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There was an incident at the harbour tonight at 7 pm were a young man jumped into the harbour. He was pulled out by passers by unconscious.
The police, ambulance, coastguard and lifeboat were called.
The police were there in 4 minutes.
The coastguard immediately after them.
The lifeboat called at the same time.
The ambulance arrived 40 minutes later.
They said that they were on another call and could not be in two places at once.
So this is the NHS/ambulance service answer to injured or sick poeple they are supposed to serve.
Seems that saving money is more important that the public health
changilass
25-Sep-06, 21:57
At the end of the day they can only be in one place at a time, the other services would have basic first aid and if need be could have transported the youth to the hospital.
I hope the youth is ok
caithnessboyagee
25-Sep-06, 22:08
If you ask me he should have never of jumped in the first place seem like he wasting the emergency time who in the right mind would want to jump in the harbour at this time of year .
I think your missing the point, the young man is OK, but what if he had a head injury. The coastguard is only trained in first aid and they did a great job but surely there should be more that one ambulance on call.
caithnessboyagee
25-Sep-06, 22:22
No the time waster should never of jumped in the first place .
Bobinovich
25-Sep-06, 22:25
If this was Thurso harbour then Mrs Bob & myself walked by there around 8pm ish and there was a pack of kids there egging each other on to jump in. One guy was in shorts and t-shirt & no shoes on the harbour side of the barrier. There was a pile of shoes on the quayside and Mrs Bob says there was a car there with an older adult right next to them on a mobile phone.
Are you sure it wasn't one of this bunch who was pulled out? The time wouldn't correspond but the tomfoolery sounds about right.
It would have been Wick as the Thurso lifeboat has not been out this evening.
If they were fooling around, by their actions they tied up 4 different elements of the emergency services which might have been needed elsewhere.....[disgust]
Firstly, I'm pleased the man who jumped into the harbour is ok.
Secondly, who phoned the ambulance and what did they say. The ambulance service works on a priority system, eg a patient suffering a heart attack or stroke would be the first call to be answered. Maybe the ambulance was away on one of these calls. I dont know if the harbour was Wick or Thurso, but I know medical people are on the crew of wick lifeboat.
All police and coastguards are trained in ressucitation and could keep someone alive until ambulance crews arrived.They are also highly trained in first-aid.
If it was Thurso and the ambulance took 40 minutes, then maybe it was taking a patient to hospital in wick.
Maybe the person who phoned the ambulance in the first place didnt give a very clear account or maybe the man in question was ok. Three emergency services responded to the call.
How many ambulances in Caithness are on call at any one time?
mr do dar
25-Sep-06, 22:48
the youths parents should pay the life boat , police and the ambulances services for wasting time . in my eyes when people jump in they should be last on the emergency services list . if there willing to take their own life let them crack on with it . people with genuin illnesses should be delt with first . sorry if this puts anyones back up but this is my opinion .
kwbrown111
25-Sep-06, 22:50
So this is the NHS/ambulance service answer to injured or sick poeple they are supposed to serve.
So saving someones life what is no fault of there own is worth less than some idiot who jumps into the harbour
Noneof you know the reasons for this person jumping or falling into the harbour. A life is a life no matter what the circumstances of the incident are. Emergency services respond to a call to treat the patient thats their job. They dont judge people before they treat them. If you had been passing the harbour at the time and saw the man in the water would you have asked him questions before you did something to help him.
kwbrown111
25-Sep-06, 23:21
Noneof you know the reasons for this person jumping or falling into the harbour. A life is a life no matter what the circumstances of the incident are. Emergency services respond to a call to treat the patient thats their job. They dont judge people before they treat them. If you had been passing the harbour at the time and saw the man in the water would you have asked him questions before you did something to help him.
I'm only saying what has been said on them about him jumping in but from personal experience the possible suicide jumper doesn't really want to do it and if it is just the carry on of jumping into the harbour as is the craze in Thurso just now there is only so much cover the ambulance can do.
the youths parents should pay the life boat , police and the ambulances services for wasting time . in my eyes when people jump in they should be last on the emergency services list . if there willing to take their own life let them crack on with it . people with genuin illnesses should be delt with first . sorry if this puts anyones back up but this is my opinion .
