed and it hit the rock, it didn't hit the rock and then the engine failed.
The engine failed and it hit the rock, it didn't hit the rock and then the engine failed.
Oh dear, must have got confused by the reports: "Their rigid hulled inflatable boat, the North Coast Explorer, hit rocks and got into difficulty at Gloup Cave at around 3pm on Tuesday." and "Coastguard crew have successfully rescued twelve people after their boat hit rocks off the Isle of Stroma."
I'll give you that.
But as you've pointed out, to confirm: "Billy Munro, a partner in North Coast Marine Adventures, which operates the tour boat, said: "It looks like the vessel had a hydraulic problem which stopped it going astern."
So are you stating it was down to bad maintenance by North Coast Adventures and that their hydraulic problem was caused by lack of said? your quote; ["I would think that the RNLI craft will be properly maintained so that such eventualities never arise"]
Must go I'm off out bungee jumping..
Oh dear, must have got confused by the reports: "Their rigid hulled inflatable boat, the North Coast Explorer, hit rocks and got into difficulty at Gloup Cave at around 3pm on Tuesday." and "Coastguard crew have successfully rescued twelve people after their boat hit rocks off the Isle of Stroma."
I'll give you that.
But as you've pointed out, to confirm: "Billy Munro, a partner in North Coast Marine Adventures, which operates the tour boat, said: "It looks like the vessel had a hydraulic problem which stopped it going astern."
So are you stating it was down to bad maintenance by North Coast Adventures and that their hydraulic problem was caused by lack of said? your quote; ["I would think that the RNLI craft will be properly maintained so that such eventualities never arise"]
Must go I'm off out bungee jumping..
Don't know where the cotter pin story came from...our glorious press no doubt. Unless they have changed the boat since last time I was on it. It has an Aqua Jet motor (no prop)
Duncansby
29-Jul-11, 12:49
[SIZE=2]So are you stating it was down to bad maintenance by North Coast Adventures and that their hydraulic problem was caused by lack of said? your quote; ["I would think that the RNLI craft will be properly maintained so that such eventualities never arise"]
No I'm not saying that, all I'm saying is that the RNLI vessels are unlikely to break down.
webmannie
29-Jul-11, 14:12
Hmm, interesting discussion. I wonder what their contingency plan was for engine failure in a cave? If it had been an arch that you can transit through then that is a different risk to a cave you go in and then have to reverse back out of? Maybe the risk was underestimated and they just shouldn't have been in there?
Hmm I thought a cotter pin actually was a device that stopped the prop falling off? any boat that hits a rock (like this one did) will shear the cotter pin to protect the prop, of course the prop won't turn but it's still there - just like the RNLI inflatable - not sure what you mean "Properly maintained" - do tell what happens if the RNLI boat's prop hits a rock?
I think you will find if the RNLI inflatable's engine stops they will use their "backup propulsion" which is a set off oars
Arn't these boats licensed by the Coastguard or someone.....
I know here they are, and in a situation like this one someone would check these people out.......Great phrase tho'...... ...T. Happens!
Don't know where the cotter pin story came from...our glorious press no doubt. Unless they have changed the boat since last time I was on it. It has an Aqua Jet motor (no prop)
Ta for that Duke.. Trying to remember back in 1969 on the Hong Kong border (building off the Sha Tau Kok road,) when in Starling Inlet our assualt boat's prop hit a rock and the shear pin went.. bit dodgy drifting into Chinese waters, trying to paddle back into Hong Kong waters with a bit of wood...
Oh what fun..
Hey I'm not singing the praises of North Coast Adventures, but seems on here, one hell of a panic over something that never actually happened, OK it appears their hydraulics went - this can happen to any vessel, no matter what size, and it does,. The emergency services sprang into action, so what's the problem?
OK so some of you may live in your armchairs, and think any 'exciting' venture is cause for concern.. but these tourists were consenting adults for heavens sake, so please no more hand wringing...
Hey I'm not singing the praises of North Coast Adventures, but seems on here, one hell of a panic over something that never actually happened, OK it appears their hydraulics went - this can happen to any vessel, no matter what size, and it does,. The emergency services sprang into action, so what's the problem?
OK so some of you may live in your armchairs, and think any 'exciting' venture is cause for concern.. but these tourists were consenting adults for heavens sake, so please no more hand wringing...