But most people who "jump in the harbour" do have a genuine illness, probably acute depression, soaccording to your post they should be dealt with first. as you said.
The point I am trying to make is it dosent matter whether he jumped in for the fun of it or to harm himself, if someone needs assistance then the services are there to help. The questions are asked later.
kwbrown111
25-Sep-06, 23:36
Fran sorry to disagree but it is the same thing with the majority of people taking overdoses who don't really want to do it or just to take enough to be non life threatening and is a cry for help. i know we could do with more ambulance cover but it isn't really possible
kwbrown111
25-Sep-06, 23:39
I really feel sorry for the ambulance service who seem to be being dumped on like this after all its not there fault and it seems like to me that is the way this topic is heading
what foolish person jumps into the harbour,what a waste of space
I feel that the local ambulance service is clearly under pressure. Anger at slow response times should not be directed at the local crews but to the politicians who have put horrendous staffing and resourse constraints on them all in the name of budgeting. I speak from experience - I lost a close family member from a heart attack, the Thurso ambulance was transporting another patient to Wick, I made it clear on the 999 call what the situation was, there was no alternative available at that time. Whether the prompt arrival of the ambulance would have made any difference - I don't know. What I do know is that no blame could be levelled at the local paramedics.
Glad to see that the local constabularyn were there in double quick time, hope they put the chap into a nice dry cell for his efforts!
Its impossible to have enough ambulance crew for every eventuality. This is the reason that more than one emergency service is called to assist, it is better to have basic first aid skills (although I would have thought other emergency services would know more than basic skills) than none at all. The emergency services did their best in this situation.
How many ambulances in Caithness are on call at any one time?
that is what I would like to know. I do not blame the local ambulance men but I do blame the management. The ambulance service up here has to cover such a large area and are often away in Inverness.
Naefearjustbeer
26-Sep-06, 10:11
If you ask me he should have never of jumped in the first place seem like he wasting the emergency time who in the right mind would want to jump in the harbour at this time of year .
If i were to pick a time of year to jump in the sea it would be now. The sea is warmer now than it is at the height of summer. In fact I was swimming in it on sunday afternoon up at Bettyhill.
There are more reasons than being depressed for jumping in the water.
A lot of you appear to be of the "Waste of space attitude" Nobody knows the full story did he jump to try and end it all, did he jump in for a swim and bang his head was it a kid playing? I dont know but whatever reason it was they deserve rescue and treatment. I hope none of you lot require an ambulance one day only to find that you are the subject of idle minded gossip and folk wishing that the ambulance doesnt come at all.
I hope none of you lot require an ambulance one day only to find that you are the subject of idle minded gossip and folk wishing that the ambulance doesnt come at all.
And the reverse applies - I hope you never need one only to find out it was on a call to someone in trouble through their own stupidity.
idle minded gossip
While the truth of this incident may never be known (the lad in question is hardly likely to sign up here to explain himself) I wonder why folk have the need to post the latest 'incident' on the forums?
Norfrost on fire? Lifeboat out at sea? Man fallen down cliff? Ambulance passed me? Car parked on Bridge Street gets ticket? Argument in Supermarket?
Is life in Caithness so boring that Orgers have to resort to posting the latest events on here like some form of news tickertape? Or are they the human incarnation of "Newsbot"...
Invariably if the incident is 'juicy' enough all it does is get people divided into two camps - "he fell" or "he jumped". Why not wait until it is in the "Groat" or P&J (if it is that serious) to find out the FACTS, rather than 'reading about all it ' in "The Herring Barrel".......
See again the thorny nuts and bolts issue of who makes the decision crops up.
Who decides that a guy jumping into the harbour is less worth an ambulance than someone else? At least however he had got there the laddie was in need of emergency medical attention - he hadnt a stubbed toe or wasnt needing a hug.
While the truth of this incident may never be known (the lad in question is hardly likely to sign up here to explain himself) I wonder why folk have the need to post the latest 'incident' on the forums?