Tragedy averted by paying customer who took control of the situation! Inflatable one engine, no backup! Wick inflatable of similar type has two engines.
Tragedy averted by paying customer who took control of the situation! Inflatable one engine, no backup! Wick inflatable of similar type has two engines.
You 'singing the praises': "Willie Munro started Caithness Seacoast Sea Tours with his brand new twin engined 10m (33ft) long Rigid Inflatable Boat (RIB) ‘Geo Explorer’.?
Fisherbigin
29-Jul-11, 21:05
Aqua jets,cotterpins,propellors or whatever,the thing is they should NEVER have been in the cave then or now,just leave them places to the selkies and the scorries.
northener
29-Jul-11, 21:16
I decided earlier on to stay out of this thread, unfortunately there are a few points that need straightening out to prevent any 'misunderstandings'.
There are a few people on here who know who I am and who now that I have crewed and helmed on North Coast Explorer for a couple of seasons in the past.
Here's some background info for you all:
When fare paying passengers are onboard, the vessel must be skippered by a person who holds a valid Commercial Skippers (24meters) ticket which requires as a minimum the following criteria must be met:
The RYA advanced powerboat award commercially endorsed allows you to skipper a vessel up to 24-meters in length used for commercial purposes. The distance you can operate from your port will be dependant upon your experience and the boat’s MCA code.
Qualifications
RYA Day Skipper Theory
RYA Radar
RYA Sea Survival
RYA First Aid
VHF Short Range Radio
RYA Advanced Powerboat (with Commercial Endorsement)
In order to book onto this course you must meet the qualifying experience requirements laid out below.
Qualifying ExperienceYou need to provide evidence of experience; either your boat’s log or record of experience is acceptable.
The minimum Seatime required prior to Exam is; 2 years relevant experience including night pilotage. As a guide this equates to; 30 days with 2 days as skipper, 800 miles and 12 night hours.
If you hold the RYA Advanced Powerboat Course Completion Certificate the sea time is reduced to; 20 days, 2 days as skipper, 400 miles and 12 night hours.
Plus previous experience must be relevant and logged. The exam is no pushover, if you have not got the experience, you won't pass.
Regarding the RIB itself, it is approved by the MCA and has to meet their requirements to operate as a passenger carrying vessel. As such, she must be equipped with relevant survival equipment, liferaft and navigational and communication devices that are servicable and be maintained to an acceptable standard - with servicing schedule being logged at all times.
There have been some comments regarding the ripping of the tubes and 'sinking', it won't sink unless all the compartments are damaged and the hull is compromised.
There is enough bouyancy in the hull to enable it to float without the collar sections inflated. And even if one section develops a serious rip - it does not effect the others, from memory NCE had six seperate collar compartments. If you ever look at a RIB when it is afloat, you'll notice that the inflatable collar hardly touches the water when upright. It only comes into play in rough weather or when heeling at speed - this is what makes them such versatile craft.
Onto the comments regarding the operators standard of servicing:
Every morning, without fail, the RIB was given a thorough visual inspection from one end to the other. All electrics and electronics are checked over. The integrity of the hull is checked and the collars are checked for loss of pressure. The bilge is checked for liquid. Batteries are checked over, oil level and coolant levels checked. A thorough visual inspection of the engine, turbo and gearbox is carried out for leaks, loose joints, bolts and pipes. The water capture fuel filters are drained.
The RIB is driven by a Hamilton water jet unit. It has no propellor as such, it has an intake under the hull which draws in water via an impellor - this is then directed as a high power jet by a moveable nozzle at the rear - this steers the boat and has a moveable baffle plate which 'reverses' the thrust to give power astern. The inspection cover is taken off every day and the intake and impellor checked for obstructions and potential damage. The jet unit is controlled by hydraulics (similar to a cars steering) - the hydraulic resevoir is checked and even the slightest drop in hydraulic fluid is investigated, all hydraulic pipes are inspected and the slightest trace of fluid loss is treated very seriously.
The engine is then started and checked for unusual noises and correct operation of all controls.
All servicing (which is carried out at the correct intervals) and replacement parts are logged.
Onto how the RIB is handled:
I've been into the Gloup on many occasions and, the same as anyone else on the helm, there have been many times where we have NOT gone in as we believed it was unsafe - the impression I get is that some on here are of the opinion that passenger safety was treated in some sort of gung-ho fashion. Not so. There have been many occasions where we have changed the trips itinery because of unfavourable conditions. We have missed out the West side in it's entirety and the East side in its entirety because we believed the conditions were not suitable for the passengers. Responsible skippering.
As far as the incident itself, I was not there. But I arrived in Groats as the Lifeboat was returning to Thurso. The Groat states that a passenger 'took charge' and allegedly made the decision to disembark. Whilst the gentleman in question may have decided that is what should happen, I would like to point out that the crew made the decision to disembark the passengers as soon as they realised that the situation was untenable. The decision to abandon the craft rested with the crew - who did exactly that.
Regarding water coming over the front - this in itself would not cause the RIB to sink - the boat is open ended at the back allowing sea water to drain out without affecting it's bouyancy.
Also the Gloup isn't a 'cave' as such, it's open at the back end, you can walk out onto Stroma with a little care and there are sufficient wide and flat areas well above the waterline for people to remain safely for a long period of time - nitpicking, I know. But lets get a realistic picture of the scene before we go off on one, eh?
I'm not taking sides, passing opinion on what should or should not have happened or trying to shoot anyone down - there's plenty of online experts on here who will form their own opinions regardless of what is placed in front of them and frankly, I cannot be arsed to get bogged down in some ridiculous outrage/point scoring game.
I hope the above gives folks on here an outline of what actually occurs, facts, not just what someone's opinion is.
I'm outta here
Shame on you Northener for introducing facts and figures into another finger-pointing and speculative thread. No doubt someone else will be along soon to add some arms, legs and oars to the story which will deflate your points. I think I'll stick to the mainland. ;)
Vastly too long post
OK so you think they didn't foul up.
My humble opinion is that they did and it was inevitable and if they continue they will kill a boatload of tourists. God knows they tried their best to, this time.
Here's to the future.
Northener......Well explained. I figured the training etc., was more than sufficient as seems the boatie!
OK so you think they didn't foul up.
My humble opinion is that they did and it was inevitable and if they continue they will kill a boatload of tourists. God knows they tried their best to, this time.
Here's to the future.
I hope you're comfy? Warm enough? Nursy will be along to plump your pillow shortly.
rogermellie
30-Jul-11, 02:22
today's article in the Groat didn't even mention the North Coast crew
it sounded like a passenger took command and saved the day, i'm sure this wasn't the case
i've been on the boat before and what impressed me more than their enthusiasm was their rigid approach to safety (much to some of the passengers disappointment)
the article in the paper 'i thought i was going to die' sounds like the start of a claim, i'll be interested to see whether anyone tries to claim on the basis of some sort of negligence, after all, 'where there's blame ....'
an engine failed, as previously mentioned, s**t happens, these Englanders should be grateful that something of distinction happened during their holiday up here
I hope you're comfy? Warm enough? Nursy will be along to plump your pillow shortly.
With greatest of respect to your sense of original wit, I've seen that very statement and many variations on forums all over the Web since around 1998. Why don't you simply state your opinion? Is it because we've all seen it before and it would bore us?
rogermellie
30-Jul-11, 02:31
i've read 'I hope you're comfy? Warm enough? Nursy will be along to plump your pillow shortly.' before, but the picture that came with it took nearly 10 minutes to download in 1998
Northener......Well explained. I figured the training etc., was more than sufficient as seems the boatie!
Yes, well said Northener, you try to paint a picture where it never happened, and it never happened before. It did and it has.
It's easy to write a long post praising the steps taken so the situation doesn't occur but the simple fact is that it did and there appears to have been no backup plan in existence to get out of the situation. That is the most worrying thing. OK no one died but when that happens, is the excuse then, not many died?
It's OK to meet minimum standards required but given the situation the boat is put in every day why not put in a little more thought and resource to the passengers safety, that’s all that some have been saying since the start!
Yes, well said Northener, you try to paint a picture where it never happened, and it never happened before. It did and it has.
It's easy to write a long post praising the steps taken so the situation doesn't occur but the simple fact is that it did and there appears to have been no backup plan in existence to get out of the situation. That is the most worrying thing. OK no one died but when that happens, is the excuse then, not many died?
It's OK to meet minimum standards required but given the situation the boat is put in every day why not put in a little more thought and resource to the passengers safety, that’s all that some have been saying since the start!