I have to agree with you here MadPict - I would hate to read about something happening on here then discover it was someone close to me.
Yes, I posted on this thread, but I commented on the ambulance service rather than any incident.
Peoples feelings need to be considered. One day you may pass comment on your nearest or dearest having an accident without knowing about it. I know how I'd feel if this was the first place I'd heard of a family or friend being hurt/hospitalised.
at the beginning of this year I myself had the need for an ambulance due to our fire leaking carbon monoxide 2 of my children were unconscious after ringing my local surgery I was told to take them to hospital myself as the ambulance would take to long! Once at the hospital we had to wait 3 hours for an ambulance to take us to inverness.
Yes, I posted on this thread, but I commented on the ambulance service rather than any incident.
Not singling you out henry20 - I am as guilty as you in that respect, making the point about tying up all the emergency services in the area because of one persons (possibly foolhardy) actions.
What I am referring to is the urge to share the latest bit of gossip on the forums. And I'm not pointing a finger at anyone here or saying one persons contributions are worth less than anothers, but I cannot understand the urge to rush to the computer everytime a police car or ambulance rushes by or a helicopter is seen overhead and post a message about it.
Is it the 21st century version of the fire engine chasers who used to follow the engine/s around town/out of town everytime their was a 'shout'? Or does this still happen?
I mean do you want to know that the bin men came up the road today and took away my garden waste? That the postie hasn't left me any mail?
I'm sure I will attract some defensive posts from my question but I just would like to know why people feel the need to act as unofficial Org Journos...
Hibeechick
26-Sep-06, 13:10
I was involved in an accident a couple of months ago. An ambulance was required. It took 40 minutes to arrive ( in wick ) as it had been called to a hoak call in Dunnet.
Im not having a go here at the hoak calls ( altho who ever called for it should have had their fingers wrapped ). It sickens me to think, that on a Friday night, there was one ambulance on call to deal with the Wick side and the Thurso side of the county. I know thats true as the police woman explained to me the day after why it had taken so long for an ambulance to attend. Its a digrace really. What if there had been two major incidents?
And yes it was an emergancy as there was a head injury involved.
Not singling you out henry20 .
I didn't feel you were MadPict, but thanks for clarifying the matter.
Essentially, we are in agreement on the topic though.
The family/friends/neighbours should be thought of before posting a thread on here asking what has happened. I usually avoid joining these threads as I don't agree with them, but as I felt the initial thread was about the ambulance service rather than any incident, I didn't feel it wrong to make my comment.
I do, however, feel that the thread could have been started as a general subject rather than pointing out 1 particular incident.
Slightly away from the thread, but still involving the medical practice/ambulance service, I always used to grumble when I had to wait ages to see my doctor (my appointment at 9, still waiting at 9:30) until one day I saw a young child being stretchered into an ambulance. It made me realise just how lucky I was that I was healthy enough to wait!! :D
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/5382044.stm
An article on Scottish Ambulance response times on todays news site.
I wonder what the ratio of Ambulances to population is used in the far north. Down here in the balmy south we not only have a good cover but we also have community 'first responders' in more isolated areas and also MAGPAS, a emergency doctor response service.
Maybe if Caithness (and Sutherland for that) only has one Ambulance on call to cover the whole county it might be time for the Health Authority to wake up to this 'shortfall' in emergency cover?
I see from checking the SAS site (that's the Who Cares Wins not Who Dares Wins one...) that they do have Community First Responders - http://www.scottishambulance.com/firstrespond.asp - so, are there any in Caithness? If not, why not?
From the contacts listing I note there is someone for the N & W -
What is a Community First Responder?
A Community First Responder is a local volunteer who agrees to undertake training in order to be able to provide life saving treatment to those people within the community who are critically injured or ill in the first few minutes prior to the arrival of an ambulance.
Why do we need Community First Responders?
We know that in many medical emergencies and after accidents, people can die within the first few minutes. We also know that if certain simple but critical interventions can be performed within those first few minutes that life can be saved and disability reduced. This is especially the case for heart attacks, choking and injuries that have caused someone to lose consciousness.
Even the best ambulance service in the world cannot get to every 999 call within the first few minutes. In fact the Scottish Ambulance Service gets to most calls very quickly. But occasionally it may not be quick enough - especially in countryside areas or large commercial complexes. There is a period of time between the 999 call being made and the ambulance arriving which little or no emergency care takes place. This time period has been called the 'therapeutic vacuum'. We know that community based first responders can fill this vacuum and provide essential simple treatment in those crucial first few minutes.
In recent years, advances in technology have been made, and many interventions which were previously performed only by highly trained individuals are now available to people with much less training. These include small, easy to operate 'external defibrillators' (AEDs) and lightweight oxygen delivery systems.
The Scottish Ambulance Service believes that with the right training, equipment and support, Community First Responders in Scotland can work alongside the Service and provide the best pre-hospital care that is possible. There are already some schemes working successfully in different parts of the country.
Interested in getting involved?
If you would like more information about becoming a first responder, please contact:
Andy Fuller (afuller@scotamb.co.uk) - North & West Division
Alness
Aviemore
Drumnadrochit
Muir of Ord/Dingwall
Black Isle
Golspie
Tain/Nigg
Thurso
Kyle of Lochalsh
Fortwilliam
Kinlochleven
Nairn
Newtonmore
Anyone up for doing something to help? If I was living up there I certainly would.
I agree with moby. Everyone is quick to speculate on incidents and a lot of people quick to apportion blame. All emergency services do a great job and could do a better job if the government would let them, so instead of getting onto the services, who work amazingly in some stressful situations and get underpaid for the privilege, doing something about it. It was campaigning that saved Thrumster nursery and Wick maternity unit. Emergency workers need your support, not your judgement.
Our ambulance service up here is the largest division in the service, North and West division covers the highlands and western isles of scotland, equivelant in size to Belgium - 12,500 square miles. they have a vast area to cover, but there is also the air ambulance based in Inverness, which you will often see up in Caithness.
NHS24 can send a doctor out of hours, if an ambulance is called out it can be redirected to a more serious call, and yes there are first responders in Caithness trained to use defibrilators which they have. Some doctors in villages will also respond to an emergency and they also have defibrilators etc as well.
I would like to add that the man in the water, was not local, but a contractor from central scotland.
If an ambulance is not available to take a patient to Inverness then an ambulance car will be used.
Fran,
The sheer size of the area that is covered makes having a larger on call presence even more important IMO - if a crew is on the way to a call on the other side of the county and another call comes in then someone has to decide which is more important if there is only one ambulance available.
Air ambulances are restricted to operating in certain circumstances - bad weather and night flying may be a factor. So while having one in the region may be reassuring it is not going to be available 24/7 is it? Helicopters break down as well, and it's not like they have a fleet of them they can pick a replacement from the garage....
If you ask me he should have never of jumped in the first place seem like he wasting the emergency time who in the right mind would want to jump in the harbour at this time of year .
You dont know if the man fell in, slipped in or jumped in.
connieb19
27-Sep-06, 00:31
You dont know if the man fell in, slipped in or jumped in.
The first post on here says that the man jumped in.
Madpict.....if the ambulance helicopter, which flies here at night, were to break down, then a rescue plane would be sent from Lossiemouth.They can often be seen at wick airport airlifting a patient.
There are times when the Air Ambulance is not available either due to being engaged elsewhere or due to weather conditions. There are many types of illness and injury where an Ambulance Car would not be of the slightest use. The Air Ambulance is fine, but would it be here in time for a patient who is in need immediate, life-saving treatment?
There is no substitute for sufficient Emergency Ambulance cover, all the rest is simply mouthing platitudes to keep the plebs happy.
I can spot the, "Oh, tell them something to keep them happy" syndrome a mile away, in fact, I used to be quite expert at it myself at one time.
The Ambulance Service locally is under-staffed and inadequately equipped. To put it bluntly the powers that be couldn't care less provided they can keep the bean-counters happy.
They rely on the fact that, with good luck, nothing might go wrong and if it does they will be able to dump the blame on some poor sap further down the line who will get it in the neck.