I think your comments are quite unfair. N stated what training etc etc., was required.
And in single engined fighter planes.....have they got oars.... methinks criticism for criticism's sake. I am sure th 'authorities' will look into this and perhaps or perhaps not, make reccomendations.
Do you know what, you can all debate fault as much as you want but I for one am proud of all the men that risk their lives on every call out to save people in trouble in our seas, get a grip of perspective this post was started and people were proud of our lifeboat men. I for one am very proud of them, they get the call and they act, you can all pull it to pieces here but these men go out no matter what the thought or occasion and get on with saving people lives and livelihoods.
rogermellie
30-Jul-11, 04:24
no one is disputing the job of the lifeboat, were all very proud of them ... oh wait, i see, it's a name drop :roll:
Walter Ego
30-Jul-11, 07:18
OK so you think they didn't foul up.
My humble opinion is that they did...............
Yes, well said Northener, you try to paint a picture where it never happened, and it never happened before. It did and it has.
It's easy to write a long post praising the steps taken so the situation doesn't occur but the simple fact is that it did and there appears to have been no backup plan in existence to get out of the situation. That is the most worrying thing. OK no one died but when that happens, is the excuse then, not many died?......
Now my powers of observation are a little limited, but I am pretty sure that Northerner stated quite clearly that he was not taking sides in this and was trying to present facts regarding what standards are required on the boat and how the boat has operated during his time there.
I don't see anything there that would suggest Northener is defending or condemning what happened during the incident.
Try taking the blinkers off, boys, and read what was posted. Not what you think was posted.
With greatest of respect to your sense of original wit, I've seen that very statement and many variations on forums all over the Web since around 1998. Why don't you simply state your opinion? Is it because we've all seen it before and it would bore us?
Quite!.......... :D
i've read 'I hope you're comfy? Warm enough? Nursy will be along to plump your pillow shortly.' before, but the picture that came with it took nearly 10 minutes to download in 1998
Blimey! That was from the heart. Just goes to show, internet bores have been getting the same reaction for years.
Ban all single engined vehicles, vessels and watercraft. Ban all non essential trips of any kind, ban sightseeing trips of any kind (including one or multi handed coach driven tours). In fact let's ban enjoyment if ant kind and wrap ourselves up in cotton wool and never leave the house.I shall lobby the MEPs for such an EU directive!
Ban all single engined vehicles, vessels and watercraft. Ban all non essential trips of any kind, ban sightseeing trips of any kind (including one or multi handed coach driven tours). In fact let's ban enjoyment if ant kind and wrap ourselves up in cotton wool and never leave the house.I shall lobby the MEPs for such an EU directive!
Hear Hear!
I think your comments are quite unfair. N stated what training etc etc., was required.
And in single engined fighter planes.....have they got oars.... methinks criticism for criticism's sake. I am sure th 'authorities' will look into this and perhaps or perhaps not, make reccomendations.
That about sums up the blinkered opinions and level of ignorance on here backing up the fact that there is no back up plan on the RIB. You mention no oars on a fighter plane, if you want oars on that plane I’ll happily swap them for the issued Parachute for you!
No one is saying ban all single engines vehicles they all have different risk levels and to be honest if you think a car is the same case as sailing a boat full of fare paying passengers into a position they are put in a dangerous situation then you never are going to get the point.
I'm not for or against the boat but it is one of the reasons i won't go on it. This situation was discussed when they started and for the sake of saving a few ££s the operators chose not to have an emergency backup on board. And before the cotton wool brigade get started again i do take risks in my life but not blindly go ahead because someone waves a certificate in front of me to show they have passed a test. Reminds me of the Chief Constable of the IOM when Nigel Mansell went there as F1 world champion and in front of the worlds press said "Nigel won't be driving because he hasn't passed his Police Driving Test!"
Now my powers of observation are a little limited, but I am pretty sure that Northerner stated quite clearly that he was not taking sides in this and was trying to present facts regarding what standards are required on the boat and how the boat has operated during his time there.
I don't see anything there that would suggest Northener is defending or condemning what happened during the incident.
Try taking the blinkers off, boys, and read what was posted. Not what you think was posted.
I don't have blinkers on, some on here have them firmly fixed though. As you point out Northerner said "how the boat has operated during his time there" I reckon that the "during his time there" shows where his loyalty lies. Now if he said something other than the party line i might give that some time. Anders Behring Breivik still says he is not mad and we will see he was acting in our best interests, I don't believe that either.
You might be one of the group that wants oars in your fighter plane but I’ll weigh up the options using a little common sense and logic before choosing a Parachute!
I don't have blinkers on, some on here have them firmly fixed though. As you point out Northerner said "how the boat has operated during his time there" I reckon that the "during his time there" shows where his loyalty lies. Now if he said something other than the party line i might give that some time. Anders Behring Breivik still says he is not mad and we will see he was acting in our best interests, I don't believe that either.
You might be one of the group that wants oars in your fighter plane but I’ll weigh up the options using a little common sense and logic before choosing a Parachute!
What ARE you talking about?
Oh yea, so what's the back-up plan for when you fly (presume you don't?) 'cos they don't have parachutes on them big planes you know, it's kiss yer bum goodbye...
Walter Ego
30-Jul-11, 16:48
I don't have blinkers on, some on here have them firmly fixed though. As you point out Northerner said "how the boat has operated during his time there" I reckon that the "during his time there" shows where his loyalty lies. Now if he said something other than the party line i might give that some time. Anders Behring Breivik still says he is not mad and we will see he was acting in our best interests, I don't believe that either.
You might be one of the group that wants oars in your fighter plane but I’ll weigh up the options using a little common sense and logic before choosing a Parachute!
Oh, definitely blinkered.
Northerner stated quite clearly that he was not passing comment on the incident or the rights or wrongs. I read it as answering the queries that were already made regarding the boats maintenance and what was required to skipper it. I'd say that it was a balanced response to queries on here without showing some 'loyalty', attempting to justify the boat crews actions or other such notion as you would have us believe.
But it would appear that you wish to read more into it to suit your own argument. Fine, bang away. Makes no difference to me.
But given your obvious inability to read a pretty straightforward post - I don't think anyone will be taking you too seriously, eh?[lol]
Oh, definitely blinkered.
Northerner stated quite clearly that he was not passing comment on the incident or the rights or wrongs. I read it as answering the queries that were already made regarding the boats maintenance and what was required to skipper it. I'd say that it was a balanced response to queries on here without showing some 'loyalty', attempting to justify the boat crews actions or other such notion as you would have us believe.
But it would appear that you wish to read more into it to suit your own argument. Fine, bang away. Makes no difference to me.
But given your obvious inability to read a pretty straightforward post - I don't think anyone will be taking you too seriously, eh?[lol]
I read what Northerner said and read it with an open mind. I understood the checks and procedures that are done on a regular basis to the boat and its nothing more than I'd expect (thats not a negative but using my engineering knowledge) I also read and understood the Paperwork and Licence side. Obviously meeting all the minimum requirements otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to do what they are doing.
He also went on to express his opinion and in the whole post there is not one single hint of a negative comment, in your opinion that is balanced?
He does go on to make light of the incident giving his own opinion that it wasn't really a "cave" and there was no danger as all involved could walk along ledges and find themselves on dry land on Stroma. Problem solved and it sounds so simple!
Well, in his opinion all was simple. In mine knowing the Gloup, quite how they were all going to climb up from the bottom of the i'm not sure. Perhaps rather than waiting for someone else to tell you, can you explain how they are going to get back to Groats from there?
You can carry on with the name calling and put me down because i don't express the same view as yourself, thats fine. But at least try to open your mind a little.
The simple fact is that people have asked for years, what if the boat looses its power? The operators answer has always been it is a safe boat, yet on more than one occasion when it has happened and a small inexpensive emergency outboard would have taken them out of trouble they still won't entertain taking that option. If you are happy that instead of them spending that small amount and have to rely on the emergency services, thats up to you but i believe they should be more responsible.
Feel free to laugh away, I don't see peoples lives as a laughing matter but you obviously do.
Fisherbigin
30-Jul-11, 18:05
I decided earlier on to stay out of this thread, unfortunately there are a few points that need straightening out to prevent any 'misunderstandings'.
There are a few people on here who know who I am and who now that I have crewed and helmed on North Coast Explorer for a couple of seasons in the past.