They are relying on the fact that the staff locally are so dedicated that they will push themselves to the limit and far beyond to keep things going.
It would be interesting to know just how many times this area is left with either inadequate, or even no Emergency Ambulance cover because of the lack of sufficient staff or equipment or both.
When I am lying there with my pelvis and both my legs crushed under the back wheels of a lorry a five minute Ambulance trip from Caithness General I'm sure it will be most reassuring to know that the only Emergency Ambulance is somewhere on it's way back from Inverness, the Air Ambulance might be able to get here eventually but if necessary I can always be dragged across the rear seat of the Ambulance Car.
Of course, I can always be comforted that the well trained First Aiders of the other Emergency Services will be able to deal with my severe internal bleeding and my agonising pain. That is with no disrespect to them but I suspect even they would admit that some things are beyond the scope of even the best trained First Aiders.
The Ambulance Service locally is under-staffed, insufficiently equipped and over-stretched and promises that “It will be alright on the night” is simply mouthing platitudes and being totally unfair to the people who have to try to make it work whatever the cost to themselves.
When somebody dies unnecessarily as a result of the way things are organised it will be the local staff that faces the music and has to defend themselves and not the “paper-pushers” in their nice comfortable offices whose only worry is how to survive the odd life threatening paper-cut.
Dreadnought
27-Sep-06, 08:37
the youths parents should pay the life boat , police and the ambulances services for wasting time . in my eyes when people jump in they should be last on the emergency services list . if there willing to take their own life let them crack on with it . people with genuin illnesses should be delt with first . sorry if this puts anyones back up but this is my opinion .
I have to agree.
In the past the ambulance highlighted various issues of working hours, and on call hours in the John O' Groat Journal, These people were working well over the working time directive, surviving on little sleep and still managed to provide a high standard of care and be professional. I did not see much support for them from the community then.
At the end of the day it is not the crew who decide where they are going it will be their headquarters. Yes I agree we all want an ambulance to be available when we need one but staffing is a management issue and should be highlighted with them, not the ambulance crew.
If pen were put to paper and people made their views / concerns known maybe in the long term staffing / availability would change for the better.
connieb19
27-Sep-06, 08:44
I have to agree.
the youth was 33 years old!!
The local ambulance crews do a good job with the resources available to them. Our local stations are not crewed 24hrs, therefor when we need them outwith their normal duty hours, they have often already done a full days shift.
They are not governed by working time regulations, so it is up to them to tell their control when they are too tired due to excess duty to continue work.
Often when a local ambulance is out on a job in the middle of the night and a second one is needed in the same area, this is provided from a nieghbouring area.
It comes down to their managers providing a service within budget, not always a good idea for a public service.
Dreadnought
27-Sep-06, 09:18
the youth was 33 years old!!
In that case then, the 33 yr old 'should pay the life boat , police and the ambulances services for wasting time'.
connieb19
27-Sep-06, 09:30
In that case then, the 33 yr old 'should pay the life boat , police and the ambulances services for wasting time'.I have to agree.
Is this air ambulance used only for transporting patients from one hospital to another? This is the impression I am getting or does the chopper respond to actual emergency calls? I guess if it is based in Inverness it is not going to get to a patient within the golden hour - so a quick transport method for seriously ill patients is one thing, an alternative to emergency ambulance is another.
I am not knocking the ambulance service BTW - I am just curious as to the actual cover in Caithness these days....
Some legitimate comments have been made about the service in the area but the comments made about the guy in the harbour are appalling. None of us here know what happened. We dont know if he fell or jumped, we dont know if he was larking about or is mentally ill and needing help, we dont know if it was an accident or deliberate.
How is it wasting time? If the guy was unconscious then he didnt need the emergency services simply to fish him out - he was unconcsious, if he wasnt unconscious but was still unable to get out then he needed the emergency services to get out of the harbour. How hard is that to understand?
This wasnt a hoax call - it wasnt someone calling the emergency services because he couldnt get the lid off a jar or because they had lost their cat or "wanted a hug" which happened to one ambulance crew. It was a genuine emergency.
If we arent going to help a man who ends up in a harbour - however he got there - then we arent going to help a boy who falls out of a tree because after all he climbed up there. We wont help someone who falls from a hill path - because after all they might have jumped.
Those of you that are pontificating about waste of resource and money and charging people should keep your fingers crossed you never do something either stupid, desperate or accidental that leads you to need emergency services. There for the grace of god and all that
Some legitimate comments have been made about the service in the area but the comments made about the guy in the harbour are appalling. None of us here know what happened. We dont know if he fell or jumped, we dont know if he was larking about or is mentally ill and needing help, we dont know if it was an accident or deliberate.
How is it wasting time? If the guy was unconscious then he didnt need the emergency services simply to fish him out - he was unconcsious, if he wasnt unconscious and unable to get out then he needed the emergency services to get out of the harbour. How hard is that to understand?
This wasnt a hoax call - it wasnt someone calling the emergency services because he couldnt get the lid off a jar or because they had lost their cat or "wanted a hug" which happened to one ambulance crew. It was a genuine emergency.
If we arent going to help a man who ends up in a harbour - however he got there - then we arent going to help a boy who falls out of a tree because after all he climbed up there. We wont help someone who falls from a hill path - because after all they might have jumped.
Those of you that are pontificating about waste of resource and money and charging people should keep your fingers crossed you never do something either stupid, desperate or accidental that leads you to need emergency services. There for the grace of god and all that
I'll second that Squidge. Well said!! :D
connieb19
27-Sep-06, 10:40
I suppose the person who jumped in could always say he didn't want the Emergency Services called and to send the bill to the person who dialled 999.
He was unconscious apparently - he wouldnt have been able to say anything so maybe you would have liked to decide that he didnt warrant a waste of resource and left him in the harbour to his fate.
Is this air ambulance used only for transporting patients from one hospital to another? This is the impression I am getting or does the chopper respond to actual emergency calls? I guess if it is based in Inverness it is not going to get to a patient within the golden hour - so a quick transport method for seriously ill patients is one thing, an alternative to emergency ambulance is another.
I am not knocking the ambulance service BTW - I am just curious as to the actual cover in Caithness these days....
The air ambulance normally responds to emergency calls to augment the road ambulance when requested. When the casualty is stabilised, they are transported to hospital by air ambulance, which is crewed by ambulance staff. Flight times are quite good, about 45mins or so. Takes a wee while to get here, but can have a seriously ill person in Raigmore a lot quicker.
I suppose the person who jumped in could always say he didn't want the Emergency Services called and to send the bill to the person who dialled 999.
I'm assuming that this comment is a case of 'I guess there may be some grey areas' (its difficult to know the tone of whats written)
It is fair to say, that it is a legitimate argument though!
If someone fainted another person panicked and called an ambulance, by the time the ambulance arrived the person was alright and was handed a bill for the inconvenience - who really should pay??
As with the other thread 'terror in wick general' ......... Where do you draw the line??
connieb19
27-Sep-06, 10:56
He was unconscious apparently - he wouldnt have been able to say anything so maybe you would have liked to decide that he didnt warrant a waste of resource and left him in the harbour to his fate.
Don't try to put words into my mouth. I'm meaning if people who try to commit suicide were charged for wasting time, what's to stop them refusing to pay the bill and saying to send it to the person who dials 999.
Originally, i was thinking, yes bil him for the Emergency services but obviously that was rather harsh. Ive seen reason. Is that ok?????
Don't try to put words into my mouth. I'm meaning if people who try to commit suicide were charged for wasting time, what's to stop them refusing to pay the bill and saying to send it to the person who dials 999.
Originally, i was thinking, yes bil him for the Emergency services but obviously that was rather harsh. Ive seen reason. Is that ok?????
Yes connie
It's fine - sorry!
Victor Vendetta
27-Sep-06, 12:40
"No the time waster should never of jumped in the first place ."
I think 40 minutes is pretty good considering the geography of Caithness combined with the number ambulances we have.
If people didn't waste the emergency services time they would get to genuine events even faster.
I know the young lad may have had problems but hey, phone a friend.
but hey, phone a friend.
Not everyone has a friend they can turn to in their moment of need.