Here's some background info for you all:
When fare paying passengers are onboard, the vessel must be skippered by a person who holds a valid Commercial Skippers (24meters) ticket which requires as a minimum the following criteria must be met:
The RYA advanced powerboat award commercially endorsed allows you to skipper a vessel up to 24-meters in length used for commercial purposes. The distance you can operate from your port will be dependant upon your experience and the boat’s MCA code.
Qualifications
RYA Day Skipper Theory
RYA Radar
RYA Sea Survival
RYA First Aid
VHF Short Range Radio
RYA Advanced Powerboat (with Commercial Endorsement)
In order to book onto this course you must meet the qualifying experience requirements laid out below.
Qualifying ExperienceYou need to provide evidence of experience; either your boat’s log or record of experience is acceptable.
The minimum Seatime required prior to Exam is; 2 years relevant experience including night pilotage. As a guide this equates to; 30 days with 2 days as skipper, 800 miles and 12 night hours.
If you hold the RYA Advanced Powerboat Course Completion Certificate the sea time is reduced to; 20 days, 2 days as skipper, 400 miles and 12 night hours.
Plus previous experience must be relevant and logged. The exam is no pushover, if you have not got the experience, you won't pass.
Regarding the RIB itself, it is approved by the MCA and has to meet their requirements to operate as a passenger carrying vessel. As such, she must be equipped with relevant survival equipment, liferaft and navigational and communication devices that are servicable and be maintained to an acceptable standard - with servicing schedule being logged at all times.
There have been some comments regarding the ripping of the tubes and 'sinking', it won't sink unless all the compartments are damaged and the hull is compromised.
There is enough bouyancy in the hull to enable it to float without the collar sections inflated. And even if one section develops a serious rip - it does not effect the others, from memory NCE had six seperate collar compartments. If you ever look at a RIB when it is afloat, you'll notice that the inflatable collar hardly touches the water when upright. It only comes into play in rough weather or when heeling at speed - this is what makes them such versatile craft.
Onto the comments regarding the operators standard of servicing:
Every morning, without fail, the RIB was given a thorough visual inspection from one end to the other. All electrics and electronics are checked over. The integrity of the hull is checked and the collars are checked for loss of pressure. The bilge is checked for liquid. Batteries are checked over, oil level and coolant levels checked. A thorough visual inspection of the engine, turbo and gearbox is carried out for leaks, loose joints, bolts and pipes. The water capture fuel filters are drained.
The RIB is driven by a Hamilton water jet unit. It has no propellor as such, it has an intake under the hull which draws in water via an impellor - this is then directed as a high power jet by a moveable nozzle at the rear - this steers the boat and has a moveable baffle plate which 'reverses' the thrust to give power astern. The inspection cover is taken off every day and the intake and impellor checked for obstructions and potential damage. The jet unit is controlled by hydraulics (similar to a cars steering) - the hydraulic resevoir is checked and even the slightest drop in hydraulic fluid is investigated, all hydraulic pipes are inspected and the slightest trace of fluid loss is treated very seriously.
The engine is then started and checked for unusual noises and correct operation of all controls.
All servicing (which is carried out at the correct intervals) and replacement parts are logged.
Onto how the RIB is handled:
I've been into the Gloup on many occasions and, the same as anyone else on the helm, there have been many times where we have NOT gone in as we believed it was unsafe - the impression I get is that some on here are of the opinion that passenger safety was treated in some sort of gung-ho fashion. Not so. There have been many occasions where we have changed the trips itinery because of unfavourable conditions. We have missed out the West side in it's entirety and the East side in its entirety because we believed the conditions were not suitable for the passengers. Responsible skippering.
As far as the incident itself, I was not there. But I arrived in Groats as the Lifeboat was returning to Thurso. The Groat states that a passenger 'took charge' and allegedly made the decision to disembark. Whilst the gentleman in question may have decided that is what should happen, I would like to point out that the crew made the decision to disembark the passengers as soon as they realised that the situation was untenable. The decision to abandon the craft rested with the crew - who did exactly that.
Regarding water coming over the front - this in itself would not cause the RIB to sink - the boat is open ended at the back allowing sea water to drain out without affecting it's bouyancy.
Also the Gloup isn't a 'cave' as such, it's open at the back end, you can walk out onto Stroma with a little care and there are sufficient wide and flat areas well above the waterline for people to remain safely for a long period of time - nitpicking, I know. But lets get a realistic picture of the scene before we go off on one, eh?
I'm not taking sides, passing opinion on what should or should not have happened or trying to shoot anyone down - there's plenty of online experts on here who will form their own opinions regardless of what is placed in front of them and frankly, I cannot be arsed to get bogged down in some ridiculous outrage/point scoring game.
I hope the above gives folks on here an outline of what actually occurs, facts, not just what someone's opinion is.
I'm outta here
Please go and tell all that p**** to the people which were rescued
Please go and tell all that p**** to the people which were rescued
Wowee....Quite an intelligent comment! Love these so called intelligent people from the wee hoosie that ain't there!
Wowee....Quite an intelligent comment! Love these so called intelligent people from the wee hoosie that ain't there!
Aye, me too sandy. Yours is a cracker too. :lol:
Walter Ego
30-Jul-11, 19:29
Please go and tell all that p**** to the people which were rescued
Looks like another one who can't differentiate between opinion and giving background information.;)
Perhaps you missed this part of Northerners p.....?:
"I'm not taking sides, passing opinion on what should or should not have happened or trying to shoot anyone down - there's plenty of online experts on here who will form their own opinions regardless of what is placed in front of them and frankly, I cannot be arsed to get bogged down in some ridiculous outrage/point scoring game."
I reckon he must have known you were coming.[lol]
Anyway, I havnae got time to sit here playing at internet experts all evening, it's a nice evening out West, so I'm off out on my boat.
Please go and tell all that p**** to the people which were rescued
Go back in yer pram an play wae yer toys.:roll::grin:
You can have all the tickets you want and pass all the exams but if you don't have common sense !!!!
Looks like another one who can't differentiate between opinion and giving background information.;)
I think northerner would admit himself that he's biased towards the business. Its a tricky subject because people with a long term relationship with the sea have said it could be a dangerous venture. Because of the nature of dangerous pastimes people need to know what they are letting themselves in for and health and safety need to have their say. There's no way I would go out on that thing to where they go. I may be stupid sometimes but Im no daft. :lol:
Looks like another one who can't differentiate between opinion and giving background information.;)
Perhaps you missed this part of Northerners p.....?:
"I'm not taking sides, passing opinion on what should or should not have happened or trying to shoot anyone down - there's plenty of online experts on here who will form their own opinions regardless of what is placed in front of them and frankly, I cannot be arsed to get bogged down in some ridiculous outrage/point scoring game."
I reckon he must have known you were coming.[lol]
Anyway, I havnae got time to sit here playing at internet experts all evening, it's a nice evening out West, so I'm off out on my boat.
You finaly got the point, You're "Playing" at being an expert, we got it ages ago that you couldn't grasp facts. Happy sailing, remember to take a parachute! Night
Walter Ego
30-Jul-11, 22:08
You finaly got the point, You're "Playing" at being an expert, we got it ages ago that you couldn't grasp facts. Happy sailing, remember to take a parachute! Night
Whoooosh.
Well, just got back, the fishing was poorer than expected. A few tiddlers of no consequence.;) But a pleasant couple of hours none the less.
Nice to see that you've still not grasped the concept of reading what is in front of you.
Whoooosh.
Well, just got back, the fishing was poorer than expected. A few tiddlers of no consequence.;) But a pleasant couple of hours none the less.
Nice to see that you've still not grasped the concept of reading what is in front of you.
I have addressed the facts, not what your opinion is!
Speaking of facts, can you give the answer to your hero Northern,,whatever's situation, sorry fact, that as there was no danger and they would be on Stroma. How are they going to get from the bottom of the Gloup to Groats? Stick to a reply and show your grasp of the situation, not throwing out meaningless statements please.
When one goes to sea there are dangers....And I/We....the people that go on these adventures, are very well aware of these dangers.
If I decide to sail the Ocean in a 34 foot sailboat, I know that there is a chance that someething will go wrong. And I am sure the people on the Rigid knew there were dangers, but also an element of excitement, otherwise they would have looked at pictures! And I am sure that they were given info on it prior to departure....
I think your slagging of Northener is 'out of bounds'. He told you what was involved....period!
No one on here is an expert unless you are the 'chosen one'. Northener gave an opinion based on facts/ more than most of us know. So please don't 'shoot the messenger'.
When one goes to sea there are dangers....And I/We....the people that go on these adventures, are very well aware of these dangers.