Depression can be a terrible thing and compassion is required - but not always accepted as such.
With a 'get over it' attitude from some people, is it any wonder that people don't know where to turn? :roll:
Is this air ambulance used only for transporting patients from one hospital to another? This is the impression I am getting or does the chopper respond to actual emergency calls? I guess if it is based in Inverness it is not going to get to a patient within the golden hour - so a quick transport method for seriously ill patients is one thing, an alternative to emergency ambulance is another.
I am not knocking the ambulance service BTW - I am just curious as to the actual cover in Caithness these days....
The Air ambulance responds to accidents as well as transferring urgent patients to Inverness, aberdeen, Glasgow. It can reach caithness in 18 minutes. it also transfers new babies if necesary to Inverness or a baby unit elsewhere.It can transfer seriously ill patients, even fishermen, and it can land on roads if necessary.
My, my, aren't some of us quick to pass moral judgement on others.
I do so hope all those who are so quick to judge who is worthy of assistance and who is not are never in the same position themselves.
Should any of you ever find yourself in an unfortunate position whereby others might deem you are unworthy of assistance do please let us know so the rest of us can gloat about our "Moral Superiority" also.
And when you are in need of help then don’t complain if everybody turns their backs or passes by on the other side of the road because, as far as I am concerned, you would deserve no better.
Personally, I would have no moral qualms about doing exactly that. [mad]
Dreadnought
28-Sep-06, 07:37
'And when you are in need of help then don’t complain if everybody turns their backs or passes by on the other side of the road because, as far as I am concerned, you would deserve no better.
Personally, I would have no moral qualms about doing exactly that'
Wouldn't that then put you in the same boat as those of us who think those, who, through their own stupidity, waste police, ambulance and coastguard time, should be charged for that time?
I'm not talking about the father and son who take out a dinghy and get into trouble, or the swimmer who gets out of their depth. I'm talking about the idiot who jumps into the sea for a dare, or climbs on the outside of a bridge wall for a laugh and falls, or who plays 'chicken' on the railway etc.
The Air ambulance responds to accidents as well as transferring urgent patients to Inverness, aberdeen, Glasgow. It can reach caithness in 8 minutes. it also transfers new babies if necesary to Inverness or a baby unit elsewhere.It can transfer seriously ill patients, even fishermen, and it can land on roads if necessary.
8 minutes to reach Caithness?
I see that the SAS use the Eurocopter EC135 which has a maximum speed: 259 km/h (162 mph) - so from Inverness to Caithness in 8 minutes? It's about 90 miles as the crow flies from Inverness to J'O'G - so working it out roughly thats a flight time of 30 - 45 minutes?
Also, the 2 King Air 200C fixed wing aircraft operate from Aberdeen and Glasgow which adds more time to the journey - although direct from Aberdeen to Wick is again about 90 miles so a flight time of ±20 mins?
(Performance for the B200 is Maximum speed: 333 mph (289 knots, 499 km/h) at 15,000 ft (4,600 m))
Or are my calculations completely wrong?
'And when you are in need of help then don’t complain if everybody turns their backs or passes by on the other side of the road because, as far as I am concerned, you would deserve no better.
Personally, I would have no moral qualms about doing exactly that'
Wouldn't that then put you in the same boat as those of us who think those, who, through their own stupidity, waste police, ambulance and coastguard time, should be charged for that time?
I'm not talking about the father and son who take out a dinghy and get into trouble, or the swimmer who gets out of their depth. I'm talking about the idiot who jumps into the sea for a dare, or climbs on the outside of a bridge wall for a laugh and falls, or who plays 'chicken' on the railway etc.Nope! Even the stupid are entitled to help, the only ones I would leave to their fate are those who think they are not. The person who has never made a mistake or done something stupid has not yet been born.
Being an idiot does not exclude people from being entitled to the same help as anybody else.
However, the Tut-Tutters and the Finger-waggers deserve everything they get, and the more painful the better. They are too busy passing Moral Judgment on others to need any help from me. Who am I to interfere, I might fall short of their idea of perfection and I would find that too distressing to contemplate!
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