If I decide to sail the Ocean in a 34 foot sailboat, I know that there is a chance that someething will go wrong. And I am sure the people on the Rigid knew there were dangers, but also an element of excitement, otherwise they would have looked at pictures! And I am sure that they were given info on it prior to departure....
I think your slagging of Northener is 'out of bounds'. He told you what was involved....period!
No one on here is an expert unless you are the 'chosen one'. Northener gave an opinion based on facts/ more than most of us know. So please don't 'shoot the messenger'.
Having read all this thread (mostly crop), I have decided I can't wait until next time I go out on the Northcoast Explorer.
That is all we can do, decide what we want. All those that think it is terribly dangerous, don't go. Simples
But please, please stop moaning.:roll:
northener
31-Jul-11, 08:36
I have addressed the facts, not what your opinion is!
Speaking of facts, can you give the answer to your hero Northern,,whatever's situation, sorry fact, that as there was no danger and they would be on Stroma. How are they going to get from the bottom of the Gloup to Groats? Stick to a reply and show your grasp of the situation, not throwing out meaningless statements please.
Ah well. Here we go.
The only reason I am replying after saying I was out of here is because you seem to be determined to undermine my attempt to present information about how the boat operated during my time there and what the legal requirements are to run such a venture.
This was in response to queries regarding the maintenance and qualifications aspects of the boat. And also pointing out that the boat did not go in close to shore regardless of the conditions. As I stated, certainly when I was on board, decisions on the trips itinery were taken very seriously.
I stated quite clearly that I was not taking sides or attempting to point the finger or deflect responsibility. Just presenting facts. Not opinions regarding these aspects.
Regarding the Gloup, I commented that the Groats comment describing the Gloup as a 'cave' were incorrect. I even stated myself that I knew I was 'nitpicking' but I felt it worth pointing out exactly what the geography of the area was. I certainly wasn't attempting carry some sort of crude damage limitation rubbish or suggesting that having to scramble ashore was some sort of trivial matter. A bit of accurate information regarding the area in question will enable people to form a more accurate picture of what was occurring, nothing more.
The only thing that could be described as 'opinion' was my comment regarding the reportage that stated that a passenger 'took control' of the situation and gave the order to land. I said that he may have decided that everyone should be ashore, certainly, but this is not the same as being the decision maker.
If you'd like to discuss this further, Alamo, please feel free to PM me.
Cheers.
And I am sure the people on the Rigid knew there were dangers, but also an element of excitement,
I think your typical modern day tourist or tripper pays his money and assumes everything is safe, ignoring any advice or instructions.
You can have all the tickets you want and pass all the exams but if you don't have common sense !!!!
I wish this penny would drop into the minds of all those who are responsible for this bureaucratic b.s which we are engulfed in today. I am not saying that training and exams are a bad thing - far from it but if you dont have common sense, it's all irrelevant.
I wish this penny would drop into the minds of all those who are responsible for this bureaucratic b.s which we are engulfed in today. I am not saying that training and exams are a bad thing - far from it but if you dont have common sense, it's all irrelevant.
Are you suggesting someone doesn't have common sense?
I think your typical modern day tourist or tripper pays his money and assumes everything is safe, ignoring any advice or instructions.
You are pretty well correct up to the last statement. Did the advice say we only have one engine!? The problem for a tourist, and particularly a foreign one, is knowing what the risks are and sometimes one just has to take the trip at what appears to be face value. I have done it myself abroad but I am much more careful now because there are dangers that operators do not wish us to know, such as we only have one engine! Basic problems in the Pentland Firth if you do not have a backup. Caves can be dangerous, the currents are a challenge at times, the weather can change quickly and so there should be a backup strategy - like having two engines (like the Wick boat).
Everyone does have to make up his or her mind and I have made up my mind I will not be going on it again - yes again. Been there, done it got the T-Shirt and I think there are significant risks.
Are you suggesting someone doesn't have common sense?
Erm....yes :lol:
But it's true though isnt it. Do you remember that fiasco when some Amercian sued McDonalds because he / she eat a hot apple pie and burnt themselves...you can probably rest assured that person really needed to eat that anyway!! Then there was the episode with the person who burnt themselves when drinking coffee. Sadly, this new culture of legal action has really taken a hold and in the lng run, all it does is to do away with common sense.
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